Billboard Hot 100: 08/26/2023

[Ling-Ling]

Doja is the most prolific Top 40 hitmaker of the 2020's (although people continue to leave her out of the pop girlie discussions for some reason). She may be messy af, but she was never going down that easy. "PTTR" getting the reception it deserves. I just wish "Attention" hadn't been tossed out there like an afterthought, it deserved way more.

[thegreatdivine]

Aug 18, 2023 7:35:29 GMT -5 Ling-Ling said:

Doja is the most prolific Top 40 hitmaker of the 2020's (although people continue to leave her out of the pop girlie discussions for some reason). She may be messy af, but she was never going down that easy. "PTTR" getting the reception it deserves. I just wish "Attention" hadn't been tossed out there like an afterthought, it deserved way more.

I'll admit she's a radio darling and is very skilled at crafting bops but she hasn't had any song take off and truly become a hit on its own merit and without help from TikTok. Attention didn't take off because TikTok didn't gravitate towards it and the same thing was happening to Paint the Town Red (it had a decent first few days and then stalled on streaming) until it started going viral on TikTok. Now, it's rapidly gaining streams and will start rising on the charts.

We've seen this happen with other songs recently like Cruel Summer, Die for You, Under the Influence and Sure Thing. TikTok grabs on first and that aids with streaming and then radio grabs on and ta da! You have a hit record on the charts.

[jenglisbe]

Aug 18, 2023 7:52:49 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

but she hasn't had any song take off and truly become a hit on its own merit and without help from TikTok

How is taking off on TikTok not doing it on its own merit? Are you saying her team is paying TikTok or something?

[thegreatdivine]

Aug 18, 2023 8:01:45 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Aug 18, 2023 7:52:49 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

but she hasn't had any song take off and truly become a hit on its own merit and without help from TikTok

How is taking off on TikTok not doing it on its own merit? Are you saying her team is paying TikTok or something?

Are we still naive enough to act like most songs that go crazy viral on TikTok do so organically? Don't we all know the story behind the virality of abcdefu? Record labels aren't stupid. They stopped doing dance challenges to get their artists' songs to go viral because it was too tryhard and the GP was starting to see through that. Some labels pay some of the biggest names on TikTok to use the songs of their artists in their posts and that is often what starts off the chain reaction but most others just impress upon them to make TikTok bait songs and many artists have come out to complain about this already.

Frankly, I don't care if her team pays for her songs to go viral because I think she should have most of her songs become hits on their own merit anyways. She's a talented singer/writer/performer. She has the best ear for hits of any female artist in this new generation imo but I've watched her career for long enough to understand that it wasn't enough for her to make catchy tunes that even got label support, until Say So took off on TikTok. TikTok is what tipped the scale for her and that continues to be what makes her bops translate to actual hits. I'm just saying is that it isn't a sustainable means to getting hits, is all.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

If it were that easy, I wonder why it doesn’t happen to more artists and more songs.

[thegreatdivine]

Aug 18, 2023 9:33:48 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

If it were that easy, I wonder why it doesn’t happen to more artists and more songs.

Before you try to throw shade, don't miss my point. I don't care how the songs are going viral. I care that they have to go viral on TikTok first BEFORE becoming legitimate hits. TikTok is one platform. Something could happen tomorrow that leads to it getting banned in the US. If that ever happens, where does that leave the artists who only get hits from the songs they have that go viral on TikTok?

Doja Cat is a radio darling already so she'll get radio airplay for any bop she pushes but I hope she gets to place where her songs start taking off without TikTok intervention. That'll be when she truly becomes established imo.

[thegreatdivine]

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Aug 18, 2023 9:30:10 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Aug 18, 2023 8:01:45 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

How is taking off on TikTok not doing it on its own merit? Are you saying her team is paying TikTok or something?

Are we still naive enough to act like most songs that go crazy viral on TikTok do so organically? Don't we all know the story behind the virality of abcdefu? Record labels aren't stupid. They stopped doing dance challenges to get their artists' songs to go viral because it was too tryhard and the GP was starting to see through that. Some labels pay some of the biggest names on TikTok to use the songs of their artists in their posts and that is often what starts off the chain reaction but most others just impress upon them to make TikTok bait songs and many artists have come out to complain about this already.

Frankly, I don't care if her team pays for her songs to go viral because I think she should have most of her songs become hits on their own merit anyways. She's a talented singer/writer/performer. She has the best ear for hits of any female artist in this new generation imo but I've watched her career for long enough to understand that it wasn't enough for her to make catchy tunes that even got label support, until Say So took off on TikTok. TikTok is what tipped the scale for her and that continues to be what makes her bops translate to actual hits. I'm just saying is that it isn't a sustainable means to getting hits, is all.

I don't disagree with this, but some artists can pay a fortune and it'd be in vain if it doesn't click with the GP. Like you said, she has the best ear for hits, especially for TikTok, and artists can't buy that.

[thegreatdivine]

Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ exactly and that's why I said I don't care if her team pays for that or not. I know there's an element of legit support that has to happen for a song to truly go viral on TikTok (some labels do their part to speed up that process and others don't). I'm just saying TikTok shouldn't be a necessary part of the equation for artists to get bonafide hits. That's dangerous. We've already seen a crop of artists land a single TikTok-fueled hit and go from 0 to 100 only to fade back into obscurity just as quickly. It's just not a sustainable model to building superstars and labels don't seem to understand that.

[korbel16]

it’s incredibly difficult to comprehend that the safest country song (fast car) didn’t make it to the top but the other 3 problematic country songs this year did.

[Ling-Ling]

Doja has undeniably benefited from TikTok. But the vast majority of TikTok hits don't see big success on radio/streaming/Hot 100. Countless artists have tried to jumpstart or maintain a career there and have failed time and again. Sure, they may land a hit, but not a string of non-stop hits over a span of years. Not an album living in the top 10 for a year. Not a soon to be successful headlining tour. To do that, you have to be bigger than just TikTok. She connects with the public on radio, streaming and social media. She's a legit star at this point. This isn't a GAYLE situation where nobody could point her out of a line-up. I mean, Dua Lipa's last era was saved by TikTok and her latest song was saved by a huge movie, but nobody claims she's not a legit hitmaker.

And true, "Attention" would have benefited from more TikTok exposure. But it also didn't get a radio push and it's a more challenging song all around. It was gonna require more effort from the label and her to make it work than just plopping it out there.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates « 2023 » / « 08 » / « 18 »

1(=) Rema & Selena Gomez - Calm Down 100.58(-0.89)
2(=) Luke Combs - Fast Car 98.85(+0.30)
3(=) Taylor Swift - Cruel Summer 80.45(+0.49)
4(+1) SZA - Snooze 68.72(-0.14)
5(-1) Morgan Wallen - Last Night 68.47(-1.26)
6(=) Miley Cyrus - Flowers 66.18(-0.52)
7(=) Jelly Roll - Need A Favor 61.88(+0.12)
8(=) Olivia Rodrigo - vampire 59.77(+1.01)
9(=) Taylor Swift - Karma 57.55(-0.90)
10(=) Dua Lipa - Dance The Night 57.15(+0.89)

16(=) Nicki Minaj & Ice Spice - Barbie World (with Aqua) [From Barbie The Album] 37.29(+0.84)

90(+3) Usher, 21 Savage & Summer Walker - Good Good 11.62(+0.71)

-(-) DJ Khaled, Lil Baby & Future - SUPPOSED TO BE LOVED (feat. Lil Uzi Vert) 9.07(+0.79)

-(-) Olivia Rodrigo - bad idea right? 5.56(+1.41) +

-(-) De La Ghetto X Myke Towers - Me Dijeron 1.34(+0.88) +

[jenglisbe]

Aug 18, 2023 10:23:49 GMT -5 korbel16 said:

it’s incredibly difficult to comprehend that the safest country song (fast car) didn’t make it to the top but the other 3 problematic country songs this year did.

I could be wrong by what you mean about "safest," but it's interesting only because didn't Luke Combs have some controversy because he posed with the confederate flag in a music video? Additionally "Fast Car" is a song about generational poverty and other issues. In other words, it's only safe by relativity. I wonder if a white man wasn't singing it now, if country artists would have viewed it as a liberal anthem.

[hughster1]

Aug 17, 2023 18:21:22 GMT -5 Darkest Hour said:

Aug 17, 2023 13:23:59 GMT -5 hughster1 said:

Also I think this is the first time ever the Hot 100 will have three consecutive country songs at the top. I only wish one of the three was "Fast Car."

Already happened with Try That In A Small Town/Last Night/Fast Car.

"Fast Car" hasn't topped the Hot 100. But I realized I wasn't clear - I meant three consecutive country songs hitting number 1, not the top three all being country songs.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

[thegreatdivine]

My point with reference to Doja Cat was her needing TikTok to translate her already catchy bops to bonafide hits. I'm not equating her to these other artists who scored one hit thanks to TikTok vitality and then fizzled out. Obviously, she's more established than that because she has managed to score multiple smash hits.

I'm saying her needing her songs to take off on TikTok before becoming smash hits is not sustainable as a means of garnering hits because TikTok could get banned in the US tomorrow and then she's cooked.

I really just wish more songs could take off due to exposure via radio/word of mouth without the need for TikTok. That used to be enough before but that doesn't seem to be the case these days.

[Groovy]

Aug 18, 2023 10:23:49 GMT -5 korbel16 said:

it’s incredibly difficult to comprehend that the safest country song (fast car) didn’t make it to the top but the other 3 problematic country songs this year did.

I get Morgan Wallen is problematic but how is Last Night?

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

+ #7 Barbie World and #8 Becky Hill's Disconnect. Billboard when?

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Aug 18, 2023 12:02:04 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

+ #7 Barbie World and #8 Becky Hill's Disconnect. Billboard when?

These songs + Barbie World and Sprinter, as well as Seven which is the song that spent the most weeks atop the Global spotify charts - feel more indicative of the songs of the summer.

The days of the US market being the forefront of global hits is over and we're thankful for that

[awkwardowl]

This one is looks like chart from Barbie Kingdom. It's amazing achievement but worth noting that Sprinter falls that hard (1-10 in 11th week after 10 wks at #1) because of ACR rule.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Aug 18, 2023 9:39:01 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Aug 18, 2023 9:33:48 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

If it were that easy, I wonder why it doesn’t happen to more artists and more songs.

Before you try to throw shade, don't miss my point. I don't care how the songs are going viral. I care that they have to go viral on TikTok first BEFORE becoming legitimate hits. TikTok is one platform. Something could happen tomorrow that leads to it getting banned in the US. If that ever happens, where does that leave the artists who only get hits from the songs they have that go viral on TikTok?

Doja Cat is a radio darling already so she'll get radio airplay for any bop she pushes but I hope she gets to place where her songs start taking off without TikTok intervention. That'll be when she truly becomes established imo.

I think TikTok is just one more means to promotion for labels, though it isn't one that necessarily always sticks, but probably is the one with the most potential. As you've said, it's not a sustaining method should TikTok ever be taken offline in the US, and in theory, labels should know that, but for the time being, it's probably the one that does get the most bang for their buck because of the potential for viral moments on there is higher than other types of social media and apps people use.

[wavey.]

I remember a few yrs (or recently, idk, life is moving too fast), but I shitted on TikTok. I'm all for now with the recent successes it propelled for whomever benefited from.(Miguel is a big example.)

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

Aug 18, 2023 12:44:57 GMT -5 awkwardowl said:

This one is looks like chart from Barbie Kingdom. It's amazing achievement but worth noting that Sprinter falls that hard (1-10 in 11th week after 10 wks at #1) because of ACR rule.

Too add to the domination of songs by women in the UK this year, the top 5 songs in their YTD singles chart are by them as well.

Also, Rich Men North of Richmond managed to debut at #64 in this week's Official Singles chart.

[85la]

Aug 18, 2023 11:39:42 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

I'm saying her needing her songs to take off on TikTok before becoming smash hits is not sustainable as a means of garnering hits because TikTok could get banned in the US tomorrow and then she's cooked.

I really just wish more songs could take off due to exposure via radio/word of mouth without the need for TikTok. That used to be enough before but that doesn't seem to be the case these days.

I think it's highly unlikely that TikTok will ever get banned in the U.S., and even if it is, the trend of it is too strong to just go away overnight. Another platform will easily come up to take its place. Radio is completely dead as a channel of discovering and launching new hits, they mostly just play what has already been popular for a while through streaming/viral trends.

I think you're speaking as if TikTok is still some novelty thing that only produces fluke hits, but that's far from the case. It's been a fairly reliable hitmaker for at least 4 years now for many songs, and while it certainly isn't the only way to get a hit and probably never will be, it's becoming more and more dominant each year and is where the music industry is headed. If someone is able to get a string of nearly a dozen top 20 hits over several years largely fueled by TikTok, that seems pretty lasting and sustainable, and Doja might be the groundbreaker in this regard as someone who is proving that a sustainable career can be built of off TikTok. 

[mms82]

Is there another example of a song debuting at 1 &10 the same week but nowhere between? Fun bookend

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Aug 18, 2023 20:23:47 GMT -5 mms82 said:

Is there another example of a song debuting at 1 &10 the same week but nowhere between? Fun bookend

not sure, but I think this will be the first time. The closest examples were:

#1 BTS - Butter
#9 Olivia Rodrigo - traitor

#1 Olivia Rodrigo - drivers license
#9 Morgan Wallen - Wasted On You

#2 David Archuleta - Crush
#10 Taylor Swift - Change

[imbuemyblue]

Wow, that UK top 6 eating the US up so bad, whew.

[eagle27]

Doja is the exception, not the rule on building a career based on TikTok hits. She has the ultimate internet persona that is the perfect mix of relatable yet wacky and campy that makes her so marketable through TikTok, which can’t be replicated by most artists. Also helps that she appeals to pop, hip-hop, and r&b fans for mass appeal and multiformat radio success.

[𝓲𝓽'𝓼.𝓰𝓿]

Aug 18, 2023 20:56:14 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

Aug 18, 2023 20:23:47 GMT -5 mms82 said:

Is there another example of a song debuting at 1 &10 the same week but nowhere between? Fun bookend

not sure, but I think this will be the first time. The closest examples were:

#1 BTS - Butter
#9 Olivia Rodrigo - traitor

#1 Olivia Rodrigo - drivers license
#9 Morgan Wallen - Wasted On You

#2 David Archuleta - Crush
#10 Taylor Swift - Change

outside of Archuleta/Taylor, all of the scenarios feature Olivia Rodrigo, and RMNOR/BIR? being the reverse of Drivers License/Wasted on You (the country song now on #1, then Olivia at the bottom)

[ificanthaveyou]

Aug 18, 2023 11:17:11 GMT -5 Baby Yoda Hot100Fan said:

So Taylor could have totally taken a stab at it this week and probably nabbed the top spot with dance remixes and a $.69 discount… I wonder where the hesitancy is coming from… Cruel Summer is so close and needs the slightest push