Billboard Hot 100: 05/04/2024

[dremolus - solarpunk]

[Groovy]

576 in today’s era is insane.

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2024 12:06:06 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Only good thing here is that it’s proof positive ICDIWABH is the obvious hit. Hidden way at the back of the album and it’s already projected to jump all the way to 8, despite every other song mostly mirroring track listing.

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2024 9:51:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Apr 19, 2024 23:00:47 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

But you’re basically arguing for what I’m arguing for. Songs being better reflections of their peaks again. Houdini feels like a #11 hit. Nothing big, but it stuck around long enough to feel like it was a lower top ten or barely missed top ten song. Opposed to Trollz, which as you say, does not seem like a #1. Who wants to “analyze” a chart run to look at more than just the peak years down the line? You didn’t used to have to do that so much because songs were, for the most part, decent reflections of their peaks on the hot 100. Or at least far more so than what’s happened this decade.

This comes down to how you’re intepreting to the numbers. The charts have one job. To measure what the most consumed songs are in a 7-day period. Everything else is up to interpretation, whether correct or incorrect. To say a song like Trollz doesn’t “feel like” a number one is to apply a larger range of measurement than intended for the single week that song was #1. It didn’t feel like a number one because, across a longer time period, it’s performance was much lower than the one week it was #1. That’s not a chart issue. That’s an interpretation issue.

But also, if they were to hypothetically do what you suggested and not count a first-week impact of a single, labels and artists would work around that and aim for a third-week push, or some other method that would become common and accepted within the industry.

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance (based on overall performance metrics). If it got streamed 1.5b times and spent a year on the hot 100 with a lot of that in the top ten, peaked top 3… it “feels” like a hit, etc.

And if labels want to try “3rd week tactics” or whatever with a qualifying week, let them. There has always been label tactics with the charts. Doesn’t mean we had floods of flash-in-the pan high peaks due to that before this era. There’s zero way for Taylor to get her 12 top 12s out of ttpd with the qualifying week rule, she can try “3rd week tactics” all she wants. It does eliminate most of the issue im referring to.

[85la]

Apr 20, 2024 9:14:38 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

Apr 20, 2024 8:38:47 GMT -5 Caviar said:

But people at pulse (wrong as usual) says she's overexposed and needs a break! LMAO

the funniest are the people insisting this is it and that she won’t have longevity just when she’s reaching unprecedented heights. She really makes people act very stupid and irrational.

Apr 20, 2024 9:35:24 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Apr 20, 2024 9:14:38 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

the funniest are the people insisting this is it and that she won’t have longevity just when she’s reaching unprecedented heights. She really makes people act very stupid and irrational.

I take it more as wishful thinking/bitterness than anything rooted in fact. If my favs were putting up these numbers why on earth would I want them to stop? Also take a break for what? She's getting awfully close to 40 when pop radio dispossess of female artists. She's smart by striking while it's hot.

Posts such as these are in fact "stupid and irrational" lol. How is daring to judge and predict how one's career might go, especially before Friday and earlier when we had no numbers or usage data to go by, and that is anything less than glowing of Taylor and saying that she will always excel to new heights, how is this "stupid and irrational"? No one said that she will flop lol. Many of us are fans ourselves and don't necessarily want her to underperform, we were just predicting that since she is overexposed and might be at the peak of her career, this album might open a little less than her previous ones and have a little less longevity.

Also, since when was 34 "awfully close" to 40? Taking just a few more months or a year's break will not age her much more significantly or make radio far less likely to play her.

Of course, it's so easy to say "we were all wrong" right after you have all the first day's numbers come rolling in.

[Angel]

Apr 20, 2024 12:20:02 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

Apr 20, 2024 9:51:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

This comes down to how you’re intepreting to the numbers. The charts have one job. To measure what the most consumed songs are in a 7-day period. Everything else is up to interpretation, whether correct or incorrect. To say a song like Trollz doesn’t “feel like” a number one is to apply a larger range of measurement than intended for the single week that song was #1. It didn’t feel like a number one because, across a longer time period, it’s performance was much lower than the one week it was #1. That’s not a chart issue. That’s an interpretation issue.

But also, if they were to hypothetically do what you suggested and not count a first-week impact of a single, labels and artists would work around that and aim for a third-week push, or some other method that would become common and accepted within the industry.

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance.

Also worth noting that pre-streaming there were a decent amount of flash in the pan #1s and top 10s. 1974 in particular was an absolute bloodbath.  No idea what happened that year but most of the biggest drops used to be from that year. 

[musiclife]

Oh my God lololol

[avamaxstan]

Florence getting her first top 5! I love how Taylor gets chart justice for the girls who inspire her 

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2024 12:24:17 GMT -5 Angel said:

Apr 20, 2024 12:20:02 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance.

Also worth noting that pre-streaming there were a decent amount of flash in the pan #1s and top 10s. 1974 in particular was an absolute bloodbath.  No idea what happened that year but most of the biggest drops used to be from that year. 

I’m not as familiar with the charts prior to this century tbf, but as I mentioned in an earlier thread, the 21st century hot 100 #1s were almost all entirely undeniable “hits” by all metrics prior to this decade. You had the Idol winning songs, maybe Harlem Shake… not much else flash-in-the-pan. This onslaught of that is a pretty new thing this decade.

[jayhawk1117]

What’s there to say besides “Lmaoooo”? 574 in 2024 is truly obscene. Top 12 lockout? Artist of the decade behavior

[Enigma.]

Both Fortnights are ahead of everything else by Taylor on AM, weird.

[Deleted]

Lana and Florence both had their only hot 100 top ten around 2012 with an EDM producer/song, and then years later finally scored a top 5 hopping on a Taylor feature. That’s definitely ironic.

*cough “but both of their lower peaking top tens were actually reflective of hit status opposed to either of their top 5s” cough cough*

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Apr 20, 2024 12:20:02 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

Apr 20, 2024 9:51:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

This comes down to how you’re intepreting to the numbers. The charts have one job. To measure what the most consumed songs are in a 7-day period. Everything else is up to interpretation, whether correct or incorrect. To say a song like Trollz doesn’t “feel like” a number one is to apply a larger range of measurement than intended for the single week that song was #1. It didn’t feel like a number one because, across a longer time period, it’s performance was much lower than the one week it was #1. That’s not a chart issue. That’s an interpretation issue.
 But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance (based on overall performance metrics). If it got streamed 1.5b times and spent a year on the hot 100 with a lot of that in the top ten, peaked top 3… it “feels” like a hit, etc.

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance (based on overall performance metrics). If it got streamed 1.5b times and spent a year on the hot 100 with a lot of that in the top ten, peaked top 3… it “feels” like a hit, etc.

No peaks don't need to be reflective and no "people actually knowing these hits years later" is not important important.

Here's a little game: Go to any year-end chart from 1980-2009, specifically the Top 25 of each year, then compare how many of those hits are actually amongst the highest streamed songs right now. I mean I'm just saying: does Hanging By a Moment feel like one of the biggest songs of all time? Have any of the hits from the 2000 had the staying power that One More Time or any of Daft Punk's songs that didn't even crack the Top 50?

Hell let's not even use music, let's use movies. Go look at the box office per year and what were the highest grossing, and see how many are actually still remembered vs. what's gotten acclaim and re-evaluation. Does anyone remember that movie Double Jeopardy? No? Well it was the 13th highest grossing movie of 1999, almost triple what Fight Club made

Charts are not meant to validate what you feel are hits or what people think are hits years from now. They are meant to be measurements of what was consumed within a given time whether it be a few days or a couple of weeks. How things happened before aren't how they are today. It ain't the Cretaceous Period, it's the 21st Century and you better adapt with the times if you don't wanna go extinct.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Apr 20, 2024 8:38:47 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Apr 20, 2024 5:48:03 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

No one is doing it like her

But people at pulse (wrong as usual) says she's overexposed and needs a break! LMAO

I get both sides. Her level of fame is really something else rn, and just like she has A LOT of fans, she has A LOT of haters too, and people who don't get why's she THAT popular. Taylor has released 8 projects in 3 years and 9 months, that's around 185 songs (someone's entire career), so I'd say she's definitely overexposed but she'll always be safe because of her fanbase. 
On the other hand, if I were Taylor, I'd do everything the same, this is history making now and an unprecedented level of demand, I mean...3 albums over 1.5M, probably 2nd time 10/10, 1B+ tour, 300M+ day on Spotify...

[👑 Eloquent ™]

To paraphrase her words: might as well get it while people are tolerating her being this successful!

[haven]

Apr 20, 2024 12:06:06 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

This is based off first day numbers, no? she's gonna be 10/10, but i think itll be closer than this says. depends on how hard streams drop off on second day.

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2024 12:23:39 GMT -5 85la said:

Apr 20, 2024 9:14:38 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

the funniest are the people insisting this is it and that she won’t have longevity just when she’s reaching unprecedented heights. She really makes people act very stupid and irrational.

Apr 20, 2024 9:35:24 GMT -5 Caviar said:

I take it more as wishful thinking/bitterness than anything rooted in fact. If my favs were putting up these numbers why on earth would I want them to stop? Also take a break for what? She's getting awfully close to 40 when pop radio dispossess of female artists. She's smart by striking while it's hot.

Posts such as these are in fact "stupid and irrational" lol. How is daring to judge and predict how one's career might go, especially before Friday and earlier when we had no numbers or usage data to go by, and that is anything less than glowing of Taylor and saying that she will always excel to new heights, how is this "stupid and irrational"? No one said that she will flop lol. Many of us are fans ourselves and don't necessarily want her to underperform, we were just predicting that since she is overexposed and might be at the peak of her career, this album might open a little less than her previous ones and have a little less longevity.

Also, since when was 34 "awfully close" to 40? Taking just a few more months or a year's break will not age her much more significantly or make radio far less likely to play her.

Of course, it's so easy to say "we were all wrong" right after you have all the first day's numbers come rolling in.

A hit dog will holler.

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2024 12:45:30 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Apr 20, 2024 12:20:02 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance (based on overall performance metrics). If it got streamed 1.5b times and spent a year on the hot 100 with a lot of that in the top ten, peaked top 3… it “feels” like a hit, etc.

No peaks don't need to be reflective and no "people actually knowing these hits years later" is not important important.

Here's a little game: Go to any year-end chart from 1980-2009, specifically the Top 25 of each year, then compare how many of those hits are actually amongst the highest streamed songs right now. I mean I'm just saying: does Hanging By a Moment feel like one of the biggest songs of all time? Have any of the hits from the 2000 had the staying power that One More Time or any of Daft Punk's songs that didn't even crack the Top 50?

Hell let's not even use music, let's use movies. Go look at the box office per year and what were the highest grossing, and see how many are actually still remembered vs. what's gotten acclaim and re-evaluation. Does anyone remember that movie Double Jeopardy? No? Well it was the 13th highest grossing movie of 1999, almost triple what Fight Club made

Charts are not meant to validate what you feel are hits or what people think are hits years from now. They are meant to be measurements of what was consumed within a given time whether it be a few days or a couple of weeks. How things happened before aren't how they are today. It ain't the Cretaceous Period, it's the 21st Century and you better adapt with the times if you don't wanna go extinct.

There are just a lot of really silly points here, and you come across as being someone only familiar with the streaming gen of the charts. For starters, no one is going “extinct” because Billboard has a qualifying rule that stops them from taking over the top ten for a debut streaming week. Taylor with 2 or 3 ttpd Hot 100 top tens due to a “qualifying week” is still in just as great of a spot in her career as her getting the whole top ten like she will now in reality.

Now the more important thing with what you said here… take any room of 100 people old enough to know popular music back in 2002, and the vast majority of them will be familiar with Hanging By a Moment. It was a huge smash in its day, far from “flash-in-the-pan.” Of course a lot of young people don’t know it, why would they??? That was 25 years ago. Now take people who are prime music consumer age right now and ask them in 25 years about if they know any given one of these numerous one-week hot 100 wonders. It’s gonna be a no from the vast majority. Can you really not see the difference there, and the point?

The overall point being - the hot 100 for decades has carried a certain amount of prestige in the industry. It didn’t get that prestige by being a chart that was constantly flooded by flash in the pan songs. It got the prestige as being THE chart to brag about having a hit on by… gasp… proving most songs peaking highly on it were huge hits. If you can’t understand why it’s problematic for the chart’s reputation that a song that can get streamed a ton FOR FREE for 3 days only (and likely mostly out of pure curiosity listens at that) can be a #1/top ten hot 100 hit so often now, then what can I say?

Except I will also just note that flash in the pan stuff has always been a part of the hot 100. No one is arguing billboard needs to do something to eliminate that entirely. But that becoming the new majority of what the top ten now is from week to week (which is on its way to happening at this rate) will inevitably dilute the h100’s prestige and rep in the industry. But ultimately, that’s on billboard if they want to let that happen. Certainly not me.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

US Spotify - 04/19/24

Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poets Department [16/16]
1(DEBUT) Fortnight 10,875,045
2(DEBUT) The Tortured Poets Department 8,487,090
3(DEBUT) Down Bad 8,087,833
4(DEBUT) So Long, London 7,713,111
5(DEBUT) My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys 7,696,256
6(DEBUT) But Daddy I Love Him 7,176,347
7(DEBUT) Florida!!!! 6,767,891
8(DEBUT) I Can Do It With A Broken Heart 6,386,906
9(DEBUT) Who's Afraid of Little Old Me? 6,114,329
10(DEBUT) Fresh Out the Slammer 6,001,623
11(DEBUT) Guilty as Sin? 5,945,689
12(DEBUT) loml 5,648,085
13(DEBUT) The Alchemy 5,307,636
14(DEBUT) I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) 5,254,784
15(DEBUT) The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived 5,214,108
16(DEBUT) Clara Bow 4,655,263
Total First Day Streams: 107,331,996

Taylor Swift - THE ANTHOLOGY [15/15]
17(DEBUT) thanK you aIMee 3,663,101
18(DEBUT) The Black Dog 3,591,747
19(DEBUT) imgonnagetyouback 3,471,113
20(DEBUT) So High School 3,333,302
21(DEBUT) The Albatross 3,136,079
22(DEBUT) Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus 3,005,442
23(DEBUT) How Did It End? 2,929,778
24(DEBUT) I Hate It Here 2,819,921
26(DEBUT) I Look In People's Windows 2,720,391
27(DEBUT) The Prophecy 2,700,640
28(DEBUT) Cassandra 2,451,570
29(DEBUT) Peter 2,340,509
30(DEBUT) The Bolter 2,227,952
32(DEBUT) The Manuscript 2,132,234
34(DEBUT) Robin 2,011,074
Total First Day Streams: 42,534,853

Overall First Day Streams: 149,866,849

---

TOP 10 WITHOUT TTPD
25(-24) Hozier - Too Sweet 2,777,215 (-27,116)
31(-19) Future, Metro Boomin, Kendrick Lamar - Like That 2,191,358 (-60,298)
33(-30) Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso 2,056,595 (-132,322)
34(DEBUT) Drake - PUSH UPS 1,844,099
35(-31) Artemas - i like the way you kiss me 1,770,544 (+26,771)
37(-32) Chapell Roan - Good Luck, Babe! 1,457,884 (+53,439)
38(-32) Benson Boone - Beautiful Things 1,413,104 (+50,355)
39(-30) Noah Kahan - Stick Season 1,394,658 (+108,073)
40(-33) Ariana Grande - we can't be friends (wait for your love) 1,370,274 (+15,282)
41(-31) Kanye West, Ty Dolla $ign - CARNIVAL 1,291,048 (+17,454)

Other:
42(-29) FloyyMenor, Cris Mj - Gata Only 1,272,853 (+58,762)
43(-28) Bryson Tiller - Whatever She Wants 1,265,883 (+71,781)
44(-33) Future, Metro Boomin, Travis Scott, Playboi Carti - Type Shit 1,262,210 (-533)
45(-31) SZA - Saturn 1,195,664 (+54,682)
46(-38) Djo - End of Beginning 1,210,844 (-109,675)
47(-28) Taylor Swift - Cruel Summer 1,182,824 (+273,067) (+30%)
48(-26) Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) 1,171,130 (+287,920) (+33%)
49(-37) Zach Bryan, Kacey Musgraves - I Remember Everything 1,136,532 (-87,200)
50(-34) Lay Bankz - Tell Ur Girlfriend 1,100,593 (+24,698)
51(-34) Teddy Swims - Lose Control 1,058,238 (-15,709)
52(-34) Travis Scott, Playboi Carti - FE!N 966,176 (+20,241)
53(-33) Tate McRae - greedy 951,348 (+42,252)
54(-29) GloRilla, Megan Thee Stallion - Wanna Be 937,402 (+82,315) (+10%)
55(-34) 21 Savage - redrum 913,433 (+14,515)
56(-32) Dasha - Austin 877,061 (+20,591)
57(+56) $uicideboy$ - Us Vs. Them 839,139 (+405,416) (+93%) *NEW PEAK*
59(DEBUT) $uicideboy$ - Are You Going to See the Rose in the Vase, or the Dust on the Table 814,886
60(-31) Sexyy Red - Get It Sexyy 813,937 (+60,445)
62(-32) Benson Boone - Slow It Down 786,389 (+44,010)
63(-37) Michael Marcagi - Scared to Start 781,526 (-66,122)
64(-33) Rich Amiri - ONE CALL 751,983 (+13,679)
65(-29) d4vd - Feel It 746,203 (+30,894)
66(-34) BigXthaPlug - Mmhmm 728,126 (+5,605)
67(-39) Future, Metro Boomin, The Weeknd - We Still Don't Trust You 699,926 (-104,555) (-13%)
68(-34) Future, Metro Boomin, Travis Scott - Cinderella 695,357 (-23,389)
69(-30) Beyoncé - TEXAS HOLD EM 695,082 (-122)
70(-29) Jack Harlow - Lovin On Me 691,247 (+6,782)
73(-36) Luke Combs - Where the Wild Things Are 670,758 (-34,445)
74(-41) Olivia Rodrigo - obsessed 667,464 (-54,672)
75(-20) Mark Ambor - Belong Together 667,464 (+82,669) (+14%)
77(-37) Chappell Roan - Red Wine Supernova 653,419 (-34,437)
78(-34) The Weeknd, JENNIE, Lily-Rose Depp - One of the Girls 649,414 (-9,511)
79(-26) Tucker Wetmore - Wind Up Missin' You 633,448 (+40,755)
83(-41) Sabrina Carpenter - Feather 608,932 (-69,540)
84(-36) ILLIT - Magnetic 607,048 (-21,578)
86(-32) Xavi - La Diabla 604,383 (+14,171)
87(-44) Ritchy Mitch & The Coal Miners - Evergreen 603,985 (-59,073)
88(-30) Xavi - Corazón de Piedra 596,483 (+36,654)
89(-37) GloRilla - Yeah Glo! 591,173 (-12,910)
90(-33) Zach Bryan - Heading South 587,136 (+14,722)
91(-40) Artemas - if u think i'm pretty 586,475 (-18,802)
94(-31) Fuerza Regida - TÚ NAME 571,638 (+26,489)
96(-35) Flo Milli - Never Lose Me 557,270 (+6,137)
98(-42) Jessie Murph, Jelly Roll - Wild Ones 545,486 (-27,147)
99(-35) Benson Boone - Cry 543,566 (+3,015)

101(-26) BigXthaPlug - Back On My BS 537,923 (+37,007)
102(-37) Don Toliver - Bandit 523,720 (-16,493)
104(-35) Yeat - Breathe 522,213 (+792)
106(-40) TV Girl - Lovers Rock 514,667 (-20,516)
108(-46) Dominic Fike - Babydoll 504,859 (-44,630)
109(-21) Xavi - La Victima 502,460 (+33,691)
115(-43) Zach Bryan - Sun to Me 480,891 (-25,661)
116(-49) Good Neighbors - Home 479,787 (-49,639)
117(-38) Tyla - Water 478,931 (-15,514)
121(-10) Peso Pluma, Tito Double P, Joel De La P - LA PEOPLE II 469,953 (+34,943)
123(-40) A$AP Rocky - Sundress 468,319 (-12,576)
124(-50) TV Girl - Not Allowed 467,717 (-35,027)
125(-52) Ariana Grande - the boy is mine 466,805 (-39,379)
129(-37) Bakar, Summer Walker - Hell N Back Remix 458,582 (+990)
131(-6) Ariana Grande - intro (end of the world) 452,357 (+30,347)
141(RE) Dua Lipa - Houdini 433,087
146(-31) 4batz, Drake - act ii: date @ 8 Remix 427,860 (-5,034)
151(-70) Dua Lipa - Illusion 425,092 (-60,226) (-12%)
153(-8) J. Cole - Crocodile Tearz 420,829 (+24,219)
161(DEBUT) Nicki Minaj, Travis Scott, Chris Brown, Sexyy Red - FTCU Remix 411,874
173(-40) J. Cole - Huntin' Wabbitz 402,788 (-3,143)
174(-36) Ken Carson - overseas 399,020 (-4,472)
181(-45) Dylan Gossett - Coal 392,794-(-11,258)
183(-36) Jungle - Back On 74 391,959 (-4,145)
184(RE) Natanael Cano, Oscar Maydon - Madonna 391,421
187(-44) Noah Kahan - Northern Attitude 390,433 (-8,413)
194(-39) YG Marley - Praise Jah in the Moonlight 387,439 (-4,304)
197(DEBUT) Russ - That's My Girl 384,017
199(-49) Arctic Monkeys - I Wanna Be Yours 382,061 (-11,932)

Biggest Gains (50K+): Lover, Is It Over Now?, Cowgirls, Anti-Hero, august, Belong Together, Get It Sexyy, Us Vs. Them, A Bar Song (Tipsy), Saturn, Whatever She Wants, Stick Season, Beautiful Things, Good Luck Babe!

US TOP 30! WITHOUT TTPD
#1. Too Sweet
#2. Like That
#3. Espresso
#4. PUSH UPS *HIGHEST DEBUT*
#5. i like the way you kiss me
#6. Good Luck, Babe!
#7. Beautiful Things
#8. Stick Season
#9. we can't be friends (wait for your love)
#10. CARNIVAL

#11. Gata Only *NEW PEAK*
#12. Whatever She Wants
#13. Type Shit
#14. Saturn
#15. End of Beginning
#16. Cruel Summer
#17. A Bar Song (Tipsy) *NEW PEAK*
#18. I Remember Everything
#19. Tell Ur Girlfriend
#20. Lose Control

#21. FE!N
#22. greedy
#23. Wanna Be *NEW PEAK*
#24. redrum
#25. Austin
#26. Us Vs. Them *NEW PEAK*
#27. Something in the Orange
#28. Are You Going to See the Rose in the Vase, or the Dust on the Table *DEBUT*
#29. Get It Sexyy
#30. Last Night

[Deleted]

As a TLDR final note here on this subject:

Mariah and The Beatles have the most #1s on the hot 100. They had to score legitimately big hits with nearly every single one of those to achieve that, and that’s why their records are considered so impressive and prestigious. Sure you may have the outlier like Thank God I Found You you can say that’s not really the case for… but it’s most definitely an outlier. They could not just put out literally anything and have their big fanbase go stream the song for free over and over for a week to snatch that hot 100 #1, then freefall. By and large, they had to score legitimate hits for that. The music mattered. Taylor Swift can put out anything (and I do mean anything) right now and it’s a hot 100 #1 debut due to modern chart methodology. The prestige there is gone. And it will keep slipping the more and more that becomes the “norm.”

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Apr 20, 2024 13:12:00 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

Apr 20, 2024 12:45:30 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

No peaks don't need to be reflective and no "people actually knowing these hits years later" is not important important.

Here's a little game: Go to any year-end chart from 1980-2009, specifically the Top 25 of each year, then compare how many of those hits are actually amongst the highest streamed songs right now. I mean I'm just saying: does Hanging By a Moment feel like one of the biggest songs of all time? Have any of the hits from the 2000 had the staying power that One More Time or any of Daft Punk's songs that didn't even crack the Top 50?

Hell let's not even use music, let's use movies. Go look at the box office per year and what were the highest grossing, and see how many are actually still remembered vs. what's gotten acclaim and re-evaluation. Does anyone remember that movie Double Jeopardy? No? Well it was the 13th highest grossing movie of 1999, almost triple what Fight Club made

Charts are not meant to validate what you feel are hits or what people think are hits years from now. They are meant to be measurements of what was consumed within a given time whether it be a few days or a couple of weeks. How things happened before aren't how they are today. It ain't the Cretaceous Period, it's the 21st Century and you better adapt with the times if you don't wanna go extinct.

There are just a lot of really silly points here, and you come across as being someone only familiar with the streaming gen of the charts. For starters, no one is going “extinct” because Billboard has a qualifying rule that stops them from taking over the top ten for a debut streaming week. Taylor with 2 or 3 ttpd Hot 100 top tens due to a “qualifying week” is still in just as great of a spot in her career as her getting the whole top ten like she will now in reality.

Now the more important thing with what you said here… take any room of 100 people old enough to know popular music back in 2002, and the vast majority of them will be familiar with Hanging By a Moment. It was a huge smash in its day, far from “flash-in-the-pan.” Of course a lot of young people don’t know it, why would they??? That was 25 years ago. Now take people who are prime music consumer age right now and ask them in 25 years about if they know any given one of these numerous one-week hot 100 wonders. It’s gonna be a no from the vast majority. Can you really not see the difference there, and the point?

The overall point being - the hot 100 for decades has carried a certain amount of prestige in the industry. It didn’t get that prestige by being a chart that was constantly flooded by flash in the pan songs. It got the prestige as being THE chart to brag about having a hit on by… gasp… proving most songs peaking highly on it were huge hits. If you can’t understand why it’s problematic for the chart’s reputation that a song that can get streamed a ton FOR FREE for 3 days only (and likely mostly out of pure curiosity listens at that) can be a #1/top ten hot 100 hit so often now, then what can I say?

Except I will also just note that flash in the pan stuff has always been a part of the hot 100. No one is arguing billboard needs to do something to eliminate that entirely. But that becoming the new majority of what the top ten now is from week to week (which is on its way to happening at this rate) will inevitably dilute the h100’s prestige and rep in the industry. But ultimately, that’s on billboard if they want to let that happen. Certainly not me.

The extinct line was a joke lmao I can't believe you took that seriously.

And again: why does it matter what remembers what? What "prestige and reputation" is really being damaged because one artist can take up 10 spots of the charts? Like if no other songs were consumed more than Taylor...then doesn't that also share a story? That Taylor Swift at one point was so dominant she could hold the entire Top 10 to herself? How in anyway is that problematic?

No other chart around has this qualifying bullshit. Not in Canada, NZ, Australia, France, UK, etc., because consumption is consumption. If you don't like it, cry me a river, get used to it.

[Az Paynter]

"The charts don't cater to my specific interests!!!" [/end argument]

[avamaxstan]

That user really lost the plot once he invoked Mariah, the original pioneer of chart manipulation tactics to get Hot 100 #1’s for the entire 90s. So unserious lol

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Apr 20, 2024 12:20:02 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

Apr 20, 2024 9:51:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

This comes down to how you’re intepreting to the numbers. The charts have one job. To measure what the most consumed songs are in a 7-day period. Everything else is up to interpretation, whether correct or incorrect. To say a song like Trollz doesn’t “feel like” a number one is to apply a larger range of measurement than intended for the single week that song was #1. It didn’t feel like a number one because, across a longer time period, it’s performance was much lower than the one week it was #1. That’s not a chart issue. That’s an interpretation issue.

But also, if they were to hypothetically do what you suggested and not count a first-week impact of a single, labels and artists would work around that and aim for a third-week push, or some other method that would become common and accepted within the industry.

But there’s no denying it’s stubborn to say that these flash in the pan top tens weren’t all that common on the chart before this decade. It’s not just a matter of “feels like.” I’m a chart nut, so I do analyze the charts, I’m just saying a peak should be more reflective again. And then of course there’s the more important factor of people actually knowing these hits years later. No one outside core Mallards or Swifties are going to know most of these Drake and Taylor “top tens” ever, let alone years later. So me saying “feels like a hit” isn’t just some emotional response, it’s a figure of speech for something factual in this instance (based on overall performance metrics). If it got streamed 1.5b times and spent a year on the hot 100 with a lot of that in the top ten, peaked top 3… it “feels” like a hit, etc.

And if labels want to try “3rd week tactics” or whatever with a qualifying week, let them. There has always been label tactics with the charts. Doesn’t mean we had floods of flash-in-the pan high peaks due to that before this era. There’s zero way for Taylor to get her 12 top 12s out of ttpd with the qualifying week rule, she can try “3rd week tactics” all she wants. It does eliminate most of the issue im referring to.

I think my point was also that the way hits are created and viewed aren’t like it used to be. The charts are a reflection of how people listen to music, and that includes the flash in the pans, which absolutely should be reflected here, as well as the lengthier chart runs. In the end, it’s only deemed an “issue” because people keen viewing the trajectory of charts today with the same lens as they used to see charts in the 80s and 90s. It’s only an issue because it’s not the way it used to be, but the charts are measuring music consumption and this is what it’s finding based on people’s listening habits. There is no issue.

People who look at peaks and think they’re reflective of a song’s success are missing the bigger picture. In the before times, peaks did indicate how big a song was to a degree, but the way music was consumed operated in a more gradual way because without internet, reaction wasn’t as immediate as it is now. Even looking at just the Hot 100 doesn’t tell you much because there are so many acts who are succeeding without reaching the entirety of the populace, which the Hot 100 does. In the end, it’s up to anyone looking at the numbers to determine what they mean. Looking at a chart peak and deciding that’s enough just isn’t. It’s like that with any sort of graph or measurement whether it’s finances, climate or music consumption.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Apr 20, 2024 13:12:00 GMT -5 @pikandru said:

Apr 20, 2024 12:45:30 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

No peaks don't need to be reflective and no "people actually knowing these hits years later" is not important important.

Here's a little game: Go to any year-end chart from 1980-2009, specifically the Top 25 of each year, then compare how many of those hits are actually amongst the highest streamed songs right now. I mean I'm just saying: does Hanging By a Moment feel like one of the biggest songs of all time? Have any of the hits from the 2000 had the staying power that One More Time or any of Daft Punk's songs that didn't even crack the Top 50?

Hell let's not even use music, let's use movies. Go look at the box office per year and what were the highest grossing, and see how many are actually still remembered vs. what's gotten acclaim and re-evaluation. Does anyone remember that movie Double Jeopardy? No? Well it was the 13th highest grossing movie of 1999, almost triple what Fight Club made

Charts are not meant to validate what you feel are hits or what people think are hits years from now. They are meant to be measurements of what was consumed within a given time whether it be a few days or a couple of weeks. How things happened before aren't how they are today. It ain't the Cretaceous Period, it's the 21st Century and you better adapt with the times if you don't wanna go extinct.

There are just a lot of really silly points here, and you come across as being someone only familiar with the streaming gen of the charts. For starters, no one is going “extinct” because Billboard has a qualifying rule that stops them from taking over the top ten for a debut streaming week. Taylor with 2 or 3 ttpd Hot 100 top tens due to a “qualifying week” is still in just as great of a spot in her career as her getting the whole top ten like she will now in reality.

Now the more important thing with what you said here… take any room of 100 people old enough to know popular music back in 2002, and the vast majority of them will be familiar with Hanging By a Moment. It was a huge smash in its day, far from “flash-in-the-pan.” Of course a lot of young people don’t know it, why would they??? That was 25 years ago. Now take people who are prime music consumer age right now and ask them in 25 years about if they know any given one of these numerous one-week hot 100 wonders. It’s gonna be a no from the vast majority. Can you really not see the difference there, and the point?

The overall point being - the hot 100 for decades has carried a certain amount of prestige in the industry. It didn’t get that prestige by being a chart that was constantly flooded by flash in the pan songs. It got the prestige as being THE chart to brag about having a hit on by… gasp… proving most songs peaking highly on it were huge hits. If you can’t understand why it’s problematic for the chart’s reputation that a song that can get streamed a ton FOR FREE for 3 days only (and likely mostly out of pure curiosity listens at that) can be a #1/top ten hot 100 hit so often now, then what can I say?

Except I will also just note that flash in the pan stuff has always been a part of the hot 100. No one is arguing billboard needs to do something to eliminate that entirely. But that becoming the new majority of what the top ten now is from week to week (which is on its way to happening at this rate) will inevitably dilute the h100’s prestige and rep in the industry. But ultimately, that’s on billboard if they want to let that happen. Certainly not me.

You raise some interesting points here but again, I think it’s less about Billboard’s charts and more about their relevance today in the context of music in general. These days, there aren’t as many undeniable hits like past decades. Before, songs were clear hits because they were everywhere for weeks or months. They were heard in places people had little choice but to hear them because the number of avenues available to hear music was limited to radio, tv, and by discovering them through magazines and other forms of media. Nowadays, you have streaming, social media, the internet, endless ways of hearing and discovering music. There is no general public the way there used to be. One can easily go about their days and avoid the “biggest hits” by Drake, Nicki, Olivia, even Taylor, without really trying. It was never like that until streaming became the dominant medium.

Pick the top 25 songs from any hot 100 chart. Hell, pick the top 25 songs of 2023 (because there are less likely to be flash in the pans on that list) and randomly ask people how many they know or recognize. I’d be willing to bet my savings that if we could compare the results of that to the same situation from back in 2005, 1995, or 1985, you’d have a very different result. In today’s landscape, people aren’t as in tune with the hits as they used to be. Yeah, the charts have changed over the years but so too has the way people listen to and are engaged with music. And that, to me, is why the Hot 100 doesn’t hold as much prestige as before, because it’s not as important as it used to be to as many people.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

[theycallmedualian]

top25 early prediction by TOTC. sorry for the low quality image, i pirated it. 

[Caviar]

"Fortnight" occupies #2 and #3.

[Future Captain]

the actual points for taylor will probably be overall lower than the early predictions, but the fact that another top 10 black-out is possible is still insane. drake will probably be closer to the top 10, depending on how day 2/3 for Push Ups looks like. also, wonder how long until they combine the versions on AM

[thegreatdivine]

Apr 20, 2024 14:39:29 GMT -5 Caviar said:

"Fortnight" occupies #2 and #3.

"We are being harmed" is certainly some charged, victim Swiftie speak. This happens with any album that has multiple versions on Apple Music. It usually takes Apple Music a few days to resolve but it really doesn't matter because all the streams are accounted for regardless. Swifties need to relax.