Taylor Swift – The Tortured Poets Department (April 19)

[Dylan :)]

Apr 19, 2024 7:38:02 GMT -5 August said:

Apr 19, 2024 7:29:51 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

I’m agreeing with you. Whether you think an album being cohesive both lyrically and sonically is a bad thing is not my problem.

Seriously no disrespect to you, everyone can love or dislike things for different reasons. I would say that cohesive may not be the right word is all. I think "repetitive" describes it better. In terms of recent releases, I would say cohesive would be a better descriptor for Cowboy Carter by Beyonce. She went with a country / R&B sound. It carries throughout, but the songs are distinctive from each other, but sound like they belong together in the same collection. I think with Taylor, they all mostly sound like the same song, as opposed to a collection of different pop songs that sound like they belong together. Structurally, they all mostly sound like one long verse as opposed to the typical pop song structure of verse, chorus, verse, chorus, etc. which makes you remember the hook of the song. Could be intentional as part of the theme of poetry, but the flip side is that it makes it all sound like one long song.

I feel the exact same about what I've heard from the first half. There's no uniqueness to the instrumentals, so everything mushes together. I found Midnights somewhat similar and some of the 1989 tracks. That's why I love the second half so much. Aaron does cohesive here, Jack does repetitive. Jack has made amazing songs with Taylor, but I think their working together has started to peak unless they really mix things up

thanK you aIMee is SOOOOOO good

[Rhythm Nation]

It's 31 (!!!) new songs. OF COURSE they will appear as one big grey blob at first. The songs will take shape as we get to know them. Give it time. True swifties will get their reward.

[JamaicaFunk²]

Apr 19, 2024 8:28:29 GMT -5 Rhythm Nation said:

It's 31 (!!!) new songs. OF COURSE they will appear as one big grey blob at first. The songs will take shape as we get to know them. Give it time. True swifties will get their reward.

To be fair, that criticism was mostly made before the second half came out.

[james518]

Alright Swifties, let’s not perpetuate a stereotype with blind support and inability to tolerate people’s personal criticisms 😁

I do agree the same Jack sound isn’t exactly what I was hoping for either

[bee]

Apr 19, 2024 8:25:29 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

Apr 19, 2024 7:38:02 GMT -5 August said:

Seriously no disrespect to you, everyone can love or dislike things for different reasons. I would say that cohesive may not be the right word is all. I think "repetitive" describes it better. In terms of recent releases, I would say cohesive would be a better descriptor for Cowboy Carter by Beyonce. She went with a country / R&B sound. It carries throughout, but the songs are distinctive from each other, but sound like they belong together in the same collection. I think with Taylor, they all mostly sound like the same song, as opposed to a collection of different pop songs that sound like they belong together. Structurally, they all mostly sound like one long verse as opposed to the typical pop song structure of verse, chorus, verse, chorus, etc. which makes you remember the hook of the song. Could be intentional as part of the theme of poetry, but the flip side is that it makes it all sound like one long song.

I feel the exact same about what I've heard from the first half. There's no uniqueness to the instrumentals, so everything mushes together. I found Midnights somewhat similar and some of the 1989 tracks. That's why I love the second half so much. Aaron does cohesive here, Jack does repetitive. Jack has made amazing songs with Taylor, but I think their working together has started to peak unless they really mix things up

thanK you aIMee is SOOOOOO good

I've only listened to all 31 songs once so the album may grow on me.

But right now I pretty much agree with all of this. Some of it's repetitive (Jack needs to go or just do less amount of songs with her). Very little stands out. Right now I'd say this could have been one album. I wish there was a big bridge somewhere like Cruel Summer or Is It Over Now.

The lyrics seem way more complex than previous albums which makes the whole album harder to digest. Not a bad thing but an observation.

I wish Post Malone had a bigger part in Fortnight.

[Enigma.]

Apr 19, 2024 7:36:05 GMT -5 Ling-Ling said:

Apr 18, 2024 18:43:36 GMT -5 Ling-Ling said:

I'm surprised by the divisive reaction to this, it's a very typical Taylor album. Maybe that's the issue? People wanted something more adventurous? Midnights meets Lover is probably the most apt description I've seen. I also disagree with the consensus that there aren't any hits on here, I hear a handful.

But overall, it's another okay/nice album from her. I'd probably trim it down to about 11/12 tracks. But yeah, she does need to switch it up. Listening to a lot of these songs, I felt like I could cut and paste elements of them into about a dozen other Taylor songs.

After listening to the full 31 tracks, I definitely hear folkmore in the mix too. The OG album already needed a trim, this needs a hacking, lol. A double album cannot work with this monotonous a sonic palette. This isn't cohesion, this is limited and lacks imagination. There's more to a song than words and her refusal to play with vocal variation, tempo, production, rhythm, interesting melodies, etc. is deadening. So much here feels recycled. Offering raw lyrical moments accomplishes nothing if you don't do anything interesting with them and I shouldn't have to live in a lyric sheet to make an album engaging. Quite frankly, she's just not a fascinating enough vocalist/persona to sell this without some real musical oomph.

THANK YOU for saying this out loud. I cannot think of any other star that refuses to change the tempo in her songs. Maybe Lana but her strengths lay elsewhere.

[JamaicaFunk²]

Can someone help dissect “I Hate It Here”? The connection to “Paris” and the wrong lyric presented on streaming. Hmmm
Even the melody switches to “Paris” briefly (like we were in… Paris. Like we were some….where else)

And the connection between tracks 13: I can do it with a broken heart and Mastermind.

[bluepoet]

Is it too early to start taking about our favourite tracks? From Vol (TBG Edition), I think right now mine are:


1. Guilty as Sin?
2. So Long, London
3. The Black Dog 
4. But Daddy I Love Him
5. Fortnight

[August]

I am never going to be a Swiftie, I am just a pop music fan. I am not of the school that thinks everything she does is amazing and the deepest set of songs on the planet. I generally like her music and find her entertaining. I personally do not think she is a musical genius, but I do think she is talented and makes some catchy stuff. Just wish she would mix it up a bit.

However, I do give her a TON of credit for challenging how the music industry is run. She has challenged the methods around ticket sales, film releases (such as partnering with a theater chain rather than a movie studio) so that her film can be distributed in a way that benefits her and her work, the way streaming royalties work, owning her own music, etc. If she suddenly announced she was going to switch her focus from making music to running a record label or media company, I would say she would be fantastically successful at it. The girl knows how to milk an album release and have multiple variations of an album (not the re-recordings) with an extra song here and there and her fans eat it all up.

Courtney love did a recent interview where she basically insulted every major female popstar. A lot of it was misguided, but she said something that I think is correct. She called Taylor Swift today's Madonna. I would agree with that. Not in terms of sexuality or provocation, but in the way that she just owns her career and does't seem to take sh*t from anybody and her ability to get people to listen to her. In that regard, I would say she is far closer to an artist like Madonna than Lady Gaga ever was.

[clsvltn]

I definitely agree in the quality over quantity. There are very few, if any, artists that truly can benefit from such bloated albums. I have not heard the 2 am tracks yet but at the same time, I do appreciate an artist truly feeding their fans and not the 10 track 30 min albums and then a 5 year wait for something else.

[surfy]

i have only listened to the standard edition, i feel like the album is asleep at the wheel which is annoying. just kind of droning on, and i blame that on both Jack and Taylor.

Melodrama + a smattering of Lana’s NFR/Chemtrails + folklore (all Jack led production, go figure) and you have this album, but i don’t think it reaches the highs of any of these projects yet. just feels like i’ve heard this album before.

it’s not bad, but nothing truly exciting. i don’t see myself listening to this as an album again, i’ll probably choose my favs and add them to my playlist. time will tell.

[Dylan :)]

Currently listening from start to finish and I'll rank it. However, what are people's initials thoughts on the impact of this on The Eras Tour? I can't imagine what she'd add yet!

[schnetzka]

Favorites (from the standard edition):

"MY BOY ONLY BREAKS HIS FAVORITE TOYS"
"SO LONG, LONDON"
"WHO'S AFRAID OF LITTLE OLD ME?"
"I CAN DO IT WITH A BROKEN HEART"

--

I knew when I went to bed last night that I was going to wake up to more than just 16 songs from Miss Never Stops Working. What I did not anticipate was basically a complete other album lol. I've only listened to the album once so my thoughts will probably change overtime but as of right now, I do not like 'The Anthology' as much as I like the standard edition - which I know is the complete opposite opinion than pretty much everyone else. Having said that, I will need time with the album overall. I love 'Midnights' and so I had higher expectations for this album going into it but it did not wow me as much as I hoping. But, I know time will definitely change that. My favorites listened above and some of the other songs on the album will definitely be on repeat for me.

[August]

I wonder how much of this album was written and recorded on the road during Eras Tour (and during breaks) vs. it being from "the vault." She tends to be prolific in how much she has recorded and then puts aside for either a later release or maybe never see the light of day. This is a pretty long album to have been recorded during the never ending Era's Tour.

Just curious how she found the time.

[Ling-Ling]

I've got to give it up to stereogum, they nailed this in such a constructive way. Exactly how I feel about this album and where she's stuck artistically atm.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I came across this post on Twitter that seems to sum up what a lot of people are saying (but in a more respectful way than many lol)

I'm going to listen to the rest after today (including the additional 15) but so far, I think I agree. I think the songs are there, but while listening to the first bunch this morning, I kept going back to.. where are the instruments? Why aren't the melodies being emphasized by the production? It was just thin synth layers and basic drum beats. The few moments where things got livelier I was living for.
31 tracks is a lot too. Granted, 18 was a lot for Lover and I fell in love with every one. But Midnights had... 21? Or however many, and that was also a lot too. I'm unsure if I'll get into this full album the way I have with several of her others. It'll likely be a case where I'll pick out my favourite 10-18 songs and curate my own version of it.
But I also need to have patience and give a bit of a grace period because I don't think it's reasonable to conclude how I feel based on a single listen - though first impressions do still count.

Another thread with some good thoughts:

[dwmusiccollector]

I'm going to seperate each side. I'm Gonna Get You Back will be on Side 1 while LOML will be on Side 2.

[avamaxstan]

^Yes. She and Jack need to part ways for now. I was really hoping she would give us something/anything different, but considering the production of this album was somehow squeezed between a multi-leg world stadium tour and multiple re-recording eras, it wasn't realistic to expect an artistic evolution. Everything is about "Taylor Swift, Inc" and keeping that business thriving and profitable, which means keeping the customers fed with new brands and products to spend money on.

[Rhythm Nation]

Some of these reactions are another example of the unrealistic pressures and expectations and demands put on this woman. Be this. Do that. Reinvent. Change. But don’t change too much. Make radio hits. But don’t be generic. Please repeat my personal favourite of the ten eras. Just make it newer and better. All while she’s on tour doing 4 hour shows?
Now everyone wants a new sound. But when she makes experimental tracks like labyrinth, closure or inthaf they are the least appreciated…

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Apr 19, 2024 10:44:37 GMT -5 Rhythm Nation said:

Some of these reactions are another example of the unrealistic pressures and expectations and demands put on this woman. Be this. Do that. Reinvent. Change. But don’t change too much. Make radio hits. But don’t be generic. Please repeat my personal favourite of the ten eras. Just make it newer and better. All while she’s on tour doing 4 hour shows?
Now everyone wants a new sound. But when she makes experimental tracks like labyrinth, closure or inthaf they are the least appreciated…

To be fair, it seems most of the criticism is on Jack rather than Aaron or even Taylor. Though there will inevitably be criticism toward Taylor because people are willing her to finally fail at something, but we shouldn't give too much mind to that. The Constructive criticism seems to lie in the production.

[jenglisbe]

Apr 19, 2024 10:44:37 GMT -5 Rhythm Nation said:

Some of these reactions are another example of the unrealistic pressures and expectations and demands put on this woman. Be this. Do that. Reinvent. Change. But don’t change too much. Make radio hits. But don’t be generic. Please repeat my personal favourite of the ten eras. Just make it newer and better. All while she’s on tour doing 4 hour shows?
Now everyone wants a new sound. But when she makes experimental tracks like labyrinth, closure or inthaf they are the least appreciated…

Well to be fair it's not just Taylor that deals with these pressures and demands. There are plenty of Beyonce fans who have wanted her to go back to a more 'commercial' sound, for instance. There are plenty of Drake fans who have said his music has gotten too samey. More so, in general any artist who is fortunate enough to have success and get to release a lot of albums deals with having some fans who want one thing, other fans who want another, etc.

[RoseColoredGirl]

Decided to go to bed last night rather than listening to the second half, as I felt I'd enjoy it more when I wasn't so exhausted lol. Glad I waited, as I think it would have been too much to digest in one sitting. It’s definitely far from my favorite Taylor Swift album. The tracks on this second half were hit or miss for me until the last four, but I still really enjoyed the album. All of it was beautifully written, even if some tracks clicked with me more than others. I’d probably rank this around the same place as Evermore, but it could grow on me. Gonna do the same with part 2 as I did for the first part of the album.

Love
1. The Manuscript (9/10)
Another one that really grew on me throughout the first listen for the excellent storytelling. Love the This is such a beautiful track that is going to make so many people feel heard. Great way to end the album!

Great
2. thanK you aIMee (8/10)
My dumb ass read this as “Almee” with an “L” last night haha. This one really stands out to me, lyrically it reminds me a bit of an evolved “Betty.”

3. The Albatross (8/10)
This is the first one for me that has been instant! The melody here is so pretty. “Wise men once read fake news, then they believed it” is for sure a standout lyric here.

4. The Bolter (8/10)
Ooh, I really like this! This really clicked for me in the pre-chorus.

Good
5. Peter (7/10)
This is a really pretty ballad! Like this a lot.

6. Robin (7/10)
A sweet little ballad. Wasn’t crazy about it at first, but it grew on me as the song went on.

7. Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus (7/10)
Really like this! The production reminded me a bit of “New Years Day” at the beginning.

Decent
8. So High School (6/10)
I want to like this more than I do, but feel the production here was a little samesy? This could have been much stronger if it had better production to set it apart from the other tracks.

9. Imgonnagetyouback (6/10)
This is nice! I like the chorus. Olivia’s song was more instant for me.

10. I Hate It Here (6/10)
She has some real standout lyrics here. “Trapped inside the body of a finance guy” and “I’d say the 1830s, but without all the racists” are great lol. The production feels like leaves something to be desired, but maybe it will grow on me with future listens.

Meh
11. The Black Dog (5/10)
Doesn’t do a ton for me on first listen, but the build-up in the chorus is kind of cool.

12. Cassandra (5/10)
Could see this being a grower similar to some tracks on Evermore, but doesn’t do a ton for me right now. “When it’s burn the bitch they’re shrieking” definitely stands out as being very provocative.

Don't Care For
13. I Look In People’s Windows (4/10)
Doesn’t do much for me.

14. Prophecy (3/10)
Eh, can’t say I care for it. Reminds me quite a bit of Evermore, but it doesn’t stand out at this time.

15. How Does It End? (3/10)
Meh, this is another dud. Don’t see any reason to return to it.

[HEADOFTHEPACK]

I think she might just be too enveloped in her own brand right now. She's on what's basically a GH tour and periodically releasing past material repackaged. Constantly looking back, constantly performing past material. Over years. It's been a few years since she didn't have something pre-planned on the horizon and I think she needs space in front of her to progress. That's not a Taylor-specific issue, it's just life.

[wjr15]

I just finished my first listen of the standard edition and I gotta say I’m not really feeling this album. Lyrically, it is great and Taylor is one of the best in the business when it comes to that. My biggest issue is the production. It is way too same-y and I was worried about that when I saw so much Antonoff on the album. Even Dessner’s productions got to be a bit monotonous. The only songs that I can see myself returning to at this point are ‘Down Bad’ and ‘I Can Do It With A Broken Heart.’ I’ll check out the album again this weekend to see if anything changes for me. Maybe I’ll check out the 2am tracks too but I’m not sure if I want to if I can’t get into the standard edition.

I really hope for her next album that she moves onto new producers. This album sounds like an extension of Midnights/evermore/folklore (Midnights is her best album this decade imo) and even the 1989 vault tracks sound like extensions of Midnights. I just need new producers and a bit more tempo and I can see myself loving another Taylor album. Her run from Speak Now to Lover was amazing and I want to love an album like those from that stretch of releases again.

[wavey.]

I think she should talk her shit more...accolade wise.🤷🏾

[Future Captain]

Yeah the part that of course Taylor have the biggest part in, the lyrics, had afaik got pretty widespread praise. It's the production that people I've seen harp on being the "problem" of the album and I think I'm gonna echo the sentiment that she really need to work with other people. Most of the sparks of unique and new sounds are in the Dessner tracks, but even that will hit its limit soon enough.

I do hope that once the re-recordings and the tour is done, she take some break to let things wind down and give space for herself to go out of what seems to have become a musical comfort zone for her.

[Dylan :)]

Chart Data on Twitter: "Taylor Swift's 'THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT' officially breaks the record for biggest first day streams for any album on Spotify in 2024, in under 12 hours."

[Deleted]

Put narcotics into all of my songs and that's why you're still singing along

[JamaicaFunk²]

People saying this is Midnights 2.0 or anyway related has me scratching my head. I wish it were. And at times there are glimpses it could’ve been. But I don’t get that vibe at all.

[Choco]

Honestly a 31 song album is never gonna be a career highlight. There is just no way it isn't bloated and self indulgent.

To me it honestly screams commercial bait. Like, they know she can get away with it because of how huge she is but creatively this could have been condensed to half the length and made the same point.

The expectation for her to reinvent and innovate was set by herself. No one expects Billie, Lana or even Ariana to switch up their sound, for better or worse. It's mostly also a dig against Antonoff. He's been so unavoidable the past few years, and now his sound is all over the charts and the dicographies of multiple stars so it's bound to get tired.

I'm still fairly sure some gems will make themselves shine with a few more listens and I don't necessarily hate the album or even dislike it. It's just that reactions on both extremes (BEST ALBUM EVER/WORST ALBUM EVER) are probably not entirely deserved.

Tbh it's been an issue this year for me. Ariana's album served zero new stuff and I ended up gravitating to older projects of her within a week. Beyoncé beyonce'd all over country and to me it was kinda boring. I have zero expectations for Dua or Billie to drop career bests either. I don't know why but I feel like none of our current stars are innovating in any way that connects to me (but it's more than likely it's also a me problem)