degen
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Post by degen on Aug 24, 2020 8:32:11 GMT -5
There’s some obvious bitterness going around the board. It’s usually like this when a big hip hop song is overshadowing a ‘big’ pop era (in this case Taylor, Gaga). So just get used to it and let the numbers speak itself. What hip hop song is overshadowing Lady GaGa and Taylor? The way I was reading the source of contention was between BTS and WAP? lol Is BTS not pop? |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Aug 24, 2020 8:33:24 GMT -5
What hip hop song is overshadowing Lady GaGa and Taylor? The way I was reading the source of contention was between BTS and WAP? lol Is BTS not pop? Uh, yes, but you specifically said "in this case" Gaga/Taylor? |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Aug 24, 2020 8:35:41 GMT -5
I thought it's obvious that WAP is and will be the most popular song in the US and UK by far this week before I saw some of the replies here... There’s some obvious bitterness going around the board. It’s usually like this when a big hip hop song is overshadowing a ‘big’ pop era (in this case Taylor, Gaga). So just get used to it and let the numbers do the talking. I'm confused. When has a "big hip hop song" ever overshadowed a "big pop era"? |
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degen
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Post by degen on Aug 24, 2020 8:46:23 GMT -5
There’s some obvious bitterness going around the board. It’s usually like this when a big hip hop song is overshadowing a ‘big’ pop era (in this case Taylor, Gaga). So just get used to it and let the numbers do the talking. I'm confused. When has a "big hip hop song" ever overshadowed a "big pop era"? WAP overshadowing Cardigan Rockstar overshadowing Rain On Me The Box overshadowing Don’t Start Now I mean, welcome to 2020? Posters constantly complaining about the lack of taste in the U.S./blaming radio when it happens. Like, what even was that question? |
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gabe
3x Platinum Member
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Post by gabe on Aug 24, 2020 8:50:22 GMT -5
The new members with 87 posts are getting real bold in this thread
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Aug 24, 2020 8:52:49 GMT -5
Folklore will likely end up the best-selling album of the year if we are considering units actually sold, lol, which is amazing after a month. Won't ever be a fan of a stream being considered a "sale" for album or song, regardless of the times. lol Like "WAP" and other songs "selling" 500k in week 1. Lawd. Will always be much harder to aquire a purchase than a free stream. Well about that . . . | 2000 |
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| 2018 |
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| | N Sync | No Strings Attached | 9,900,000 |
| Drake | SCORPION | 3,905,000 | | Eminem | The Marshall Mathers LP | 7,900,000 |
| Post Malone | BEERBONGS & BENTLEYS | 3,251,000 | | Britney Spears | Oops!...I Did It Again | 7,900,000 |
| Soundtrack | THE GREATEST SHOWMAN | 2,499,000 | | Creed | Human Clay | 6,600,000 |
| Cardi B | INVASION OF PRIVACY | 2,055,000 | | Santana | Supernatural | 5,900,000 |
| Travis Scott | ASTROWORLD | 1,985,000 | | 2001 |
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| 2019 |
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| | Linkin Park | Hybrid Theory | 4,810,000 |
| Post Malone | HOLLYWOOD'S BLEEDING | 3,001,000 | | Shaggy | Hotshot | 4,520,000 |
| Billie Eilish | WHEN WE ALL FALL ASLEEP WHERE DO WE GO? | 2,518,000 | | N Sync | Celebrity | 4,420,000 |
| Taylor Swift | LOVER | 2,191,000 | | Enya | A Day Without Rain | 4,410,000 |
| Ariana Grande | THANK U, NEXT | 2,056,000 | | Staind | Break the Cycle | 4,240,000 |
| Khalid | FREE SPIRIT | 1,587,000 |
Also regarding singles, RIAA literally calls it Digital Singles Award. So yeah, WAP and LNCL both had 500K+ song units last week. Streams and sales are not at 1:1 ratio idk why it is so hard to understand. |
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dremolus - solarpunk
Diamond Member
𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Aug 24, 2020 8:58:15 GMT -5
I'm confused. When has a "big hip hop song" ever overshadowed a "big pop era"? WAP overshadowing Cardigan Rockstar overshadowing Rain On Me The Box overshadowing Don’t Start Now I mean, welcome to 2020? Posters constantly complaining about the lack of taste in the U.S./blaming radio when it happens. Like, what even was that question? Okay I can see an argument for The Box blocking Don't Start Now (even though blocking a song is not the same as overshadowing it) but the Chromatica era was hardly a big pop era, c'mon now. And yeah, on the singles chart WAP is going to do better on than cardigan but folklore is still on track to being the best selling album of 2020. Also it was released around three weeks before WAP dropped so I'd hardly say it was overshadowed. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Aug 24, 2020 8:59:20 GMT -5
Folklore will likely end up the best-selling album of the year if we are considering units actually sold, lol, which is amazing after a month. Won't ever be a fan of a stream being considered a "sale" for album or song, regardless of the times. lol Like "WAP" and other songs "selling" 500k in week 1. Lawd. Will always be much harder to aquire a purchase than a free stream. Well about that . . . | 2000 |
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| 2018 |
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| | N Sync | No Strings Attached | 9,900,000 |
| Drake | SCORPION | 3,905,000 | | Eminem | The Marshall Mathers LP | 7,900,000 |
| Post Malone | BEERBONGS & BENTLEYS | 3,251,000 | | Britney Spears | Oops!...I Did It Again | 7,900,000 |
| Soundtrack | THE GREATEST SHOWMAN | 2,499,000 | | Creed | Human Clay | 6,600,000 |
| Cardi B | INVASION OF PRIVACY | 2,055,000 | | Santana | Supernatural | 5,900,000 |
| Travis Scott | ASTROWORLD | 1,985,000 | | 2001 |
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| 2019 |
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| | Linkin Park | Hybrid Theory | 4,810,000 |
| Post Malone | HOLLYWOOD'S BLEEDING | 3,001,000 | | Shaggy | Hotshot | 4,520,000 |
| Billie Eilish | WHEN WE ALL FALL ASLEEP WHERE DO WE GO? | 2,518,000 | | N Sync | Celebrity | 4,420,000 |
| Taylor Swift | LOVER | 2,191,000 | | Enya | A Day Without Rain | 4,410,000 |
| Ariana Grande | THANK U, NEXT | 2,056,000 | | Staind | Break the Cycle | 4,240,000 |
| Khalid | FREE SPIRIT | 1,587,000 |
Also regarding singles, RIAA literally calls it Digital Singles Award. So yeah, WAP and LNCL both had 500K+ song units last week. Streams and sales are not at 1:1 ratio idk why it is so hard to understand. I stand by what I said and not sure what your point is here. If streaming was around back in the late 90s/2000s, you'd be sure to see numbers twice the size of the sales then. Consumption of music all around back then was sky-high. You weren't able to listen to a song at your disposal unless you bought it or its parent album....or painstakingly waited to record when it was on the radio or its video played. If you could have streamed it on demand, no doubt a lot more people would have did so for free instead of purchasing. |
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 24, 2020 9:03:23 GMT -5
I'm confused. When has a "big hip hop song" ever overshadowed a "big pop era"? WAP overshadowing Cardigan Rockstar overshadowing Rain On Me The Box overshadowing Don’t Start Now I mean, welcome to 2020? Posters constantly complaining about the lack of taste in the U.S./blaming radio when it happens. Like, what even was that question? So... anytime a hiphop song is #1? Even when the pop song you're comparing it to also hits #1? The delusion. I don't think anyone, not even the blindest fan of Taylor Swift on this forum, would say "WAP" is overshadowing "Cardigan". Same with your other examples. Like, what?? Also how is that relevant to the discussion of people trying to invalidate BTS purely because they're k-pop? You don't make sense, sweetie. I love "WAP", it was a leader on my personal chart. "Dynamite" is not my cup of tea. But if it gets the #1, it gets the #1. Stop being xenophobic babies crying about the "validity" of a number-one. If the chart formula bothers you so much, maybe don't waste your time and energy following the Billboard charts? |
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strongerq
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Posts: 1,507
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Post by strongerq on Aug 24, 2020 9:06:32 GMT -5
I stand by what I said and not sure what your point is here. If streaming was around back in the late 90s/2000s, you'd be sure to see numbers twice the size of the sales then. Consumption of music all around back then was sky-high. You said it is easier to get numbers with streaming than sales. I provided you with the best selling albums of random years. Which means you are wrong.
Also you are wrong about the second part aswell. Every year in the 90s has the #1 album at 5M+ (2016-now there hasn't been 4M+). There isn't official data about earlier (because no Nielsen). Also getting 15-20M from streaming would mean 22.5-30 Billion streams of 1 album in a time span of a year in the U.S. only. It is impossible.
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shaz196
Gold Member
Joined: June 2019
Posts: 881
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Post by shaz196 on Aug 24, 2020 9:15:13 GMT -5
Well about that . . . | 2000 |
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| 2018 |
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| | N Sync | No Strings Attached | 9,900,000 |
| Drake | SCORPION | 3,905,000 | | Eminem | The Marshall Mathers LP | 7,900,000 |
| Post Malone | BEERBONGS & BENTLEYS | 3,251,000 | | Britney Spears | Oops!...I Did It Again | 7,900,000 |
| Soundtrack | THE GREATEST SHOWMAN | 2,499,000 | | Creed | Human Clay | 6,600,000 |
| Cardi B | INVASION OF PRIVACY | 2,055,000 | | Santana | Supernatural | 5,900,000 |
| Travis Scott | ASTROWORLD | 1,985,000 | | 2001 |
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| 2019 |
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| | Linkin Park | Hybrid Theory | 4,810,000 |
| Post Malone | HOLLYWOOD'S BLEEDING | 3,001,000 | | Shaggy | Hotshot | 4,520,000 |
| Billie Eilish | WHEN WE ALL FALL ASLEEP WHERE DO WE GO? | 2,518,000 | | N Sync | Celebrity | 4,420,000 |
| Taylor Swift | LOVER | 2,191,000 | | Enya | A Day Without Rain | 4,410,000 |
| Ariana Grande | THANK U, NEXT | 2,056,000 | | Staind | Break the Cycle | 4,240,000 |
| Khalid | FREE SPIRIT | 1,587,000 |
Also regarding singles, RIAA literally calls it Digital Singles Award. So yeah, WAP and LNCL both had 500K+ song units last week. Streams and sales are not at 1:1 ratio idk why it is so hard to understand. I stand by what I said and not sure what your point is here. If streaming was around back in the late 90s/2000s, you'd be sure to see numbers twice the size of the sales then. Consumption of music all around back then was sky-high. You weren't able to listen to a song at your disposal unless you bought it or its parent album....or painstakingly waited to record when it was on the radio or its video played. If you could have streamed it on demand, no doubt a lot more people would have did so for free instead of purchasing. Very ahistorical argument here, far less people had access to the internet in the 90s and early 2000s than they do now. Spotify has been around since 2008 but only started to make enough of an impact to be included in Billboard's formula in the middle of the 2010's. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Posts: 22,012
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Aug 24, 2020 9:17:17 GMT -5
I stand by what I said and not sure what your point is here. If streaming was around back in the late 90s/2000s, you'd be sure to see numbers twice the size of the sales then. Consumption of music all around back then was sky-high. You said it is easier to get numbers with streaming than sales. I provided you with the best selling albums of random years. Which means you are wrong.
Also you are wrong about the second part aswell. Every year in the 90s has the #1 album at 5M+ (2016-now there hasn't been 4M+). There isn't official data about earlier (because no Nielsen). Also getting 15-20M from streaming would mean 22.5-30 Billion streams of 1 album in a time span of a year in the U.S. only. It is impossible.
You took years with arguably the industry's highest peak in terms of commercial sales and then convienently compared it to recent SPS figures to stretch to fit a point. Again, had free streaming been available back then sales numbers likely wouldn't have been as high, but streaming figures would have been astronomical. I will always believe the average person given a choice to purchase a song to listen to it or stream it for free, will go with the free option. It all seems a moot point regardless so I will end it with this post and agree to disagree. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 9:23:14 GMT -5
break my heart for top ten and wap for number one yup
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Post by rosalina4812 on Aug 24, 2020 9:24:26 GMT -5
You said it is easier to get numbers with streaming than sales. I provided you with the best selling albums of random years. Which means you are wrong.
Also you are wrong about the second part aswell. Every year in the 90s has the #1 album at 5M+ (2016-now there hasn't been 4M+). There isn't official data about earlier (because no Nielsen). Also getting 15-20M from streaming would mean 22.5-30 Billion streams of 1 album in a time span of a year in the U.S. only. It is impossible.
You took years with arguably the industry's highest peak in terms of commercial sales and then convienently compared it to recent SPS figures to stretch to fit a point. Again, had free streaming been available back then sales numbers likely wouldn't have been as high, but streaming figures would have been astronomical. I will always believe the average person given a choice to purchase a song to listen to it or stream it for free, will go with the free option. It all seems a moot point regardless so I will end it with this post and agree to disagree. You do realize that Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and other echocambers didn't exist back then right? Most people would watch all these stars on almost every channel on TV. We are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to both these eras. We really don't know what would've happened. |
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strongerq
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Posts: 1,507
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Post by strongerq on Aug 24, 2020 9:24:29 GMT -5
You took years with arguably the industry's highest peak in terms of commercial sales and then convienently compared it to recent SPS figures to stretch to fit a point. Again, had free streaming been available back then sales numbers likely wouldn't have been as high, but streaming figures would have been astronomical. I will always believe the average person given a choice to purchase a song to listen to it or stream it for free, will go with the free option. It all seems a moot point regardless so I will end it with this post and agree to disagree. My point was you can choose any year from the 90s / early 00s and every year will have albums selling more than album SPS in 2016-now. Late 00s it is noticable how album numbers go down because of piracy. I still don't think if streaming was big in 2000 and sales were almost irrelevant (like it is now in 2020) 'NSync would sell 10M SPS.
Agree to disagree.
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shaz196
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Posts: 881
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Post by shaz196 on Aug 24, 2020 9:28:13 GMT -5
52% of Americans had access to the internet in 2000 as opposed to 90% in 2019, even excluding factors like the lack of today's social media platforms which play a major role in music trends, there's is literally no way streaming numbers would have been "astronomical".
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imbondz
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Joined: January 2006
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Post by imbondz on Aug 24, 2020 9:54:25 GMT -5
Who’s the 10% 😆
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Aug 24, 2020 9:55:18 GMT -5
YouTube chart. After 2 days (Fri+Sat):
'Dynamite' has 160M WW & 13.9M from the US. 8.7%
both numbers include UGC
btw day 1 it was 11.4M US views vs 117M Global (9.7%)
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owenlovesmusic
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Post by owenlovesmusic on Aug 24, 2020 9:56:55 GMT -5
The reason for all the BTS hate is that the fan base is absolutely awful
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Mathgeek
Charting
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Posts: 135
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Post by Mathgeek on Aug 24, 2020 10:23:08 GMT -5
The reason for all the BTS hate is that the fan base is absolutely awful What exactly makes the entire fanbase awful? You do know that Kpop stan twitter are not all BTS Army, right? All I’m seeing are fans buying music and streaming. Mostly buying music. What exactly have they done to make this thread had such a meltdown over a single week of the charts? |
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Aug 24, 2020 10:29:06 GMT -5
The reason for all the BTS hate is that the fan base is absolutely awful What exactly makes the entire fanbase awful? You do know that Kpop stan twitter are not all BTS Army, right? All I’m seeing are fans buying music and streaming. Mostly buying music. What exactly have they done to make this thread had such a meltdown over a single week of the charts? But the difference is with other artists who have a huge stan following (Ariana, Nicki, Taylor, etc.), those stans aren't their whole base. I guarantee you could name several people who you know that enjoy Taylor's music but don't purchase 12 copies of her album upon release. I'm really struggling to think of a single person that I know in real life OR I've seen on twitter who is just casually like "I enjoy their music!" or "They have some good songs!" |
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Mathgeek
Charting
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 135
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Post by Mathgeek on Aug 24, 2020 10:42:40 GMT -5
^^^ Taylor literally sold 18 versions of her album and yes, I saw so many fans who bought the max amount that her site allowed.
Stans Of most artists buy multiple versions through bundles And we all know this to be true.
As for BTS, no the whole country may not get “it” or their music but they’ve built a strong enough fan base who not only buys their music but also bought tickets to see them live in sold out stadiums when we could.
Doesn’t that fact make it a bit unfair to say that there are a smaller pool of fans doing this? We’re talking 45-55k crowds for multiple nights.
If they manage to pull off getting a #1 song even for one week, that’s a pretty major accomplishment
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dremolus - solarpunk
Diamond Member
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Aug 24, 2020 10:43:27 GMT -5
What exactly makes the entire fanbase awful? You do know that Kpop stan twitter are not all BTS Army, right? All I’m seeing are fans buying music and streaming. Mostly buying music. What exactly have they done to make this thread had such a meltdown over a single week of the charts? But the difference is with other artists who have a huge stan following (Ariana, Nicki, Taylor, etc.), those stans aren't their whole base. I guarantee you could name several people who you know that enjoy Taylor's music but don't purchase 12 copies of her album upon release. I'm really struggling to think of a single person that I know in real life OR I've seen on twitter who is just casually like "I enjoy their music!" or "They have some good songs!" I mean I have several friends and relatives who stan different k-pop groups - not just BTS - and who don't harass other people and who could care less about chart success |
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Xander
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Posts: 316
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Post by Xander on Aug 24, 2020 10:45:36 GMT -5
YouTube chart. After 2 days (Fri+Sat): 'Dynamite' has 160M WW & 13.9M from the US. 8.7%both numbers include UGC btw day 1 it was 11.4M US views vs 117M Global (9.7%) the drop yikes |
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ddlz
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Post by ddlz on Aug 24, 2020 10:48:31 GMT -5
iTunes and digital sales only become semi-relevant when washed up/niche artists and their hardcore fans decide to use them to scam their way to the Hot 100, organizing shady mass buying parties on twitter. #1 best seller on iTunes barely touches 20k in most of normal weeks. That's as dead and irrelevant as it gets. Even in the biggest digital weeks, 100k+purchases is still nothing compared to the 50M+ on demand streams some hits pull from Spotify & Apple Music alone.
So the fact that we're in 2020 and Billboard formula is still positioned in such a way that it gives enough weight to 20k+ crazed fans (who buy 4 copies of the same song from dead services like iTunes) that they can so easily offset a monsters like WAP is beyond ridiculous.
Billboard kept bundles alive for as long as they could because they helped keep pop stars above the water, especially on the album charts. They're doing the same thing here. I don't think Billboard should remove digital sales, just that this current formula doesn't make any sense at all.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 24, 2020 11:44:46 GMT -5
I'm confused. When has a "big hip hop song" ever overshadowed a "big pop era"? WAP overshadowing Cardigan Rockstar overshadowing Rain On Me The Box overshadowing Don’t Start Now I mean, welcome to 2020? Posters constantly complaining about the lack of taste in the U.S./blaming radio when it happens. Like, what even was that question? Cardigan and Rain on Me getting to #1 at all was great, especially since both Gaga and Taylor are not at their peak anymore, and nobody expected Dua Lipa to even get close. I don't recall any outrage in any of those three cases. |
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Aug 24, 2020 12:22:33 GMT -5
Social Media does not represent most of the GP.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 24, 2020 12:31:26 GMT -5
WAP overshadowing Cardigan Rockstar overshadowing Rain On Me The Box overshadowing Don’t Start Now I mean, welcome to 2020? Posters constantly complaining about the lack of taste in the U.S./blaming radio when it happens. Like, what even was that question? Cardigan and Rain on Me getting to #1 at all was great, especially since both Gaga and Taylor are not at their peak anymore, and nobody expected Dua Lipa to even get close. I don't recall any outrage in any of those three cases. Me neither. I'm confused about those examples in particular as the songs in question weren't really in competition other than placement on the Hot 100. Cardigan and Rain On Me were still fairly high-level releases so I don't know what overshadowing took place except for people whose attention span might involve talking about one song per every two-week period or something. |
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fridayteenage
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Post by fridayteenage on Aug 24, 2020 12:58:08 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not like Cardigan or Rain on Me were #2 their 2nd weeks.
And DSN lucked into one T2 week when it peaked #5 streaming and #4 sales.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 24, 2020 14:43:04 GMT -5
Hmmmm, maybe the entire music-following population can only focus on one song at a time.
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