Max_X5
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Post by Max_X5 on Feb 12, 2024 16:37:33 GMT -5
"Daddy Lessons" was never my favorite on Lemonade, so I was slightly worried about how this would sound, but I love both of these songs pretty instantly; can't wait to hear the rest now!!!
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toxicbaby
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Post by toxicbaby on Feb 12, 2024 16:49:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry but those 2 songs are so bad, Beyoncé and country just don't mix 🤦♂️ Check out “Daddy Lessons” and try again Wow so giving an opinion in this forum opposite to what is praised here is like the end of the world? Interesting |
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toxicbaby
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Post by toxicbaby on Feb 12, 2024 16:50:57 GMT -5
I'm sorry but those 2 songs are so bad, Beyoncé and country just don't mix 🤦♂️ 16 Carriages is getting universal praise, so luckily your opinion is an extreme outlier :) I honestly don't care even if I'm the only one in this whole damn universe whom i didn't like these songs 🤗 🤗 |
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Rican@
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Post by Rican@ on Feb 12, 2024 16:56:27 GMT -5
I agree with this analysis. It's called fusing styles; just like Mariah was bringing pop melodies to hip-hop beats in the 1990s. Why can't Beyonce bring fuse vocal stylings from some genres with production elements from country? That doesn't mean everyone has to like the outcome, but under no circumstances is Beyonce obligated to sing a certain way just because she's using country production. If anything she's showing all music is Black music, so it's less that she's making any specific genre and is just making Black music period. Plus let's be real, if she suddenly sang with a country drawl people would criticize that too. While I agree with you, I feel that is where it doesn’t make me think these songs aren’t country because the production can be changed easily. Her rap singing should have been put on pause for these releases, which I know she can do it. I hope she doesn’t expect country to play these records because despite the production, her style of singing makes it feel out of place on those radio stations even if she sounds better than majority of them on those stations. When I think of country music, I think of subtle yet she’s in your face with these records—not a bad thing yet if she’s trying to execute something, she needs to rethink vocally. |
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Feb 12, 2024 16:56:40 GMT -5
I agree with this analysis. It's called fusing styles; just like Mariah was bringing pop melodies to hip-hop beats in the 1990s. Why can't Beyonce bring fuse vocal stylings from some genres with production elements from country? That doesn't mean everyone has to like the outcome, but under no circumstances is Beyonce obligated to sing a certain way just because she's using country production. If anything she's showing all music is Black music, so it's less that she's making any specific genre and is just making Black music period. Plus let's be real, if she suddenly sang with a country drawl people would criticize that too. I think this is a fair assessment as long as everyone knows that Beyonce is not looking for country music acceptance. It's kind of interesting because she is defying what country music is, and is known to be in the contemporary or even 20-30 years ago sense of what Country was. I think Kacey Musgraves has shown you can make Country music without commercial Country support. So this isn't anything new in a sense, it's just Beyonce doing another passion project. That said I think Ling Ling called it. When they said her main base may not support this outside of the promotional push Beyonce is willing to give this, and as a result Act II could be pretty short. This may not do much on the charts and commercially because there isn't a real audience for this outside of maybe die-hard Beyonce fans. Country doesn't do a lot of the things Beyonce is known for, and they look for other things in their music which isn't what Beyonce highlights in the production of her music. It's a different experience than Renaissance which was a fusion of dance, urban, and rhythmic music which goes better with her discography. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Feb 12, 2024 16:57:19 GMT -5
Check out “Daddy Lessons” and try again Wow so giving an opinion in this forum opposite to what is praised here is like the end of the world? Interesting You said they’re bad and don’t mix. You didn’t say you didn’t like them. Phrase it as an opinion statement next time and no one can argue against it. State it as a fact and people will. 🤷 |
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toxicbaby
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Post by toxicbaby on Feb 12, 2024 17:11:24 GMT -5
Wow so giving an opinion in this forum opposite to what is praised here is like the end of the world? Interesting You said they’re bad and don’t mix. You didn’t say you didn’t like them. Phrase it as an opinion statement next time and no one can argue against it. State it as a fact and people will. 🤷 Well to me they are bad and that's an opinion, clearly |
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Ivy Leegue™
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Feb 12, 2024 17:22:55 GMT -5
I just can't imagine Beyonce failing at this level. She is far too canny. People are right to be checking on K. Michelle. She sounds absolutely delusional in that tweet LMAO. I hope she can finally get her country album off the ground and that she sees success in "her genre" as "one of the greatest African American country singers of all timesI agree with this analysis. The only thing even remotely interesting about this rant from The Chicken Sacrificer was the Feist mention, LOLOL. |
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daddy
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Post by daddy on Feb 12, 2024 17:35:10 GMT -5
It's called fusing styles; just like Mariah was bringing pop melodies to hip-hop beats in the 1990s. Why can't Beyonce bring fuse vocal stylings from some genres with production elements from country? That doesn't mean everyone has to like the outcome, but under no circumstances is Beyonce obligated to sing a certain way just because she's using country production. If anything she's showing all music is Black music, so it's less that she's making any specific genre and is just making Black music period. Plus let's be real, if she suddenly sang with a country drawl people would criticize that too. While I agree with you, I feel that is where it doesn’t make me think these songs aren’t country because the production can be changed easily. Her rap singing should have been put on pause for these releases, which I know she can do it. I hope she doesn’t expect country to play these records because despite the production, her style of singing makes it feel out of place on those radio stations even if she sounds better than majority of them on those stations. When I think of country music, I think of subtle yet she’s in your face with these records—not a bad thing yet if she’s trying to execute something, she needs to rethink vocally. Country radio won't play her. They hardly play female artists consistently releasing within the genre. |
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 12, 2024 17:51:47 GMT -5
This really brings out my deeply unpopular take on Renaissance, which I liked and was slick and polished and euphoric, but also felt like her just...trying something on. There was something inauthentic and, worse, cynical about her hitching a ride onto ballroom culture as it was peaking in popularity just to the left of mainstream. She nailed every aspect of it enough that people ate it up without a second thought, but people treated it as some culmination of gifts to the Queer Community as if that's ever really been a part of her music or vibe intentionally rather than just obviously incidentally.
These two country songs are that but even more so. It feels like dress up in a way that even "Daddy Lessons" didn't, which is stronger than either of these, even if "16 Carriages" is a lovely song. There's a hollowness to them that I initially felt with Renaissance before I tucked that opinion away so I could enjoy the moment with the masses.
Maybe it doesn't matter, and being a vessel for centering blackness on these genres is the project in and of itself. It feels, idk, more self-serving than that though, in spite of what the Twitter army and thread think pieces would want me to believe.
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Feb 12, 2024 17:56:58 GMT -5
Check out “Daddy Lessons” and try again Wow so giving an opinion in this forum opposite to what is praised here is like the end of the world? Interesting Given that nearly your entire post history on this forum is negative commentary, I would’ve thought you’d learn to expect disagreement by now. |
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Feb 12, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -5
Oh Lord, you gotta love it when Azelea Banks chimes in, lol. This album is gonna be so divisive. I have a feeling Bey is gonna take an overall L with this one, but at least it'll be an interesting L.
I'm here for K. Michelle's name being in the mix though, lol. Please stream Anybody Wanna Buy A Heart?
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Post by Positive Tension on Feb 12, 2024 18:12:50 GMT -5
Both songs are quite good. I much prefer them to "Break My Soul," so I think Act II is off to a great start already.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 12, 2024 18:15:19 GMT -5
It's called fusing styles; just like Mariah was bringing pop melodies to hip-hop beats in the 1990s. Why can't Beyonce bring fuse vocal stylings from some genres with production elements from country? That doesn't mean everyone has to like the outcome, but under no circumstances is Beyonce obligated to sing a certain way just because she's using country production. If anything she's showing all music is Black music, so it's less that she's making any specific genre and is just making Black music period. Plus let's be real, if she suddenly sang with a country drawl people would criticize that too. While I agree with you, I feel that is where it doesn’t make me think these songs aren’t country because the production can be changed easily. Her rap singing should have been put on pause for these releases, which I know she can do it. I hope she doesn’t expect country to play these records because despite the production, her style of singing makes it feel out of place on those radio stations even if she sounds better than majority of them on those stations. When I think of country music, I think of subtle yet she’s in your face with these records—not a bad thing yet if she’s trying to execute something, she needs to rethink vocally. Do you have these same feelings about men who sing with a twang but whose production is 80s rock and not overtly country? Obviously the production on those songs can be changed easily as well. They also aren't what I think of when I think of country music, which traditionally puts instruments like banjo, fiddle, and the steel guitar front and center. (I'm also not fully sure what it means that the production can easily be changed out. You can say that about a lot of songs. I mean, there are plenty of songs where fans remove the original production and put piano-only versions on YouTube for example. Does that mean those songs weren't actually the original genre just because they can be played like a piano ballad?) dbhmr Are there previous Beyonce albums that you think felt authentic? I ask because a common criticism of Beyonce has always been that she's not truly vulnerable/open and usually has a guard up. |
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 12, 2024 19:10:11 GMT -5
I don’t think authenticity and vulnerability are the same here, and in that sense all of her albums up to Renaissance felt genuine to her style and sound and growth trajectory as an artist. Renaissance just felt so…idk, lab-made. Like a team of historians and scientists and queer phDs and the judging panel of Legendary cooked up something brilliant and needed the biggest voice and persona in music to deliver it to its maximum and all of that was achieved.
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Feb 12, 2024 19:23:13 GMT -5
I think that’s just Virgo-ness though.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Feb 12, 2024 19:36:39 GMT -5
she's too good to be true to herself and genuine, I guess. 🥱
we're talking about someone who performed at the Houston Rodeo 25 years ago. trust, she's not putting on a costume.
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Jay D83
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Post by Jay D83 on Feb 12, 2024 20:05:33 GMT -5
Okay… I asked a question you answered it. My point still stands… EYE am tired of the concept albums and to add to that chasing that goddamn AOTY award. Full stop! girl, please... there's nothing AOTY-chasing about this release. in fact, it's the opposite — she might lose some of the R&B support she has in the voting body and will have a harder time convincing country voters to get on board. she'll be competing with albums from Maggie Rogers, Kacey Musgraves, Taylor Swift and Lana Del Rey, all white women beloved by the country/alt/americana voters. So you think her husband's Grammy rant last week came out of nowhere? Oh ok. |
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Rican@
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Post by Rican@ on Feb 12, 2024 20:26:37 GMT -5
While I agree with you, I feel that is where it doesn’t make me think these songs aren’t country because the production can be changed easily. Her rap singing should have been put on pause for these releases, which I know she can do it. I hope she doesn’t expect country to play these records because despite the production, her style of singing makes it feel out of place on those radio stations even if she sounds better than majority of them on those stations. When I think of country music, I think of subtle yet she’s in your face with these records—not a bad thing yet if she’s trying to execute something, she needs to rethink vocally. Do you have these same feelings about men who sing with a twang but whose production is 80s rock and not overtly country? Obviously the production on those songs can be changed easily as well. They also aren't what I think of when I think of country music, which traditionally puts instruments like banjo, fiddle, and the steel guitar front and center. (I'm also not fully sure what it means that the production can easily be changed out. You can say that about a lot of songs. I mean, there are plenty of songs where fans remove the original production and put piano-only versions on YouTube for example. Does that mean those songs weren't actually the original genre just because they can be played like a piano ballad?) dbhmr Are there previous Beyonce albums that you think felt authentic? I ask because a common criticism of Beyonce has always been that she's not truly vulnerable/open and usually has a guard up. If this came from any artist, I would feel the same. Going into a different genre should feel like an experience, unfortunately, I feel this is still a Beyoncé track with a country production or country influence. There’s nothing bad about it; however, I feel if she’s going to take it there then take it there. Some posters made a good point about Renaissance where it’s not her norm because it works in her favor due to her style of singing. The production worked with her vocals. I could be wrong and there are more tracks that feel country. I don’t know. However, these tracks don’t deliver that notion for me. |
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Jay D83
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Post by Jay D83 on Feb 12, 2024 20:39:54 GMT -5
While I agree with you, I feel that is where it doesn’t make me think these songs aren’t country because the production can be changed easily. Her rap singing should have been put on pause for these releases, which I know she can do it. I hope she doesn’t expect country to play these records because despite the production, her style of singing makes it feel out of place on those radio stations even if she sounds better than majority of them on those stations. When I think of country music, I think of subtle yet she’s in your face with these records—not a bad thing yet if she’s trying to execute something, she needs to rethink vocally. Do you have these same feelings about men who sing with a twang but whose production is 80s rock and not overtly country? Obviously the production on those songs can be changed easily as well. They also aren't what I think of when I think of country music, which traditionally puts instruments like banjo, fiddle, and the steel guitar front and center. (I'm also not fully sure what it means that the production can easily be changed out. You can say that about a lot of songs. I mean, there are plenty of songs where fans remove the original production and put piano-only versions on YouTube for example. Does that mean those songs weren't actually the original genre just because they can be played like a piano ballad?) dbhmr Are there previous Beyonce albums that you think felt authentic? I ask because a common criticism of Beyonce has always been that she's not truly vulnerable/open and usually has a guard up.You didn't ask me but I'd love to answer. IMO, the only authentic albums from her have been '4' and 'BEYONCE'. Oh and I thought she was pandering with "Daddy Lessons" too. |
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Ivy Leegue™
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Feb 12, 2024 20:42:45 GMT -5
I excited for Beyonce to enter this realm, in whatever form that takes. I love that she is using Renaissance specifically as a showcase and celebration for how dance music and country music are actually rooted in Black tradition. Given her massive popularity and name brand recognition, she could make whatever kind of music that suits her fancy, so I respect her for doing this, even if I don't like all of the music. Renaissance, outside of a couple songs, didn't really age well with me, but I totally understand its necessity. I'm really hoping Part III is a rock album, so she can continue the conversation and education.
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Feb 12, 2024 21:10:54 GMT -5
I've always applauded her for trying different sounds, branching out. Imo I feel like she could be inspired by her sister and how she experimented her roots. I'll definitely give this album a shot, cause why not?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 12, 2024 21:22:39 GMT -5
I think this is a fair assessment as long as everyone knows that Beyonce is not looking for country music acceptance. I'm not sure any of us can say what Beyonce is looking for, unless she has explicitly said (and please let me know if she has). More so I don't think it's as generic as that statement makes it seem; as in, what are you defining as "country music acceptance" anyway? I don't agree with this at all. One dominant quality of country music is storytelling, and "16 Carriages" in particular contains clear storytelling (and even more specifically country music has plenty of songs about growing up and leaving home and such, and "16" fits right in with those songs). Additionally, traditional country foregrounds instruments like the banjo and steel guitar. Both of these new Beyonce songs do that; correct me if I'm wrong, but going back to "16" it makes clear use of steel guitar. I would agree that to some degree Beyonce is defying 'contemporary country,' but that's because the contemporary country that you hear on country radio has veered quite far from traditional country. Having said that, it's really a full circle thing because a lot of current country has plenty of white male country singers making lame attempts at pseudo-rap, so one could also see it as Beyonce just reclaiming that element for Black singers. This album is gonna be so divisive. I have a feeling Bey is gonna take an overall L with this one, but at least it'll be an interesting L. I'm here for K. Michelle's name being in the mix though, lol. Please stream Anybody Wanna Buy A Heart? People referencing K Michelle should really just remind us that plenty of Black women have actually been making country music for years now, they just don't have Beyonce's exposure; K Michelle yes, but also Rissi Palmer, Miko Marks, Mickey Guyton, Yola, Brittney Spencer, Amythyst Kiah, and more. I'd be interested to know if some of you think "reclaim" is the best word to use for Beyonce's album, or if she's more so supporting these other women and using her larger platform to remind people? This also gets back to the first question I asked in this post, because the post I was replying to seemed to imply white audiences are what define "country music acceptance" when there are plenty of people who love country music but have to seek out that music by people with whom they can identify. |
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Feb 12, 2024 21:32:44 GMT -5
I think this is a fair assessment as long as everyone knows that Beyonce is not looking for country music acceptance. I'm not sure any of us can say what Beyonce is looking for, unless she has explicitly said (and please let me know if she has). More so I don't think it's as generic as that statement makes it seem; as in, what are you defining as "country music acceptance" anyway? Why do we always have to define every phrase for you? Daenerys correct me if I'm wrong but I interpreted your post to be referring to the country music industry establishment, like radio, labels, concert promoters, etc. i.e. the movers and shakers of country music who largely support white male artists - and additionally large amounts of the US population who buy/stream the music and concert tickets of said white male artists. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 12, 2024 21:41:05 GMT -5
I'm not sure any of us can say what Beyonce is looking for, unless she has explicitly said (and please let me know if she has). More so I don't think it's as generic as that statement makes it seem; as in, what are you defining as "country music acceptance" anyway? Why do we always have to define every phrase for you? Because I'm a person with autism and it's what I do and need, but also because in general it's true that a lot of miscommunication and disagreement is really just the result of people not seeing words in the same way. Right, and this was my exact point; "country music acceptance" was being used from the point of view of a white gaze. Beyonce very well may not be seeking that acceptance. One could also view "country music acceptance" from a more historically traditional gaze (i.e. the Black roots of the genre), and with that framework Beyonce may be seeking acceptance to some degree. See, definitions matter. |
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Feb 12, 2024 21:45:09 GMT -5
Why do we always have to define every phrase for you? Because I'm a person with autism and it's what I do and need, but also because in general it's true that a lot of miscommunication and disagreement is really just the result of people not seeing words in the same way. Right, and this was my exact point; "country music acceptance" was being used from the point of view of a white gaze. Beyonce very well may not be seeking that acceptance. One could also view "country music acceptance" from a more historically traditional gaze (i.e. the Black roots of the genre), and with that framework Beyonce may be seeking acceptance to some degree. See, definitions matter. This is useful information to know about you and clarifies things, thank you. And yes I know definitions matter, so the way your final sentence landed is a little condescending. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 12, 2024 21:56:57 GMT -5
Because I'm a person with autism and it's what I do and need, but also because in general it's true that a lot of miscommunication and disagreement is really just the result of people not seeing words in the same way. Right, and this was my exact point; "country music acceptance" was being used from the point of view of a white gaze. Beyonce very well may not be seeking that acceptance. One could also view "country music acceptance" from a more historically traditional gaze (i.e. the Black roots of the genre), and with that framework Beyonce may be seeking acceptance to some degree. See, definitions matter. This is useful information to know about you and clarifies things, thank you. And yes I know definitions matter, so your final sentence landed is a little condescending. Your question to me that prompted my reply was...if not condescending, then in that realm at least. But also, you asked the question. Then when I explain something that acts as an answer to the question you asked and attempt to make sure that's understood, you then tell me I'm being condescending. That feels like something of a trap. I won't deny that my statement was phrased in a way that could come across as condescending, but I was just trying to explain why definitions matter to me, particularly in this discussion since "country music" seems too often to be defined in terms of white men when there are plenty of other people who both like and make country music. That was my real point. |
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Feb 12, 2024 22:00:44 GMT -5
Are the song credits public yet? Since country music is so first person storytelling centered, I’m curious if she stepped away at all from the writing camps.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Feb 12, 2024 22:14:13 GMT -5
Are the song credits public yet? Since country music is so first person storytelling centered, I’m curious if she stepped away at all from the writing camps. Raphael Saddiq co-wrote both songs. |
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Post by adamalterlago on Feb 12, 2024 22:24:03 GMT -5
Man, this release is bound for a lot of discourse which I’m already seeing…and exactly what she wanted. 16 Carriages is a career highlight IMO. Texas Hold ‘Em is cute but for the mainstream, much like BMS was. I will say it’s going to be hard to top Act I but she knows what she’s doing. I just need the Renaissance live album and DVD so I can let it go officially.
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