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Post by Ezekiel 23:20–21 on Feb 8, 2023 2:44:02 GMT -5
I saw a twitter thread earlier today about Beyoncé's win in the Dance album category being unfair because even if the album is primarily a dance album, she's essentially a guest to the genre and still a pop artist so her album should have been moved over to the pop category instead. So what that means to me is that an artist must remain in the field in which they are primarily known for, which comes with its own set of problems and limitations. It sucks that the lesser-known names predictably lost to a bigger name, but Beyonce also didn't win all of the genre categories she was listed in (ie, the R&B category) so it's not exactly a shoo-in either. The Dance category has been a hot mess for the last few years with the criteria changing so frequently and that has lead to some WTF nominations and wins. When it was new, it was totally Dance/Electronic focused, then you had a few wins that were not, then some mainstream artists won for a while, then they were literally giving to Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, and Rihanna. Then it was EDM centric for a while.
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¤ Matthea ¤
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Post by ¤ Matthea ¤ on Feb 8, 2023 5:31:30 GMT -5
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 8, 2023 10:30:46 GMT -5
- Any "Best New Artist" outrage is weird. Once they didn't nominate Zach Bryan, this became the year in which you absolutely should have expected a niche/"artist" to win. There was no equivalent to like Olivia Rodrigo, Dua Lipa, Billie Eilish, etc where you had a massive superstar who obviously HAD to win (Zach would have been closest among eligible acts).
Latto was considered the betting favorite due to familiarity - but she only has one song that the average person knows (and let's be real - a good chunk of the ubiquity comes from the sample). Anitta is a global superstar, but she hasn't had anything even close to a US hit (and let's face it, US popularity matters here). In mainstream music terms, Maneskin probably felt like the closest to a "too big for this category" nominee ... but there's a question about whether they're taken seriously (Pitchfork giving them the Greta Van Fleet treatment in the new review confirms this suspicion).
- As for Beyonce/Harry, it's important to remember that while taste can be subjective, so too can "narratives." So many people felt like "Beyonce finally getting her AOTY" would have obviously been the big story, but it was clear others thought the biggest "narrative" would be using this as a way to cement Harry Styles as one of the big stars of our time ... and someone who fully "graduated" from boy band territory. That case becomes more compelling to those who would be thinking about the fact that Beyonce was already likely to break the Grammys win record and thus didn't NEED the added impact of an AOTY win.
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Sugar Rush
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Post by Sugar Rush on Feb 8, 2023 12:25:31 GMT -5
I want to pretence this by saying I wanted Renaissance to win and I love Beyonce.
Sometimes I wonder, if the thing haunting her and preventing her from taking the trophy for AotY home is the unwarranted reputation she has garnered as “not making any changes to demos but still getting song writing/production credits”. We know that there have been some songs that she has recorded which she is credited as a writer for, but the demo is identical. Then there was also the whole fiasco with Irreplaceable which she got publicly called out on.
Asides this though, she is extremely gifted at putting together a cohesive album that shines as a body of art opposed to being tracks thrown together.
I was hoping Bey would finally win, but I feel she may not win at all now or when she does win it’ll be a legacy victory (a la Bonnie Rait).
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Post by theyaintready on Feb 8, 2023 13:54:19 GMT -5
Ultimately Beyonce isn't in bad company. Mariah has only 1 win in the major categories (Best New Artist), Madonna has none in the big 4, Janet has none, Prince had none, Aretha had none, David Bowie none, The Rolling Stones none, etc. Then you have legends like Diana Ross and Queen who never won a Grammy at all. The discussion around 'deserved' gives them way more importance than they should based on their history.
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myhouse911
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Post by myhouse911 on Feb 8, 2023 14:28:47 GMT -5
I want to pretence this by saying I wanted Renaissance to win and I love Beyonce. Sometimes I wonder, if the thing haunting her and preventing her from taking the trophy for AotY home is the unwarranted reputation she has garnered as “not making any changes to demos but still getting song writing/production credits”. We know that there have been some songs that she has recorded which she is credited as a writer for, but the demo is identical. Then there was also the whole fiasco with Irreplaceable which she got publicly called out on. Asides this though, she is extremely gifted at putting together a cohesive album that shines as a body of art opposed to being tracks thrown together. I was hoping Bey would finally win, but I feel she may not win at all now or when she does win it’ll be a legacy victory (a la Bonnie Rait). You're seemingly contradicting yourself in the bold. It's clearly warranted when it is a trend with her. That is exactly why she does not receive the most general field support. It is a miracle she won SOTY for Single Ladies, of all tracks. Also, Bonnie Raitt is an AOTY winner/multi-nominee, when she wasn't a legacy act. So, are you referring to her SOTY win? Bonnie is not known for her songwriting, hence her lack of nominations until now. Don't underestimate the voting blocks of writers and musicians.
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Sugar Rush
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Post by Sugar Rush on Feb 8, 2023 15:22:00 GMT -5
I want to pretence this by saying I wanted Renaissance to win and I love Beyonce. Sometimes I wonder, if the thing haunting her and preventing her from taking the trophy for AotY home is the unwarranted reputation she has garnered as “not making any changes to demos but still getting song writing/production credits”. We know that there have been some songs that she has recorded which she is credited as a writer for, but the demo is identical. Then there was also the whole fiasco with Irreplaceable which she got publicly called out on. Asides this though, she is extremely gifted at putting together a cohesive album that shines as a body of art opposed to being tracks thrown together. I was hoping Bey would finally win, but I feel she may not win at all now or when she does win it’ll be a legacy victory (a la Bonnie Rait). You're seemingly contradicting yourself in the bold. It's clearly warranted when it is a trend with her. That is exactly why she does not receive the most general field support. It is a miracle she won SOTY for Single Ladies, of all tracks. Also, Bonnie Raitt is an AOTY winner/multi-nominee, when she wasn't a legacy act. So, are you referring to her SOTY win? Bonnie is not known for her songwriting, hence her lack of nominations until now. Don't underestimate the voting blocks of writers and musicians. I wasn’t trying to offend anyone, so I apologize… What I was getting at, Beyoncé can still put a good body of art together - and regardless of her overall input the vision, creativity, cohesion, is all top tier. Literally the only thing I think preventing her from winning, despite putting the best album out year after year, is the reputation she acquired for a few songs that she really shouldn’t have credits on. As for Bonnie Rait I know she won previously, but this recent SotY almost just felt like a “okay here’s one final year of awards for you”. It was a shock she won, and she’s a pioneer of music - especially acts that came out in the 90s - but it certainly did not feel SotY worthy.
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myhouse911
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Post by myhouse911 on Feb 8, 2023 16:41:05 GMT -5
You're seemingly contradicting yourself in the bold. It's clearly warranted when it is a trend with her. That is exactly why she does not receive the most general field support. It is a miracle she won SOTY for Single Ladies, of all tracks. Also, Bonnie Raitt is an AOTY winner/multi-nominee, when she wasn't a legacy act. So, are you referring to her SOTY win? Bonnie is not known for her songwriting, hence her lack of nominations until now. Don't underestimate the voting blocks of writers and musicians. I wasn’t trying to offend anyone, so I apologize… What I was getting at, Beyoncé can still put a good body of art together - and regardless of her overall input the vision, creativity, cohesion, is all top tier. Literally the only thing I think preventing her from winning, despite putting the best album out year after year, is the reputation she acquired for a few songs that she really shouldn’t have credits on. As for Bonnie Rait I know she won previously, but this recent SotY almost just felt like a “okay here’s one final year of awards for you”. It was a shock she won, and she’s a pioneer of music - especially acts that came out in the 90s - but it certainly did not feel SotY worthy. Wasn't offended at all. However, it's not a few songs, Beyonce has writing credits galore that are not warranted. And it's not just Beyonce, so many big artists do it, and get away with it because of their status. Bonnie Raitt may be a shock win for some, but she was the sole writer on her song, inspired by Jon Prine, so she had the narrative to get votes from multiple genres. The only shock i would have had for SOTY was if that abcdefu song won.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Feb 8, 2023 20:07:00 GMT -5
Screaming at the closed captions just being [SINGING IN NON-ENGLISH] EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?! 😭 Spotify noticed too and made a playlist off of it I'm dead 💀
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Feb 9, 2023 9:44:32 GMT -5
Came to mention a moment I forgot to mention during the live telecast.
I LOL'd so hard when Song of The Year was described as excellence in songwriting and about great lyricism and songcraft, etc. and then the first song to be announced as a nominee was "ABCEDFU." :kii:
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Post by The Music Man on Feb 9, 2023 15:04:37 GMT -5
I LOL'd so hard when Song of The Year was described as excellence in songwriting and about great lyricism and songcraft, etc. and then the first song to be announced as a nominee was "ABCEDFU." :kii: I caught that too, and was very much hoping that the First Lady would have to announce it as the winner.
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rnb
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Post by rnb on Feb 9, 2023 15:23:15 GMT -5
Screaming at the closed captions just being [SINGING IN NON-ENGLISH] EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?! 😭 Spotify noticed too and made a playlist off of it I'm dead 💀 iconic honestly
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Feb 9, 2023 23:24:39 GMT -5
Meanwhile, it's cool to see Lizzo say she works to improve her talent: This is a very refreshing take and for an artist of her status to acknowledge it publicly is rare (and very much welcomed)! I noticed it as well during the performance. She was so much more in control and picked her moments correctly.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Feb 10, 2023 7:10:57 GMT -5
I saw many people dismissing Harry's victory as predictable/safe as he's just a white male and those always win. Then I took a look at previous winners and I was very surprised to notice that in the last two decades Beck was the only solo white male to win AOTY. Five POC solo men won in the same time frame. It's funny that we all have this idea that white men are always taking the trophy when the data actually tells a different story. And it's also interesting how the situation reverses when we talk about females. Multiple white women took AOTY in the last two decades while no black woman did it. But then, aside from Beyoncé, was any other black female even expected to take the trophy any of those years at all?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 10, 2023 9:40:15 GMT -5
I saw many people dismissing Harry's victory as predictable/safe as he's just a white male and those always win. Then I took a look at previous winners and I was very surprised to notice that in the last two decades Beck was the only solo white male to win AOTY. Five POC solo men won in the same time frame. It's funny that we all have this idea that white men are always taking the trophy when the data actually tells a different story. And it's also interesting how the situation reverses when we talk about females. Multiple white women took AOTY in the last two decades while no black woman did it. But then, aside from Beyoncé, was any other black female even expected to take the trophy any of those years at all? Mariah Carey was at least in the conversation to win AOTY for The Emancipation of Mimi, if not the favorite (and of course was expected to win at least one of the big ones but went 0-for-3 to white male rockers in all 3). It's a bit tougher to say the last few years because with so many nominees, there is less of a sense of favorite. Lizzo was at least in the conversation a few years ago, as people weren't sure if it would be her big night or Billie's. We know how that went (not criticizing Billie there, just saying). It's interesting to me because it's almost like each of the main categories is different (has different patterns), even though the same people vote for all of them. You've mentioned some AOTY stuff. In the past 20 years it's somewhat common for the Best New Artist winner to come from R&B, hip-hop, jazz, etc (see Chance the Rapper, Esperanza Spalding, Megan Thee Stallion, John Legend, Samara Joy). You don't see that in AOTY, ROTY, or SOTY across that time stretch. "This is America" was the first and only hip-hop song to win a major Grammy. It's then common for 'legends' and 'country' music to get in SOTY, but not in ROTY (see Bonnie Raitt's nom/win for SOTY but wasn't in ROTY, Tanya Tucker's song from a couple years ago, two Carrie Underwood songs, Luther Vandross' win, "The House that Built Me," "Girl Crush," "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning," and even "I Can't Breathe" which won SOTY but didn't get in ROTY). I kind of like this in the sense that it shows they may actually recognize SOTY is different from ROTY, but some of the decisions are still odd.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Feb 10, 2023 17:14:03 GMT -5
Bigger issue at this point is just the abysmal record in the AOTY category for women of color. You have to go back to the 90s to find the last winner, and that’s after more than 2 decades of getting groundbreaking work from the likes of Beyoncé, Mariah Carey, Rihanna, Mary J. Blige, Alicia Keys, Sade, Janelle Monae, Missy Elliott, etc.
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