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Post by Push The Button on Jun 27, 2024 14:50:52 GMT -5
okay but speaking of her ballads justice for Thinking Of You because goddamn that song still goes so hard SO. GOOD. I loved her debut album so much.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Jun 27, 2024 15:41:09 GMT -5
One of my top songs of 2023
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Jun 27, 2024 18:18:17 GMT -5
stan twitter: TEENAGE DREAM is a pop bible! One of the greatest eras of pop music. also stan twitter: Dr Luke produced Katy's lead? we don't want it, she can keep it.
there's a difference, yeah, TD was before the lawsuit and everything, but still....... or it doesn't count because Katy's 80% of huge hits, Kesha's hits, Party In The USA, Wrecking Ball, Behind These Hazel Eyes, Since U Been Gone, Hold It Against Me, Till The World Ends, Circus, Marina's Primadonna, Where Have U Been, Price Tag, Domino, Who Knew, Girlfriend...came out before?
It's really fine to be confused, dissapointed, or whatever about her decision, but people always seem to overreact when it comes to Katy.
also this:
it surfaced because Quavo announced a new collab with Lana, and no one really cares.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 27, 2024 19:37:34 GMT -5
It's really fine to be confused, dissapointed, or whatever about her decision, but people always seem to overreact when it comes to Katy. Tbh I don't think Katy's being treated or held to any standard any other big female pop star would be held to. Would any other huge pop female artist get away with the collab without criticism? I know Kim Petras whose a much smaller artist received a lot of flack for it. Could you even imagine the bloodbath that would ensue if Taylor collabed with him? Hell Taylor herself caught a lot of heat for working with the director of Amsterdam due to his prior sexual misconducts as well. Female pop stars generally have a very progressive/forward-thinking/woke audience so this kind of scrutiny, I think, should be expected? Maybe I'm just not seeing the unfair or disproportionate criticisms some have mentioned as I don't frequent Twitter as it's a cesspool and is generally overreactive about any and everything. It certainly hasn't been unfair here.
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Coco
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Post by Coco on Jun 27, 2024 20:05:33 GMT -5
"Katy Perry gets asked by fans on why she is working with Dr. Luke while entering her car."
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jun 27, 2024 21:16:50 GMT -5
It's really fine to be confused, dissapointed, or whatever about her decision, but people always seem to overreact when it comes to Katy. Tbh I don't think Katy's being treated or held to any standard any other big female pop star would be held to. Would any other huge pop female artist get away with the collab without criticism? I know Kim Petras whose a much smaller artist received a lot of flack for it. Could you even imagine the bloodbath that would ensue if Taylor collabed with him? Hell Taylor herself caught a lot of heat for working with the director of Amsterdam due to his prior sexual misconducts as well. Female pop stars generally have a very progressive/forward-thinking/woke audience so this kind of scrutiny, I think, should be expected? Maybe I'm just not seeing the unfair or disproportionate criticisms some have mentioned as I don't frequent Twitter as it's a cesspool and is generally overreactive about any and everything. It certainly hasn't been unfair here. To be honest it just makes me reflect... almost every notable Pop girl in recent times has been criticized for their association with a problematic man by Pop stans. I'm not saying it is completely wrong, that I don't see the logic in calling it out at times, or I haven't done so myself. However does a precedent of frequently attacking a woman for what a man did eventually tread towards pushing traditional misogyny lol? Especially when you consider a large amount of the fans that criticize are (gay) men. It is men who criticize women for what a man did. In addition outside of Pulse and moreso in the social media settings, it usually is done particularly for the sake of stan wars where you can make the opposing artist out to be a person (or feel justified in hating them) by bringing up what a man they associated with did. There is people who have already decided they will boycott Woman's World and KP6 because of Dr. Luke's association, but still listen to other music (past and present hits) in which he was apart of. At that point you're boycotting Katy more than you are Dr. Luke for what Dr. Luke did? How is a feminist-stance to specficially stand against only a woman for something a man did in which she had no involvement?
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 27, 2024 22:03:17 GMT -5
However does a precedent of frequently attacking a woman for what a man did eventually tread towards pushing traditional misogyny lol? Calling attention to a questionable decision and/or questioning the choice to associate with and the hypocrisy of championing a notoriously problematic (against women, no less) character when you're pushing a female-empowernment anthem lead era no less isn't misogynist or "attacking" (definitely some hyperbole going on here). I really don't understand all the pearl clutching at people holding Katy accountable. Especially on a forum and from the very same people who've had no issue criticizing other female artists in the exact same fashion for much less. It's confounding at this point. No one here has been wildly hateful toward her, about her, or to others in reference of her. The discussions have been calm, respectful, and typical of what would be expected, yet some are acting as if people have gone above and beyond unreasonably to demean her and have started championing for her demise and burning her albums when in actuality it feels as if they just can't handle her being criticized on any level. No one is blaming Katy for Luke's actions (literally haven't seen one person do so). They're criticizing her choice to associate with him, regardless of his character, his sordid history with fellow female artists, all for the sake of potential commercial success. It's so flippin odd to see how sensitive, apparently, the conversation around Katy is. I dunno these gay men, so I can't speak on that. I'm a trans woman speaking on another woman, so I can't relate to that specific angle in all this. This seems more like an assumption than facts as how would you even gather this information? Did you survey every person who criticized Katy's playlists? Look, I know some of y'all feel as if none of this warrants the least bit of criticism for Katy, but you need to realize that not everyone feels the same and they are perfectly in their rights to feel the way they do and to express it openly, as long as it is in a respectful manner. They aren't just "hating on Katy to hate on Katy". There are legitimate and valid reasons for her recent critcisms.
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Coco
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Post by Coco on Jun 27, 2024 22:05:06 GMT -5
I think it can be both bad to blame KP for what Dr Luke did but it's also perfectly acceptable to question why a woman would seek out a rapist and overall shitty man when there is a gazillion producers out there and why she knows the backlash she will receive and she has attached herself to this in this climate .
A) Katy is using negative publicity as a means of gaining promo. B) Katy believes Kesha is a liar and that Dr Luke is innocent C) Katy is insecure as an artist and believes her only success can come from Luke D) Katy knows Dr Luke is guilty but has no morals and character and is willing to work with anyone for a hit
None of these are good. However it's perfectly fine to question it and be authentic and call it what is a trash move on her part and still root for her as a fan and like the song.
The truth is the truth and isn't based on emotion.
The hypocrisy for me is seeing people who have criticized others for working with Chris Brown or listening to his music etc and yet cause they Stan KP are okay with her working with Dr Luke. Can't have it both ways
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jun 28, 2024 2:02:48 GMT -5
I think it can be both bad to blame KP for what Dr Luke did but it's also perfectly acceptable to question why a woman would seek out a rapist and overall shitty man when there is a gazillion producers out there and why she knows the backlash she will receive and she has attached herself to this in this climate . A) Katy is using negative publicity as a means of gaining promo. B) Katy believes Kesha is a liar and that Dr Luke is innocent C) Katy is insecure as an artist and believes her only success can come from Luke D) Katy knows Dr Luke is guilty but has no morals and character and is willing to work with anyone for a hit None of these are good. However it's perfectly fine to question it and be authentic and call it what is a trash move on her part and still root for her as a fan and like the song. The truth is the truth and isn't based on emotion. I guess Gary Glitter wasn't available, she had to settle with the second best.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 28, 2024 12:14:29 GMT -5
These women use Female Empowerment and Feminism as marketing tools and then do the exact opposite behind the scenes. People are right to call them out and they're big enough to take the blow. It's good that people call out the hipocrisy,even if it ultimately leads to nothing of consequence.
The thing about Katy is that her career was on shaky ground I do not know why they felt the need to take a risk on former Pulse member Lukasz Gottwald again.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 28, 2024 13:19:52 GMT -5
I do not know why they felt the need to take a risk on former Pulse member Lukasz Gottwald again. OMG. I had forgotten all about that period! lol Didn't people end up arguing with him/hating him on here too? 🤣
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Juanca
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Post by Juanca on Jun 28, 2024 13:35:02 GMT -5
I do not know why they felt the need to take a risk on former Pulse member Lukasz Gottwald again. OMG. I had forgotten all about that period! lol Didn't people end up arguing with him/hating him on here too? 🤣 Iirc, it was more that he couldn’t take any criticism or questioning and would find excuses and then deride fans or tell us we were clueless and didn’t know how music business worked, etc.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 28, 2024 16:52:15 GMT -5
He left around the time Katy debuted IKAG, so it was little before my time, but man's been a mess forever. There are also videos of Kelly Clarkson saying he's an asshole and if I had to trust one person in the entire industry, Kelly Clarkson is one of the best choices.
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Jun 28, 2024 19:41:54 GMT -5
I think it can be both bad to blame KP for what Dr Luke did but it's also perfectly acceptable to question why a woman would seek out a rapist and overall shitty man when there is a gazillion producers out there and why she knows the backlash she will receive and she has attached herself to this in this climate . A) Katy is using negative publicity as a means of gaining promo. B) Katy believes Kesha is a liar and that Dr Luke is innocent C) Katy is insecure as an artist and believes her only success can come from Luke D) Katy knows Dr Luke is guilty but has no morals and character and is willing to work with anyone for a hit None of these are good. However it's perfectly fine to question it and be authentic and call it what is a trash move on her part and still root for her as a fan and like the song. I think she probably waited for their settlement and thought people wouldn't react like this - especially because there were many artists who didn't wait and successfully collabed with him during that period. This is on another level because of Katy's and Kesha's history/friendship, plus given the situation, that title is a choice, ngl. Also, I think your C option is valid. A lot of artists have their safe zone (Tayor and Jack Antonoff, Billie and Finneas, Olivia Rodrigo and Daniel Nigro...) and DrL and Max Martin are Katy's, 100% - they know her sensibility best and she can trust them, after all, Max is behind 12/14 Katy's top 10s and DrL 11, and both 8/9 for #1s. Taylor, Billie and Olivia are in position to get a hit without their main producers if they want, and Katy probably isn't confident - which is understandable since her last top 10 was a Max Martin song...and you can tell she wants success again with KP6, so DrL/Max was a logical step for her. We'll see if it works, but she definitely didn't need him and this hate train.
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Dammn Baby
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Post by Dammn Baby on Jun 28, 2024 21:00:59 GMT -5
These women use Female Empowerment and Feminism as marketing tools and then do the exact opposite behind the scenes. People are right to call them out and they're big enough to take the blow. It's good that people call out the hipocrisy,even if it ultimately leads to nothing of consequence. The thing about Katy is that her career was on shaky ground I do not know why they felt the need to take a risk on former Pulse member Lukasz Gottwald again. Maybe the answer could be that she is entirely dependent on her collaborators and there isn't much to her outside of Dr. Luke.
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lazer
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Post by lazer on Jun 29, 2024 1:21:51 GMT -5
Even if she worked with Dr Luke, the snippet I heard so far sounds so uninspired and bland.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jun 29, 2024 1:45:00 GMT -5
Never Really Over (without the Doctor) reached #19 on Hot 100 and I would think that Woman's World is not going to go much higher than that - would all of this backlash be worth it then? I think it's a valid question, unless she has a top 5 smash in her hands which I think is very doubtful.
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Music Fan
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Post by Music Fan on Jun 29, 2024 2:20:50 GMT -5
Literally, the "backlash" is very minimal outside stan twitter and places like pulse. If the song doesn't go higher than Not Really Over, it's because it didn't connect with the general audience and not because Dr. Luke was involved.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 29, 2024 8:27:54 GMT -5
Literally, the "backlash" is very minimal outside stan twitter and places like pulse. If the song doesn't go higher than Not Really Over, it's because it didn't connect with the general audience and not because Dr. Luke was involved. I've seen it all over my TikTok and it's all in her Instagram comments too btw. But yes, it's only affecting her reputation around certain communities (those in the know). Tbh I don't see "Woman's World" being huge just because it sounds dated and bland from the clips I've heard, but time will tell. Regardless, I know the album will have bangers so I'm ready. :)
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Jun 29, 2024 8:31:28 GMT -5
Literally, the "backlash" is very minimal outside stan twitter and places like pulse. Exactly. Her streaming numbers are soaring across the board and all Dr. Luke tracks.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 29, 2024 8:35:14 GMT -5
Literally, the "backlash" is very minimal outside stan twitter and places like pulse. Exactly. Her streaming numbers are soaring across the board and all Dr. Luke tracks. Fairly certain the Dr. Luke tracks wouldn't be "soaring" because of Dr. Luke and more likely because he produced her biggest hits and people aren't aware of his involvement on speciifc songs. This narrative is humorous tho. lol What are the percentages?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 29, 2024 9:32:42 GMT -5
There's a very possible answer too... people might really not care. Honestly can't blame them. Ethical consumption is a myth and I can't fault anyone for wanting to hear some fun pop throwbacks when we just recovered from a pandemic and Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the only two US president choices for the next four years
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jun 29, 2024 9:35:48 GMT -5
But if it's too similar to TD era, people will rather stick to certified bops like Last Friday Night or Teenage Dream. Oh well, we'll see how it turns out in a couple of weeks.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 29, 2024 9:56:50 GMT -5
OMG. I had forgotten all about that period! lol Didn't people end up arguing with him/hating him on here too? 🤣 Iirc, it was more that he couldn’t take any criticism or questioning and would find excuses and then deride fans or tell us we were clueless and didn’t know how music business worked, etc. That’s how I remember it lol. He was an ass on here too.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 29, 2024 10:08:53 GMT -5
There's a very possible answer too... people might really not care. Honestly can't blame them. Ethical consumption is a myth and I can't fault anyone for wanting to hear some fun pop throwbacks when we just recovered from a pandemic and Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the only two US president choices for the next four years This is very true. Tbh that's why I'm personally looking forward to the album myself. It'll be nice to just hear some mindless pop bangers for a change in such a depressing/stressful climate! Any escape the public has at this stage is much needed. lol
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Jun 29, 2024 11:07:28 GMT -5
Thread on the details of a KP6 listening party:
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wavey.✨️
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Post by wavey.✨️ on Jun 29, 2024 11:53:06 GMT -5
One of the tweets I liked describing the sound/single/album: And the tour mention?! wjr15
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Jun 29, 2024 12:05:11 GMT -5
And the tour mention?! wjr15We will be there!
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Post by Push The Button on Jun 29, 2024 12:09:59 GMT -5
I mean, the way we feel about him aside, Luke isn't R. Kelly. He hasn't been convicted of a crime. He is no different than the other predators who infest the entertainment industry who get work every single day. If we're not going to get mad at all of the other people who work with those men, we gotta let this go too.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 29, 2024 13:51:48 GMT -5
I mean, the way we feel about him aside, Luke isn't R. Kelly. He hasn't been convicted of a crime. He is no different than the other predators who infest the entertainment industry who get work every single day. If we're not going to get mad at all of the other people who work with those men, we gotta let this go too. Posts like these are so odd to me. Actually the reaction from her fans to those having genuine concerns and criticisms for Katy pairing with him are also so so odd to me. I had no idea Katy's fans were this incredibly sensitive to criticism, especially when it's actually valid criticism for a change as opposed to the insanely unjustified ways she's been dragged to hell and back the last few years for much less. From my knowledge, other artists of prominence working with Luke have been criticized just as much. In no way is this a Katy only phenomenon, nor is she being singled out. Kim Petras took her fair share of criticism for the exact same thing and her star is MUCH smaller. But this whole notion, that unless people are tracking down each and every accused sex offender within the industry and speaking out against any and every artist and time said offenders are utilized in any capacity or don't speak out at all is ridiculous and would be impossible. Most artists aren't at Katy's level of notoriety, nor are most offenders as well-known and as publicized as Dr. Luke (nor are most offender's victims as high profile as Kesha). If anything, the fans seeing this criticism as an injustice or unjustfied are the ones who are being unreasonable and not those who take issue with their pairing.
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