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Post by Mayman on Sept 3, 2024 13:15:01 GMT -5
Travis still has a shot at #1 later down the line if he decides to ship both the CDs and vinyl at the same time. His website said CDs ship 1-2 weeks after release while vinyl ships 2-3 weeks after release.
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Sept 3, 2024 13:30:42 GMT -5
Travis still has a shot at #1 later down the line if he decides to ship both the CDs and vinyl at the same time. His website said CDs ship 1-2 weeks after release while vinyl ships 2-3 weeks after release. He will probably get #1 in 2 weeks for sure. |
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Sept 3, 2024 13:42:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure the specifics, might be the case, I just knew there were limitations on how many purchases could be made per person so it isn't like someone could just go and by 10,000 copies of something. Regardless I still find these insinuations of "fans going wild and buying in bulk" moot at best, because if we look at Taylor for example (whose arguably the biggest artist to be able to benefit from this), variants barely boosted her near 6 million figure by maybe 200k copies total. So variants are never gonna make some huge discrepancy between sales without vs sales with their use. People are really exaggerating their potential affects. Even the potential example with Travis you cited is going to be very very rare in instance, especially in this economy of someone who could even afford 120 albums. its not about the sales total, per se. Didn't Taylor block like 7 other artists from #1 with her weekly variants? When she WOULDN'T have been #1 otherwise? It's those types of shady chart tactics that people have more issue with, not the sales themselves. No, she didn't keep "like 7" artists from #1. The variants only helped her secure 3 of her 15 weeks at #1 for the 50th time. Billie being the most notable artist she "blocked" even employed variants herself so. lol Twelve of her #1 weeks would've been secured even without the use of "all those extra variants". Again, people in their variant hysteria are absolutely exaggerating the overall benefit of variants and again there was minimal padding to sales AND her #1 run at the end of the day. To achieve #1 with variants, you're gonna have to be within spitting distance of #1 to begin with. |
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clsvltn
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Post by clsvltn on Sept 3, 2024 13:43:50 GMT -5
Glad Sabrina won, but Travis is really a threat. Especially for his next , new full length album. With physicals available at launch, he could be a million contender if bundles are in play as well. Should easily clear 600k+ since this old mixtape did nearly 400K lol
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Khia
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Post by Khia on Sept 3, 2024 14:48:19 GMT -5
Wow, a lot happened in here overnight. Some people desperately need to touch grass. I know the posts were deleted but this is not an isolated incident in these threads.
An essay over a simple one-liner about Travis Scott is... something. Quite an overreaction to what I thought was clearly me making an exaggerated statement. Saying that Travis makes "trash music" is not an attempt to state that his music is objectively bad. Obviously he's doing something right to be as popular as he is. I just don't like him or his music. And I don't really feel the need to qualify everything I say with an "in my opinion" attached. Sometimes we have to read between the lines.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 3, 2024 14:57:44 GMT -5
My rule suggestion would be whatever the tracklisting of an album is at the beginning of its original release is the album tracklist going forward for chart purposes. Anything added doesnβt count toward the album total. Exactly how that looks for physical re-releases, Iβm not sure. Maybe re-releases and deluxe versions simply count as separate titles of the album. Sure, it might lead to 3 versions of Short n Sweet in the top 10 at the same time, but at least youβd have an accurate picture of which version was selling/streaming the most.
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Music Fan
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Post by Music Fan on Sept 3, 2024 15:08:59 GMT -5
My rule suggestion would be whatever the tracklisting of an album is at the beginning of its original release is the album tracklist going forward for chart purposes. Anything added doesnβt count toward the album total. Exactly how that looks for physical re-releases, Iβm not sure. Maybe re-releases and deluxe versions simply count as separate titles of the album. Sure, it might lead to 3 versions of Short n Sweet in the top 10 at the same time, but at least youβd have an accurate picture of which version was selling/streaming the most. I think it make sense to have both the original, one deluxe version, and a re-release (with specific rules of how much time can occur for a re-release) count as one. But having the original, the original + 3 songs as a "deluxe", the original + 1 acoustic song, the original + 3 live versions", the original but in green, etc. should not be allowed. This should also apply to "tacking" songs onto an album on streaming platforms, although I am not sure how simple that would be to parse out. |
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lurker2
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Post by lurker2 on Sept 3, 2024 15:23:22 GMT -5
I'd say an original, a deluxe, and maybe re-masters/rereleases X years after. Like, for really old stuff that sticks around the bottom of the top 200 it'd be weird if it didn't include the latest re-masters imo
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 3, 2024 15:57:26 GMT -5
My rule suggestion would be whatever the tracklisting of an album is at the beginning of its original release is the album tracklist going forward for chart purposes. Anything added doesnβt count toward the album total. Exactly how that looks for physical re-releases, Iβm not sure. Maybe re-releases and deluxe versions simply count as separate titles of the album. Sure, it might lead to 3 versions of Short n Sweet in the top 10 at the same time, but at least youβd have an accurate picture of which version was selling/streaming the most. I think it make sense to have both the original, one deluxe version, and a re-release (with specific rules of how much time can occur for a re-release) count as one. But having the original, the original + 3 songs as a "deluxe", the original + 1 acoustic song, the original + 3 live versions", the original but in green, etc. should not be allowed. This should also apply to "tacking" songs onto an album on streaming platforms, although I am not sure how simple that would be to parse out. I think itβs just a matter of Billboard setting a precedent and labels falling in line like they did with bundles. Once deluxe editions and multiple versions of an album with slightly different tracklistings no longer count toward a parent album, labels will stop using it as a tactic and adapt to something else that benefits them on paper. I'd say an original, a deluxe, and maybe re-masters/rereleases X years after. Like, for really old stuff that sticks around the bottom of the top 200 it'd be weird if it didn't include the latest re-masters imo Then it could be labeled as βThe White Album (2024 Remaster)β or something. |
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Sept 3, 2024 16:31:49 GMT -5
This forum is starting to feel like ATRL with all this mess, I'm living for it
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 3, 2024 17:08:55 GMT -5
its not about the sales total, per se. Didn't Taylor block like 7 other artists from #1 with her weekly variants? When she WOULDN'T have been #1 otherwise? It's those types of shady chart tactics that people have more issue with, not the sales themselves. No, she didn't keep "like 7" artists from #1. The variants only helped her secure 3 of her 15 weeks at #1 for the 50th time. Billie being the most notable artist she "blocked" even employed variants herself so. lol Twelve of her #1 weeks would've been secured even without the use of "all those extra variants". Again, people in their variant hysteria are absolutely exaggerating the overall benefit of variants and again there was minimal padding to sales AND her #1 run at the end of the day. To achieve #1 with variants, you're gonna have to be within spitting distance of #1 to begin with. Trending at 217k midweek vs. 317k for your competitor is not within spitting distance of #1. |
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jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Sept 3, 2024 18:03:02 GMT -5
looks like we are not getting a prediction for next week today from HDD . they might want to wait and see if Travis has any more tricks coming. anyway i am very happy Sabrina got it this week.
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Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint on Sept 3, 2024 18:05:43 GMT -5
I'll see y'all long winded essays writing, keyboard warrior selves next week when Sabrina is still #1 and we still out here defending Taylor Sparks and her 19 variants !!
So happy for this non problematic queen π she really deserves all the moment,shine and accolades
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Sept 3, 2024 18:44:55 GMT -5
Trending at 217k midweek vs. 317k for your competitor is not within spitting distance of #1. Well firstly I was referring to placement not copies sold, as Travis was predicted to debut just behind Sabrina at #2, no? So he wasn't jumping 20 positions with variants which is what I was more referring to: you're not going to see an artist predicted to debut at #30 suddenly debut #1 with 10 variants. They're generally going to have to be considerably close. #2 is what I would consider spitting distance from #1 (I'd actually argue top 3 is spitting distance from #1). Furthermore there are always going to be exceptions to the rule in terms of sales, but I assumed that went without saying (I guess not). Most artists aren't going to be pulling in 100k in variants, period. Only the biggest artists with huge commercial pull are going to be able to pull in bigger figures (and that's even relatively speaking) compared to their contemporaries and even then it's still not going to make up the majority of their sales which was my whole point about sales in particular. Travis also not only had variants, but the buzz of a particularly competitive week to help bolster his sales btw (not that sales was what I was even referencing, but yeah). =) |
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lurker2
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Post by lurker2 on Sept 3, 2024 19:15:13 GMT -5
Honestly, a part of me would prefer a streaming-only chart, I question how many people listen to the physical copies they buy. I know it's a good amount, so this would be super impractical right now, but I'd be SUPER curious to at least see what a Streaming 200 would look like.
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Khia
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Post by Khia on Sept 3, 2024 19:31:06 GMT -5
So thrilled for Sabrina! Her album is fantastic and this #1 is so deserved. It's been insane and so fun watching her break through the way she has.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Sept 3, 2024 19:44:12 GMT -5
Honestly, a part of me would prefer a streaming-only chart, I question how many people listen to the physical copies they buy. I know it's a good amount, so this would be super impractical right now, but I'd be SUPER curious to at least see what a Streaming 200 would look like. They already launched a streaming/SEA only album chart. www.billboard.com/charts/top-streaming-albums/ |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 3, 2024 20:34:48 GMT -5
Honestly, a part of me would prefer a streaming-only chart, I question how many people listen to the physical copies they buy. I know it's a good amount, so this would be super impractical right now, but I'd be SUPER curious to at least see what a Streaming 200 would look like. Haven't many people who buy vinyl acknowledged that don't even have a record player? Or more so, said they aren't listening to the vinyls? To that end, someone who buys a vinyl just to have it sitting on a shelf or something isn't buying it for the music. There's no way to know why someone buys an album of course, but to me it does seem silly to think someone buying a physical product to sit on a shelf or something somehow means the album itself is popular. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 3, 2024 21:21:53 GMT -5
Streaming has given us (well, Billboard and the industry, but us by association) the luxury of seeing how people listen to music whereas before, it was all about sales and we never really had any idea how often people listened to the music they bought - but it might also be worth mentioning that there were points in time (the 90s) that were known for people buying albums because they wanted the single and admitting that they didn't like the rest of the album, so those sat on shelves gathering dust too.
In the end, it really comes down to what the album chart is trying to measure, and I think it's attempt to be the be-all-end-all of popularity is also its weakest quality, because it attempts to lump continuous engagement with music (streaming) with one-time-purchasing (sales) that may or may not result in people actually listening to it. To some degree, it's measuring popularity I guess, but it might be a reminder that the album chart (and the Hot 100 too I guess) isn't a measurement of how much people are listening to something. It's mainly a measurement of how much engagement albums have with the public for that particular week - even if that engagement will soon just be gathering dust on a shelf. (which therefore means if you want true popularity that is being measured, the streaming charts might be your best bet, even if they themselves have audience limitations).
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Sept 3, 2024 21:30:17 GMT -5
My line of thinking is if we're going to be so critical of sales we can be just as critical of streams too. How do we know people just don't casually select a song and then get busy and not even listen to it or leave the room etc? How do we know a song was placed on a playlist amidst a party and wasn't even personally selected by most to be heard or even that they wanted to hear it? How do we know the song wasn't recommended and played automatically without the listeners consent? What about people who chose a song accidentally and they're unable to change it at that moment? Like these criticisms would be endless and no one would ever be 100% happy with the way things are calculated. lol
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 3, 2024 21:37:07 GMT -5
Most of those scenarios the song is still being heard, which should still count anyway. Intent or desire and enjoyability can't be measured. The only instance above is people playing a song/playlist and then leaving and no one actually hears it, but that's also not something that can be measured against a total anyway. There'll always be room for error of some sort.
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Eqbk
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Post by Eqbk on Sept 3, 2024 22:20:36 GMT -5
So happy for Sabrina! Her getting a #1 has been the culmination of all the work she's put in to achieve success ever since she left Hollywood Records (for a real label, lol). Emails I Can't Send made me pay attention to her and made me see her potential but I definitely didn't foresee this level of success.
It's a shame that she was almost denied this crowning achievement because others had to come in to try and spoil the moment despite her having a healthy lead. This should have been a week where she (and chart watchers) were able to just enjoy the moment and appreciate how all her hard work finally paid off. Instead, she had to fight until the very last minute because Billboard has yet to address an issue that is clearly been overly exploited.
Not only has Billboard not addressed this issue but they have, at times, seemed defensive about it. What's also frustrating is that I get the feeling they've avoided changing the rules for reasons other than thinking the chart's legitimacy is just fine with the current rules. They want the headlines, they want the fan engagement, they want the clicks. This whole thing has kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, and has further tainted Billboard in my eyes. I get that they are a business, but have some integrity.
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Sept 3, 2024 22:21:33 GMT -5
Most of those scenarios the song is still being heard, which should still count anyway. Intent or desire and enjoyability can't be measured. The only instance above is people playing a song/playlist and then leaving and no one actually hears it, but that's also not something that can be measured against a total anyway. There'll always be room for error of some sort. That's why all this nit-picking seems trivial to me tbh, because a lot of it is nuanced and most of it can't even be accurately measured. If it doesn't matter if the person selected to stream the song or not, if it was out of their control, then it certainly shouldn't matter if someone intentionally purchased an album, but just didn't listen to it yet. At least with one scenario you have the individual showing genuine interest in the artist/material and an intent to do so. I would think an album bought by 50,000 people is a more accurate representation of what's actually popular, as opposed to 50,000 streams where half weren't intentionally streamed, nor was the song actively listened to. But that's just me and why I leave it up to professionals to sort out how best to quantify it all, because when we start splitting hairs things become harder and harder to accurately tabulate. lol |
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Sept 4, 2024 0:19:49 GMT -5
Yay Sabrina. You deserve it so much unlike Travis. You go. β€οΈ She doesnt know u π Okay and I don't know you? So don't talk to me like you're my Mother or something. What a weird type of flex and even weirder people liked it. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 4, 2024 7:31:36 GMT -5
Streaming has given us (well, Billboard and the industry, but us by association) the luxury of seeing how people listen to music whereas before, it was all about sales and we never really had any idea how often people listened to the music they bought - but it might also be worth mentioning that there were points in time (the 90s) that were known for people buying albums because they wanted the single and admitting that they didn't like the rest of the album, so those sat on shelves gathering dust too. Well, if they listened to that 1 song it wasn't necessarily sitting on the shelf, but regardless that sale showed an initial interest in the music and was then only counted for that 1 week and not future weeks. To me, anyway, that's different from buying 4 different vinyls because they have different colors or something and then never playing any of them. |
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Post by balletgirlmom on Sept 4, 2024 8:06:58 GMT -5
Both did so well. They sure sold albums and nowadays not easy. So, this week Sabrina and in many other weeks, Travis. Both have huge fan bases and talent, so they will both continue to put out music, sell and stream.
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websites
Charting
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Post by websites on Sept 4, 2024 15:02:36 GMT -5
Okay and I don't know you? So don't talk to me like you're my Mother or something. What a weird type of flex and even weirder people liked it. Im not your mother nor am i acting like i know you in any way. I just thought the parasocial comment was quite funny and so did some others. |
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Sept 5, 2024 7:30:55 GMT -5
Did they ever post the top 50? I use it to track sales
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 5, 2024 10:58:04 GMT -5
^Nope. Once in a while they don't update it.
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Sept 5, 2024 11:39:00 GMT -5
Okay and I don't know you? So don't talk to me like you're my Mother or something. What a weird type of flex and even weirder people liked it. Im not your mother nor am i acting like i know you in any way. I just thought the parasocial comment was quite funny and so did some others. Well, that's very cute and thoughtful of you but I didn't find anything I said to be warranted for a *she doesn't know you* comment. All I did was express I was happy she went #1 yet I get the weird reply. Plenty of other people here said similar stuff yet I get singled out. I know shade when I see it sister. But idc in all honesty lol |
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