Billboard Hot 100: 12/10/2022

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Dec 1, 2022 12:34:24 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I wouldn't say Taylor is the most dominant any female artist has ever been...sure she got a 1M+ album and the entire top ten...but different era. I'm sure if streaming was in the 60s-90s The Supremes, Madonna, Janet, Mariah, or Whitney maybe even Barbra would've done the same.

And back on how huge era's feel it definitely won't and doesn't feel as huge as most of the artists era's I mentioned before hand.

Well as you said: different era. What's huge now is gonna be gauged differently. Plus the album's only been out for 2 months so we don't know how huge the longevity will be.

[badrobot]

Dec 1, 2022 12:34:24 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I wouldn't say Taylor is the most dominant any female artist has ever been...sure she got a 1M+ album and the entire top ten...but different era. I'm sure if streaming was in the 60s-90s The Supremes, Madonna, Janet, Mariah, or Whitney maybe even Barbra would've done the same.

And back on how huge era's feel it definitely won't and doesn't feel as huge as most of the artists era's I mentioned before hand.

In the context of the charts, Taylor is easily the most dominant any female artist has ever been. That's pretty much an objective fact. Yes, the charts are different now than they used to be, but the record books don't care if it was 1964 or 2022.

You could make some arguments that culturally, other women have been bigger or at least had bigger eras -- but tbh, I think even outside of the charts, Taylor probably still is the most dominant. I say this as someone who is by no means a Swiftie. Certainly the current technological/media/social environment is much more favorable to mega-huge stars than it was in the past, but the Taylor Cinematic Universe is undeniably massive.

[explicit]

Dec 1, 2022 13:24:54 GMT -5 badrobot said:

Dec 1, 2022 12:34:24 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I wouldn't say Taylor is the most dominant any female artist has ever been...sure she got a 1M+ album and the entire top ten...but different era. I'm sure if streaming was in the 60s-90s The Supremes, Madonna, Janet, Mariah, or Whitney maybe even Barbra would've done the same.

And back on how huge era's feel it definitely won't and doesn't feel as huge as most of the artists era's I mentioned before hand.

In the context of the charts, Taylor is easily the most dominant any female artist has ever been. That's pretty much an objective fact. Yes, the charts are different now than they used to be, but the record books don't care if it was 1964 or 2022.

You could make some arguments that culturally, other women have been bigger or at least had bigger eras -- but tbh, I think even outside of the charts, Taylor probably still is the most dominant. I say this as someone who is by no means a Swiftie. Certainly the current technological/media/social environment is much more favorable to mega-huge stars than it was in the past, but the Taylor Cinematic Universe is undeniably massive.

It was impossible before the digital and streaming era to dominate like that, or to chart every track of an album in the Hot 100 but... if you ask me of a woman dominating in the old era, I can think of Whitney Houston during the Bodyguard era.... 3 singles at the same time in the Top 11 and the album selling bucks of physical copies.

Hot 100 March 13 1993
#5 I'm every woman
#7 I will always love you *already 4 platinum, it was the only woman who scored a 4 times platinum singles based only in physical sales
#11 I have nothing

Billboard 200
#2 The Bodyguard soundtrack falling from #1 after 13 consecutive weeks atop * already 7 platinum in 4 months 

[Choco]

Taylor has had 12 straight albums of sales dominance. Even the one that didn't reach #1 outsold most people's #1 album. I can't think of anyone with that kind of sustained dominance. Even someone like Madonna had some projects clearly miss the mark she usually hit during her heyday. And people like Michael Jackson released way too few albums to compare.

[ificanthaveyou]

Dec 1, 2022 10:02:41 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Dec 1, 2022 1:43:52 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

For all the crybabies constantly putting Taylor down for her promo techniques… name a female artist who on the verge of 33 was still dominating the charts like she is. In an ageist and sexist industry, she is refusing to be quieted against all odds. Can’t y’all take a second and appreciate it?

I think it’s quite pathetic to watch her be so desperate to be #1. But congrats!

She didn’t even release new remixes. Just made them available for sale again on her website.

[Choco]

Ok but where's Mariah's team? Drop a single CD or something queen. She was the queen of the chart tactics before Taylor was even 3 years old.

Tbqh I understand the Anti Hero complains but the competition is old ass songs that clog up the chart every year. They'll also have a shot next week (and next year, and the next, and the ne...). The least boring outcome would be Brenda Lee getting her third #1 hit at age 77 with a song recorded when she was 13. That's technically both one of the youngest and oldest female to hit #1.

[Private Dancer]

Even when Madonna did miss the mark Madonna still sold very well. Again, it's the different eras back in Madonna's and Micheal era's artist would work an era for about 1 1/2-3 years. There was no releasing multiple albums within a year and if they did release a live version of sort's in the same year it was not a mega seller. Also, Taylor has the advantage of the streaming era where you can drop multiple albums a year and it costs your fanbase and other little to nothing to stream it and the streams get counted as sales. Whereas, back in the day of MJ and Madonna that was disastrous because you had to go to the store and buy the records and it would cost people money. I know Taylor has released a lot of albums back to back recently and I'm referring to that. So streaming era level of sales dominace is very different from physical era sales of dominance. I will say for the streaming era, she is no doubt the most successful of this era.

[Choco]

I don't disagree with your points but look at the way Taylor is selling physicals even in 2022. She has even surpassed Adele's most recent album. If we assume Madonna and MJ would have done better on the singles chart with streaming and non singles charting and the like there's no reason Taylor wouldn't have sold 5m opening week back in the 1990s climate.

It's all speculation in the end, and hard to accurately compare. The fact that Taylor can even be in the same sentence as MJ, Madonna and the like without it being a joke is a testament to how well she's been doing regardless of who was "bigger".

[badrobot]

Dec 1, 2022 15:06:39 GMT -5 Choco said:

I don't disagree with your points but look at the way Taylor is selling physicals even in 2022. She has even surpassed Adele's most recent album. If we assume Madonna and MJ would have done better on the singles chart with streaming and non singles charting and the like there's no reason Taylor wouldn't have sold 5m opening week back in the 1990s climate.

It's all speculation in the end, and hard to accurately compare. The fact that Taylor can even be in the same sentence as MJ, Madonna and the like without it being a joke is a testament to how well she's been doing regardless of who was "bigger".

Exactly.

I think some folks feel like this is implying Taylor is *better* than these other artists or something, which is subjective. This about chart dominance, album sales, etc., where her dominance seems pretty hard to deny.

[Private Dancer]

Dec 1, 2022 14:57:23 GMT -5 Choco said:

Ok but where's Mariah's team? Drop a single CD or something queen. She was the queen of the chart tactics before Taylor was even 3 years old.

Tbqh I understand the Anti Hero complains but the competition is old ass songs that clog up the chart every year. They'll also have a shot next week (and next year, and the next, and the ne...). The least boring outcome would be Brenda Lee getting her third #1 hit at age 77 with a song recorded when she was 13. That's technically both one of the youngest and oldest female to hit #1.

I wouldn't say Mariah is the Queen of chart tactics. Only her's got exposed and people tend to focus on her because of her success.

And Mariah is definitely not the Queen of chart tactics. There is other female artist who used to manipulate the charts

[otaviohmg]

Nov 28, 2022 15:41:42 GMT -5 otaviohmg said:

December's Top Chart Run be like: All I Want For Christmas It's Me, Hi / I'm The Christmas, It's Me

I don't want a lot for Anti-Hero
There is just 13 weeks I need

[GW]

The way all these chart-obsessed people in here are obsessing over Taylor being chart-obsessed is sending me. If the charts mean as much as you all make them out to, then why is anyone mad that she's playing the game to maximize her chart positions?

It's likely the same people that say "xx needs to discount NOW" that are mad that Taylor is doing what it takes to remain at #1 while she can? As if there should be a limit in the spirit of fairness? It's like you want someone to succeed, but then ok, that's enough. She needs to be stopped. She's got too many fans willing to support her. Shut that shit down. Do you all hear yourselves?

I could care less who is on top these days, but damn, Taylor has a massive following who is willing to support her and her music, and a label that obviously wants to maximize that potential. GOOD ON THEM.

But please continue to twist yourselves into knots crying about the girl boss's ability to run the charts for an extended period of time. She isn't the first and won't be the last.

[Private Dancer]

I'm not sure about Taylor and these discounts I've been hearing about...but only thing I'm saying is Taylor success can't be compared/shouldn't be compared to others before her who were successful in a different era. I'm not mad at her being successful, (there was no implications of me being mad) but it just shouldn't be compared to Madonna, Micheal Jackson etc...

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Dec 1, 2022 15:43:32 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I'm not sure about Taylor and these discounts I've been hearing about...but only thing I'm saying is Taylor success can't be compared/shouldn't be compared to others before her who were successful in a different era. I'm not mad at her being successful, (there was no implications of me being mad) but it just shouldn't be compared to Madonna, Micheal Jackson etc...

But why?

[Private Dancer]

Dec 1, 2022 15:52:07 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Dec 1, 2022 15:43:32 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I'm not sure about Taylor and these discounts I've been hearing about...but only thing I'm saying is Taylor success can't be compared/shouldn't be compared to others before her who were successful in a different era. I'm not mad at her being successful, (there was no implications of me being mad) but it just shouldn't be compared to Madonna, Micheal Jackson etc...

But why?

Refer to previous paragraphs where I stated why and also gave Taylor her flowers 🥰

[thegreatdivine]

Dec 1, 2022 1:43:52 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

For all the crybabies constantly putting Taylor down for her promo techniques… name a female artist who on the verge of 33 was still dominating the charts like she is. In an ageist and sexist industry, she is refusing to be quieted against all odds. Can’t y’all take a second and appreciate it?

Cue random Swiftie rushing to defend Taylor like she's the feminist/anti-sexist warrior wonder woman whose chart manipulation tactics should be seen as some huge favor to women all over the world 💀💀💀

It's either that or y'all play the victim card where the whole world/every man in the industry is against her and she has to fight through a mountain of adversity to be successful lmao.

Yes, the music industry is sexist and ageist but it's extremely disingenuous acting like 32 is anywhere close to when the industry generally moves on from female artists, especially those with an established fan base and who know how to navigate within the industry. We have dozens of examples of women from this decade and the decade before that and the decade before that and the decade before that who saw high levels of continued success deep into their 30s and even well into their 40s. Not to add to the fact that there's absolutely nothing that suggests that Taylor won't keep seeing continued success even till the end of the 2020s decade.

Posts like this always make me laugh. Now I'm upset with myself for not visiting this thread earlier lol.

Anyways, congratulations to Taylor as always on the success 😉

[Choco]

Dec 1, 2022 15:22:31 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

Dec 1, 2022 14:57:23 GMT -5 Choco said:

Ok but where's Mariah's team? Drop a single CD or something queen. She was the queen of the chart tactics before Taylor was even 3 years old.

Tbqh I understand the Anti Hero complains but the competition is old ass songs that clog up the chart every year. They'll also have a shot next week (and next year, and the next, and the ne...). The least boring outcome would be Brenda Lee getting her third #1 hit at age 77 with a song recorded when she was 13. That's technically both one of the youngest and oldest female to hit #1.

I wouldn't say Mariah is the Queen of chart tactics. Only her's got exposed and people tend to focus on her because of her success.

And Mariah is definitely not the Queen of chart tactics. There is other female artist who used to manipulate the charts

But why do you feel like using chart tactics is wrong or evil or something though? It wasn't shade towards Mariah. Her team was savvy like that.

When people talk about Mariah having 19 #1 singles, very few if any will even bring, up say, her discounts or when she repressed Touch My Body from iTunes until it was high enough on radio to jump to #1. No one cares just like very few people will even remember there's a Bleachers remix of Anti-Hero.

My point is Mariah's team would make this more interesting with some sort of push. But tbh the song reportedly makes 2.5m dollars each year on it's own, why waste resources on a chart battle when it already prints money regardless of it being #3 or #1 this week. I can see why they wouldn't bother.

I don't get why feminism or woke arguments apply here? Females did have a tough time hitting #1 this year (wasn't Special the first #1 of the year for a lady on the BB200 in July? damn). Let's be honest Taylor and her label only care about keeping her at the top spot (that's basically the label's job, no?) whether that's blocking Drake or Brenda Lee is irrelevant to them. Just like Mariah's label won't give up just to give Brenda Lee a consolation week if given the chance.

[Private Dancer]

Dec 1, 2022 16:06:41 GMT -5 Choco said:

Dec 1, 2022 15:22:31 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

I wouldn't say Mariah is the Queen of chart tactics. Only her's got exposed and people tend to focus on her because of her success.

And Mariah is definitely not the Queen of chart tactics. There is other female artist who used to manipulate the charts

But why do you feel like using chart tactics is wrong or evil or something though? It wasn't shade towards Mariah. Her team was savvy like that.

When people talk about Mariah having 19 #1 singles, very few if any will even bring, up say, her discounts or when she repressed Touch My Body from iTunes until it was high enough on radio to jump to #1. No one cares just like very few people will even remember there's a Bleachers remix of Anti-Hero.

My point is Mariah's team would make this more interesting with some sort of push. But tbh the song reportedly makes 2.5m dollars each year on it's own, why waste resources on a chart battle when it already prints money regardless of it being #3 or #1 this week. I can see why they wouldn't bother.

I don't get why feminism or woke arguments apply here? Females did have a tough time hitting #1 this year (wasn't Special the first #1 of the year for a lady on the BB200 in July? damn). Let's be honest Taylor and her label only care about keeping her at the top spot (that's basically the label's job, no?) whether that's blocking Drake or Brenda Lee is irrelevant to them. Just like Mariah's label won't give up just to give Brenda Lee a consolation week if given the chance.

Nowhere did I state that I said chart tactics was wrong or evil because if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing. You said Queen which means a woman and that's why I said women...if you said King I would said men...i think my post came off the wrong way...but I will say I do want Mariah to use every chart tactic in the book to keep Brenda out of #1 and dethrone the current #1 

[renfield75]

Was Michael bigger than the Beatles? Was Madonna bigger than the Supremes? Was Beyoncé bigger than Mariah? At a point it's honestly all kind of irrelevant. They were all the most dominant, game-changing artists of their eras and still stand as the most successful, revered artists in history. Their cultural impact and artistic contributions speak for themselves. Taylor and Drake are those dominant artists right now, and there's no denying their place among the greats of all time.

Beyond that it's just splitting hairs..."Drake has more top ten hits!" "Taylor sold more albums!" "Mariah has more number ones!" "Beyoncé has more Grammys!". The garden is big enough for ALL of them to have their flowers.

[Choco]

Dec 1, 2022 16:12:58 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

Nowhere did I state that I said chart tactics was wrong or evil because if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing. You said Queen which means a woman and that's why I said women...if you said King I would said men...i think my post came off the wrong way...but I will say I do want Mariah to use every chart tactic in the book to keep Brenda out of #1 and dethrone the current #1 

I feel like ultimately we agree. I just said Queen because let's be honest no one gamed the charts so easily and publicly like she did during the 90s. And that wasn't wrong.

[Private Dancer]

Dec 1, 2022 16:21:13 GMT -5 Choco said:

Dec 1, 2022 16:12:58 GMT -5 Private Dancer said:

Nowhere did I state that I said chart tactics was wrong or evil because if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing. You said Queen which means a woman and that's why I said women...if you said King I would said men...i think my post came off the wrong way...but I will say I do want Mariah to use every chart tactic in the book to keep Brenda out of #1 and dethrone the current #1 

I feel like ultimately we agree. I just said Queen because let's be honest no one gamed the charts so easily and publicly like she did during the 90s. And that wasn't wrong.

I think we agree as well. As a lamb, I do acknowledge the discounts Mariah used at the end of the 90s. I do find it odd when people shame artists for using discounts but if it's their favorite artist they would turn a blind eye to it. 

[Hefty Hanna]

I don’t get the discounted singles argument because if a song is garbage people aren’t going to spend ANY money on it, even if it’s only 69 cents.

If the demand is there, it’s there.

[cking33]

Nov 30, 2022 15:19:03 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Baffles me as to why anyone would be against RATCT hitting No. 1. Is it greed running rampant?

Not against that song, specifically. Speaking as a lamb, I'd like to see Mariah snatch back the longevity record for longest running No. 1 song. I also don't think that's such a bad thing to root for.

If Brenda get it, congrats to her, I personally am not going to feel any animus toward her. But I'm still pulling for Mariah to eventually get the longevity record back. In sports, the Patriots didn't stop trying to win Super Bowls just because they already had six!

[bonicap]

I don't like the gimmick Taylor did with the remixes. I feel like she manipulated the chart on Drake's release week. She got +400 points only with sales, Anti-Hero didn't deserve to keep the #1 spot that week. That being said, those remixes are more than 3 weeks old. I don't know why putting them on the website this week is considered chart manipulation. It's like putting them on iTunes or Spotify, just putting the music you've done on the market. It's not like there is a new remix this week.

[HolidayGuy]

cking, let's not bring the Deflaters into this now. In any event, competitive sports is a tad different scenario, eh?

Being a holiday song and given current rules and streaming climate, it's very easy for the most popular ones to keep racking up those weeks, whether at No. 1, on the chart, etc. Really not a fair comparison to non-holiday songs that never had such a benefit. Even though holiday songs were barred from the Hot 100 for a long while, they've had plenty of opportunity to make up for that since 2012.

[Future Captain]

Dec 1, 2022 18:10:27 GMT -5 bonicap said:

I don't like the gimmick Taylor did with the remixes. I feel like she manipulated the chart on Drake's release week. She got +400 points only with sales, Anti-Hero didn't deserve to keep the #1 spot that week. That being said, those remixes are more than 3 weeks old. I don't know why putting them on the website this week is considered chart manipulation. It's like putting them on iTunes or Spotify, just putting the music you've done on the market. It's not like there is a new remix this week.

well, the argument would be that since those are only available for limited time in her online store, it creates a false sense of urgency. Which now that I think about is basically the 90s/00s tactics of witholding physical single releases in until peak radio play for best chart placement evolved for the streaming era

[bonicap]

Dec 1, 2022 18:20:35 GMT -5 Future Captain said:

Dec 1, 2022 18:10:27 GMT -5 bonicap said:

I don't like the gimmick Taylor did with the remixes. I feel like she manipulated the chart on Drake's release week. She got +400 points only with sales, Anti-Hero didn't deserve to keep the #1 spot that week. That being said, those remixes are more than 3 weeks old. I don't know why putting them on the website this week is considered chart manipulation. It's like putting them on iTunes or Spotify, just putting the music you've done on the market. It's not like there is a new remix this week.

well, the argument would be that since those are only available for limited time in her online store, it creates a false sense of urgency. Which now that I think about is basically the 90s/00s tactics of witholding physical single releases in until peak radio play for best chart placement evolved for the streaming era

You have a point and if she does it I guess it's because there are still people buying them, but how many of those who are willing to pay for them are still without a copy? I agree that the "available for a limited time" thing is a bad look.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2022 15:30:14 GMT -5 GW said:

The way all these chart-obsessed people in here are obsessing over Taylor being chart-obsessed is sending me. If the charts mean as much as you all make them out to, then why is anyone mad that she's playing the game to maximize her chart positions?

It's likely the same people that say "xx needs to discount NOW" that are mad that Taylor is doing what it takes to remain at #1 while she can? As if there should be a limit in the spirit of fairness? It's like you want someone to succeed, but then ok, that's enough. She needs to be stopped. She's got too many fans willing to support her. Shut that s**t down. Do you all hear yourselves?

I could care less who is on top these days, but damn, Taylor has a massive following who is willing to support her and her music, and a label that obviously wants to maximize that potential. GOOD ON THEM.

But please continue to twist yourselves into knots crying about the girl boss's ability to run the charts for an extended period of time. She isn't the first and won't be the last.

It's only pathetic and sad if you're earning millions and millions from your obsession. Doing it as a hobby is all fine and well 

[85la]

Dec 1, 2022 15:30:14 GMT -5 GW said:

The way all these chart-obsessed people in here are obsessing over Taylor being chart-obsessed is sending me. If the charts mean as much as you all make them out to, then why is anyone mad that she's playing the game to maximize her chart positions?

It's likely the same people that say "xx needs to discount NOW" that are mad that Taylor is doing what it takes to remain at #1 while she can? As if there should be a limit in the spirit of fairness? It's like you want someone to succeed, but then ok, that's enough. She needs to be stopped. She's got too many fans willing to support her. Shut that s**t down. Do you all hear yourselves?

I could care less who is on top these days, but damn, Taylor has a massive following who is willing to support her and her music, and a label that obviously wants to maximize that potential. GOOD ON THEM.

But please continue to twist yourselves into knots crying about the girl boss's ability to run the charts for an extended period of time. She isn't the first and won't be the last.

But the thing is even without the sales tactics, the gimmicks, the remixes, she would still be huge. I believe it was shown that upon Midnight's debut week, she still would have held the entire top 10 on streaming alone. Even without the remixes for Anti-Hero it still would've been #1 multiple weeks. So it's just strange that she has this unprecedented appetite and need to be even huger and crush the competition even more when she's already beat them, not content on them even having one week. She's acting like a mega multi-national corporation attempting to crush and snatch all competition. Degree always matters. When it gets to a point where she seems to be needlessly crushing everyone else and losing a sense of humility, sorry, but it's reasonable for us to point this out and complain.

[85la]

Dec 1, 2022 14:57:23 GMT -5 Choco said:

Ok but where's Mariah's team? Drop a single CD or something queen. She was the queen of the chart tactics before Taylor was even 3 years old.

Tbqh I understand the Anti Hero complains but the competition is old ass songs that clog up the chart every year. They'll also have a shot next week (and next year, and the next, and the ne...). The least boring outcome would be Brenda Lee getting her third #1 hit at age 77 with a song recorded when she was 13. That's technically both one of the youngest and oldest female to hit #1.

This will actually be a very interesting bit of trivia if it happens, in a sense both the youngest and oldest artist to hit #1!! (Stevie Wonder also hit #1 with Fingertips Part 2 when he was 13, though not exactly sure who was younger when they recorded it).