jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 35,611
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 30, 2020 13:57:24 GMT -5
I would buy 5 to 10 copies of a cassette single back in the day. It's been happening for years. I don't understand why people get so irritated, with it. Nothing new in my eyes. It not being new doesn't mean it isn't annoying/cheating/whatever. |
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Post by Mayman on Nov 30, 2020 13:57:53 GMT -5
I think they mean 10 copies of the same digital copy bought by a single person, which are counted as 10 sales instead of 1. They are talking about Dynamite which has 10 versions. Life Goes On has one version only. The most you can buy per tracking week from the d2c store is 4 copies of that one single. Anything over that is automatically filtered and doesn't count. This is the same with every other artist's site sales, so the playing field is 100% level. Anyone attempting to delegitimize BTS's #1 and charting from BE this week has no valid grounds to do so. I've seen people buying 4 copies on different purchases, which from what I understand, won't get filtered out until the account has purchased over 10 copies. I'm not positive about this though. I don't think the criticism is really on BTS, but more so the tatics that their fans use to reach #1, which for whatever reason Billboard continues to allow. They are not the only artist who does this, but they are the most used example as they have reached #1 three times in the past few months. |
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lazer
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2018
Posts: 2,627 
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Post by lazer on Nov 30, 2020 13:58:21 GMT -5
There is also no Dakiti here wtf? That song has strong streams. This formula is so corrupted I swear to god..
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Post by jaydoesnotknow on Nov 30, 2020 13:58:39 GMT -5
I would buy 5 to 10 copies of a cassette single back in the day. It's been happening for years. I don't understand why people get so irritated, with it. Nothing new in my eyes. It not being new doesn't mean it isn't annoying/cheating/whatever. It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. |
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jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 35,611
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 30, 2020 14:00:05 GMT -5
The track debuts at No. 1 on the Digital Song Sales chart and No. 14 on Streaming Songs. So much for many of you griping that it's barely top 40 in streams lol |
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Choco
Diamond Member
james dean daydream
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 27,977
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
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Post by Choco on Nov 30, 2020 14:00:42 GMT -5
"Historic" lmao.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Nov 30, 2020 14:01:13 GMT -5
It not being new doesn't mean it isn't annoying/cheating/whatever. It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. “If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate” is the worst excuse for being a shitty person that people actually use. Don’t be that person. |
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iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Nov 30, 2020 14:02:31 GMT -5
It not being new doesn't mean it isn't annoying/cheating/whatever. It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. Pretty sure Billboard would consider American fans fundraising money from non-American fans to buy songs repeatedly to inflate a chart position cheating even if they managed not to be able to detect it. |
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Post by kcdawg13 on Nov 30, 2020 14:03:35 GMT -5
It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. “If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate” is the worst excuse for being a s**tty person that people actually use. Don’t be that person. It reminds me of when I used to play Call of Duty and dudes would glitch into the wall and be untouchable all game long, yeah technically it's a glitch so it's allowed, but you are still a shit bag for doing it. |
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jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 35,611
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 30, 2020 14:04:08 GMT -5
It not being new doesn't mean it isn't annoying/cheating/whatever. It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. Something can be within the rules and still be 'cheating.' Part of the definition of cheating is something "unfair, and there's "cheating the system" (though there's also a definition of cheating that means avoiding that wouldn't apply here). |
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Post by jaydoesnotknow on Nov 30, 2020 14:05:55 GMT -5
It’s not cheating though. If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate. You guys really need to learn how to differentiate cheating from annoying. Are the chart rules annoying? Hell yes! Are fanbases who are following the chart rules cheating? No. “If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate” is the worst excuse for being a s**tty person that people actually use. Don’t be that person. For saying it’s legitimate? The chart rules are annoying! Even as a BTS fan, I hate it and Billboard needs to look into reforming their chart to represent what people are actually listening to but to sit here and act like fans are cheating when these things are allowed is not correct or fair to fans who are going about this the way the chart allows. The fandom has strong sales power due to lack of radio play and how much they suck at streaming. As of now, whatever is happening with the sales is legitimate on the chart. It’s annoying. I get it!!!! But it is not cheating. I’m sorry you’re pissed and angry and want to be a total a**hole on here about this, I truly am but the chart is the way it is now and the only thing we can do is wait and hope for Billboard to change it. |
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Choco
Diamond Member
james dean daydream
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 27,977
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
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Post by Choco on Nov 30, 2020 14:06:19 GMT -5
Billboard is too busy counting the clicks generated by these generic ass songs doing well on their chart to worry about manipulation.
If BTS was not a Korean act they would be dragged to hell and back by the press already. But of course we have to support them because it's somehow xenophobic if you don't.
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Post by rosalina4812 on Nov 30, 2020 14:06:57 GMT -5
People are mad because their favs don't have the fanbase to achieve this without alternative versions or radioplay. Grats to BTS.
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strongerq
Platinum Member
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 1,507
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Post by strongerq on Nov 30, 2020 14:08:16 GMT -5
For saying it’s legitimate? The chart rules are annoying! Even as a BTS fan, I hate it and Billboard needs to look into reforming their chart to represent what people are actually listening to but to sit here and act like fans are cheating when these things are allowed is not correct or fair to fans who are going about this the way the chart allows. The fandom has strong sales power due to lack of radio play and how much they suck at streaming. As of now, whatever is happening with the sales is legitimate on the chart. It’s annoying. I get it!!!! But it is not cheating. I’m sorry you’re pissed and angry and want to be a total a**hole on here about this, I truly am but the chart is the way it is now and the only thing we can do is wait and hope for Billboard to change it. Please explain this to me, i have asked many BTS fans.
Does this mean :
they suck at streaming == THEY AREN'T LEAVING THE SONG ON REPEAT 24/7
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atg
3x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2016
Posts: 3,004
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Post by atg on Nov 30, 2020 14:10:14 GMT -5
Can you guys stop being so toxic and obnoxious, i ran out of popcorn
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Post by jaydoesnotknow on Nov 30, 2020 14:16:32 GMT -5
For saying it’s legitimate? The chart rules are annoying! Even as a BTS fan, I hate it and Billboard needs to look into reforming their chart to represent what people are actually listening to but to sit here and act like fans are cheating when these things are allowed is not correct or fair to fans who are going about this the way the chart allows. The fandom has strong sales power due to lack of radio play and how much they suck at streaming. As of now, whatever is happening with the sales is legitimate on the chart. It’s annoying. I get it!!!! But it is not cheating. I’m sorry you’re pissed and angry and want to be a total a**hole on here about this, I truly am but the chart is the way it is now and the only thing we can do is wait and hope for Billboard to change it. Please explain this to me, i have asked many BTS fans.
Does this mean :
they suck at streaming == THEY AREN'T LEAVING THE SONG ON REPEAT 24/7
The BTS fandom tends to loop the song. And I’ve fallen victim of this too. Not to inflate streams because looping doesn’t count as a stream but because if I really like a song, I tend to listen to it over and over it again. The fandom has tried creating play listing and have tried gravitating from looping but the majority still fall into it. I tend to loop because I listen to the song for first impressions, then for each verse and then I loop again to read and translate the lyrics. That’s why I loop and I know my streams don’t count because I am looping. It happens and we suck at it. That + no radio play , we end up having to go to sales. Personally I only buy from iTunes and Amazon but a big chunk of the fandom does store sales. The store sales are the only way BTS even have a chance on the charts since they don’t have the other components working for them. Like i said, i get thats annoying I really do but it’s allowed and Billboard needs to change that. I don’t see it happening any time soon though. |
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lucidruid
Charting
Joined: September 2020
Posts: 46
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Post by lucidruid on Nov 30, 2020 14:23:19 GMT -5
They are talking about Dynamite which has 10 versions. Life Goes On has one version only. The most you can buy per tracking week from the d2c store is 4 copies of that one single. Anything over that is automatically filtered and doesn't count. This is the same with every other artist's site sales, so the playing field is 100% level. Anyone attempting to delegitimize BTS's #1 and charting from BE this week has no valid grounds to do so. I've seen people buying 4 copies on different purchases, which from what I understand, won't get filtered out until the account has purchased over 10 copies. I'm not positive about this though. I don't think the criticism is really on BTS, but more so the tatics that their fans use to reach #1, which for whatever reason Billboard continues to allow. They are not the only artist who does this, but they are the most used example as they have reached #1 three times in the past few months. this is not true. in regards to D2C sales, the maximum amount you can purchase per card is 4 copies. anything above that it considered bulk buying and the amount purchased will not count for the Billboard charts (but i’m pretty sure they still count for RIAA). this works the same for albums. anything over 4 copies is considered bulk buying. so technically, the amount of copies one person can purchase per week is (4x(amount of versions)). if a song has 1 version, max amount is 4 purchases, if there are 5 versions, 20 purchases. |
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fridayteenage
5x Platinum Member
Shake it Off
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 5,493
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Post by fridayteenage on Nov 30, 2020 14:23:40 GMT -5
Macarena
Despacito
Life Goes On
The Soundscan era trinity.
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iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Nov 30, 2020 14:23:56 GMT -5
"What's Poppin" (projected to be #41 this week) got more points from streams/airplay than the #1 song.
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failstoner
Charting
Joined: January 2020
Posts: 240
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Post by failstoner on Nov 30, 2020 14:24:29 GMT -5
Billboard is too busy counting the clicks generated by these generic ass songs doing well on their chart to worry about manipulation. If BTS was not a Korean act they would be dragged to hell and back by the press already. But of course we have to support them because it's somehow xenophobic if you don't. Literally no one said this except for the random pulse dude who is clearly saying BS Billboard should downweight sales and limit website sales counting into charts, fans being passionate about their artist isn't chart manipulation although it isexcessive. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Nov 30, 2020 14:25:40 GMT -5
“If it’s allowed, it’s legitimate” is the worst excuse for being a s**tty person that people actually use. Don’t be that person. For saying it’s legitimate? The chart rules are annoying! Even as a BTS fan, I hate it and Billboard needs to look into reforming their chart to represent what people are actually listening to but to sit here and act like fans are cheating when these things are allowed is not correct or fair to fans who are going about this the way the chart allows. The fandom has strong sales power due to lack of radio play and how much they suck at streaming. As of now, whatever is happening with the sales is legitimate on the chart. It’s annoying. I get it!!!! But it is not cheating. I’m sorry you’re pissed and angry and want to be a total a**hole on here about this, I truly am but the chart is the way it is now and the only thing we can do is wait and hope for Billboard to change it. The charts are supposed to measure what people are buying and/or listening to each week. As soon as people start changing their habits for the sole purpose of influencing the charts, it becomes pointless. Imagine if oil companies could impact daily temperature readings by install refrigeration units in key places, thus making the average globs temperature lower than it actually is to make themselves look good. Or imagine if governments purposely avoided conducted covid testing for its population to avoid placing higher on the list of countries with the most cases to make themselves look better. From a measurement standpoint, just because it’s allowed, doesn’t make it right or even make sense. As soon as groups begin manipulating the results en masse and on purpose, it makes the entire chart pointless. Stan bases are why these types of achievements don’t hold as much merit as ones from years past. And yes, I’m fully aware chart manipulation has always been a thing to some degree and it’s not only BTS fans. It’s only fairly recently we’re seeing the more blatant examples of it. |
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jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 35,611
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 30, 2020 14:27:21 GMT -5
"What's Poppin" (projected to be #41 this week) got more points from streams/airplay than the #1 song. How many streams did it have, and why is it not higher than #41? |
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Post by Henry Suárez on Nov 30, 2020 14:27:25 GMT -5
The Hot 100 seems so corrupted nowadays. (not saying this because of BTS)
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jayhawk1117
2x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2013
Posts: 2,758
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Post by jayhawk1117 on Nov 30, 2020 14:28:44 GMT -5
I mean now that it's clear billboard clearly don't give a fuck, I fully expect artists with hyper passionate fanbases to do the same thing until BB does something 🤷🏾♂️.
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Post by jaydoesnotknow on Nov 30, 2020 14:29:28 GMT -5
For saying it’s legitimate? The chart rules are annoying! Even as a BTS fan, I hate it and Billboard needs to look into reforming their chart to represent what people are actually listening to but to sit here and act like fans are cheating when these things are allowed is not correct or fair to fans who are going about this the way the chart allows. The fandom has strong sales power due to lack of radio play and how much they suck at streaming. As of now, whatever is happening with the sales is legitimate on the chart. It’s annoying. I get it!!!! But it is not cheating. I’m sorry you’re pissed and angry and want to be a total a**hole on here about this, I truly am but the chart is the way it is now and the only thing we can do is wait and hope for Billboard to change it. The charts are supposed to measure what people are buying and/or listening to each week. As soon as people start changing their habits for the sole purpose of influencing the charts, it becomes pointless. Imagine if oil companies could impact daily temperature readings by install refrigeration units in key places, thus making the average globs temperature lower than it actually is to make themselves look good. Or imagine if governments purposely avoided conducted covid testing for its population to avoid placing higher on the list of countries with the most cases to make themselves look better. From a measurement standpoint, just because it’s allowed, doesn’t make it right or even make sense. As soon as groups begin manipulating the results en masse and on purpose, it makes the entire chart pointless. Stan bases are why these types of achievements don’t hold as much merit as ones from years past. And yes, I’m fully aware chart manipulation has always been a thing to some degree and it’s not only BTS fans. It’s only fairly recently we’re seeing the more blatant examples of it. Thats what i said though... it shouldn’t be allowed and the rules do need to be changed to reflect what the majority of the public are listening to. But as of right now, November 30th 2020, it is legally allowed on the charts therefor it is not cheating. It is annoying, it needs to be changed, and the change needs to happen sooner than later but it is allowed and it is not cheating. |
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musicspy
Gold Member
Joined: August 2018
Posts: 978
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Post by musicspy on Nov 30, 2020 14:30:29 GMT -5
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Choco
Diamond Member
james dean daydream
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 27,977
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
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Post by Choco on Nov 30, 2020 14:31:03 GMT -5
Billboard is too busy counting the clicks generated by these generic ass songs doing well on their chart to worry about manipulation. If BTS was not a Korean act they would be dragged to hell and back by the press already. But of course we have to support them because it's somehow xenophobic if you don't. Literally no one said this except for the random pulse dude who is clearly saying BS Billboard should downweight sales and limit website sales counting into charts, fans being passionate about their artist isn't chart manipulation although it isexcessive. I wasn't specifically countering an argument made on this thread but the fan defenses do usually range from "you have to support them because they're nice guys" to "you only dislike them bc they're from Korea". Like, at least make it about how good the music is to you... |
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Nov 30, 2020 14:31:31 GMT -5
There must be an error here. Dynamite had to been #4. Otherwise, it would be impossible for it to be #3 on the Hot 100 with less than 20k sales. |
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iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Nov 30, 2020 14:32:33 GMT -5
"What's Poppin" (projected to be #41 this week) got more points from streams/airplay than the #1 song. How many streams did it have, and why is it not higher than #41? Via TOTC calculations: 1. Life Goes On - 398 total points: 75% sales, 25% streams, 0%~ airplay = 25% of points from streams/airplay = 100 points from sales/streams 41. Whats Poppin - 107 total points: 2% sales, 75% streams, 23% airplay = 98% of points from streams/airplay = 105 points from sales/streams |
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kalmanta
Gold Member
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 787
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Post by kalmanta on Nov 30, 2020 14:34:39 GMT -5
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