Billboard Hot 100: 09/16/2023

[jenglisbe]

Sept 2, 2023 12:01:16 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

The new Maneskin song absolutely rocks! Most likely the track will have zero impact on the Hot 100, which leaves me baffled. This band is selling out Madison Square Garden this month and they never had a top ten single or album on Billboard, as if there were some sort of disconnect between the Billboard charts and the actual success and following that certain artists and bands have. No wonder there are artists that are calling for a reform of the Billboard charts. The charts don't reflect which bands and artists are actually popular at the moment as ticket sales don't match with chart positions. I understand that for legacy acts, but not for current bands. Maneskin should have had at least three or four top ten singles and a top ten album in the past 3 or 4 years. You don't get to play Madison Square Garden unless you're extremely popular. Doja Cat was never even close to play her own show at Madison Square Garden and how many top ten hits does she have? 6 or 7? What a joke.

What would your proposal be? What other potential Hot 100 measure is there to show Maneskin's popularity?

[atg]

Sept 3, 2023 9:30:11 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Time for the summer songs to start decreasing please.(Some)

Summer doesn’t even end until the 22nd officially so them still being here is understandable.

[mms82]

Taylor just posted about Cruel Summer - hopefully it’s the start of her giving a push with MV / Remix / Discount

[iHype.]

U2 got the highest grossing tour in history in 2009 while having only 1 song from their current album at the time make top 40 at #37.

Madonna got the highest grossing female tour in history in 2008 while having one of her weakest performing albums.

Touring has never had any strong correlation to how relevant your current music is lol. It usually skews towards legacy artists and/or Rock artists because the white middle aged demo have the most money to spend on live entertainment.

Also, I’m not even sure Maneskin has any ability to sell out MSG or if that was just a made up lie. They couldn’t even sell out a ballroom in New York according to actual receipts so.

[ificanthaveyou]

Sept 3, 2023 10:42:04 GMT -5 mms82 said:

Taylor just posted about Cruel Summer - hopefully it’s the start of her giving a push with MV / Remix / Discount

Nope. She wants to stay true to the theme and make it a cruel summer for fans 😒

[larrydmusic]

Sept 3, 2023 11:00:22 GMT -5 iHype. said:

U2 got the highest grossing tour in history in 2009 while having only 1 song from their current album at the time make top 40 at #37.

Madonna got the highest grossing female tour in history in 2008 while having one of her weakest performing albums.

Touring has never had any strong correlation to how relevant your current music is lol. It usually skews towards legacy artists and/or Rock artists because the white middle aged demo have the most money to spend on live entertainment.

So basically you're saying that since white middle aged people would rather consume their music by spending money on live shows than streaming songs over and over again, that type of music consumption shouldn't count towards the charts. What difference does it make if you're listening to an artist at a live show or on Spotify? Aren't you still consuming their music?
Shouldn't the charts reflect the overall music consumption, including what white middle aged people listen to?! LOL
In the past, the correlation was clear: the fans that would spend money to buy your singles and albums were the same as the fans that would spend money to come to your live show. The more albums you sold, the more tickets you sold. So there was really no need to count ticket sales in the music consumption algorithm.
Since streaming took over, that correlation went down the toilet. Anyone can listen to a song or an album on streaming services without spending any money, but whether that person will spend money on that artist to go to their show is not guaranteed. And if that person does spend money to buy tickets, it doesn't count towards music consumption.
With all the progress that AI has been making in processing data and calculating stats, you would think that by now the music consumed at a live show would be factored in the algorithm that determines what music is actually popular.
If 80,000 people listen to "Running up that hill" on Spotify, it counts towards the charts. But if 80,000 people listen to "With or without you" during a live show at Yankee Stadium, it doesn't count.

[jenglisbe]

Sept 3, 2023 13:02:23 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

Sept 3, 2023 11:00:22 GMT -5 iHype. said:

U2 got the highest grossing tour in history in 2009 while having only 1 song from their current album at the time make top 40 at #37.

Madonna got the highest grossing female tour in history in 2008 while having one of her weakest performing albums.

Touring has never had any strong correlation to how relevant your current music is lol. It usually skews towards legacy artists and/or Rock artists because the white middle aged demo have the most money to spend on live entertainment.

So basically you're saying that since white middle aged people would rather consume their music by spending money on live shows than streaming songs over and over again, that type of music consumption shouldn't count towards the charts. What difference does it make if you're listening to an artist at a live show or on Spotify? Aren't you still consuming their music?
Shouldn't the charts reflect the overall music consumption, including what white middle aged people listen to?! LOL
In the past, the correlation was clear: the fans that would spend money to buy your singles and albums were the same as the fans that would spend money to come to your live show. The more albums you sold, the more tickets you sold. So there was really no need to count ticket sales in the music consumption algorithm.
Since streaming took over, that correlation went down the toilet. Anyone can listen to a song or an album on streaming services without spending any money, but whether that person will spend money on that artist to go to their show is not guaranteed. And if that person does spend money to buy tickets, it doesn't count towards music consumption.
With all the progress that AI has been making in processing data and calculating stats, you would think that by now the music consumed at a live show would be factored in the algorithm that determines what music is actually popular.
If 80,000 people listen to "Running up that hill" on Spotify, it counts towards the charts. But if 80,000 people listen to "With or without you" during a live show at Yankee Stadium, it doesn't count.

Ok, so you're saying count a performance of a song as if it was a stream. You do realize even if they did that, it wouldn't have a huge effect on the charts right? For one very few artists are playing to 80,000 people in a show or even across a week. Then even if you add 80,000 'streams' to a song, that actually isn't a huge amount overall considering the top songs are doing millions of streams a day. (Along the same lines, if you counted it as 80,000 'impressions' a la radio, it also wouldn't make a huge difference.)

[shadowthehedgehogfan]

by that logic songs in tv shows should be eligible chart with how many viewers the episode gets counting to the songs point total.

[larrydmusic]

Sept 3, 2023 13:20:27 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Ok, so you're saying count a performance of a song as if it was a stream. You do realize even if they did that, it wouldn't have a huge effect on the charts right? For one very few artists are playing to 80,000 people in a show or even across a week. Then even if you add 80,000 'streams' to a song, that actually isn't a huge amount overall considering the top songs are doing millions of streams a day. (Along the same lines, if you counted it as 80,000 'impressions' a la radio, it also wouldn't make a huge difference.)

Excellent observation! I think it should count almost as a download, perhaps 1/2 or 3/4 of an iTunes download, since you're actually paying money to listen to it at the show. And considering how expensive concert tickets are, sometimes you're paying a lot of money!

[KeepDeanWeird]

It'd be great if we had a dedicated thread to discuss chart components, ratios, eligible/ineligible remixes, ratios, recurrent rules, Xmas songs charting, etc.

Even though it'll have zero influence on Billboard change, a lot of posters here have really interesting suggestions and contributions. It's always been a personal favorite topic, but clogging up a random week(s) discussion on a some chart rule tangent only distracts from the real purpose of the weekly thread. Plus there's a lot of great discussions/ideas but they're buried in some random weekly thread.

It'd also be a great place for newer members to check out because some may believe no one's thought of it before.

For this week, I wonder how well ZB's tracks will hold on the chart. May not fall as much as *normal* week because radio-depended songs may be lower across-the-board because of Labor Day weekend.

[awkwardowl]

Sept 3, 2023 13:44:25 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

Sept 3, 2023 13:20:27 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Ok, so you're saying count a performance of a song as if it was a stream. You do realize even if they did that, it wouldn't have a huge effect on the charts right? For one very few artists are playing to 80,000 people in a show or even across a week. Then even if you add 80,000 'streams' to a song, that actually isn't a huge amount overall considering the top songs are doing millions of streams a day. (Along the same lines, if you counted it as 80,000 'impressions' a la radio, it also wouldn't make a huge difference.)

Excellent observation! I think it should count almost as a download, perhaps 1/2 or 3/4 of an iTunes download, since you're actually paying money to listen to it at the show. And considering how expensive concert tickets are, sometimes you're paying a lot of money!

Well, then why only 1/2 or 3/4? And any idea what to do next if labels decide to organise 70-songs concerts with $5 tickets and then buy this tickets by themselves?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 3, 2023 13:02:23 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

Sept 3, 2023 11:00:22 GMT -5 iHype. said:

U2 got the highest grossing tour in history in 2009 while having only 1 song from their current album at the time make top 40 at #37.

Madonna got the highest grossing female tour in history in 2008 while having one of her weakest performing albums.

Touring has never had any strong correlation to how relevant your current music is lol. It usually skews towards legacy artists and/or Rock artists because the white middle aged demo have the most money to spend on live entertainment.

So basically you're saying that since white middle aged people would rather consume their music by spending money on live shows than streaming songs over and over again, that type of music consumption shouldn't count towards the charts. What difference does it make if you're listening to an artist at a live show or on Spotify? Aren't you still consuming their music?
Shouldn't the charts reflect the overall music consumption, including what white middle aged people listen to?! LOL
In the past, the correlation was clear: the fans that would spend money to buy your singles and albums were the same as the fans that would spend money to come to your live show. The more albums you sold, the more tickets you sold. So there was really no need to count ticket sales in the music consumption algorithm.
Since streaming took over, that correlation went down the toilet. Anyone can listen to a song or an album on streaming services without spending any money, but whether that person will spend money on that artist to go to their show is not guaranteed. And if that person does spend money to buy tickets, it doesn't count towards music consumption.
With all the progress that AI has been making in processing data and calculating stats, you would think that by now the music consumed at a live show would be factored in the algorithm that determines what music is actually popular.
If 80,000 people listen to "Running up that hill" on Spotify, it counts towards the charts. But if 80,000 people listen to "With or without you" during a live show at Yankee Stadium, it doesn't count.

I’m not sure you understand what the charts are intended to represent?

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Sept 3, 2023 13:02:23 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

Sept 3, 2023 11:00:22 GMT -5 iHype. said:

U2 got the highest grossing tour in history in 2009 while having only 1 song from their current album at the time make top 40 at #37.

Madonna got the highest grossing female tour in history in 2008 while having one of her weakest performing albums.

Touring has never had any strong correlation to how relevant your current music is lol. It usually skews towards legacy artists and/or Rock artists because the white middle aged demo have the most money to spend on live entertainment.

So basically you're saying that since white middle aged people would rather consume their music by spending money on live shows than streaming songs over and over again, that type of music consumption shouldn't count towards the charts. What difference does it make if you're listening to an artist at a live show or on Spotify? Aren't you still consuming their music?
Shouldn't the charts reflect the overall music consumption, including what white middle aged people listen to?! LOL
In the past, the correlation was clear: the fans that would spend money to buy your singles and albums were the same as the fans that would spend money to come to your live show. The more albums you sold, the more tickets you sold. So there was really no need to count ticket sales in the music consumption algorithm.
Since streaming took over, that correlation went down the toilet. Anyone can listen to a song or an album on streaming services without spending any money, but whether that person will spend money on that artist to go to their show is not guaranteed. And if that person does spend money to buy tickets, it doesn't count towards music consumption.
With all the progress that AI has been making in processing data and calculating stats, you would think that by now the music consumed at a live show would be factored in the algorithm that determines what music is actually popular.
If 80,000 people listen to "Running up that hill" on Spotify, it counts towards the charts. But if 80,000 people listen to "With or without you" during a live show at Yankee Stadium, it doesn't count.

So uh, lots of things but let's try and get things clear:

1. The correlation of singles doing well has never meant shit when it comes to actual concert attendance even back in the 60s-80s. Albums, sure but we're talking the Hot 100 charts, not the 200 charts so we're already on fallacious grounds. If that we're the case and single sales really did drive people's concert and overall success, Sinead O'Connor should've had a successful career. 

2. No one said anything about the consumption of "middle aged white men" not counting. It's just pointing out how concert sales are skewered towards certain demoa

3. If we are going to count music at a live show, how do you measure which shows count? For big festivals like Coachella, do you count all acts across all 3 days as having the same attendance? What about for smaller venues? Wouldn't you also include live performances on TV? Hell, shouldn't musicals be jncluded since people are also paying tickets to see them?

And 4. Going back to the artists who started this whole debate, even if concert sales were factored into singles charts, that still wouldn't mean Maneskin would have Top 10 singles. Don't give me the whole "MSG IS PRETIGIOUS" billshit, give me actual data that shows they're one of the top selling acts when it comes to ticket sales. 

[velaxti]

Sept 2, 2023 12:01:16 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

The new Maneskin song absolutely rocks! Most likely the track will have zero impact on the Hot 100, which leaves me baffled. This band is selling out Madison Square Garden this month and they never had a top ten single or album on Billboard, as if there were some sort of disconnect between the Billboard charts and the actual success and following that certain artists and bands have. No wonder there are artists that are calling for a reform of the Billboard charts. The charts don't reflect which bands and artists are actually popular at the moment as ticket sales don't match with chart positions. I understand that for legacy acts, but not for current bands. Maneskin should have had at least three or four top ten singles and a top ten album in the past 3 or 4 years. You don't get to play Madison Square Garden unless you're extremely popular. Doja Cat was never even close to play her own show at Madison Square Garden and how many top ten hits does she have? 6 or 7? What a joke.

I would say Maneskin are very successful, even in the charts. Beggin' was a big hit in the US. I Wanna Be Your Slave probably would've been too but they didn't want to release it in the US due to the whole "slave" thing, but it was a big hit in every other Western country,

The charts can be like that sometimes.

Even in the world of pop music. In the early 10's Drake was absolutely massive but a lot of his biggest hits struggled to make top 10 or missed completely, whilst Flo Rida and Pitbull were effortlessly racking up massive hits despite being nowhere near as big as him in the real world. That changed later of course, but there are others like Lana Del Rey, Frank Ocean, Skrillex, etc, who are really famous and well-known but didn't do much in the charts usually.

I wouldn't be opposed to them counting live concerts in the Hot 100, but I don't think it'd make a big difference anyway. It would depend on how they weight it I suppose. Other things they could count are jukeboxes, night club airplay (although I think this would be impossible to track anywhere near accurately).

Doja Cat gets hit after hit, but (and this is in NO way meant as an insult) almost all her singles somehow go viral on TikTok, they're TikTok candy. It's a TINY bit like how Flo Rida, Pitbull, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, how they used to release radio candy to get lots of hits 10+ yeas ago. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha were accused of the same. Doja Cat is a bit like that but with TikTok, and that's the easiest way to get hits these days. In fact, Maneskin's two biggest chart hits initially took off after going viral on TikTok a couple of weeks after Eurovision.

It's happened to all of us when a song or artist seems absolutely massive and inescapable but the charts don't reflect it. It's annoying, but I just have to accept it really.

[neel]

Sept 3, 2023 17:56:33 GMT -5 velaxti said:

Sept 2, 2023 12:01:16 GMT -5 larrydmusic said:

The new Maneskin song absolutely rocks! Most likely the track will have zero impact on the Hot 100, which leaves me baffled. This band is selling out Madison Square Garden this month and they never had a top ten single or album on Billboard, as if there were some sort of disconnect between the Billboard charts and the actual success and following that certain artists and bands have. No wonder there are artists that are calling for a reform of the Billboard charts. The charts don't reflect which bands and artists are actually popular at the moment as ticket sales don't match with chart positions. I understand that for legacy acts, but not for current bands. Maneskin should have had at least three or four top ten singles and a top ten album in the past 3 or 4 years. You don't get to play Madison Square Garden unless you're extremely popular. Doja Cat was never even close to play her own show at Madison Square Garden and how many top ten hits does she have? 6 or 7? What a joke.

I would say Maneskin are very successful, even in the charts. Beggin' was a big hit in the US. I Wanna Be Your Slave probably would've been too but they didn't want to release it in the US due to the whole "slave" thing, but it was a big hit in every other Western country,

The charts can be like that sometimes.

Even in the world of pop music. In the early 10's Drake was absolutely massive but a lot of his biggest hits struggled to make top 10 or missed completely, whilst Flo Rida and Pitbull were effortlessly racking up massive hits despite being nowhere near as big as him in the real world. That changed later of course, but there are others like Lana Del Rey, Frank Ocean, Skrillex, etc, who are really famous and well-known but didn't do much in the charts usually.

I wouldn't be opposed to them counting live concerts in the Hot 100, but I don't think it'd make a big difference anyway. It would depend on how they weight it I suppose. Other things they could count are jukeboxes, night club airplay (although I think this would be impossible to track anywhere near accurately).

Doja Cat gets hit after hit, but (and this is in NO way meant as an insult) almost all her singles somehow go viral on TikTok, they're TikTok candy. It's a TINY bit like how Flo Rida, Pitbull, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, how they used to release radio candy to get lots of hits 10+ yeas ago. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha were accused of the same. Doja Cat is a bit like that but with TikTok, and that's the easiest way to get hits these days. In fact, Maneskin's two biggest chart hits initially took off after going viral on TikTok a couple of weeks after Eurovision.

It's happened to all of us when a song or artist seems absolutely massive and inescapable but the charts don't reflect it. It's annoying, but I just have to accept it really.

The Billboard Hot 100 doesn’t mean shit. Simple as that.

That’s why it’s funny when you see these chart-obsessed stans having a dick measuring contest with it.

[jenglisbe]

Sept 3, 2023 18:20:54 GMT -5 neel said:

Sept 3, 2023 17:56:33 GMT -5 velaxti said:

I would say Maneskin are very successful, even in the charts. Beggin' was a big hit in the US. I Wanna Be Your Slave probably would've been too but they didn't want to release it in the US due to the whole "slave" thing, but it was a big hit in every other Western country,

The charts can be like that sometimes.

Even in the world of pop music. In the early 10's Drake was absolutely massive but a lot of his biggest hits struggled to make top 10 or missed completely, whilst Flo Rida and Pitbull were effortlessly racking up massive hits despite being nowhere near as big as him in the real world. That changed later of course, but there are others like Lana Del Rey, Frank Ocean, Skrillex, etc, who are really famous and well-known but didn't do much in the charts usually.

I wouldn't be opposed to them counting live concerts in the Hot 100, but I don't think it'd make a big difference anyway. It would depend on how they weight it I suppose. Other things they could count are jukeboxes, night club airplay (although I think this would be impossible to track anywhere near accurately).

Doja Cat gets hit after hit, but (and this is in NO way meant as an insult) almost all her singles somehow go viral on TikTok, they're TikTok candy. It's a TINY bit like how Flo Rida, Pitbull, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, how they used to release radio candy to get lots of hits 10+ yeas ago. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha were accused of the same. Doja Cat is a bit like that but with TikTok, and that's the easiest way to get hits these days. In fact, Maneskin's two biggest chart hits initially took off after going viral on TikTok a couple of weeks after Eurovision.

It's happened to all of us when a song or artist seems absolutely massive and inescapable but the charts don't reflect it. It's annoying, but I just have to accept it really.

The Billboard Hot 100 doesn’t mean shit. Simple as that.


That’s why it’s funny when you see these chart-obsessed stans having a dick measuring contest with it.

And yet you're consistently in these Hot 100 threads...

[Gary]

Sept 3, 2023 18:20:54 GMT -5 neel said:

Sept 3, 2023 17:56:33 GMT -5 velaxti said:

I would say Maneskin are very successful, even in the charts. Beggin' was a big hit in the US. I Wanna Be Your Slave probably would've been too but they didn't want to release it in the US due to the whole "slave" thing, but it was a big hit in every other Western country,

The charts can be like that sometimes.

Even in the world of pop music. In the early 10's Drake was absolutely massive but a lot of his biggest hits struggled to make top 10 or missed completely, whilst Flo Rida and Pitbull were effortlessly racking up massive hits despite being nowhere near as big as him in the real world. That changed later of course, but there are others like Lana Del Rey, Frank Ocean, Skrillex, etc, who are really famous and well-known but didn't do much in the charts usually.

I wouldn't be opposed to them counting live concerts in the Hot 100, but I don't think it'd make a big difference anyway. It would depend on how they weight it I suppose. Other things they could count are jukeboxes, night club airplay (although I think this would be impossible to track anywhere near accurately).

Doja Cat gets hit after hit, but (and this is in NO way meant as an insult) almost all her singles somehow go viral on TikTok, they're TikTok candy. It's a TINY bit like how Flo Rida, Pitbull, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, how they used to release radio candy to get lots of hits 10+ yeas ago. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha were accused of the same. Doja Cat is a bit like that but with TikTok, and that's the easiest way to get hits these days. In fact, Maneskin's two biggest chart hits initially took off after going viral on TikTok a couple of weeks after Eurovision.

It's happened to all of us when a song or artist seems absolutely massive and inescapable but the charts don't reflect it. It's annoying, but I just have to accept it really.

The Billboard Hot 100 doesn’t mean shit. Simple as that.

That’s why it’s funny when you see these chart-obsessed stans having a dick measuring contest with it.

If everyone or ANYONE for that matter who has ever posted that, actually believes that, these threads would have no activity

[wavey.]

Tik Tok is a good factor at this point idk.

[eagle27]

Fanbase is just not correlated with hits. They are measuring completely different things. You can have a huge fanbase that streams your entire discography yet the public only knows like 2-3 songs (Lana Del Rey) or you can have like 8 huge hits that the public knows without a massive fanbase (Doja, Dua Lipa 😭). You can’t really compare their successes. As for the hot 100, artists who can get good numbers on particular hits will appear more successful than artists whose sales/streams are more evenly dispersed across their discography. Even Taylor Swift herself was the most streamed female artists and could clearly kill it with touring without a real hit for a good 3 years. Numbers are numbers.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

US Spotify - 09/02/23

1(=) Doja Cat - Paint the Town Red 1,975,314 (-208,126) (-10%)
2(=) Zach Bryan, Kacey Musgraves - I Remember Everything 1,614,873 (-413,353) (-20%)
3(=) Gunna - fukumean 1,313,773 (-128,531)
4(=) Taylor Swift - Cruel Summer 1,277,084 (-129,230)
5(+1) Morgan Wallen - Last Night 1,257,409 (-50,153)
6(re-entry) Jimmy Buffett - Margaritaville 1,191,320
7(-2) Oliver Anthony Music - Rich Men North of Richmond 1,167,434 (-191,451)
8(-1) Zach Bryan, The War and Treaty - Hey Driver 908,931 (-257,130) (-22%)
9(+5) Nicki Minaj, Ice Spice - Barbie World 872,006 (-36,603)
10(=) Olivia Rodrigo - vampire 866,589 (-86,041)

Zach Bryan - Zach Bryan [16/16]
22(-11) Spotless 709,206 (-236,325)
23(-11) Tourniquet 704,720 (-235,624)
28(-11) East Side of Sorrow 660,936 (-220,460)
39(-14) Fear and Friday's 569,570 (-201,099)
52(-18) Ticking 510,312 (-191,041)
53(-18) Overtime 507,389 (-176,752)
64(-26) Summertime's Close 480,995 (-175,624)
78(-35) Smaller Act 446,955 (-167,217)
86(-41) Holy Roller 437,548 (-165,099)
90(-43) El Dorado 426,316 (-161,952)
113(-57) Jake's Piano - Long Island 387,486 (-156,027)
125(-65) Tradesman 374,835 (-152,684)
148(-72) Fear and Friday's (Poem) 351,979 (-138,335)
168(-85) Oklahoma Son 336,805 (-139,650)
Total Ninth Day Streams: 9,428,856 (-25%)

Other:
11(-3) Travis Scott - I KNOW ? 861,218 (-166,674)
12(DEBUT) Alan Jackson, Jimmy Buffett - It's Five O'Clock Somewhere 857,805
13(-4) Travis Scott, Drake - MELTDOWN 828,106 (-147,910)
14(+1) Luke Combs - Fast Car 827,399 (-66,416)
15(+3) KAROL G, Peso Pluma - QLONA 823,719 (-46,150)
16(+4) Dua Lipa - Dance the Night 801,071 (-64,337)
17(+2) Zach Bryan - Something in the Orange 780,721 (-87,849)
18(-2) Olivia Rodrigo - bad idea right? 770,670 (-114,608)
19(+2) Billie Eilish - What Was I Made For? 742,547 (-107,734)
24(+2) Jung Kook, Latto - Seven 703,750 (-65,214)
26(-2) Doja Cat - Demons 693,494 (-79,336) (-10%)
27(+2) SZA - Snooze 663,326 (-66,587)
29(-7) Miley Cyrus - Used to Be Young 659,708 (-184,669)
30(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - Cheeseburger in Paradise 658,043
31(+5) Peso Pluma, Gabito Ballesteros, Junior H - LADY GAGA 656,300 (-10,245)
32(=) Tyler the Creator, Kali Uchis - See You Again 651,255 (-63,889)
33(=) Bailey Zimmerman - Religiously 625,765 (-83,088)
34(-21) Nicki Minaj - Last Time I Saw You 614,589 (-308,530) (-33%
35(-7) Travis Scott, Playboi Carti - FE!N 611,779 (-126,055)
36(-9) Travis Scott, SZA, Future - TELEKINESIS 600,557 (-143,915)
40(+6) Myke Towers - LALA 559,086 (-42,580)
42(+2) Taylor Swift - Anti-Hero 547,878 (-55,607)
43(-1) Zach Bryan - Heading South 546,682 (-74,485)
44(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - Come Monday 546,551
45(re-entry) Zac Brown Band, Jimmy Buffett - Knee Deep 542,434
46(-9) Taylor Swift - august 532,449 (-126,580)
47(+2) Morgan Wallen - Thinkin' Bout Me 531,113 (-37,889)
48(-8) Selena Gomez - Single Soon 518,710 (-123,645) (-19%)
50(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes 518,550
54(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - A Pirate Looks At Forty 501,921
55(+3) KAROL G - MI EX TENÍA RAZÓN 500,235 (-33,592)
56(-4) Taylor Swift - Karma 498,310 (-58,805)
57(-3) Taylor Swift - Style 496,795(-52,938)
59(+8) Fuerza Regida - SABOR FRESA 492,612 (-11,963)
60(-1) NewJeans - Super Shy 489,385 (-41,145)
66(+6) Ice Spice - Deli 499,083 (+41,045)
67(-1) Taylor Swift - Blank Space 507,310 (+30,471)
69(-14) Zach Bryan - Sun to Me 467,756 (-80,056)
71(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett, - Son of a Sailor of a Sailor 460,390
72(+3) Miley Cyrus - Flowers 459,832 (-33,671)
73(+12) Laufey - From the Start 453,828 (-20,841)
76(+16) Peso Pluma, Grupo Frontera - TULUM 452,032 (-7,465)
77(-6) David Kushner - Daylight 450,224 (-50,906)
80(+15) Fuerza Regida - TQM 446,479 (-6,292)
81(-13) Noah Kahan, Post Malone - Dial Drunk Remix 445,417 (-58,994)
82(-5) Lil Durk, J. Cole - All My Life 444,010 (-45,815)
85(-21) Zach Bryan, Maggie Rogers - Dawns 441,158 (-81,344)
89(+5) Rema, Selena Gomez - Calm Down 427,061(-26,275)
92(-6) Taylor Swift - Don't Blame Me 420,478 (-54,117)
93(-20) Noah Kahan - Stick Season 419,822 (-78,651)
97(+5) Charlie XCX - Speed Drive 414,303 (-27,836)
98(-18) Taylor Swift - cardigan 413,785 (-70,455)
100(-26) Travis Scott, Bad Bunny, The Weeknd - K-POP 409,108 (-89,335)

102(DEBUT) Willie Nelson, various other artists - Roll Me Up and Smoke Me When I Die Live 405,319
106(+1) Peso Pluma, Jasiel Nuñez - LAGUNAS 403,161 (-29,309)
107(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - Boat Drinks 402,291
108(-17) Zach Bryakn - Oklahoma Smokeshow 397,474 (-64,554)
110(-11) Brent Faiyaz - Clouded 390,131 (-60,225)
111(-1) Young Nudy, 21 Savage - Peaches & Eggplants 389,149 (-36,818)
116(+12) FIFTY FIFTY - Cupid (Twin Version) 385,238 (-15,309)
120(-5) That Mexican OT, Paul Wall, DRODi - Johnny Dang 379,810 (-34,717)
121(-13) Taylor Swift - I Can See You 378,456 (-52,973)
123(+15) Bizarrap, Peso Pluma - Bzrp Music Sessions, Vol. 55 377,623 (-7,706)
124(-26) Tyler Childers - In Your Love 376,975 (-73,393)
127(-7) Tyler Childers - Feathered Indians 373,613 (-34,348)
130(-1) HARDY - TRUCK BED 370,478 (-29,575)
131(-14) TV Girl - Lovers Rock 369,018 (-42,948)
132(-21) Travis Scott - MY EYES 369,008 (-55,453)
133(=) Carin Leon - Primera Cita 368,673 (-24,026)
136(-13) Tyler Childers - All Your'n 363,936 (+38,438)
139(DEBUT) Jimmy Buffett - Fins 358,599
140(-19) The Weeknd, Playboi Carti, Madonna - Popular 358,311 (-47,769)
141(+16) Odetari, 9lives - I LOVE YOU HOE 356,702 (-11,670)
143(=) Feid, Young Miko - Classy 101 355,503 (-24,567)
144(-10) Dave, Central Cee - Sprinter 355,321 (-33,898)
145(-23) Travis Scott, Rob49, 21 Savage - TOPIA TWINS 354,970 (-48,325)
146(+3) KAROL G - S91 353,708 (-20,198)
149(+7) Peso Pluma - BYE 351,557 (-17,422)
151(+10) KAROL G - AMARGURA 349,631 (-11,854)
153(+16) Calle 24, Chino Pacas, Fuerza Regida - Que Onda 348,237 (-3,739)*new peak*
156(-38) Zach Bryan - Burn, Burn, Burn 346,531 (-62,080)
158(-17) Taylor Swift - Lover 339,813 (-43,282)
160(-20) Zach Bryan - Revival 338,820 (-44,877)
167(+6) Peso Pluma - RUBICON 337,056 (-11,627)
171(-25) Steve Lacy - Infrunami 335,374 (-40,885)
172(+12) Sexyy Redd - SkeeYee 334,181 (-6,788)*new peak*
173(-10) Lil Uzi Vert - Flooded the Face 331,217 (-25,814)
175(-11) Peso Pluma, Junior H - LUNA 330,745 (-26,174)
183(re-entry) Jimin - Like Crazy 320,534
187(-25) Jordan Davis - Next Thing You Know 318,184 (-40,272)
198(-31) Taylor Swift - Lavender Haze 307,356 (-46,223)
200(-22) Taylor Swift - Getaway Car 305,483 (-40,661)

[mms82]

Day 2, Margaritaville at 7 on US Spotify.

Really really hoping this can re-enter in honor of Jimmy

[velaxti]

Sept 3, 2023 18:20:54 GMT -5 neel said:

Sept 3, 2023 17:56:33 GMT -5 velaxti said:

I would say Maneskin are very successful, even in the charts. Beggin' was a big hit in the US. I Wanna Be Your Slave probably would've been too but they didn't want to release it in the US due to the whole "slave" thing, but it was a big hit in every other Western country,

The charts can be like that sometimes.

Even in the world of pop music. In the early 10's Drake was absolutely massive but a lot of his biggest hits struggled to make top 10 or missed completely, whilst Flo Rida and Pitbull were effortlessly racking up massive hits despite being nowhere near as big as him in the real world. That changed later of course, but there are others like Lana Del Rey, Frank Ocean, Skrillex, etc, who are really famous and well-known but didn't do much in the charts usually.

I wouldn't be opposed to them counting live concerts in the Hot 100, but I don't think it'd make a big difference anyway. It would depend on how they weight it I suppose. Other things they could count are jukeboxes, night club airplay (although I think this would be impossible to track anywhere near accurately).

Doja Cat gets hit after hit, but (and this is in NO way meant as an insult) almost all her singles somehow go viral on TikTok, they're TikTok candy. It's a TINY bit like how Flo Rida, Pitbull, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, how they used to release radio candy to get lots of hits 10+ yeas ago. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha were accused of the same. Doja Cat is a bit like that but with TikTok, and that's the easiest way to get hits these days. In fact, Maneskin's two biggest chart hits initially took off after going viral on TikTok a couple of weeks after Eurovision.

It's happened to all of us when a song or artist seems absolutely massive and inescapable but the charts don't reflect it. It's annoying, but I just have to accept it really.

The Billboard Hot 100 doesn’t mean shit. Simple as that.

That’s why it’s funny when you see these chart-obsessed stans having a dick measuring contest with it.

I think saying the Hot 100 is entirely meaningless is a bit over the top. But yes, it's not the be all and end all. And it's not fully accurate. Gangnam Style, for example, was probably the biggest song last decade and it didn't even reach #1 on the weekly charts, let alone year-end and decade-end (to be fair, they did change the Hot 100 calculation quite drastically shortly after to rectify this).

For me at this stage it's basically a hobby more than anything. I haven't actually heard a lot of the big hits songs recently (e.g. Life Is Good, You Proof, Ghost, Butter, What's Poppin, etc), but I can still tell you when they peaked, when they were released, how many weeks in the top 10, etc. It's kind of funny really. When I first got into the charts I was really invested in pop music at the time. Now I've lost a lot of interest in pop music, but I still like the statistical aspect of it and have fun checking what's going on. But I would say it's not worth getting stressed over. When I actually was into pop music, I used to get really annoyed when artists who were really popular were hardly charting, so I do understand the frustration. It's a lot better if you just let go of it all and try and not take it too seriously.

[Gary]

No formula is going to be 100% accurate for everybody. This is one way to measure popularity and of course there are others. There is no actual right answer.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates « 2023 » / « 09 » / « 04 »

1(=) Luke Combs - Fast Car 97.77(-0.73)
2(+1) Taylor Swift - Cruel Summer 83.94(+0.15)
3(-1) Rema & Selena Gomez - Calm Down 83.69(-1.00)
4(=) SZA - Snooze 73.81(-0.50)
5(=) Dua Lipa - Dance The Night 72.69(+0.20)
6(=) Olivia Rodrigo - vampire 68.21(-0.27)
7(=) Miley Cyrus - Flowers 59.66(-0.63)
8(=) Morgan Wallen - Last Night 56.96(-0.66)
9(=) Lil Durk - All My Life (feat. J. Cole) 55.02(-0.42)
10(=) Jelly Roll - Need A Favor 54.63(+0.11)

15(+1) Kane Brown - Bury Me in Georgia (Single Edit) 42.31(+0.83)

23(+3) Jason Aldean - Try That In A Small Town 31.76(+0.71)

32(+3) Miley Cyrus - Used To Be Young 25.85(+1.23)

50(+5) Selena Gomez - Single Soon 21.07(+0.98)

-(-) Timbaland, Nelly Furtado & Justin Timberlake - Keep Going Up 9.31(+1.95) +

-(-) Ice Spice - Deli 4.88(+2.12) +

-(-) The National - The Alcott f/Taylor Swift 0.89(+0.79) +

[mag]

It always happens with Rock bands. I remember Yellowcard’s biggest hit only made it to # 23 yet it was huge. Same thing with Korn, Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, etc… one may think (by looking at the hot 100) that they’re not successful but their shows are massive.

[85la]

The one more thing I'll add to this is that I guess Billboard doesn't publish weekly Boxscore numbers anymore? That's something I guess they could highlight a little more, as well as including it in the formula for the weekly Artist 100 chart, which I'm not sure they've ever done.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

^Actually, they do some version of it, but yes they don't make it easy to find:

Current Boxscore

[neel]

Sept 4, 2023 7:51:00 GMT -5 mms82 said:

Day 2, Margaritaville at 7 on US Spotify.

Really really hoping this can re-enter in honor of Jimmy

I didn’t even think he was going re-enter inside the Top 50. Country music is just that big in 2023.

[jdanton2]

Sept 4, 2023 15:29:00 GMT -5 neel said:

Sept 4, 2023 7:51:00 GMT -5 mms82 said:

Day 2, Margaritaville at 7 on US Spotify.

Really really hoping this can re-enter in honor of Jimmy

I didn’t even think he was going re-enter inside the Top 50. Country music is just that big in 2023.

song is country but it actually peaked higher on the Hot 100 and ac .

Hot 100 #8
ac #1
country #13

[badrobot]

This would probably be problematic as hell and hard to calculate, but I wish there was a way to get a Gay Hits genre chart. Probably the dance charts get close to that, but I know a lot of my friends look at the Hot 100 confused because songs they’ve never heard hit #1 (all this country) while massive hits in the gay community (Padam springs to mind) miss the chart entirely.