iggyamo
Gold Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 582
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Post by iggyamo on Oct 6, 2020 13:01:26 GMT -5
How to fix the sales shenanigans: 1. Ban bulk buying of digital copies with the same credit card. 2. Same for physical copies on the artists' websites. 3. Only allow the remix with the highest points of the week to count towards the overall Hot 100 placement of a song. I think the remix one may be a bit too much, for example when there are 2 remixes that are both very prevalent, like Whatโs Poppin remix has the majority of the streams while the original had almost all the radio. |
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Post by Naos on Oct 6, 2020 13:02:50 GMT -5
I feel like there is a bit of a bias here. Like there's an impression of there being no way a K-pop group can actually have a real hit in the US. And I'm suspecting those who want to get rid of sales are generally not big on genres like country, rock, and other genres/artists that have a lot more reliance on sales than pop and especially hip-hop. We complained about Yummy. We complained about Say So. We complained about Stuck With U. We complained about Trollz.ย We complained about Watermelon Sugar. We complained about Move Ya Hips. We are currently complaining about Franchise. Notice how everything else isn't k-pop? Notice how all the songs we're complaining about are HH/Pop and none of the songs we're complaining about are Country/Rock? I suppose it's just a coincidence most of these songs aren't very well-liked around here? I've been hating sales all year long as most have.. lol not everything is racism or bias ... Who said anything about racism? |
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at40fansince1984
Charting
Banned
I like the 70's & 80's AT40 shows & wish that the Shadoe Stevens shows could be listened to also.
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 120 
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Post by at40fansince1984 on Oct 6, 2020 13:33:44 GMT -5
I bought a thing called the Cassette or CD Maxi-Single that had sometimes 5-6 remixes on it. BTS should do the same instead of releasing endless single remixes.
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m450n
Gold Member
Joined: November 2019
Posts: 878
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Post by m450n on Oct 6, 2020 13:35:53 GMT -5
I think they should just ban digital sales on artists websites. Vinyls and cds sold on artists websites are usually bought by fans as souvenirs and they are usually like 5 bucks so it costs more to buy, so there isn't really that much of a problem buying them, it's just the digital downloads sold for 69 cents to 1.29.
You should only be able to buy copies on iTunes, Amazon Music, and Google Play, all of those apps limit the purchase of copies to one per account. And it is much harder and more time consuming to make a second iTunes account than it is to buy two carts of 4 digital downloads.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 6, 2020 13:43:44 GMT -5
I think the difference between then and now is that those 90s hits, while forgotten today, were known at the time. Yes the system was less accurate pre-Soundscan/BDS but every number one hit then was a top 10/20 radio and sales hit (in the days before streaming and the internet). The videos were played on MTV or BET or VH1. The songs all had solid 15-20 week runs on the chart (when all chart runs were generally shorter than now). They were hits anyone listening to music then would know. "The First Time" and "She Ain't Worth It" and "I've Been Thinking About You" were all over the radio in '90-'91. Music consumption was more mainstream and homogenous then so more people heard the big hits. Not only will most people (even music fans) not know "TROLLZ" or "FRANCHISE" in 30 years, they already don't know them now. The difference between than and now regarding whatโs โknownโ is that music listeners are much more segmented than 1991. Back then, music came from limited sources. Radio, MTV, and whatever people were able to discover in national magazine publications like Rolling Stone or wherever. As a result, there was much more conformity in the music people listened to because most people were exposed to the same music from the same outlets. Today, you have unlimited sources of music and even though playlisting from streaming sites like Spotify and Apple Music exist, you also have YouTube and whatever other sources, in addition to traditional sources like radio and tv. But with more choice and more ability to customize available, people arenโt as unified in their music as they were 30 years ago. So the days of having a number one song being heard by nearly the entire population are behind us. Now you have the songs/artists that are heard by the most people dominating the charts even when they donโt dominate the population. This is why I donโt agree with cutting out sales from artist websites, for example, because while we may not like the results on the charts, theyโre still sales that people buy into. The reason why they make the chart lopsided is the same reason why sales regularly made the charts lopsided in the 90s. I donโt have a solution other than how we view the โissueโ is on us because we continue to assume the chart represents the same things in the same ways it did decades ago and itโs simply no longer the case. |
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Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,890
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Post by Gary on Oct 6, 2020 13:46:30 GMT -5
Machine Gun Kelly Tops Artist 100 Chart for First Time, Thanks to New Album
By Xander Zellner
10/6/2020www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/9461056/machine-gun-kelly-tops-artist-100-chart-for-first-time/'Tickets to My Downfall' opens atop the Billboard 200. Machine Gun Kelly re-enters the Billboard Artist 100 chart at No. 1, becoming the top musical act in the U.S. for the first time. MGK rules on the strength of his new LP Tickets to My Downfall, which opens as his first No. 1 on the Billboard 200 with 126,000 equivalent album units, according to Nielsen Music/MRC Data. He concurrently tallies four entries on the Billboard Hot 100, led by "My Exโs Best Friend," with blackbear, at No. 28. Notably, Machine Gun Kelly is the seventh artist signed to Interscope Records to top the Artist 100 this year, joining DaBaby, Billie Eilish, Eminem, Selena Gomez, Juice WRLD and Lady Gaga, extending the label's lead for the most No. 1 acts in 2020. Republic Records ranks second with five leading artists. The Artist 100, which launched in 2014, measures artist activity across key metrics of music consumption, blending album and track sales, radio airplay, streaming and social media fan interaction to provide a weekly multi-dimensional ranking of artist popularity.
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Choco
Diamond Member
james dean daydream
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Post by Choco on Oct 6, 2020 13:47:49 GMT -5
Look the sensible argument here is: should 100k copies sold to less than 50k people actually dictate what the most popular song of the week is?
Why does that carry more points than 90m listens on radio or 40m streams?
And this year dedicated fanbases are basically taking control of the chart without it actually meaning the song is making any sort of cultural impact.
Songs like Say So and Watermelon Sugar at least have the decency to be hits without the sales but does anyone even remember Stuck with U anymore? By the time the 69 album dropped TROLLZ was already gone from all charts. This isn't even the first Travis Scott song to do this messy bundling scheme...
Can you tell me that Dynamite really is a massive, groundbreaking hit for KPop... or is it just the same BTS fans buying it nonstop while the general public streams WAP?
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lurker2
Gold Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 690
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Post by lurker2 on Oct 6, 2020 13:52:50 GMT -5
Can you tell me that Dynamite really is a massive, groundbreaking hit for KPop... or is it just the same BTS fans buying it nonstop while the general public streams WAP? I'd say both. It is a pretty big hit (its still top twenty on Spotify), but vastly inflated by stans mass buying. |
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at40fansince1984
Charting
Banned
I like the 70's & 80's AT40 shows & wish that the Shadoe Stevens shows could be listened to also.
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 120
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Post by at40fansince1984 on Oct 6, 2020 13:56:53 GMT -5
I figured out why the charts haven't updated. The BTS fans hacked the website because they're p!ssed that Dynamite isn't #1.
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lights
Charting
https://hot100reviews.home.blog/
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 397
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Post by lights on Oct 6, 2020 14:12:53 GMT -5
Chart has updated although some positions seem to be missing.
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Post by Naos on Oct 6, 2020 14:14:35 GMT -5
Look the sensible argument here is: should 100k copies sold to less than 50k people actually dictate what the most popular song of the week is? Why does that carry more points than 90m listens on radio or 40m streams? And this year dedicated fanbases are basically taking control of the chart without it actually meaning the song is making any sort of cultural impact. Songs like Say So and Watermelon Sugar at least have the decency to be hits without the sales but does anyone even remember Stuck with U anymore? By the time the 69 album dropped TROLLZ was already gone from all charts. This isn't even the first Travis Scott song to do this messy bundling scheme... Can you tell me that Dynamite really is a massive, groundbreaking hit for KPop... or is it just the same BTS fans buying it nonstop while the general public streams WAP? For the radio or streaming point, similar to how 100,000 sales doesn't mean 100,000 bought it, 50 million streams doesn't mean 50 million listeners. If it was the same BTS fans buying it, similar situations would've happened for "Idol", "Fake Love", "Boy With Luv", or "Mic Drop". But those debuted high and dropped like a rock. |
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HolidayGuy
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Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,919
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 6, 2020 14:22:48 GMT -5
Fans buying multiple copies of a single, not to mention deep discounting, goes back to at least the '90s, though, so that is nothing new. Is it easier to do so now? Surely. Billboard has, in the past, said it had filers in place. Like, if it noticed a bulk purchase in the thousands, that would be flagged. This was back when sales were higher, of course.
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kimberly
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act i RENAISSANCE
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Post by kimberly on Oct 6, 2020 14:24:49 GMT -5
Can you tell me that Dynamite really is a massive, groundbreaking hit for KPop... or is it just the same BTS fans buying it nonstop while the general public streams WAP? I think "Dynamite"s hold at the top has been what's frustrating most of y'all right now. All the other "sales tactic" hits vanished pretty fast, with only a couple of them having a second week in the Top 10 at all, and a select few reaching 20 weeks on the chart and going recurrent. "Dynamite" has enjoyed a surprising multi-week reign due to radio support and fan dedication. Another way to offset the sales boosts could be to have a set ratio of points coming in from different components, depending on industry average. I'm making this up, but perhaps a scale like 100 points for sales, 250 for airplay, and 650 for streaming, where the top-performing song in each component receives the maximum available points, and the remaining songs are adjusted to that. (So if a song is #1 on all three components, the maximum points it can receive would be 1000.) The downside of this would be that we couldn't exactly compare points week-to-week, but what's raw data for, am I right? Here's what this week's Top 10 would hypothetically look like with what I'm describing (without looking into paid vs free vs programmed streaming, because I'm lazy and don't want to): | Song | Streaming Points | Airplay Points | Sales Points | TOTAL | | WAP | 650 | 108.8 | 8.4 | 767.2 | | Laugh Now Cry Later | 466.9 | 163.2 | 3.1 | 633.2 | | Mood | 442.2 | 142.8 | 8.1 | 593.1 | | Rockstar | 368.2 | 200.1 | 4.2 | 572.5 | | FRANCHISE | 390.8 | 36.6 | 100 | 527.4 | | Blinding Lights | 267.4 | 250 | 7.2 | 524.6 | | Savage Love | 213.9 | 234.1 | 8.7 | 456.7 | | I Hope | 207.8 | 228.0 | 7.7 | 443.4 | | Watermelon Sugar | 203.6 | 230.2 | 4.7 | 438.6 | | Dynamite | 275.6 | 74.2 | 81.6 | 431.4 |
Edit: I tried 10:30:60 ratio, the only difference it makes is Blinding Lights above FRANCHISE. |
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spicymapping
Platinum Member
ahoe s2e11 out now
Joined: December 2018
Posts: 1,116
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Post by spicymapping on Oct 6, 2020 14:25:34 GMT -5
We complained about Yummy. We complained about Say So. We complained about Stuck With U. We complained about Trollz. We complained about Watermelon Sugar. We complained about Move Ya Hips. We are currently complaining about Franchise. Notice how everything else isn't k-pop? Notice how all the songs we're complaining about are HH/Pop and none of the songs we're complaining about are Country/Rock? I suppose it's just a coincidence most of these songs aren't very well-liked around here? People aren't mad about the charts because they dislike these songs, they dislike these songs because they're mad about the charts. ok maybe everyone hated yummy regardless but point stands |
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Post by campbellssoup on Oct 6, 2020 14:32:38 GMT -5
Put Your Records On debuted at 96. Hopefully it can keep rising!
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Xander
Charting
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 316
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Post by Xander on Oct 6, 2020 14:48:01 GMT -5
How to fix the sales shenanigans: 1. Ban bulk buying of digital copies with the same credit card. 2. Same for physical copies on the artists' websites. 3. Only allow the remix with the highest points of the week to count towards the overall Hot 100 placement of a song. #3 is what Iโve been thinking about yes>>>>>>> |
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iggyamo
Gold Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 582
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Post by iggyamo on Oct 6, 2020 14:55:10 GMT -5
I suppose it's just a coincidence most of these songs aren't very well-liked around here?ย People aren't mad about the charts because they dislike these songs, they dislike these songs because they're mad about the charts. ok maybe everyone hated yummy regardless but point standsI like Dynamite and Franchise, but that doesnโt mean I want the charts to be manipulated in their favor. |
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lazer
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2018
Posts: 2,628
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Post by lazer on Oct 6, 2020 14:57:40 GMT -5
Franchise isn't a bad song but lets be honest, who will remember the song in the next month or two? It's only 1 week hype.
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Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,890
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Post by Gary on Oct 6, 2020 15:12:51 GMT -5
We all will.
We still talk about Trollz. We will still talk about this one as it may set the biggest fall from number one to another spot record
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iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Oct 6, 2020 15:15:33 GMT -5
We all will. We still talk about Trollz. We will still talk about this one as it may set the biggest fall from number one to another spot record You know what they meant... |
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walt91
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Post by walt91 on Oct 6, 2020 15:19:25 GMT -5
goddamn it t*ry lanez got a song to chart
(money over fallouts @ #97)
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๐ก๐๐๐๐๐ค
9x Platinum Member
Justice for Georgia Leah Moses: https://www.georgialeahmoses.com
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Post by ๐ก๐๐๐๐๐ค on Oct 6, 2020 15:20:25 GMT -5
Franchise isn't a bad song but lets be honest, who will remember the song in the next month or two? It's only 1 week hype. I mean, I know I will. Itโs one of my favorite songs by Travis ever (sue me, yes Iโm basic, I canโt help that this, sicko mode & stop trying to be god go off so hard). I know youโre referring to staying power, though. Not sure how itโll do on radio, as M.I.A.โs verse has a pretty mixed reception. Radio could really be a deciding factor - โDance Monkeyโ probably wouldโve went #1 if pop took it to the Top 3 like it did to other debut hits like โSweet But Psychoโ & โTruth Hurtsโ |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 6, 2020 15:24:26 GMT -5
Finally! Two more Country songs in the top 20 of the Hot 100. Chasin' You, Die from a Broken Heart and We Paid survived, while Say So, Savage and Blueberry Faygo went recurrent. No Joji ...
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 6, 2020 15:25:14 GMT -5
Dreams at #6 at Hot 100 Recurrents.
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deepston
5x Platinum Member
Nightmare Dressed Like a Kitty
just like a folk song, our love will be passed on
Joined: August 2017
Posts: 5,661
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Post by deepston on Oct 6, 2020 15:34:24 GMT -5
Franchise isn't a bad song but lets be honest, who will remember the song in the next month or two? It's only 1 week hype. Nobody knows the song now, let alone in 2 months. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 15:38:16 GMT -5
Finally! Two more Country songs in the top 20 of the Hot 100. Chasin' You, Die from a Broken Heart and We Paid survived, while Say So, Savage and Blueberry Faygo went recurrent. No Joji ... I love how Chasin' You has just refused to go recurrent for months now |
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kimberly
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act i RENAISSANCE
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Post by kimberly on Oct 6, 2020 15:43:50 GMT -5
Franchise isn't a bad song but lets be honest, who will remember the song in the next month or two? It's only 1 week hype. Nobody knows the song now, let alone in 2 months. you keep saying this and it is such an exaggeration. no matter how you slice it, FRANCHISE was one of the top performing songs this week. the #1 is questionable perhaps but people were clearly interested in it. definitely not saying it will have longevity, or it will be remembered 3 years from now, but it was one of the most popular songs of the week here in the US. Edit: Like I'm in no way a Travis Scott fan, and I don't stream music by men often, but I checked this out because people were talking about it. |
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kacpi
Charting
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Posts: 378
Pronouns: he/him
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Post by kacpi on Oct 6, 2020 15:52:12 GMT -5
goddamn it t*ry lanez got a song to chart (money over fallouts @ #97) f**king Tory Lanez got a charting song and Joji didn't? This is a real low point, this one hurts |
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lurker2
Gold Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 690
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Post by lurker2 on Oct 6, 2020 16:53:12 GMT -5
I feel like Franchise was definitely a top ten, and IMO top 5. Definitely not number one, though.
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thyler
Charting
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Post by thyler on Oct 6, 2020 17:28:36 GMT -5
Finally! Two more Country songs in the top 20 of the Hot 100. Chasin' You, Die from a Broken Heart and We Paid survived, while Say So, Savage and Blueberry Faygo went recurrent. No Joji ... I love how Chasin' You has just refused to go recurrent for months now yeah... it somehow managed to survive three major album bombs getting pushed to as low as 49 TWO times on the danger of going recurrent... |
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