jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 19, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
Does country radio have an issue with women? Sure. Does country radio have an issue with black women? It probably does, even though Mickey Guyton is the only black woman that hit the airwaves in the last 10 years I think - and maybe more-, and therefore we probably do not have elements to claim that every black woman does not get played. So, you're actually claiming the fact that no Black women can get any kind of real airplay on country radio isn't evidence country radio has an issue with Black women?
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aldo01
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Post by aldo01 on Feb 19, 2024 11:01:31 GMT -5
Does country radio have an issue with women? Sure. Does country radio have an issue with black women? It probably does, even though Mickey Guyton is the only black woman that hit the airwaves in the last 10 years I think - and maybe more-, and therefore we probably do not have elements to claim that every black woman does not get played. So, you're actually claiming the fact that no Black women can get any kind of real airplay on country radio isn't evidence country radio has an issue with Black women? I am just saying that we only have one case: I personally think her lead single was awesome and should have been a number one hit. But the other music she released to radio was not as good as the lead single in my opinion. Many times we have artists struggling to find traction on radio with a great lead single, and if they don’t follow up with something great radio generallly gives up on them. Is it fair? No, but that is how it usually works on country radio. Morover, I have said that radio probably does have a problem with black women, but that we only have one case so far. My question is: does racism really applies to the Beyonce case?
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Feb 19, 2024 11:27:11 GMT -5
So, you're actually claiming the fact that no Black women can get any kind of real airplay on country radio isn't evidence country radio has an issue with Black women? I am just saying that we only have one case: I personally think her lead single was awesome and should have been a number one hit. But the other music she released to radio was not as good as the lead single in my opinion. Many times we have artists struggling to find traction on radio with a great lead single, and if they don’t follow up with something great radio generallly gives up on them. Is it fair? No, but that is how it usually works on country radio. Morover, I have said that radio probably does have a problem with black women, but that we only have one case so far. My question is: does racism really applies to the Beyonce case? Mickey's stuff not going #1 could be argued that they weren't the best single choices. The racism shines through by none of them even charting in the bottom half of the chart in the top 60, outside of Heartbreak Song that only went to 56. Tiera Kennedy was also tried at radio recently with a relatively good song, and like Mickey, didn't even chart.
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drod17
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Post by drod17 on Feb 19, 2024 11:29:17 GMT -5
Okay to imply that country music doesn't have a race problem when the amount of black male singers who have had a fair amount of success can be count on one hand (Darius Rucker, Charlie Pride, Jimmie Allen, and Kane Brown) is just ignorant at best. Country music has always had a problem with race and black artists in the mainstream. Having only a few succeed doesn't make the genre absolved of having a race problem. On the last Billboard Country Airplay chart, 43 of the 60 songs were sung by white men (along with all male duos/groups) with no female vocals credited. Of the 60 songs only two are by minorities (this and Kane Brown's latest). Country music and the mainstream specifically has always had a problem with females, race, and equal airplay. To imply otherwise is just plain false. It’s interesting how you always feel the need to insult people who are trying to make a point that does not fully reflect your opinion. Thank you for calling me ignorant. I am not in any way denying that there has been and there is racism in country music. What I am questioning is if it is fair to say that TODAY this song is not going to be played on country radio because of racism. Out of honest curiosity: how many black women and men have sent a lead single to country radio in the last 20 years aside from Darius Rucker, Mickey Guyton, Kane Brown and Dalton Dover? I am genuinely asking, because I am not sure how many more of them there are.Having said so, I do not deny in any way that there are deep race problems in the industry that prevent black women and men from getting record deals or significant promotion. All I am asking if this is the case. Not going to tolerate any insults or rude aggressions. I think the better question is, why do record labels not sign and send black artists to country radio? I get your point, but it's really a chicken and the egg type of problem. There are less black artists being signed and marketed towards country radio because country radio does not tend to play them. If it's harder to get radio to play these artists, labels have less incentive to promote them. It's not lost on me that the two biggest black artists in country radio both came with a fanbase from elsewhere (Rucker from his Hootie days and Kane from his Facebook cover videos days) instead of how most male artists started out in their times. Which is why I think this could so something more. Beyoncé is bringing her audience, which means there is more incentive to play this. It makes it less of a risk in some ways
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 19, 2024 12:33:51 GMT -5
I think much of the above can be true. To me, country radio being reluctant to play Beyoncé might be less about race and more about them not being welcoming to outsiders (performers outside of the genre). Unless I'm forgetting many examples, without a direct collab with an established country star, many pop acts attempting to cross over into country don't really succeed. With that said, Beyoncé being Black does factor into the entire conversation and I think is valuable because, she's a major star and with this release, it's harder to ignore someone of her stature. The work of getting her name out there is already done. If she puts out an authentically country-sounding country song, country radio can't justify not giving it a chance. It's easier to ignore smaller names and relative unknowns, but when it's Beyoncé, people are watching. They can't say she's not country if the song actually is country. They can't say people don't want to hear Beyoncé when they haven't even played it to give people the option to decide. Beyoncé doesn't need any radio format to succeed. I think this is a solid power move she's making that ultimately draws the conversation toward why country radio isn't open to Black country musicians, and with this song in the Top 50 now at country radio, it's already gone further than I honestly expected and maybe is the first step to country radio being a bit more open and accepting.
Or maybe I'm dreaming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2024 14:27:14 GMT -5
Radio playing Beyoncé or not playing Beyoncé has zero to do with race. Country radio has rejected Taylor Swift every time she has sent a single for them to play. If you’re not committed to country music then lots of ppl in the industry don’t want to support you.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Feb 19, 2024 14:33:48 GMT -5
Radio playing Beyoncé or not playing Beyoncé has zero to do with race. Oh good, it's settled!
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 19, 2024 14:37:31 GMT -5
Radio playing Beyoncé or not playing Beyoncé has zero to do with race. Country radio has rejected Taylor Swift every time she has sent a single for them to play. If you’re not committed to country music then lots of ppl in the industry don’t want to support you. What about the ones who are committed to country music that lots if ppl in the industry don’t want to support?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2024 14:46:58 GMT -5
Radio playing Beyoncé or not playing Beyoncé has zero to do with race. Oh good, it's settled! Yep! I’m always here for you Matty if you need me to answer anything else. 😁
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Post by livelikedying111 on Feb 19, 2024 17:20:21 GMT -5
I'm not American, so this might sound racist or ignorant, but I truly am intrigued by this issue, following this song's release: Urban radio almost exclusively plays songs by black artists, from what I've seen over the years. White artists who got played there that come to mind are Robin Thicke and a more recent example I don't remember now. My question is, why is that? I mean they play rap songs etc., but from what I've seen, Eminem was never played there even though he's a rapper. Why is that, because he's white? Then that's basically racism that goes unpunished. This song is country, or at least more country than rap/R&B yet it's still being played on Urban. Why is that? I'm trying to understand what I'm missing here. In the same regard, the same can be said about Country radio not playing black artists. Why is that? Someone please clarify, thanks loves!
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drod17
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Post by drod17 on Feb 19, 2024 18:11:17 GMT -5
I'm not American, so this might sound racist or ignorant, but I truly am intrigued by this issue, following this song's release: Urban radio almost exclusively plays songs by black artists, from what I've seen over the years. White artists who got played there that come to mind are Robin Thicke and a more recent example I don't remember now. My question is, why is that? I mean they play rap songs etc., but from what I've seen, Eminem was never played there even though he's a rapper. Why is that, because he's white? Then that's basically racism that goes unpunished. This song is country, or at least more country than rap/R&B yet it's still being played on Urban. Why is that? I'm trying to understand what I'm missing here. In the same regard, the same can be said about Country radio not playing black artists. Why is that? Someone please clarify, thanks loves! I am not an expert, but I feel like Urban radio actually has played songs by white artists as long as it fits its format (from what I remember Post Malone's first few eras, Justin Timberlake, heck even Lorde's Royal was played, amongst many others). So by starters it already seems more open. Second, at least from how the industry seems to work, there's less money in white artists promoting exclusively to Urban radio when they can easily get pop radio to play them instead. Which is the main difference, R&B and Hip Hop are pretty much the biggest genre in the states that has not been fully co-opted by white people. So it does make sense why they favor black artists more. There are several songs that I feel could've easily been huge pop hits, but instead were relegated to Urban radio. Eminem, while he raps, his music hasn't always aligned with the sound of Urban radio. Similar to Noah Kahan making Americana inspired music, but it aligns more with what pop radio is playing than anything country music is playing at the moment. With regards to why Beyoncé is getting played in urban radio with Texas Hold 'Em... well, it's similar to Taylor Swift's first few pop singles also charting on country. They're artists who have been historically played in those genres and have brought a considerable audience to said genre.
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Kanenrá:ke
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Post by Kanenrá:ke on Feb 19, 2024 18:45:09 GMT -5
Radio playing Beyoncé or not playing Beyoncé has zero to do with race. Oh good, it's settled! I will say at the moment country radio does seem to be playing the song, therefore why are we debating if they will or won't? Country radio is very risk averse and if the negative feedback is way higher than the positive they may stop playing the song. This is where I was saying the way they interpret the call out scores will be interesting. They have to go in knowing it'll likely get a higher than normal push back. There has definitely been racism in the industry, go listen to some of the very informative interviews Rissi Palmer has done on her podcast. The episode with Crystal Shawanda hit close to home being Indigenous myself. Having said that I don't think this song or Beyoncé has had any racism holding back it's success so far outside online bigots. Her overall star power is getting her past any "gate keepers" I'd think. This is I think the point aldo01 was making. Not denying any racism, just that it may not be there in this case necessarily. Though I don't see their point that radio isn't playing the song, it's off to a great start imo.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 19, 2024 20:11:26 GMT -5
Projected to debut at #1 on the Hot Country Songs chart and #2 on the Hot 100.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Feb 19, 2024 20:54:34 GMT -5
Projected to debut at #1 on the Hot Country Songs chart and #2 on the Hot 100. And should rise to #1 on the Hot 100 in its second week:
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 20, 2024 12:06:56 GMT -5
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 20, 2024 14:16:40 GMT -5
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Feb 20, 2024 15:33:47 GMT -5
Most added song on country radio with 75 adds on Mediabase, so radio is definitely excited for this initially.
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jab820
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Post by jab820 on Feb 20, 2024 16:24:21 GMT -5
We know add dates mean nothing, but wow is that encouraging.
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Post by boukemarten on Feb 20, 2024 18:25:21 GMT -5
I somewhat picture this as a kind of successor of Old Town Road with the unique infusion of country to it. With one major difference being the fact that Beyonce is already very established and OTR was basically the breakthrough hit for Lil Nas X. I'm not sure if it'll have as much impact as OTR in the end, but it at least has the potential to.
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Feb 20, 2024 18:57:01 GMT -5
So, you're actually claiming the fact that no Black women can get any kind of real airplay on country radio isn't evidence country radio has an issue with Black women? I am just saying that we only have one case: I personally think her lead single was awesome and should have been a number one hit. But the other music she released to radio was not as good as the lead single in my opinion. Many times we have artists struggling to find traction on radio with a great lead single, and if they don’t follow up with something great radio generallly gives up on them. Is it fair? No, but that is how it usually works on country radio. Morover, I have said that radio probably does have a problem with black women, but that we only have one case so far. My question is: does racism really applies to the Beyonce case? One could argue that it's having such a strong start at country radio *because* it's Beyonce. If this exact same song were released by a country singer who had never had a hit in the genre, it probably wouldn't even be charting let alone the most added on the format.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 20, 2024 21:10:16 GMT -5
I am just saying that we only have one case: I personally think her lead single was awesome and should have been a number one hit. But the other music she released to radio was not as good as the lead single in my opinion. Many times we have artists struggling to find traction on radio with a great lead single, and if they don’t follow up with something great radio generallly gives up on them. Is it fair? No, but that is how it usually works on country radio. Morover, I have said that radio probably does have a problem with black women, but that we only have one case so far. My question is: does racism really applies to the Beyonce case? One could argue that it's having such a strong start at country radio *because* it's Beyonce. If this exact same song were released by a country singer who had never had a hit in the genre, it probably wouldn't even be charting let alone the most added on the format. Yeah an exception doesn't prove a rule, and while I want this to do well, I'm annoyed that there are already people acting like because Beyonce can get country play it means country radio isn't racist. That it took someone of Beyonce's stature for a Black woman to get country airplay says a lot.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 20, 2024 21:19:21 GMT -5
I am just saying that we only have one case: I personally think her lead single was awesome and should have been a number one hit. But the other music she released to radio was not as good as the lead single in my opinion. Many times we have artists struggling to find traction on radio with a great lead single, and if they don’t follow up with something great radio generallly gives up on them. Is it fair? No, but that is how it usually works on country radio. Morover, I have said that radio probably does have a problem with black women, but that we only have one case so far. My question is: does racism really applies to the Beyonce case? One could argue that it's having such a strong start at country radio *because* it's Beyonce. If this exact same song were released by a country singer who had never had a hit in the genre, it probably wouldn't even be charting let alone the most added on the format. That goes without saying for any example. New artists will almost always struggle with their first hit.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 20, 2024 22:09:55 GMT -5
What's considered "rejected," though? Taylor Swift's "betty" had a 20-week-or-so run, peaking in the upper 30s, I believe, on Country Airplay. "I Bet You Think About Me" also spent a decent number of weeks on the chart, peaking at 23 in its debut week. They didn't garner as much play as the material from her first handful of albums, though I wouldn't say they bombed at the format.
"Texas Hold 'Em" is probably getting some curiosity spins. We'll see if the format gives it some legs.
By the by- has Chapel Heart tried going for country airplay?
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Feb 20, 2024 22:12:23 GMT -5
What's considered "rejected," though? Taylor Swift's "betty" had a 20-week-or-so run, peaking in the upper 30s, I believe, on Country Airplay. "I Bet You Think About Me" also spent a decent number of weeks on the chart, peaking at 23 in its debut week. They didn't garner as much play as the material from her first handful of albums, though I wouldn't say they bombed at the format. "Texas Hold 'Em" is probably getting some curiosity spins. We'll see if the format gives it some legs. By the by- has Chapel Heart tried going for country airplay?They haven't even been signed to a major label that could play them for radio even after AGT.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 20, 2024 22:13:51 GMT -5
^Thanks- wasn't sure what happened to the ladies after AGT.
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Post by travelrocks24 on Feb 21, 2024 6:52:11 GMT -5
We know add dates mean nothing, but wow is that encouraging. Please explain.
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🌺CountryLineDancer
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Post by 🌺CountryLineDancer on Feb 21, 2024 13:48:12 GMT -5
Also debut in Canada at #52 with 15 total adds (about 1/3 of total reporting stations).
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jab820
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Post by jab820 on Feb 21, 2024 18:53:32 GMT -5
We know add dates mean nothing, but wow is that encouraging. Please explain. There have been many songs over the years that had massive add dates and then the songs did basically nothing at radio. Some examples - and someone else here could give the exact # of adds vs. their chart peak - include: Mickey Guyton's debut single, Lauren Alaina's "Next Boyfriend", many of Lindsay Ell's songs, there are more... also, notice how my examples are all women, as this really happens to women at a much greater rate than men. The point is that adding a song does not equal playing a song more than just one or two overnight spins contributing to very little audience. It does show initial interest but nothing beyond that.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Feb 21, 2024 20:13:06 GMT -5
There have been many songs over the years that had massive add dates and then the songs did basically nothing at radio. Some examples - and someone else here could give the exact # of adds vs. their chart peak - include: Mickey Guyton's debut single, Lauren Alaina's "Next Boyfriend", many of Lindsay Ell's songs, there are more... also, notice how my examples are all women, as this really happens to women at a much greater rate than men. The point is that adding a song does not equal playing a song more than just one or two overnight spins contributing to very little audience. It does show initial interest but nothing beyond that. Caitlyn Smith's "Downtown Baby" also got around 50 adds to start and barely even charted, for another example. And, for an opposite example, Niko Moon's one hit "Good Time" ended up being a smash despite it initially starting with less than 20 adds. All his follow-up singles bombed (rightfully so imo), but that one turned into a hit despite radio not really looking like they were here for it at first. More often than not, a good adds date is an indicator of radio's interest and usually it correlates with success, but that's definitely not always the case.
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🌺CountryLineDancer
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Post by 🌺CountryLineDancer on Feb 21, 2024 20:43:02 GMT -5
There have been many songs over the years that had massive add dates and then the songs did basically nothing at radio. Some examples - and someone else here could give the exact # of adds vs. their chart peak - include: Mickey Guyton's debut single, Lauren Alaina's "Next Boyfriend", many of Lindsay Ell's songs, there are more... also, notice how my examples are all women, as this really happens to women at a much greater rate than men. The point is that adding a song does not equal playing a song more than just one or two overnight spins contributing to very little audience. It does show initial interest but nothing beyond that. Caitlyn Smith's "Downtown Baby" also got around 50 adds to start and barely even charted, for another example. And, for an opposite example, Niko Moon's one hit "Good Time" ended up being a smash despite it initially starting with less than 20 adds. All his follow-up singles bombed (rightfully so imo), but that one turned into a hit despite radio not really looking like they were here for it at first. More often than not, a good adds date is an indicator of radio's interest and usually it correlates with success, but that's definitely not always the case. If I were to add one rare successful example of a female singer, Lainey Wilson had 24 adds with her debut single Dirty Looks that did not even chart. Her second single Things A Man Oughta Know got even fewer adds of 14 on the impact date, but turned out to be a smash. Through compiling those radio single summary thread/radio single missed chart thread, I figured add # on the impact date is definitely one of the indicators to predict the initial performance of a song, but subsequent adds and callout matters more at the end of the day.
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