shanz88
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Post by shanz88 on Mar 11, 2024 7:37:39 GMT -5
I mean, a Target exclusive edition should be no surprise to *anyone* at this point--she's done a Target exclusive edition going all the way back to debut, and she is far from the only one who does some sort of Target exclusive. Why is she the one catching flak for this? Is it because she's the one on top right now? This is just a color variant version, no bonus track that is exclusive to this version alone. It has handwritten lyric sheets and exclusive photos. If a fan is that strong of a fan that they feel the desire to purchase this in addition to your "standard" vinyl with The Manuscript bonus track, they are not someone we all need to "look out for" or criticize Taylor for. Artists have been doing this for decades; it is a tale as old as time. Because this is the fifth exclusive album? She could charge $1,000 for the cheapest Eras tour ticket and still sell out, doesn't mean she should just because "there's money on the table". Her claims of it being what helped save her or whatever breaking up with Joe, and it coming across as this authentic deep dive into her soul gets diluted when she releases multiples of the same album with one extra song because "money is on the table". She is quite literally a billionare, I think she can afford to not have multiple exclusive versions of the same album with one new track on each Tracklisting often tells a story, it's why Adele got Spotify to remove the auto-shuffle feature on new albums. Artists usually carefully select tracklists so as to sculpt a certain story and sound of the album. That goes out the window when multiple songs are tacked on after the fact. It was bearable with Midnights, as Hits Different was a Target bonus track and we have grown used to them. And while I hate how they rolled it out, You're Losing Me very much feels like a track that wasn't ever supposed to see the light of day, so it makes sense to be excluded from the original tracklist. Where do these five bonus tracks fit in the story of The Tortured Poets Department? Will they all become available at once? How long will we need to wait for all of them to be available on streaming? Will we ever get a complete album There is no reason to do this other than money, and that to me is greed, and lowkey chart/record manipulation. Agree to disagree if you think otherwise, but again, she is a billionaire. She doesn't need more money than the millions she is already going to earn from this album. It will break records without her stooping to five duplicate albums with a bonus track each. It's pointless, frustrating and not a good look. And there’s nothing exclusive about it that sets it apart from the original release available from the night she announced it, besides the color of the vinyl and possibly the handwritten lyric copies. I even hesitate on that last part because it appears to be verbatim to the original release, so who knows if it even will be unique to the Target exclusive. But even if it is, it’s just EXTRAS. Not exclusive music, just extra collectible stuff. Stuff that will just collect dust, unless you choose to display it somehow. And if you are the kind of fan that chooses to want every little unique thing to any potential release, then that is the risk you choose to take on. That’s not Taylor’s fault. Not. Buying. Every. Single. Release. Does. Not. Make. You. Any. Less. Of. A. Fan. Let’s not act like people don’t have their own agency here. Stop holding an artist, a businesswoman, responsible for people who may or may not have psychological issues that stand in their way of making responsible decisions with their money. I don’t care whether she’s a billionaire or has a net worth of “only” $500K, this is her business and how she wants to operate it. If you don’t like it, she’s not forcing your hand. And again, my only point was that you shouldn’t have been surprised this was coming. She has done a Target exclusive of some sort for her entire career. Not to mention, you acted like *this* exclusive was the straw that broke the camel’s back for you and ruined your excitement for the album, although you certainly had complaints about the other versions and made them known. I didn’t say anything then because although I don’t fault her for conducting business how she wants to, I saw validity in your claims. But now it just comes off as you complaining for the sake of complaining.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 8:01:02 GMT -5
This version will never be available in Ireland where that user is based. It's also just a different color. The Manuscript is NOT a fifth bonus track
I'm personally not buying the whole "How will I know which one to buy" shtick
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 11, 2024 8:11:16 GMT -5
Telling someone to stop making money because they made enough already is foolish. She's good at it, so she can make as much of it as she wants as long as people are willing to give it to her. Just because she can make only millions does not mean she can't try to make more billions. I mean, I don’t think this was ever the point of the conversation anyway, but I also checked out before it started going in circles so maybe I’m totally off base.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Mar 11, 2024 8:14:10 GMT -5
Telling someone to stop making money because they made enough already is foolish. She's good at it, so she can make as much of it as she wants as long as people are willing to give it to her. Just because she can make only millions does not mean she can't try to make more billions. I also think that as there is a large majority of her fans who want this. They want the different versions, they want the different colors, etc. I am not one of those people (I will listen to the standard on Apple and Spotify) and while I understand some people find it annoying, there are just as many (probably way more) who want this. They want to add to their collection and have them all.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 11, 2024 8:22:38 GMT -5
Because this is the fifth exclusive album? She could charge $1,000 for the cheapest Eras tour ticket and still sell out, doesn't mean she should just because "there's money on the table". Her claims of it being what helped save her or whatever breaking up with Joe, and it coming across as this authentic deep dive into her soul gets diluted when she releases multiples of the same album with one extra song because "money is on the table". She is quite literally a billionare, I think she can afford to not have multiple exclusive versions of the same album with one new track on each Tracklisting often tells a story, it's why Adele got Spotify to remove the auto-shuffle feature on new albums. Artists usually carefully select tracklists so as to sculpt a certain story and sound of the album. That goes out the window when multiple songs are tacked on after the fact. It was bearable with Midnights, as Hits Different was a Target bonus track and we have grown used to them. And while I hate how they rolled it out, You're Losing Me very much feels like a track that wasn't ever supposed to see the light of day, so it makes sense to be excluded from the original tracklist. Where do these five bonus tracks fit in the story of The Tortured Poets Department? Will they all become available at once? How long will we need to wait for all of them to be available on streaming? Will we ever get a complete album There is no reason to do this other than money, and that to me is greed, and lowkey chart/record manipulation. Agree to disagree if you think otherwise, but again, she is a billionaire. She doesn't need more money than the millions she is already going to earn from this album. It will break records without her stooping to five duplicate albums with a bonus track each. It's pointless, frustrating and not a good look. And there’s nothing exclusive about it that sets it apart from the original release available from the night she announced it, besides the color of the vinyl and possibly the handwritten lyric copies. I even hesitate on that last part because it appears to be verbatim to the original release, so who knows if it even will be unique to the Target exclusive. But even if it is, it’s just EXTRAS. Not exclusive music, just extra collectible stuff. Stuff that will just collect dust, unless you choose to display it somehow. And if you are the kind of fan that chooses to want every little unique thing to any potential release, then that is the risk you choose to take on. That’s not Taylor’s fault. Not. Buying. Every. Single. Release. Does. Not. Make. You. Any. Less. Of. A. Fan. Let’s not act like people don’t have their own agency here. Stop holding an artist, a businesswoman, responsible for people who may or may not have psychological issues that stand in their way of making responsible decisions with their money. I don’t care whether she’s a billionaire or has a net worth of “only” $500K, this is her business and how she wants to operate it. If you don’t like it, she’s not forcing your hand. And again, my only point was that you shouldn’t have been surprised this was coming. She has done a Target exclusive of some sort for her entire career. Not to mention, you acted like *this* exclusive was the straw that broke the camel’s back for you and ruined your excitement for the album, although you certainly had complaints about the other versions and made them known. I didn’t say anything then because although I don’t fault her for conducting business how she wants to, I saw validity in your claims. But now it just comes off as you complaining for the sake of complaining. Yeah, I'd have to agree with this for the most part. I understand where Dylan :) is coming from when he comments on it tarnishing the artistic integrity of the project - and I don't disagree with that either. That's why I felt how I did when Taylor released the "Lover" remix with Shawn Mendes. I felt the song had a genuineness about it that, when the remix was rushed out to try to attain a higher chart peak, it felt cheap to me -- which those remixes always feel cheap, but the song felt authentic enough to me that by turning it more into a product to be a sold than a heartfelt moment in song, it kind of tarnished it a bit (temporarily. I still love the song. The Lover album can do no wrong for me). HOWEVER, before someone comes flying in to criticize me over that, I am fully aware that that feeling was my problem and no one else's. I know that any recording artist will do what they must to maximize sales, numbers, finances, etc, etc, etc. They're still a business and they still must do what they determine is necessary to continue being successful. So it really comes down to us individually to decide FOR OURSELVES whether we're okay with marketing/profits in the music we enjoy and if so, how much? (Though imo, if one really held artistic integrity and authenticity in music on a pedestal, they shouldn't use the biggest pop star in the world as a prime example and be surprised when their expectations are shaken,) What we're seeing with the multiple versions of this album each with their own exclusive track is possibly where the line is for Taylor fans. Is TTPD roll-out different than previous albums? Maybe? Maybe not? Some fans seem to think so. They'll find out soon enough whether the roll-out they're employing this time around can work and will adjust as necessary for the next album. tl;dr, if it bothers you, don't buy into it.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Mar 11, 2024 8:46:33 GMT -5
This version will never be available in Ireland where that user is based. It's also just a different color. The Manuscript is NOT a fifth bonus track I'm personally not buying the whole "How will I know which one to buy" shtick I misinterpreted her, apologies. It’s in fact four bonus tracks, not five. Anyway, 4 or 5, I still stand by my points, which has nothing to do with me actually being able to access them (e.g. I heard Hits Different long before it became available on Spotify) tl;dr, if it bothers you, don't buy into it. Just to be clear, I am self aware. I know I’ve made this point several times and clearly people don’t agree en masse, and that’s fine. So for the sake of not derailing this thread any further, I’ll stop now. However, you are right, Rose. I do need to just not buy into it (and I have zero intention of buying them). I have no issue with bonus tracks existing. Every artist ever has probably had bonus tracks before, including Taylor. The albums I love most, Folklore and Evermore, even had bonus tracks! My issue though, and this could be my incorrect interpretation, is that this was a personal album that was used by Taylor as a way to get through and heal from her breakup with Joe. Her releasing the same vinyl four* times with an additional track on each dilutes the authenticity of the work, and the importance of the storytelling and structure. It makes it seem like this little window into her soul that she’s taking advantage of. The way she live-streamed the announcements just rubbed me the wrong way. It just makes the whole thing feel fake, disingenuous and.. icky. Idk But again, that’s clearly a me problem, so I’ll drop it now. I will just add, since it’s clear theflying is trying to push this narrative, it has NOTHING to do with the fact Taylor is a woman
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Mar 11, 2024 8:47:34 GMT -5
Integrity and authenticity being the opposite of commercial success is a false paradigm and it’s shocking to me that a Taylor Swift fan would think that, considering her massive success is *because* she had artistic integrity and authenticity.
I don’t think anyone thinks it subconsciously. I don’t think this wouldn’t happen if it were a men. But the whole point is that the standards women are held to mean they can literally never win. If they don’t go for money, they don’t know their worth. If they make too much money, they’re greedy. She’s running a business. Ascribing her run of the mill business decisions like how to release music as any kind of reflection of her personal character is just so unneccesary after we’ve seen her being mega famous for 20 years.
You don’t like a money grab? You don’t agree with her decision? That’s anyone’s prerogative. It shouldn’t have anything to do with her “personally” being greedy, which flies in the face of everything we know about her character. This woman is constantly donating, giving massive bonuses, and compensating people well since the beginning of her career.
But because some people don’t like some extra releases she’s greedy.
I’m not being performative, I’m not trying to be malicious, I’m not trying to be inflammatory — it’s a subconscious thing at work, because ascribing it to her flies in the face of everything we know.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Mar 11, 2024 8:53:26 GMT -5
Integrity and authenticity being the opposite of commercial success is a false paradigm and it’s shocking to me that a Taylor Swift fan would think that, considering her massive success is *because* she had artistic integrity and authenticity. Not what I’m saying. There’s a big difference from being successful *because of* your authenticity and artistic integrity, than eroding a project’s authenticity for commercial gain
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 11, 2024 8:53:45 GMT -5
Integrity and authenticity being the opposite of commercial success is a false paradigm and it’s shocking to me that a Taylor Swift fan would think that, considering her massive success is *because* she had artistic integrity and authenticity. Which is what this entire conversation is about because people who see her as someone whose success is based on artistic integrity and authenticity are suddenly questioning that because of how the new albums are being marketed. It's okay that you don't agree with that but one's interpretation of that is one's to own. Our individual lines for what works and what doesn't work aren't all the same. I don’t think anyone thinks it subconsciously. I don’t think this wouldn’t happen if it were a men. But the whole point is that the standards women are held to mean they can literally never win. If they don’t go for money, they don’t know their worth. If they make too much money, they’re greedy. She’s running a business. Ascribing her run of the mill business decisions like how to release music as any kind of reflection of her personal character is just so unneccesary after we’ve seen her being mega famous for 20 years. You don’t like a money grab? You don’t agree with her decision? That’s anyone’s prerogative. It shouldn’t have anything to do with her “personally” being greedy, which flies in the face of everything we know about her character. This woman is constantly donating, giving massive bonuses, and compensating people well since the beginning of her career. But because some people don’t like some extra releases she’s greedy. I’m not being performative, I’m not trying to be malicious, I’m not trying to be inflammatory — it’s a subconscious thing at work, because ascribing it to her flies in the face of everything we know. Obviously we can't know unless we're in a situation where a male artist many of us stan was doing the same thing, but it's kind of telling that you continue to push this narrative despite numerous people insisting against it. It's almost like you've subconsciously decided that fans of successful female pop stars could never be intelligent enough to have their own thoughts about the music and artists they like. Fans of male musicials would never have their opinions questioned in this way. To me, it comes across as an empty attempt to diminish arguments people have about situations that they are fully justified in feeling.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Mar 11, 2024 8:55:09 GMT -5
Integrity and authenticity being the opposite of commercial success is a false paradigm and it’s shocking to me that a Taylor Swift fan would think that, considering her massive success is *because* she had artistic integrity and authenticity. Not what I’m saying. There’s a big difference from being successful *because of* your authenticity and artistic integrity, than eroding a project’s authenticity for commercial gain I’m happy you’re aware this is a “you” thing, because, otherwise I’d say evidence of it being more of a hang up about you is that you literally haven’t heard the record but you’ve already judged its authenticity and whether or not it’s been eroded.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Mar 11, 2024 8:56:26 GMT -5
Integrity and authenticity being the opposite of commercial success is a false paradigm and it’s shocking to me that a Taylor Swift fan would think that, considering her massive success is *because* she had artistic integrity and authenticity. Which is what this entire conversation is about because people who see her as someone whose success is based on artistic integrity and authenticity are suddenly questioning that because of how the new albums are being marketed. It's okay that you don't agree with that but one's interpretation of that is one's to own. Our individual lines for what works and what doesn't work aren't all the same. Exactly. Taking from her Wikipedia page on the album: This all feels like a lie when she’s then releasing multiples of the same album with additional tracks on each. It erodes, TO ME, the genuineness of her claim, and so my perception of the album Not even beginning to look at the environmental impact of producing multiple copies of the same album with one track difference Not what I’m saying. There’s a big difference from being successful *because of* your authenticity and artistic integrity, than eroding a project’s authenticity for commercial gain I’m happy you’re aware this is a “you” thing, because, otherwise I’d say evidence of it being more of a hang up about you is that you literally haven’t heard the record but you’ve already judged its authenticity and whether or not it’s been eroded. Why do I need to hear the album to judge its commercial rollout/marketing? And even coming back to greed. Why does it have to be four bonus albums? Why can’t it be the original plus a bonus album other than to make more money? Does she have the right to do that? Absolutely. Do I have the right to consider that greedy and a flaw of the capitalist system? Absolutely
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Mar 11, 2024 8:59:57 GMT -5
Your words I quoted are about you judging the authenticity of the record. You haven’t heard the record to judge how authentic it is or not.
You have a hang up about something. It’s not entirely grounded. It’s fine. But let’s not act like you’ve made a logical claim when talking about the authenticity of a project you’ve literally never heard.
You keep swerving to her character and the merits of the actual artistry. They really don’t have anything to do with a business decision of releasing different covers my dude lol.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Mar 11, 2024 9:04:24 GMT -5
Your words I quoted are about you judging the authenticity of the record. You haven’t heard the record to judge how authentic it is or not. You have a hang up about something. It’s not entirely grounded. It’s fine. But let’s not act like you’ve made a logical claim when talking about the authenticity of a project you’ve literally never heard. I was going to write out how you’re misinterpreting my point, but I don’t care anymore. I don’t need to justify it to you, nor do you need to justify your position to me. I will say, if you think this is about different album covers, you haven’t been listening to me. I’m done now. I won’t be responding to this conversation anymore. Not to be rude, more just because we’re going around in circles and all wasting our time, and that’s primarily my fault. Have a nice day, and whole many of you probably assume otherwise, I will be eagerly awaiting the release of the album
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Mar 11, 2024 18:13:09 GMT -5
By the way, I apologize if it came across at all like I was trying to deny your feelings. I’m not trying to take away anyone’s feelings about the rollouts. I just wish we could separate an opinion about a relatively run of the mill but somewhat divisive business decision, from her personal character. She’s been world famous for like 15 years now — we know her character. Her releasing some album varieties, whatever one feels about it, shouldn’t be linked to the peeling back of some previously unforeseen character flaw.
She’s just doing her job.
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Grün
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Post by Grün on Mar 12, 2024 18:50:55 GMT -5
I kinda wish she wouldn't have announced this album because if you aren't going to release a single or snippets - it is excruciating to wait.
I know the only reason she announced early was for the vinyl sales. However, the waiting is killing me haha.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Mar 12, 2024 21:14:02 GMT -5
I think people need to come to terms with the fact there are two prominent sides to Taylor: the artistic side and the business side. Those two sides, neither in my opinion less prominent than the other, are what made Taylor as successful and revered as she is today. She absolutely takes her art/work seriously and it is definitely deeply personal/special to her and one can see that in everything she's ever said and in her actions throughout the years: protecting her work and its authenticity. With that said, she has mentioned several times now she loves marketing and that whole process and she's most definitely the head behind a billion dollar industry and she has to act like it. I don't doubt for a second, for instance, that all the egg drops leading into each era aren't merely just another way for her to connect personally with her fan base, but an additional way to build repore and cultivate a relationship which her audience which inevitably leads to more consistent sales through a strengthened bond. She's brilliant at marketing herself and fostering the growth of her wealth and business. Now with most businessmen that's seen as a strength, but with Taylor (and arguably a lot of other women) its lead to her being called "calculated", "staged", "phony", and a million other negatively-based adjectives. At the end of the day it's more personal opinion than anything whether you view her business acumen as a positive or negative thing. Personally, I think it's another strength she has. It's exactly how she became a billionaire on the back of her music alone. I can see how some fans are annoyed with multiple editions, but frankly it's the new standard and some are simply going to be miserable going forward because it's not changing and is only becoming more prevalent. Could it be seen as a money hungry move? Sure. But it's up to the artist not the fan to set the price of their work and how it's distributed. It's just another way for artists and their labels to recoup revenue (not that they necessarily need it, but that's the purpose).
I can separate the artistic and commerical sides so I don't think it cheapens the art at all. Personally multiple ediitons don't bother me because if I don't want to financially support them, I don't have to. I'm not pressed about needing every track of an era on one album, especially in the era of playlisting and downloads. I say let the artist handle their art however they feel is best and I will decide if I want to support it or participate in it afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2024 1:11:54 GMT -5
I kinda wish she wouldn't have announced this album because if you aren't going to release a single or snippets - it is excruciating to wait. I know the only reason she announced early was for the vinyl sales. However, the waiting is killing me haha. I agree that the wait sucks and perhaps might kill some hype
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Post by suburbandreams on Mar 13, 2024 1:31:44 GMT -5
I kinda wish she wouldn't have announced this album because if you aren't going to release a single or snippets - it is excruciating to wait. I know the only reason she announced early was for the vinyl sales. However, the waiting is killing me haha. I agree that the wait sucks and perhaps might kill some hype Lead singles kill more hype nowadays. Yes and especially killed so much hype for Ariana's album leading to a lackluster first day debut before the quality of the album reignited it. She definitely planned to repeat a midnight madness style tease with the track titles but those got leaked before she even announced the album. Album names are fun for ttpd so I would have enjoyed it more than midnights madness. But anyway, people still felt that way during the wait for midnights but didn't stop the first day from having record setting streams . hype will pick up again once we actually get to release week.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Mar 13, 2024 2:26:20 GMT -5
I think people need to come to terms with the fact there are two prominent sides to Taylor: the artistic side and the business side. Those two sides, neither in my opinion less prominent than the other, are what made Taylor as successful and revered as she is today. She absolutely takes her art/work seriously and it is definitely deeply personal/special to her and one can see that in everything she's ever said and in her actions throughout the years: protecting her work and its authenticity. With that said, she has mentioned several times now she loves marketing and that whole process and she's most definitely the head behind a billion dollar industry and she has to act like it. I don't doubt for a second, for instance, that all the egg drops leading into each era aren't merely just another way for her to connect personally with her fan base, but an additional way to build repore and cultivate a relationship which her audience which inevitably leads to more consistent sales through a strengthened bond. She's brilliant at marketing herself and fostering the growth of her wealth and business. Now with most businessmen that's seen as a strength, but with Taylor (and arguably a lot of other women) its lead to her being called "calculated", "staged", "phony", and a million other negatively-based adjectives. At the end of the day it's more personal opinion than anything whether you view her business acumen as a positive or negative thing. Personally, I think it's another strength she has. It's exactly how she became a billionaire on the back of her music alone. I can see how some fans are annoyed with multiple editions, but frankly it's the new standard and some are simply going to be miserable going forward because it's not changing and is only becoming more prevalent. Could it be seen as a money hungry move? Sure. But it's up to the artist not the fan to set the price of their work and how it's distributed. It's just another way for artists and their labels to recoup revenue (not that they necessarily need it, but that's the purpose). I can separate the artistic and commerical sides so I don't think it cheapens the art at all. Personally multiple ediitons don't bother me because if I don't want to financially support them, I don't have to. I'm not pressed about needing every track of an era on one album, especially in the era of playlisting and downloads. I say let the artist handle their art however they feel is best and I will decide if I want to support it or participate in it afterwards. This is so well-stated, bravo!
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Mar 13, 2024 3:24:33 GMT -5
Really great post.
Also, something that I feel like never gets brought up, and I understand it’s speculative, but still:
Taylor is on a label. She must have SOME obligations to them as part of her contract.
Really really don’t discount that the multiple editions is something she might have to do contractually for her label, especially considering she owns her music; the label would probably need additional revenue streams. I could be wrong! But there are definitely business considerations other than “Taylor Swift wants more money”. I honestly think it being a requirement by Republic is the most likely option.
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Post by suburbandreams on Mar 13, 2024 3:42:14 GMT -5
Really great post. Also, something that I feel like never gets brought up, and I understand it’s speculative, but still: Taylor is on a label. She must have SOME obligations to them as part of her contract. Really really don’t discount that the multiple editions is something she might have to do contractually for her label, especially considering she owns her music; the label would probably need additional revenue streams. I could be wrong! But there are definitely business considerations other than “Taylor Swift wants more money”. I honestly think it being a requirement by Republic is the most likely option Her label isn't making her but it isn't about the money (she didn't even notify republic about folklore until a day before its release). One tour date makes her more money than all the variant sales. She gave her worker for just one tour leg bonuses that will cost her more than 10 times the amount she will make in variant sales. It's simply about increasing sales to help ensure that the album is successful . Ariana, Beyonce, Billie, Olivia all have the same number if not more variants for that exact same reason. It's simply an easy way to increase first week sales which help creates hype around an album which hopefully help its longevity (see the hate ariana was getting for her initial projections that were beneath 200k before streaming picked up). But for them, they simply sell far less since their fandoms are smaller. Variants boost sales but aren't a magic way to a million sales. Pop artists fundamentally want their music to be listened to by a wide audience. They all use marketing tactics to ensure it. The vast majority of fans don't even buy one physical copy. And then the rest mostly buy the main cover and then almost everyone else just buying the variant they like most with only a small percentage buying multiple copies. Variants are big now because right now music is pratically given away for free with streaming and so vinyl and cd are collector objects not a true way for listening to music. Variants, limited editions etc are inherent to modern collector objects whether its cds, dolls or trading cards. With music itself being free, I find people complaining about collector items that they don't have to buy tiresome. If you don't like them, don't buy them.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Mar 13, 2024 4:17:47 GMT -5
I think this was discussed before by others but I’ve been listening to 1989 TV a lot lately. I’m currently on a shuffle listen. While the vault tracks remain my least favourite of all of the vault tracks released so far, they’ve grown on me a lot. However, the point discussed by others - they don’t feel like 1989. Obviously the production doesn’t 100% match because they were produced nearly 10 years apart. However, the lyrics and themes feel weird too. Especially Is It Over Now and Say Don’t Go. They stand out as non-OG tracks in ways that aren’t felt for the other three re-records in my opinion. Obviously these songs existed in some form in 2014, but I wonder how much of them were. They feel much more like modern day Taylor than 2014 Taylor
Not saying that’s a bad thing, though! I just wonder what others think, and I wonder if it will be similar for the next two re-records. Debut is especially at risk for this because of the big gap, but realistically so was Fearless and that all sounded cohesive so time means nothing
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Mar 13, 2024 6:30:38 GMT -5
I think this was discussed before by others but I’ve been listening to 1989 TV a lot lately. I’m currently on a shuffle listen. While the vault tracks remain my least favourite of all of the vault tracks released so far, they’ve grown on me a lot. However, the point discussed by others - they don’t feel like 1989. Obviously the production doesn’t 100% match because they were produced nearly 10 years apart. However, the lyrics and themes feel weird too. Especially Is It Over Now and Say Don’t Go. They stand out as non-OG tracks in ways that aren’t felt for the other three re-records in my opinion. Obviously these songs existed in some form in 2014, but I wonder how much of them were. They feel much more like modern day Taylor than 2014 Taylor Not saying that’s a bad thing, though! I just wonder what others think, and I wonder if it will be similar for the next two re-records. Debut is especially at risk for this because of the big gap, but realistically so was Fearless and that all sounded cohesive so time means nothing I mean, I mostly agree with this. Nobody can convince me that ATW10MV was fully written as is in 2012.
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Post by suburbandreams on Mar 13, 2024 9:33:33 GMT -5
I think this was discussed before by others but I’ve been listening to 1989 TV a lot lately. I’m currently on a shuffle listen. While the vault tracks remain my least favourite of all of the vault tracks released so far, they’ve grown on me a lot. However, the point discussed by others - they don’t feel like 1989. Obviously the production doesn’t 100% match because they were produced nearly 10 years apart. However, the lyrics and themes feel weird too. Especially Is It Over Now and Say Don’t Go. They stand out as non-OG tracks in ways that aren’t felt for the other three re-records in my opinion. Obviously these songs existed in some form in 2014, but I wonder how much of them were. They feel much more like modern day Taylor than 2014 Taylor Not saying that’s a bad thing, though! I just wonder what others think, and I wonder if it will be similar for the next two re-records. Debut is especially at risk for this because of the big gap, but realistically so was Fearless and that all sounded cohesive so time means nothing say don’t go was confirmed by Diane Warren to be a 100% written in that time period. Remember vault tracks were cut for a reason. Them not fitting the album makes perfect sense. For me, they are just the more personal versions of all you can do is stay and out of the woods. For debut, they are dozens of vault tracks from that era that we know about. Some of the fearless vault tracks were actually some of those ( fearless itself has several songs that were written pre fearless)
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 13, 2024 9:45:12 GMT -5
I'm sure some or most elements of the TVs are old but she's definitely touched up a few elements on some of them. ATW10M for sure, and I Can See You maybe. 1989 I'm not sure? They all sound same-y to me in that Jack Antonoff 1989-ish sound that was also there on I Wish You Would OG. Whether these songs match the original production they had with their scrapped OG versions we'll probably never know.
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Post by suburbandreams on Mar 13, 2024 10:18:53 GMT -5
I'm sure some or most elements of the TVs are old but she's definitely touched up a few elements on some of them. ATW10M for sure, and I Can See You maybe. 1989 I'm not sure? They all sound same-y to me in that Jack Antonoff 1989-ish sound that was also there on I Wish You Would OG. Whether these songs match the original production they had with their scrapped OG versions we'll probably never know. Production has definitely been touched up ( hell that’s why Jack and Aaron produce mostly vault not og tracks) but for several of the vaults likely never had a fully produced version in the first place. Hell she explicitly said that about “now that we don’t’ talk”. Lyrics and melody are what’s largely unchanged. We have track description for most of the vault songs for years from the inner circle and they all matched the released vault songs. Forever winter demo got leaked and it’s production is close to the releases version. ATW10M is a completely different case where she likely had some of the existing lyrics but had to rewrite it significantly.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 13, 2024 10:23:27 GMT -5
I kinda wish she wouldn't have announced this album because if you aren't going to release a single or snippets - it is excruciating to wait. I know the only reason she announced early was for the vinyl sales. However, the waiting is killing me haha. I agree that the wait sucks and perhaps might kill some hype tbqh we've said the same with every album since Midnights and they've all done well anyways. I'm OK with no lead. You'll never catch Taylor doing surprise releases again until her commercial fortunes start to decline because she knows she'll sell a lot more with vinyl and preorders.
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clsvltn
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Post by clsvltn on Mar 13, 2024 11:08:48 GMT -5
I do agree many songs have been re-worked or "finished" - but in the case of ATW10 wasn't that known about for years? I thought the original version of the song was actually even longer as well wasn't it? I mean, I'm sure she did some tinkering as well but I think the songs themselves all existed in some form during their respective eras but were just completed and polished or revised for the actual release. I don't think anyone would want half baked demos that were not even finished to begin with so I don't really mind that aspect of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2024 12:27:35 GMT -5
I do agree many songs have been re-worked or "finished" - but in the case of ATW10 wasn't that known about for years? I thought the original version of the song was actually even longer as well wasn't it? I mean, I'm sure she did some tinkering as well but I think the songs themselves all existed in some form during their respective eras but were just completed and polished or revised for the actual release. I don't think anyone would want half baked demos that were not even finished to begin with so I don't really mind that aspect of it. Yes it's been known for years but the deniers think "patriarchy" was too ahead of its time for 2012 1950s shit indeed
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Mar 13, 2024 15:46:52 GMT -5
I do agree many songs have been re-worked or "finished" - but in the case of ATW10 wasn't that known about for years? I thought the original version of the song was actually even longer as well wasn't it? I mean, I'm sure she did some tinkering as well but I think the songs themselves all existed in some form during their respective eras but were just completed and polished or revised for the actual release. I don't think anyone would want half baked demos that were not even finished to begin with so I don't really mind that aspect of it. Yes it's been known for years but the deniers think "patriarchy" was too ahead of its time for 2012 1950s shit indeed I am the biggest Taylor Swift fan I know in my personal life and even I have the lingering suspicion that lines like “fuck the patriarchy” and “did the twin flame bruise paint you blue, just between us did the love affair maim you too?” were for sure later edits. I became a fan around Speak Now and to this day I tell people I became a fan because while some of the songwriting was juvenile, there were glimmering moments on SN where I said “wow that was terrifically said - let us leave her alone and see where she goes as a songwriter, because she has a wild amount of potential” and since SN she has obviously grown into the songwriting wonder she is today. Red was early days and I just don’t buy that she was capable of this level of songwriting back then. It’s too folklorian. Note: I think the Red album is gorgeously written for the most part, so it’s not a knock to that version of Taylor. The songwriter that she is today is just in another stratosphere. I also believe most of the ATW10MV we got was written back then, but she just altered and I think that’s fine? It can be both-and.
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