Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Apr 25, 2024 10:33:02 GMT -5
I mean sure but it just felt very against her brand of feminism and being a girl boss when the red flags were literally screaming at her (let alone us in the fanbase). But let's not get carried away into that discussion again because as Swifties our contract says we have to pretend we didn't see that lololol. How was her dating Matty anti-feminist again? I have no idea about that man. I just vaguely remember them getting a ton of backlash from Swifities because he laughed at an offensive joke on a podcast? I didn't know much beyond that.
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clsvltn
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Post by clsvltn on Apr 25, 2024 10:43:07 GMT -5
I hope she is not done with promo yet lol ... but I think honestly, there wasn't even need for any promo. I mean she is literally breaking records left and right with virtually no promo. Why waste anything, if she had stuff planned, when it would do very minimal. ?
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ccchui
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Post by ccchui on Apr 25, 2024 10:43:37 GMT -5
I mean sure but it just felt very against her brand of feminism and being a girl boss when the red flags were literally screaming at her (let alone us in the fanbase). But let's not get carried away into that discussion again because as Swifties our contract says we have to pretend we didn't see that lololol. How was her dating Matty anti-feminist again? I have no idea about that man. I just vaguely remember them getting a ton of backlash from Swifities because he laughed at an offensive joke on a podcast? I didn't know much beyond that. I think Taylor did say it clear in her song "But Daddy I Love Him" that she didn't care about how others feel of she was dating Matty. She was willing to "burn my whole life down" and "disgrace" her own name to be with him! (which is very concerning.... now looking back!!) I don't think she cared of backlash or anything at that point as long as she could be with him. She was willing to risk it all for him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 10:53:25 GMT -5
After ruminating on the album a bit more, I feel like this album is pretty much tailor made for the Swifties who made it a life mission to dive into and explore every crevice of the character that is "Taylor Swift" as she presents it through her music. Like, my observation is that those who are deep in the Taylor Swift lore are obsessed with the album while the more casual ones are less so, while those who are tepid/dont care much for her beyond the "standout" pop songs pretty much hated it or at least wouldn't give it a second listen. This is such a good evaluation honestly. She’s akin to some Twilight-phenomena. Especially within her fanbase and the Travis, Matty, Joe, etc dissertations and conspiracies that are just daily consumed. This album feels like it was for people who spend every waking day immersing in her storyline and genuinely get excitement on knowing any glimpse of her personal life. For the average listener the very specific lyrics, conspiracies, and subtle hints just go in one ear and out the other. I see the casual listener bored and not mesmerized by anything and viewing it all as forgettable. Then you go on social media and see her fans just dissecting every single line and getting emotional with conspiracies of what she’s went through with who. There’s not much radio hits, melodies, or production. Once again like the prior output she’s just leaning more into storytelling and making a spectacle with songwriting. I’m trying to give another shot at listening but I like many casuals just cannot get drawn into it so far. So a GP phenomenon?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2024 10:54:41 GMT -5
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Apr 25, 2024 10:55:12 GMT -5
How was her dating Matty anti-feminist again? I have no idea about that man. I just vaguely remember them getting a ton of backlash from Swifities because he laughed at an offensive joke on a podcast? I didn't know much beyond that. I think Taylor did say it clear in her song "But Daddy I Love Him" that she didn't care about how others feel of she was dating Matty. She was willing to "burn my whole life down" and "disgrace" her own name to be with him! (which is very concerning.... now looking back!!) I don't think she cared of backlash or anything at that point as long as she could be with him. She was willing to risk it all for him. Beyond her family and friends should she have cared how the public felt? I wouldn't. That's how it typically is when you're in love and you're a hopeless romantic. You'll go to ends of the Earth to be with them if it feels right to you. In a relationship, your opinion of the person should always far outweigh anyone else's, least of all strangers/overly-intrusive fans. I wouldn't say I agree with the notion of burning her life down, but I wouldn't blame her at all for not taking pointers on who she loves from fans/people she doesn't even know personally (that sounds like a hellish arrangement). lol
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Apr 25, 2024 11:07:21 GMT -5
Being madly in love with a racist (at worst; highly racially problematic at the least) was not a good look for Taylor and goes against her brand, so I am glad she woke up and realized that no junkie dick was worth the hassle.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Apr 25, 2024 11:20:06 GMT -5
Where are u getting these rumors? Taylor Nation aka Taylor official essentially posted a series of images with easter eggs that fans have "decoded" to 5/3 and there are other easter eggs pointing to 3 (including the 3 roman numeral within TTPD logo). Essentially mass speculation among Swifties. Would be cool if it were a 3rs disc of uptempos radio-ready songs to appease those unhappy with the initial release! I'm telling you, this is going to be a 5 part project for the 5 stages of grief. The 5 playlists she created on apple music prior to release are right there. And i think the 5th part (acceptance) is going to be the TV of the debut, accepting who she was and who she is today.
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Acid Eyes
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Post by Acid Eyes on Apr 25, 2024 11:27:17 GMT -5
Have you all seen this? 1 pm EST
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Apr 25, 2024 11:31:37 GMT -5
Have you all seen this? 1 pm EST I think it's just a listening party on Stationhead?
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Apr 25, 2024 12:08:36 GMT -5
Being madly in love with a racist (at worst; highly racially problematic at the least) was not a good look for Taylor and goes against her brand, so I am glad she woke up and realized that no junkie dick was worth the hassle. What did he do that was racist? I haven't seen this. Eta: Ah, he laughed at someone else's racist jokes/remarks.
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Post by abbeyjones11 on Apr 25, 2024 12:31:31 GMT -5
Taylor Nation aka Taylor official essentially posted a series of images with easter eggs that fans have "decoded" to 5/3 and there are other easter eggs pointing to 3 (including the 3 roman numeral within TTPD logo). Essentially mass speculation among Swifties. Would be cool if it were a 3rs disc of uptempos radio-ready songs to appease those unhappy with the initial release! I'm telling you, this is going to be a 5 part project for the 5 stages of grief. The 5 playlists she created on apple music prior to release are right there. And i think the 5th part (acceptance) is going to be the TV of the debut, accepting who she was and who she is today. Those 5 playlists have been updated with songs from TTPD. I checked it out last week after the album came out.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Apr 25, 2024 12:41:42 GMT -5
Being madly in love with a racist (at worst; highly racially problematic at the least) was not a good look for Taylor and goes against her brand, so I am glad she woke up and realized that no junkie dick was worth the hassle. Everyone has their own tastes in lovers, and I respect that. But I will never understand what she saw in Matty Anyway, I present.. Dylan's Version! Ye will probably hate it as I removed the songs I don't like, which seems to be the ones everyone else loves
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Future Captain
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Post by Future Captain on Apr 25, 2024 13:00:00 GMT -5
The Matty Healy stuff is always gonna be wild because I've seen speculations that Taylor already have some degree of interest on him for YEARS. Like I remember the rumors of them dating back in 2014. If the speculations are true then Taylor might have a thing for him for a long time, fuck around with him after she separated with Joe, then "find out" after like two weeks because the things she's saying in the songs speculated is about him is very scathing and I dont think come from feelings about "just" a two weeks fling.
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JamaicaFunk²
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Post by JamaicaFunk² on Apr 25, 2024 13:13:01 GMT -5
Where are u getting these rumors? Taylor Nation aka Taylor official essentially posted a series of images with easter eggs that fans have "decoded" to 5/3 and there are other easter eggs pointing to 3 (including the 3 roman numeral within TTPD logo). Essentially mass speculation among Swifties. Would be cool if it were a 3rs disc of uptempos radio-ready songs to appease those unhappy with the initial release! I’ve wondered about 5/3 for awhile because the lead is called Fortnight and the pre-album snippet showed 14 hash marks so I figured there was something happening in two weeks. 5/3 is a fortnight after the main release. What are the “3” clues? 🕵️♂️
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Apr 25, 2024 13:29:47 GMT -5
Being madly in love with a racist (at worst; highly racially problematic at the least) was not a good look for Taylor and goes against her brand, so I am glad she woke up and realized that no junkie dick was worth the hassle. Matty Healy was literally dating FKA Twigs. He’s made (incredibly popular) songs referring to police injustice against black people. He is an outspoken liberal. It’s in really bad faith to call him racist, just because he’s a bit of an edgelord who can’t keep his mouth shut. This current internet age just absolutely can’t resist full-throttle labeling people; people can say stupid things that we all wish they wouldn’t have said — Matty Healy is not voting for conservatives, he’s been with a black woman, and he talks about liberal stances in his music. He has shown a commitment to equality both in his *professional artistic* life *and* his personal life. What is *accomplished* by branding him, as if he’s a threat to something? What exactly makes him a threat because he laughed at a joke or said a boneheaded thing or two? There’s just no grace to be given at all nowadays, and this is literally the kind of environment that Taylor feels like she’s crucified if she does something wrong.
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Kinney
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Post by Kinney on Apr 25, 2024 13:38:03 GMT -5
This is her best album, it's getting better and better with each listen.
I think this is definitively the spiritual successor of Speak Now, the starkly candid and messy lyrics are a direct callback imo.
I love this so much.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Apr 25, 2024 13:47:39 GMT -5
Being madly in love with a racist (at worst; highly racially problematic at the least) was not a good look for Taylor and goes against her brand, so I am glad she woke up and realized that no junkie dick was worth the hassle. Matty Healy was literally dating FKA Twigs. He’s made (incredibly popular) songs referring to police injustice against black people. He is an outspoken liberal. It’s in really bad faith to call him racist, just because he’s a bit of an edgelord who can’t keep his mouth shut. This current internet age just absolutely can’t resist full-throttle labeling people; people can say stupid things that we all wish they wouldn’t have said — Matty Healy is not voting for conservatives, he’s been with a black woman, and he talks about liberal stances in his music. He has shown a commitment to equality both in his *professional artistic* life *and* his personal life. What is *accomplished* by branding him, as if he’s a threat to something? What exactly makes him a threat because he laughed at a joke or said a boneheaded thing or two? There’s just no grace to be given at all nowadays, and this is literally the kind of environment that Taylor feels like she’s crucified if she does something wrong. while i don’t disagree on some of your points, i would like to say that simply dating someone of a different race does not exclude someone from being a racist.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Apr 25, 2024 14:03:14 GMT -5
while i don’t disagree on some of your points, i would like to say that simply dating someone of a different race does not exclude someone from being a racist. You get it. Most people don't. While I'm not going to call anyone stupid, it's still baffling to me that people living in 2024 don't understand that not being actively not racist equates to being racist. Dismissing Matty's actions as simply "laughing at racist jokes" and saying "HE CAN"T BE RACIST!!1! HE HAS BLACK FRIENDS/DATED A (HALF) BLACK WOMAN!!!1!" is incredibly myopic and tone deaf. Also, let's not act like that is all the man has done. Talking openly about watching adult films in which Black women are demoralized and degraded is not a good look either. Of course, Swifties will be quick to claim selective ignorance regarding certain details of her life and the lives of the men she dates, but hawk-eyed when it comes to everything else about her, LOL. Anyway, I have never met the man, so I cannot speak to any of his thoughts on my race. but I can judge his actions and at the very least, they are extremely racially insensitive and I am glad Taylor has moved on from him.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 25, 2024 14:11:14 GMT -5
I did the same after my first full listen-through on Friday. On first impression, I liked the sound if the second half more but after I listened only to the first half a few more times, things started coming together more. I need to revisit the second half again on its own a few more times but so far, (Rose’s Version) consists of 17 tracks, made up of 12 from the first half and 5 from the second. All in all, I think that’ll be a solid version of the album to suit me. I'm curious... which four songs from the first half aren't making Rose's Version? The ones I've skipped on (for now) are: Fresh Out The Slammer I Can Fix Him loml The Alchemy From the second half, the ones I kept are: The Black Dog How Did It End? So High School thanK you aIMee Peter I might also play around with trackorder a bit, which might allow me to make room for a couple others. I've yet to listen to the album on shuffle, which some people said helped with getting into songs and avoiding somewhat the production sameness. As it is now, I think the 17 I've chosen places it (for me) above most of her other albums.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Apr 25, 2024 14:11:49 GMT -5
But *what are you actually saying* when you call him racially insensitive? What do you *mean*?
Are you saying he’s actually been lying this whole time about being an outspoken liberal? Is he a threat? Is he dangerous?
Are you saying he should be ashamed of his porn fetish?
What are you trying to accomplish by saying what you’re saying?
You say you’ve never met the man, but, based on his actions, just as the negative things you’ve brought up, he has also literally demonstrated by his actions a professional, artistic, and personal commitment to treating people equally.
Are you saying laughing at a joke and what he jerks off to means it’s all a fraud?
It’s like the people that took the 1830s lyric out of context. I don’t understand the goal — Taylor has demonstrated plenty of commitment both professional and artistically and in her personal life to treat people equally. Does a clumsy cherry picked line about the 1830s negate all that? Why?
Do people even ask themselves why they’re saying the things they’re saying anymore?
You say it’s myopic and tone deaf to go “HE CANT BE RACIST BECAUSE HE HAS BLACK FRIENDS/DATED A BLACK WOMAN”….
(And on top of that, put awareness about police brutality against black people in his songs, and been an outspoken liberal.)
Isn’t it just as myopic and tone deaf to say that those things don’t matter? How can those things matter less than what he’s laughed at or what he jerks off to privately?
I truly don’t understand the instinctual rush to brand someone over shit that shouldn’t be as meaningful as them showing consistent artistic, professional, and personal commitments, and I kind of wonder if you even do yourself.
Matty Healy may not have been right for Taylor Swift. He may be an arrogant blowhard, as she says herself in her songs about him.
But so many people JUMPED, LEPT at the chance to make soliloquies hounding her for her dating “a racist”, just like you did, and it doesn’t even feel like people even understood the gravity of what they were saying, or why they were saying it —- and it tore her damn life apart.
And by the way, if we’re talking about “problematic phrasings”, calling Matty Healy “junkie dick” is not exactly a great look. Nor is retorting that FKA Twigs is half black —- it implies something pretty not great either.
It’s just amazing that people can listen to these songs like “But Daddy I Love Him” about unacceptable behavior from fans that contributed to caging her and tearing her personal life apart, and can’t connect A to B about their own contributions to it.
Anyway, I won’t keep talking about this, I said what I needed to say.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Apr 25, 2024 14:40:11 GMT -5
Being a Black male in this country is so fucking exhausting and, to quote Taylor herself, I hate it here. White fragility continues to rear its ugly head time and time again, but it's not my job to educate those who wish to remain willfully and blissfully ignorant because, well, they get to. I don't have that luxury.
Anyway, this topic is not about that. I will stand by the fact that this is her best album. Florida!!! can still get chomped to death by a gator, though.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Apr 25, 2024 14:46:47 GMT -5
Naw dude, you threw out a label in total bad faith, accompanied by your own problematic phrasings, and instead of taking any responsibility for it or acknowledge that maybe you maybe flippantly rushed to label someone, you avoided any of that and just blamed it on white fragility.
You are not the only person that has done this about Matty Healy — it was very consistent chatter when the two were dating. People that had barely even known who he was began looking at extreme micro vignettes of the guy and twisting them into the absolute worst portrait imaginable.
I am not picking a fight with you, I just don’t understand the resistance to maybe taking a breath before flippantly labeling musicians or people Taylor has dated as racist.
Calling people racist has meaning. It has weight. And people instead used it as a permission structure to tear down Taylor’s personal choices about who she dated. Why? Why even go there? What did you accomplish my man?
I really am happy to leave this topic alone now. But you were not the victim here, and painting yourself as one because of your own words and deciding to dismiss me as some product of “white fragility” for pointing it out — I can’t not respond to that, either.
I fully support you, you’re a great mod, you’re a friendly guy. I have messed up plenty of times on this forum myself. We all do it.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 25, 2024 14:56:17 GMT -5
Florida!!! can still get chomped to death by a gator, though. No! It's good! Though I agree with whoever it was that somewhere sometime said Florence is too low in the mix. I'm not sure if Jack knew how to work with her vocals. And it makes me wonder now, has he ever worked with a stronger vocalist as producer before?
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Apr 25, 2024 15:01:23 GMT -5
Speaking of Florence’s vocals being a bit low in the mix, Jack really consistently does this thing where Taylor’s vocals are a bit muddy in his mixing, and it can be hard to hear her lyrics, and I wonder if that’s deliberate or not. You have two of the finest musicians in the pop industry — maybe it’s to deliberately bring out the vibes of the song via the production?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 25, 2024 15:04:49 GMT -5
Except what production.
Honestly, I'd love a version of the album with Aaron's production. While Jack-produced songs have grown on me more, it's not because of anything with the production, which leaves soooo much to be desired.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Apr 25, 2024 15:07:51 GMT -5
To me the biggest knock about Jack’s production, as incredibly as it often is, is he gets very heavy-handed.
Ex: the “applause” in Question…?; the various belles and whistles in Bejeweled; the constant “twinkly synths”.
I have to not roll my eyes every time I hear that effect in Question. 😅
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Apr 25, 2024 15:10:31 GMT -5
Florida!!! can still get chomped to death by a gator, though. No! It's good! Though I agree with whoever it was that somewhere sometime said Florence is too low in the mix. I'm not sure if Jack knew how to work with her vocals. And it makes me wonder now, has he ever worked with a stronger vocalist as producer before? Jack produced half of Florence's last album.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Apr 25, 2024 15:30:44 GMT -5
while i don’t disagree on some of your points, i would like to say that simply dating someone of a different race does not exclude someone from being a racist. You get it. Most people don't. While I'm not going to call anyone stupid, it's still baffling to me that people living in 2024 don't understand that not being actively not racist equates to being racist. Dismissing Matty's actions as simply "laughing at racist jokes" and saying "HE CAN"T BE RACIST!!1! HE HAS BLACK FRIENDS/DATED A (HALF) BLACK WOMAN!!!1!" is incredibly myopic and tone deaf. Also, let's not act like that is all the man has done. Talking openly about watching adult films in which Black women are demoralized and degraded is not a good look either. Of course, Swifties will be quick to claim selective ignorance regarding certain details of her life and the lives of the men she dates, but hawk-eyed when it comes to everything else about her, LOL. Anyway, I have never met the man, so I cannot speak to any of his thoughts on my race. but I can judge his actions and at the very least, they are extremely racially insensitive and I am glad Taylor has moved on from him. Yeah let's go ahead and cut the passive aggressive digs and just be forward as a grown man if you have something to say directly. I hate passive aggressive bulls**t. And this behavior from a moderator of all people. Jesus. Since you referenced me saying how he "laughed at someone's inappropriate jokes" and somehow that makes me problematic, before you start welding your sledgehammer of judgement and labels around you need to be crystal clear on what you're even speaking about and not just be pulling assumptions out of your behind. I have made it a point to ask multiple times before in this very thread about Matty and what had done that was racist. The last TO YOU specifically! Instead here you are, as opposed to using my question as a possibility to inform, you ignored me to only then condemn. A few people were quick to call him out and stand against him, but no one specified or qualified exactly why. I looked "Matty Healy racist" up myself after your post and the article said something about him dm'ing Ice Spice and literally said he was laughing at two other guys who were doing "Chinese impressions" or something to that affect on some podcast or something. I said "ah, he laughed at someone else's racist remarks" after asking what he did that was racist as in "ah, I get what he did that was racist". You didn't see a question mark after that or me making excuses for him. I don't care what you believe or don't believe. There is only the truth. Not all of us know every detail of her dating life. I literally just started diving into it with TTPD to understand these songs better. I haven't personally followed Matty or his group or his history AT ALL beyond knowing that he and Taylor had an off and on relationship between 1989 (which I just found out since TTPD) and now that he pursued and wrote a song about her, and he lured her in to a relationship to just drop her after Joe. I never followed this man's career because I had NO interest in him and still don't. I am "hawk-eyed" with Taylor, not the men she dates and therein lies the difference. You make these vast, dangerous, swooping judgements not having the slightest of the facts but only working on emotion and your own (awful) assumptions. Now you can sit that empty, loaded accusational sh** with me at the door. I was just repeating what I read in an article. One thing I can't stand is people putting words or sentiments in my mouth I've never uttered, thought, or said and the rush to judgemnt and label is insane.
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HEADOFTHEPACK
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Post by HEADOFTHEPACK on Apr 25, 2024 15:40:06 GMT -5
No! It's good! Though I agree with whoever it was that somewhere sometime said Florence is too low in the mix. I'm not sure if Jack knew how to work with her vocals. And it makes me wonder now, has he ever worked with a stronger vocalist as producer before? Jack produced half of Florence's last album. I listened to the NYT Popcast yesterday and they were talking about Jack and the criticism of him. This isn't a Jack issue, this is a Jack and Taylor issue. He's a varied producer. Listen to Lana's latest, it's incredibly different. Same with the latest (very good) Florence album. Sure, similar elements and textures, but not the same. Lorde has spoken about this before as well when people were taking issue with Jack's production on Solar Power; she was very clear that it was her album, her decisions, her direction and that he helped her make it. The partnership has simply become stale. Which is no surprise at all, they've been working together since 2014.
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