Katy Perry - “Lifetimes”

[HEADOFTHEPACK]

Aug 27, 2024 21:31:07 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Katy's career is somewhat of a cautionary tale for future pop girls. Her core market was the general public and pop radio. Yes the fanbase was there, but it wasn't huge or fanatical compared to her peers.

During Katy's imperial era as the top pop girl, Charli xcx also had a brief run of mainstream success. Realizing that the moment would fade, Charli stopped catering to radio and the gp, instead evolving her sound and earning a niche, diehard fanbase that grew over years. Now a decade later, Charli's career is reaching new heights while Katy's has been on life support for years and is unable to even chart new singles. It's a valuable lesson: focus less on the momentary approval of the masses, and more on building a loyal community.

KP just isn't that kind of artist though. Which is why her past handful of albums haven't done as well. She's as good and as successful as her last hit single, that was always the case. Which is fine, but it means you have a shelf life. And that best by date passed quite a few years ago.

I'm not sure about that assessment of Charli, it wasn't a strategic turn away from radio into a less mainstream sound, the 'big push' just didn't work out and by the sounds of it, wasn't really her style anyway, but maybe it can be, but then it's not - she's written about that so many times. She can also do both, before this era she would pop into the UK top 10 every now and again with a feature or have a smash co-write (Senorita is an example). They're very different imo.

[Dylan :)]

Sept 7, 2024 9:50:05 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Sept 7, 2024 9:17:11 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Exactly. We can't pick and choose. Give everyone the same energy. Not just one purpose cause of stature.

Yeah, but she was given the same energy. That's what seems to be continually and purposefully misunderstood no matter how many times it is said. Some of y'all clearly weren't in Kim's threads nor have seen the articles written about her in reference to Luke and just have this "people pick on poor ole Katy" mentality. lol

When it comes to anyone defending and working with an accused rapist they should be held accountable for those actions. In terms of Kim and Katy, they both deserved to be held accountable, but with that said, those were two completely different situations and anyone who can't see that I question if they can see the nuances of anything in life. Katy's involvement will always be much worse in my eyes because she wasn't under contract, was involved in the actual trial with Kesha and Luke, and could easily have chosen not to work with him without legal repercussions. Period.

Praying came out in 2017, three years after Kesha sued Dr Luke. 2017 was the same year as Kim Petras’ debut single with Dr Luke. As far as I can see, she signed with Dr Luke’s label in 2021. She might be on a contract now, but as far as I can see, she wasn’t in 2016/2017. You seem to be giving Kim Petras a pass you’re not willing to Katy Perry because Kim is a trans artist? As well as this, Kim defended her working with Luke in 2022

As for this whole Dr Luke thing. Paris Hilton worked with Dr Luke in 2023. Kesha and Paris seem to be friends. Kesha hasn’t spoken out against Katy, and as far as I remember, she hasn’t spoken out against Kim, Nicki or Doja. Yet here we all are doing it for her when we don’t even know if that’s what she wants?

[Maximillian]

Sept 7, 2024 9:21:26 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

When did Kim sign with Luke? Was the whole Kesha thing known then? If so, then she's no different than anyone else who works with Luke, trans or cis

I posted a lengthy post about it up on this page a few days ago. She’s rumored to be tied into a 5-8 album deal with him and he has publishing rights that appears to pre-date that label deal. She’s contractually f*d at the moment with him.

She’s also not stood up for him in years, and a few years ago she alluded to Luke holding back her music with a post online she was crying about the “label” holding back several albums worth of music (Luke is the label). It’s also rumored she’s trying to rush albums to end the deal (she’s dropped 5 albums in 2 years). It’s well known if you don’t play nice with Luke, Luke will try to hinder you.

I think she’s done her best to distance from him as much as she can in recent years. The same way Doja has tried also. Kim was young when she met Luke and has no real recourse until she finishes her contracts.

But I think my point has some validity to it - a trans woman attempting to pioneer a lane (where most producers and labels wouldn’t touch signing her), vs the 40 year old mother with a $500m net worth are not equals and shouldn’t be judged on the same playing field. Very different levels of privilege is afforded to Katy.

That doesn’t mean Kim (And Doja, Nicki, etc) can’t and shouldn’t be held accountable to some degree. I just think framing the context has value.

For the record, I also don’t think Kim wanted to be making albums or raunchy throw away pop songs, but she’s trying her best to have a career after all this is done.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Sept 7, 2024 11:15:38 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

You seem to be giving Kim Petras a pass you’re not willing to Katy Perry because Kim is a trans artist?

Oh lord here we go with putting words in my mouth. If you actually read what I wrote I clearly said anyone defending an accused rapist deserves to be held accountable and even cited that both Katy and Kim desevered criticism/to be held accountable. Me citing I believe the two vary in the degree of criticism they should receive is not "giving a pass" to literally anyone. It's absolutely my opinion which I have a right to.

Kesha hasn’t spoken out against Katy, and as far as I remember, she hasn’t spoken out against Kim, Nicki or Doja. Yet here we all are doing it for her when we don’t even know if that’s what she wants?

Kesha absolutely posted "lol" the day "Woman's World" was released inferring to Katy on Twitter or "X" which publications absolutely picked up on and she absolutely was cited in a phonecall with Lady GaGa discussing how "mean" Katy is. So, yeah, there's that.

Sept 7, 2024 10:17:27 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Respectfully, We're all allowed to feel a different perspective based on Katy's involvement in the case. I will leave it alone now.

"Feeling different" isn't the issue. It's continually spreading misinformation that other artists who some keep continually circling weren't criticized for their involvement when in fact they absolutely were criticized which has been noted in several instances now, in several threads we've all been privy to is the issue. It's glazing over the noteable backlash Kim and others received to try and paint Katy as some singled out victim of her own circumstances via blatant untruths and not her level of criticism being in direct proportion to her celebrity.

And thank you @maximillian brilliantly put and exactly what I was saying as well. What are the ramifications of Katy speaking out vs Kim? Katy doesn't get anymore work with Luke and she goes on to do exactly what she could've done before, her career intact, good press, nothing lost. Now what happens with Kim? She potentially is held captive under contract by Luke as he stiffles her career and possibly her future and even if she somehow breaks away the odds are stacked against her to find another label easily due to her trans status (being trans does make things more complicated whether or not cis people choose to believe it does) which made it so challenging for her to get signed in the first place. I never said both shouldn't be held accountable, but for people to act like they had the same decision to make under the same set of circumstances with the same potential outcomes is truly absurd. It's not about "giving Kim a pass". It's about realizing she had/has so much more to lose and so much less privilege than Katy and I can understand moreso why she would be more reluctant to challenge Luke (doesn't mean I even agree with her) as opposed to a veteran star with all the privilege and power Kim doesn't have like Katy. For y'all to be like "nah, no difference" is just ....well a take.

[Dylan :)]

I’m interested to see what people’s thoughts are on what I posted about Paris Hilton and Kesha. As for the Kim stuff. As I pointed out, Kim signed the contract with Luke after Kesha brought Dr Luke to court. Kim wasn’t forced to sign with Dr Luke. And she defended working with him as lately as 2022 so it hasn’t exactly been “years”

I will add again though that I absolutely think Katy was wrong, both morally and strategically, to work with Luke again. I just find it interesting how the topic is being discussed. For example, the general public seems to have completely forgotten about everything Chris Brown has done. It’s also interesting that women are being held accountable for Luke’s actions

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Sept 7, 2024 13:43:17 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

For example, the general public seems to have completely forgotten about everything Chris Brown has done. It’s also interesting that women are being held accountable for Luke’s actions

1.) Chris Brown still has a successful career because his target audience and demographic isn't the same as pop stars who've been on the receiving end of backlash like Katy, not to mention his incident was nearly 20 years ago. It's the same reason Nicki Minaj still has career despite marring a rapist and keeping herself in so much drama. Backlash depends on your audience and what they personally find unacceptable/unforgivable along with a myriad of other contributing factors, which I would assume most people would understand. I will say Chris's pop career absolutely took a huge hit. He hasn't had a string of hit songs on pop radio for years and years.

2.) No one is holding any woman accountable for Luke's actions. They're holding women accountable for their own actions. Not a single person has accused Katy or other women of rape. People are holding her accountable for her choice and decision to go out of her way when it wasn't even necessary to work with an accused rapist on an album centered on female empowerment no less. I don't know how you're conflating the two.

[Dylan :)]

Regarding point two, I wasn’t suggesting anyone here was and that’s my bad. I worded it wrong. My point was that I feel people hate Katy, Kim, Doja, etc for what Luke did more than Luke himself. Also, as I pointed out in another thread, there’s no backlash anywhere from what I’ve seen towards Max Martin

As for your earlier point about the “lol”, on top of it not being proven to be about Katy, I also again point out Paris Hilton. She worked with Dr Luke last year and yet her and Kesha seem to be friends/friendly. We have no proof Kesha has an issue with anyone working with Luke, just speculation

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Sept 7, 2024 14:14:04 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

Regarding point two, I wasn’t suggesting anyone here was and that’s my bad. I worded it wrong. My point was that I feel people hate Katy, Kim, Doja, etc for what Luke did more than Luke himself.

I have no clue and can't comment on people and how they feel with statements they've made outside this forum I haven't even seen. Personally everyone I've seen criticize Katy have just been personally disappointed in her being a woman championing and propping up an accused rapist when she absolutely didn't have to but hand-selected (after previously distancing herself from him with Witness), while exclaiming female and woman empowerment and how she is trying to "celebrate women", which is not only wildly tone-deaf, but irresponsible.

Also, as I pointed out in another thread, there’s no backlash anywhere from what I’ve seen towards Max Martin

I addressed this once before. Max Martin is a producer. Producers don't have large followings. Do you see any Max Martin threads to write in? Why would you be expecting some large backlash for a person who isn't even relevant to casual listeners or most people? He's only relevant to people who follow the process of music production closely and artists/industry people and most aren't invested in him or his life or decisions whatsoever. Backlash reception is going to be relative to the size of the celebrity. The bigger the star, the worse the backlash. This is pretty basic logic.

As for your earlier point about the “lol”, on top of it not being proven to be about Katy,

If you wanna play that game feel free. Most got exactly what she was saying without her having to spell it out and insert herself into discussions with her alleged abuser again.

I also again point out Paris Hilton. She worked with Dr Luke last year and yet her and Kesha seem to be friends/friendly.

I don't follow Paris Hilton. Wouldn't know a thing about that.

We have no proof Kesha has an issue with anyone working with Luke, just speculation

Again, you can play that game if you like.

[Choco]

Another point is that Luke is basically impossible to cancel. You'd have to remove a huge chunk of music for him to stop getting royalties and even then his publishing companies and his proteges under contract will still bring him money. Fans have resorted to publicly shaming anyone working with him to try and dry out any new revenue streams.

Who the fuck cares about Paris Hilton. She's a walking meme. She probably didn't even know who produced the track when it got to her desk and she half assed some vocals over the demo lady. You can't expect people to care about her as much as they do Katy. Katy is the one trying to sell feminism over beats produced by someone who, even if you take out the Kesha allegations, has had issues with Kelly Clarkson, Doja Cat, Lady Gaga, Becky G, Demi Lovato and Pink.

[Az Paynter]

Anyway... for lack of anything else I really might've thought radio would have taken a tiny more initiative with this. At the very least enough for a top 50 showing the way it did on Hot AC.

POP (MOCK-UP):
?? ?? KATY PERRY LIFETIMES 87 76 11 0.091

= Spins
-3 Bullet
= Audience

HOT AC:
51 50 KATY PERRY LIFETIMES 83 97 -14 0.192

-3 Spins
-1 Bullet
-0.001 Audience

[Az Paynter]

Stations back on the Leaders list... and out at Hot AC again.

POP (MOCK-UP):
?? ?? KATY PERRY LIFETIMES 95 84 11 0.093

+8 Spins
= Bullet
+0.002 Audience

HOT AC:
Out of top 50 (pending final update).

[chickythelittlechicken]

So these pop spins are probably "testing" from stations?

[Choco]

Sept 8, 2024 7:05:25 GMT -5 chickythelittlechicken said:

So these pop spins are probably "testing" from stations?

Curiosity spins. They don't have a current active single to support. Under 100 spins weekly still means under 1 spin per station per week so it's literally next to nothing.

[eyeofthestorm]

I know you feel it...can you believe it...im gonna luv you to the end and then repeat it...

[Choco]

Now why did that VMA performance sell me on this? Take out the Luke credit and make it the lead and... it still flops but not as miserably and becomes a gay favorite on Twitter or something.

[Ryan]