zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 17, 2022 11:46:56 GMT -5
This is one of the most annoying chart runs I’ve seen. It’s testing great, connecting so-so (not amazing, but not outright bad) why can’t radio start giving this consistent conversions. Feels like it’ll have a good update one day followed by a bad one the next.
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HeyHeyHey
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Post by HeyHeyHey on Aug 17, 2022 12:36:33 GMT -5
This is one of the most annoying chart runs I’ve seen. It’s testing great, connecting so-so (not amazing, but not outright bad) why can’t radio start giving this consistent conversions. Feels like it’ll have a good update one day followed by a bad one the next. Nearly everything above it feels like a bigger (or just as big) of a hit. I think this can and will make the top 5 eventually, it is just a very competitive top of the chart right now and not everyone can have a great update every day.
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Post by lady𝓐fan on Aug 17, 2022 13:18:40 GMT -5
Logically, “Ghost Story” should be higher by now – radio was unnecessarily slow with this one at first (it took about a month and a half just to get back into the top 30 after its hourly debut) even though the signs of a decent hit were there; it had great feedback scores and solid streaming numbers. Now that it’s finally in the top 10, however, consumption has decreased dramatically due to the album already having been released, and I have a feeling that that’s playing into these slower conversions and will probably cause a lower peak than what it would’ve achieved with a faster chart run. I feel like this year especially we’ve been witnessing a disconnect between a single’s consumption and its radio peak, a phenomenon that seems to disproportionately affect female-led songs due to radio’s continuing hesitance to convert them. “Never Wanted to Be That Girl”, “Circles Around This Town”, and “half of my hometown” (and “Drunk” to a lesser degree) all suffered similarly to “Ghost Story”, with consumption starting out strong but weakening as their chart runs dragged on and on. It’s definitely frustrating to see singles that are clearly hits get bogged down by country radio’s long chart runs and plain sexism.
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christianlarson9
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Post by christianlarson9 on Aug 17, 2022 15:35:40 GMT -5
The time it takes a single to rise up the charts is maddening! I do like "Ghost Story" very much. It would not have been my choice for the lead, but I do understand why they felt the need to choose it. Hoping it hits #1 on both charts, but the chart is pretty crowded and it will have to wait it's turn. I'm surprised how "Wishful Drinking" is starting to really rise and could conceivably jump "Ghost Story." That's something I didn't expect. "Wishful Drinking" is streaming and selling much better than "Ghost Story" and appears to be testing well too (if MMI is accurate).
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 17, 2022 20:30:38 GMT -5
I know I've said it before, but I really don't get the benefit of them continuing to work "GS" at this point. Is anyone making money off of it?
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Aug 17, 2022 20:39:00 GMT -5
I mean if they drop "Ghost Story" it will probably be a while until Carrie Underwood is at a similar level of airplay as she is at now no matter what she releases as it is not exactly like any of the songs off the album have more buzz than this.
Best course of action is to just ride this song out until it can't climb any higher and while it's not doing amazing, it's still hanging in there fine enough.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Aug 17, 2022 20:55:14 GMT -5
I know I've said it before, but I really don't get the benefit of them continuing to work "GS" at this point. Is anyone making money off of it? Women would be worse off at country radio than ever before if they just dropped singles every time they weren't flying up the chart at record speed. "Ghost Story" is testing well and its sales/streaming impact has been decent.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Aug 18, 2022 0:44:50 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see them dropping Ghost Story anytime soon, and tbh I don't know if I really see any song off Denim smashing a la Blown Away or even Church Bells. Burn is probably the best shot but I think it's far from a guarantee. I know the album isn't doing fantastic, but rushing out another single to radio just for it to stall/not do much better doesn't seem like the right move when GS still has legs and is doing okay in terms of callouts and radio success. If GS keeps gaining radio airplay it's at least promoting the album more than having a song in the lower half of the chart/not having a song getting played at all.
I do think though it's probably time we consider the possibility that Carrie has moved into legacy act territory. It happened earlier than any of us would have liked, but I think Cry Pretty kind of shot her in the foot as far as radio success is concerned. She's getting older, she's been around a long time at this point, she'll continue to make millions of dollars off of touring for the rest of her career. But I think the days of her shooting up to No. 1 and selling (or streaming) millions of singles/albums are gone.
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daddy
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Post by daddy on Aug 18, 2022 4:17:50 GMT -5
I mean if they drop "Ghost Story" it will probably be a while until Carrie Underwood is at a similar level of airplay as she is at now no matter what she releases as it is not exactly like any of the songs off the album have more buzz than this. Best course of action is to just ride this song out until it can't climb any higher and while it's not doing amazing, it's still hanging in there fine enough. There are plenty of songs on the album that many listeners consider more radio friendly than Ghost Story.
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 18, 2022 4:57:26 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see them dropping Ghost Story anytime soon, and tbh I don't know if I really see any song off Denim smashing a la Blown Away or even Church Bells. Burn is probably the best shot but I think it's far from a guarantee. I know the album isn't doing fantastic, but rushing out another single to radio just for it to stall/not do much better doesn't seem like the right move when GS still has legs and is doing okay in terms of callouts and radio success. If GS keeps gaining radio airplay it's at least promoting the album more than having a song in the lower half of the chart/not having a song getting played at all. I do think though it's probably time we consider the possibility that Carrie has moved into legacy act territory. It happened earlier than any of us would have liked, but I think Cry Pretty kind of shot her in the foot as far as radio success is concerned. She's getting older, she's been around a long time at this point, she'll continue to make millions of dollars off of touring for the rest of her career. But I think the days of her shooting up to No. 1 and selling (or streaming) millions of singles/albums are gone. Eh, she’s surely not a spring chicken anymore, but she is pretty much right there with everyone else. Somebody posted a table showing the average time it took songs to reach top 10/ number 1, and the average for 2022 was 38.1 weeks. GS clocked in at 20 weeks, I think there might have been a slight decline in her interest for this album cycle (especially since most people saw GS as a grower and not something immediate), but I think the main difference is the change in the chart runs for country radio, and the change in the way music is consumed now in general.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Aug 18, 2022 13:41:53 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see them dropping Ghost Story anytime soon, and tbh I don't know if I really see any song off Denim smashing a la Blown Away or even Church Bells. Burn is probably the best shot but I think it's far from a guarantee. I know the album isn't doing fantastic, but rushing out another single to radio just for it to stall/not do much better doesn't seem like the right move when GS still has legs and is doing okay in terms of callouts and radio success. If GS keeps gaining radio airplay it's at least promoting the album more than having a song in the lower half of the chart/not having a song getting played at all. I do think though it's probably time we consider the possibility that Carrie has moved into legacy act territory. It happened earlier than any of us would have liked, but I think Cry Pretty kind of shot her in the foot as far as radio success is concerned. She's getting older, she's been around a long time at this point, she'll continue to make millions of dollars off of touring for the rest of her career. But I think the days of her shooting up to No. 1 and selling (or streaming) millions of singles/albums are gone. Eh, she’s surely not a spring chicken anymore, but she is pretty much right there with everyone else. Somebody posted a table showing the average time it took songs to reach top 10/ number 1, and the average for 2022 was 38.1 weeks. GS clocked in at 20 weeks, I think there might have been a slight decline in her interest for this album cycle (especially since most people saw GS as a grower and not something immediate), but I think the main difference is the change in the chart runs for country radio, and the change in the way music is consumed now in general. I was actually referring more to how the album as a whole was doing as opposed to the radio success. Like it or not, the album isn't doing very well.
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Post by theyaintready on Aug 19, 2022 8:35:08 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see them dropping Ghost Story anytime soon, and tbh I don't know if I really see any song off Denim smashing a la Blown Away or even Church Bells. Burn is probably the best shot but I think it's far from a guarantee. I know the album isn't doing fantastic, but rushing out another single to radio just for it to stall/not do much better doesn't seem like the right move when GS still has legs and is doing okay in terms of callouts and radio success. If GS keeps gaining radio airplay it's at least promoting the album more than having a song in the lower half of the chart/not having a song getting played at all. I do think though it's probably time we consider the possibility that Carrie has moved into legacy act territory. It happened earlier than any of us would have liked, but I think Cry Pretty kind of shot her in the foot as far as radio success is concerned. She's getting older, she's been around a long time at this point, she'll continue to make millions of dollars off of touring for the rest of her career. But I think the days of her shooting up to No. 1 and selling (or streaming) millions of singles/albums are gone. She's nearly 40 so it makes sense. This happened to Reba around 40 too (she shot herself in the foot with the Starting Over album), but she still had another 15+ years of continuing to have hits and still occasionallIy hitting #1. I feel like Carrie can have a similar trajectory. Sadly it's difficult to have a 20+ year successful radio career as a female in this genre. You can count the women who have done it on one hand essentially.
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 19, 2022 9:20:33 GMT -5
I mean. I agree the album isn't doing all that well, but I really can't name a lot of recent releases that are doing much better. Out of the top 30 country albums on BB only 7 have been released in the past year, and almost half of those consist of albums with 30+ songs. In the streaming age, from an artist that debuted with the main consumption being sales, having an album with only 12 songs I really don't know what y'all were expecting when sales are in the toilet. Everybody's numbers declined, not just Carrie's. Jason Aldean had IIDLY (one of the biggest songs in recent years) as the lead single and still had numbers relatively close to Carrie, and fell out of the top 30 within a similar time frame of D&R, and that's from having a huge hit, whereas GS is not.
If we're comparing her to her previous chart runs/ history, then 100% yes this would be a big ole flop, and would seem like she's a legacy act at this point. However, if everyone's albums are pretty much doing the same thing (minus Combs, or Wallen, or anyone that has an excessive track list in hopes of large streaming numbers), it's tacky to specifically focus on the woman, when it's appears to be more of a genre thing.
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schnetzka
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Post by schnetzka on Aug 19, 2022 9:29:07 GMT -5
I do think it is worth mentioning though that albums released by a woman a few months before Carrie's are charting higher than hers (like Miranda). I don't know if that'll mean that in a few months Carrie's will be higher or if her album for some reason is just not doing as well as her female peers.
I remember when the album was released, it sold a few thousand less than what Miranda's album did and so even though they were close, there is still that disparity there. I don't know if it's because Miranda's album is more country-esque but it is something to think about.
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Post by theyaintready on Aug 19, 2022 9:32:59 GMT -5
I mean. I agree the album isn't doing all that well, but I really can't name a lot of recent releases that are doing much better. Out of the top 30 country albums on BB only 7 have been released in the past year, and almost half of those consist of albums with 30+ songs. In the streaming age, from an artist that debuted with the main consumption being sales, having an album with only 12 songs I really don't know what y'all were expecting when sales are in the toilet. Everybody's numbers declined, not just Carrie's. Jason Aldean had IIDLY (one of the biggest songs in recent years) as the lead single and still had numbers relatively close to Carrie, and fell out of the top 30 within a similar time frame of D&R, and that's from having a huge hit, whereas GS is not. If we're comparing her to her previous chart runs/ history, then 100% yes this would be a big ole flop, and would seem like she's a legacy act at this point. However, if everyone's albums are pretty much doing the same thing (minus Combs, or Wallen, or anyone that has an excessive track list in hopes of large streaming numbers), it's tacky to specifically focus on the woman, when it's appears to be more of a genre thing. I'm specifically discussing radio, not album sales.
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CoJoFan
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Post by CoJoFan on Aug 20, 2022 12:03:24 GMT -5
Really hoping this hits top 10 on Country Airplay soon before radio decides to give up on it like they did Maren’s single. With the way everything is passing it up on that chart and nobody in the top 10 hardly falling out I’m getting worried this may not end up being her 30th top 10 but I’m trying to stay optimistic it will too.
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Hil
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Post by Hil on Aug 21, 2022 1:39:25 GMT -5
It's funny to me Carrie has to outdo everyone in order to not be considered a "legacy act." She's pretty much selling and charting at radio with her peers, but she's a legacy act? Okay. She's definitely closer than she was yesterday, lol but I think she has another album cycle, depending on how the other singles do, before we start talking legacy. I'm assuming Miranda and others are legacy acts too by these standards?
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Aug 21, 2022 6:02:24 GMT -5
It's funny to me Carrie has to outdo everyone in order to not be considered a "legacy act." She's pretty much selling and charting at radio with her peers, but she's a legacy act? Okay. She's definitely closer than she was yesterday, lol but I think she has another album cycle, depending on how the other singles do, before we start talking legacy. I'm assuming Miranda and others are legacy acts too by these standards? You're making a legacy act sound like a bad thing when in fact it's a good thing. A legacy act doesn't have to worry about chart success to stay relevant. A legacy act can have an album not do so well (like Carrie's current album) but still sell out shows. A legacy act can have songs miss the top of the charts but have no fear of a label dropping them or not releasing any more albums. I know we are not used to Carrie not dominating the charts like she has before, but let's not be defensive or every little thing (especially when the the thing we're being defensive about is a positive). Literally every current artist would KILL to be a legacy act.
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Hil
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Post by Hil on Aug 21, 2022 18:32:53 GMT -5
So we're considering Miranda, Jason, Luke Bryan all of these people legacy acts? It is a bad thing at this stage in her career when fans say that. They're acting like she's not competitive with her peers when in fact she and Miranda are still dominating female country in every aspect tbh. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just find it strange that if Carrie doesn't sell more than everyone else she's all the sudden a legacy act when she's right there with everyone else, that's all.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Aug 21, 2022 18:47:03 GMT -5
So we're considering Miranda, Jason, Luke Bryan all of these people legacy acts? It is a bad thing at this stage in her career when fans say that. They're acting like she's not competitive with her peers when in fact she and Miranda are still dominating female country in every aspect tbh. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just find it strange that if Carrie doesn't sell more than everyone else she's all the sudden a legacy act when she's right there with everyone else, that's all. Lol okay. She's not a legacy act then. She's just struggling/bombing with this album and her lead single seems to be not connecting and probably will only be top 10. Is that better?
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taylor
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Post by taylor on Aug 21, 2022 19:29:40 GMT -5
Depending on how the chart looks when the time comes, this could get its week at the top, but I’m not getting my hopes up. She’s had her day in the sun. While there are a myriad of choices imo for radio singles and I do think a good number of them (especially “Burn”) have the potential to be #1 hits, I do agree that, even if she could possibly have one or two more big cycles left in the tank, she IS slowly reaching legacy status, which is defined as this: She has her tour sales and the legs of signature songs like BHC and JTTW. On that alone, she is set for the rest of her life, regardless of how later albums will perform. As much as a lot of y’all hate to see it, it was inevitable. And to answer Hil , yes; I personally would group Miranda (albeit to a lesser degree), Luke B, etc. into that same category. They all started at the same time; this happens to every generation of artists in every genre. When the artist’s individual time comes is what remains to be seen; Carrie could indeed still have 15 more years of successful eras with occasional chart toppers, just like Reba did. Either way, she’s become a legend, and we see this with new artists like Lauren Alaina naming Carrie as their biggest idol.
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Hil
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Post by Hil on Aug 21, 2022 22:32:12 GMT -5
So we're considering Miranda, Jason, Luke Bryan all of these people legacy acts? It is a bad thing at this stage in her career when fans say that. They're acting like she's not competitive with her peers when in fact she and Miranda are still dominating female country in every aspect tbh. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just find it strange that if Carrie doesn't sell more than everyone else she's all the sudden a legacy act when she's right there with everyone else, that's all. Lol okay. She's not a legacy act then. She's just struggling/bombing with this album and her lead single seems to be not connecting and probably will only be top 10. Is that better? Then I guess Miranda, Maren and everyone else are struggling and bombing as well. GS is actually testing well for what it's worth. My point was she's doing exactly what every other country act is at this moment in time excluding a few males. So is everyone struggling and bombing? When Reba went into legacy status Miranda and Carrie were selling anywhere from 150-200k opening sales while Reba was putting up 20-40k. My only point is that Carrie is still right there with everyone else, only difference is she's not outselling them anymore. If you consider that legacy, that's fine, I mean't no harm. I guess I'll consider her a legacy act when she can no longer keep up with her peers.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Aug 22, 2022 0:04:12 GMT -5
In terms of the strength of her album sales/streams, D&R isn't even on the Billboard 200 anymore per my latest Google search. Based on posts people have made in here, her album has actually fallen below Miranda's latest album, which was released before D&R. Like it or not, Carrie went from consistently outperforming all of her peers to (perhaps slightly) underperforming to all of her peers. You're probably right that it won't affect her much, but the reality is that's a seismic shift (drop) for her. Even if the album isn't doing "that badly" I would argue it's struggling pretty hard right now compared to how Cry Pretty did. I understand Cry Pretty had a tour bundle, I understand it was released pre-covid, and I understand the music industry has changed since 2018, but even so, CP seemed to have more legs than D&R has had up to this point. GS and CP (song) have performed roughly the same on the radio charts if I recall correctly. I also understand sales for everybody are in the toilet, but I'm referring specifically to chart placement--which, imo, is a more accurate indicator to compare the time we are in within the music industry. The album is performing poorly (for Carrie's standards) despite Carrie's chart history and despite having a Top 10 Country Airplay hit right now. You say she is right there with everyone else, but she is actually slightly below everyone else--which is disappointing to go from consistently outperforming everyone else to being just below everyone else.
As far as her radio performance, I think it's too soon to tell. Cry Pretty (album) did her no favors on country radio, with Cry Pretty, Love Wins, and Drinking Alone underperforming (again, compared to her past chart history). Southbound saved the album to an extent, but it still didn't do amazingly well. She is essentially starting over on radio, which perhaps isn't a huge deal, but it remains to be seen whether she will continue to be a force on country radio or not.
Finally, while I believe Carrie may have entered legacy act territory, I don't believe this is the end of her career. Far from it. She'll probably snag a few more hits, and I don't think she's going to completely fall off the charts altogether. But I think she will continue to fall with each new release that passes. How quickly will she fall? I guess we'll soon find out.
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carriefan15
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Post by carriefan15 on Aug 22, 2022 1:35:31 GMT -5
^ How quickly will she fall??? 😂😂😂 I’m sorry but that legit made me laugh pretty hard lol
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schnetzka
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The album that never ends... I mean 'THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT: THE ANTHOLOGY' out now!
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Post by schnetzka on Aug 22, 2022 6:12:01 GMT -5
As long as she doesn't reach a point where she stops releasing music or takes a long time in between her albums then I'll be happy. I do not want another Trisha Yearwood situation where they can go 10+ years without releasing an album.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 22, 2022 6:45:44 GMT -5
At this point I’d assume the main way Carrie makes money is from touring (and things like her football gig), so poor album sales aren’t a big deal as long as she’s selling tickets. I guess a radio hit can help in that regard. Album sales in general are so poor now that even if Carrie’s team put in more promo, the album would only sell like 30k more in total which wouldn't bring in much profit (especially considering promo costs).
The slowness of country radio is a real problem, and that is true outside of Carrie. I can’t imagine labels want things to be this slow?? Or is there something I’m missing? I guess that slowness benefits acts like Wallen and Combs who have good streaming because their albums can coast for literal years, but it hurts pretty much everyone else.
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 22, 2022 7:35:20 GMT -5
At this point I’d assume the main way Carrie makes money is from touring (and things like her football gig), so poor album sales aren’t a big deal as long as she’s selling tickets. I guess a radio hit can help in that regard. Album sales in general are so poor now that even if Carrie’s album sold an extra 30k in total or something, that’s not really all that much money. Plus it would take more promo money to do that, so the extra sales wouldn’t be all profit. The slowness of country radio is a real problem, and that is true outside of Carrie. I can’t imagine labels want things to be this slow?? Or is there something I’m missing? I guess that slowness benefits acts like Wallen and Combs who have good streaming because their albums can coast for literal years, but it hurts pretty much everyone else. Honestly I think labels are partially to blame for the long chart runs. Labels are slow to drop a song even if it technically isn't a hit, because they want a high chart peak (best recent examples I can think of are 7500 OBO, Best Things Since Backroads, and Wildhearts) all of which were very low impact (see their hot 100 peak) despite all of them peaking in the top 2 or #1 on Mediabase. I do think that's part of the reason of the entirely too long chart run. That and country radio being afraid to take a chance on songs until they have enough research to assume it is connecting well (best example of this is Carly's What He Didn't Do, which has been selling/streaming phenominally since released in September, but when sent to radio in June radio was very slow to convert it, until last week, which unnecessarily burned two months of chart time.)
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Aug 22, 2022 8:04:15 GMT -5
It doesn't look like Carrie has been able to pull in new, younger generation fans for a while now. Just look at how badly she struggles on streaming. (And I see no effort from both her or her label to change this)
Combined that with album/singles which haven't been doing as well as her earlier eras and less hype each album cycle, these are clear signs that she has started to enter the legacy act phase.
I don't think Carrie mind this at all though. She seems very comfortable with where she is now, career wise. She doesn't even do as much promo, interviews etc for recent album eras anymore. I missed those days when we get heaps of exclusive interviews and magazine photoshoots, epic music videos, CMA hosting hype etc.
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 22, 2022 8:47:50 GMT -5
As long as she doesn't reach a point where she stops releasing music or takes a long time in between her albums then I'll be happy. I do not want another Trisha Yearwood situation where they can go 10+ years without releasing an album. Gurl I've always feared she'd pull a Faith Hill and go be with her family. lmao
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 22, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -5
As long as she doesn't reach a point where she stops releasing music or takes a long time in between her albums then I'll be happy. I do not want another Trisha Yearwood situation where they can go 10+ years without releasing an album. Gurl I've always feared she'd pull a Faith Hill and go be with her family. lmao Yikes. Carrie is at a similar place, too. Faith was 41 and had released 6 regular albums and a holiday album when she stepped away. Carrie is 39 and has released 7 regular albums, 1 holiday album, and 1 gospel album at this point. Why did you put that in my head? Lol. Meanwhile "GS" has completely lost its bullet at country radio and has been passed by Ingrid Andress' song. It very well may get passed by Morgan Wallen's latest single this week, too.
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