atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 6, 2009 19:42:12 GMT -5
Yeah I'd say these need to be in place: -Really popular last CD -Huge current (not past) fan base -Lots of promo/hype -Repressed downloads -Airplay on rhythmic, urban, and CHR (since they have the highest spin #s)
Don't think repressed downloads guarantees #1 hit on Hot 100, but seems like it greatly increases chances
Also still think lots of fans will download a song first week without ever hearing it (I've done it tons of times lol)
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,349
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jun 6, 2009 20:11:15 GMT -5
DFAU went to #3 based on airplay alone, so that would have went #1 regardless, and TMB was a big, big airplay hit as well. Those are the only two songs that I remember Mariah repressing on iTunes. And again, repressing doesn't always work either. Mariah isn't doing anything wrong. ROFLMAO!!!! You do know who wrote that right?
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 7, 2009 9:03:42 GMT -5
If she "is" what? Cheating? Please read the rest of the posts. It's marketing, not cheating. Bye Bye was repressed too. Didn't hit #1, did it? If Mariah/IDJ "cheated" couldn't they have "cheated" that one to the top too? lol. For the record, TMB had over 100m audience impressions and was already in the top 20 of the Hot 100 when it went to #1. That's not outlandish at all, seeing as artists are going from like #99 to #1 these days. It was already a solid hit. I was trying to defend Mariah not offend Mariah. My entire statement was based on accusations. Ok sorry. Guess I should have figured that out w/ Mariah in your avatar and all. I guess we are arguing the same point. THe title of this thread still annoys me though. lol.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2009 11:54:01 GMT -5
So a #1 is only a legitimate hit if it hits #1 on Pop radio? LOL Does he know that TMB number two on Hot Airplay and R&B?
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 12:34:14 GMT -5
So a #1 is only a legitimate hit if it hits #1 on Pop radio? LOL Does he know that TMB number two on Hot Airplay and R&B? Yeah that passage def. doesn't sound right...think what he meant is Take A Bow hit #1 on CHR while Touch My Body didn't hit #1 on any radio format (I think), but agreed that the whole legitimate thing makes it sound like CHR is more important
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2009 12:42:12 GMT -5
There's no point debating the faults in the semantics when he clearly has no idea what he's going on about in the big picture either.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 12:44:45 GMT -5
^Yeah I actually went back and read the rest of the blog online, and he goes on to say that Hot 100 Airplay should be 50% CHR, 35% Hot AC, and 15% Rhythmic (and 0% other formats)
|
|
elementd5
4x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 4,084
|
Post by elementd5 on Jun 7, 2009 13:22:48 GMT -5
DFAU went to #3 based on airplay alone... #2 based on airplay alone ;)
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 13:35:10 GMT -5
^Wait so without the repressed downloads, it could very well have peaked at #2 on the Hot 100... (I'm not backin up the whole article, just sayin repressed downloads can only boost a song up to #1 if it has high Hot 100 Airplay) - actually same with Touch My Body since its airplay peaked at #2
|
|
elementd5
4x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 4,084
|
Post by elementd5 on Jun 7, 2009 14:14:30 GMT -5
^Wait so without the repressed downloads, it could very well have peaked at #2 on the Hot 100... (I'm not backin up the whole article, just sayin repressed downloads can only boost a song up to #1 if it has high Hot 100 Airplay) - actually same with Touch My Body since its airplay peaked at #2 DFAU was #1 in Airplay & #2 on the overall Hot 100 (which is pretty amazing that its airplay was that massive) the week before it was digitally released; however, it's impossible to make any assumptions about how high it would have gotten if the single wasn't repressed. If someone has the sales/airplay #s for that week...maybe it could have gotten to #1 w/o sales, but I don't know.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 14:35:16 GMT -5
^Oh sorry thought you meant it was #2 in Airplay - seems like in situations like that repressing downloads is the "safer" move if your goal is to hit #1 H100, but yeah no way to prove it...I guess what I'm stuck on is why else you would possibly want to hold off digital single availability for that amount of time
|
|
elementd5
4x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 4,084
|
Post by elementd5 on Jun 7, 2009 14:40:13 GMT -5
^Oh sorry thought you meant it was #2 in Airplay - seems like in situations like that repressing downloads is the "safer" move if your goal is to hit #1 H100, but yeah no way to prove it...I guess what I'm stuck on is why else you would possibly want to hold off digital single availability for that amount of time Yep, that is the question. But, I'm not gon' knock her hustle.
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 7, 2009 18:01:20 GMT -5
^Wait so without the repressed downloads, it could very well have peaked at #2 on the Hot 100... (I'm not backin up the whole article, just sayin repressed downloads can only boost a song up to #1 if it has high Hot 100 Airplay) - actually same with Touch My Body since its airplay peaked at #2 Perhaps it would have been "only" #2 if there had been no digital single at all, but I think it's safe to say, regardless of release timing, with even a lesser degree of sales it probably would have still hit #1, seeing as it was #1 on Hot 100 airplay.
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 7, 2009 18:03:11 GMT -5
By the way, this is at least the third time I've seen people writing about how "not all of Mariah's #1s are real" and there was chart manipulation etc. It's a pointless and dumb argument, and even more ridiculous to specifically call Mariah out on it. I guess massive success brings out the "haters".
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 18:30:21 GMT -5
By the way, this is at least the third time I've seen people writing about how "not all of Mariah's #1s are real" Weaver, they were real...the question is whether they were big hits - the Hot 100 isn't magic
|
|
hidizzyguy
8x Platinum Member
hello
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 8,800
|
Post by hidizzyguy on Jun 7, 2009 18:58:58 GMT -5
to answer the question.
No.
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 7, 2009 20:34:59 GMT -5
By the way, this is at least the third time I've seen people writing about how "not all of Mariah's #1s are real" Weaver, they were real...the question is whether they were big hits - the Hot 100 isn't magic I'm not sure where that's coming from. You are correct, it isn't "magic." That's why, regardless of how the song amasses enough chart points to hit #1, it's a big deal. Like I, and others, have stated, AS NAUSEUM, if a song doesn't have enough of a following, no amount of promotion/download repression/discount single stuff is going to make it be #1. Plently of artists/labels employ the technique, and do not make it to #1 on the Hot 100.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 21:29:41 GMT -5
Weaver, they were real...the question is whether they were big hits - the Hot 100 isn't magic I'm not sure where that's coming from. You are correct, it isn't "magic." That's why, regardless of how the song amasses enough chart points to hit #1, it's a big deal. It's a big deal for THAT WEEK...the question is whether some of her songs are rising to #1 on the wave of repressed downloading, and then having condensed chart runs so that she goes straight to #1 but spends fewer weeks on the chart than most songs that peak at say #5 (kinda feel like we've gone over this...)
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 7, 2009 21:35:02 GMT -5
Weaver, they were real...the question is whether they were big hits - the Hot 100 isn't magic Like I, and others, have stated, AS NAUSEUM, if a song doesn't have enough of a following, no amount of promotion/download repression/discount single stuff is going to make it be #1. Plently of artists/labels employ the technique, and do not make it to #1 on the Hot 100. I feel like we've already been over this too Repressing downloads doesn't GUARANTEE Mariah a #1...the question is whether it HELPED her get more #1s, and IMO why her label would repress downloads for so long BTW no such expression as "AS NAUSEUM" - it's got a "D" in it ;)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2009 22:46:25 GMT -5
It comes down to this - People still gotta buy it
If enough people do it in one week, it will be #1, if not it won't
There just isn't enough evidence out there (in my opinion) to support the notion that popularity of a song is manufactured like this.
Artists are popular and land #1 hits because they strike a chord with the public and there is enough interest in the music for people to download. "Repression of downloads" is independent.
People still gotta buy it
|
|
seanblain
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2005
Posts: 2,045
|
Post by seanblain on Jun 7, 2009 22:56:47 GMT -5
DFAU went to #3 based on airplay alone, so that would have went #1 regardless, and TMB was a big, big airplay hit as well. Those are the only two songs that I remember Mariah repressing on iTunes. And again, repressing doesn't always work either. Mariah isn't doing anything wrong. ROFLMAO!!!! You do know who wrote that right?
|
|
The Northern Star⭐
6x Platinum Member
I'll follow you from here like you're the Northern Star....
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 6,653
|
Post by The Northern Star⭐ on Jun 7, 2009 23:48:53 GMT -5
to answer the question. No.
|
|
|
Post by Taste It On My Tongue on Jun 8, 2009 0:24:29 GMT -5
I'd have to agree, even though "Take a Bow" was repressed, it probably would've hit #1 at some point later in it's chart life due to how much of a massive cross over urban hit it became. "Disturbia" was a #1 hit too and that song was not repressed.
I think people call out Mariah more because a lot of her #1 hits were weak airplay hits. Rihanna's #1s were all huge radio hits, whereas only some of the later Mariah singles were. Yes, "We Belong Together" and "Don't Forget About Us" were Rihanna sized hits, WBT being the biggest radio hit of the decade, but i'd have to agree that "Touch my Body" "Honey" "My All" "Heartbreaker" and "Thank God I Found You" were not even close to deserving #1 status..
|
|
Glove Slap
Administrator
Sweetheart
Downloading ༺༒༻ Possibilities
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 29,483
Staff
|
Post by Glove Slap on Jun 8, 2009 2:42:06 GMT -5
Touch My Body reached #2 on Hot 100 Airplay, so it was a radio hit. Honey hit #11 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart, before Urban airplay was counted. My All got to #15. Heartbreaker hit #8. TGIFY got to around #15 as well.
Songs with lower airplay peaks peaked at #1 in those days due to sales (Usher's Nice & Slow hit #1 when it wasn't top 20 on the Hot 100 Airplay Chart (Again, this was before Urban airplay was counted).
Those songs reaching #1 wasn't anything out of the ordinary. If it was an unknown artist or someone who went on to mostly moderate success afterwards, most people wouldn't care.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2009 5:36:41 GMT -5
I'd have to agree, even though "Take a Bow" was repressed, it probably would've hit #1 at some point later in it's chart life due to how much of a massive cross over urban hit it became. "Disturbia" was a #1 hit too and that song was not repressed. I think people call out Mariah more because a lot of her #1 hits were weak airplay hits. Rihanna's #1s were all huge radio hits, whereas only some of the later Mariah singles were. Yes, "We Belong Together" and "Don't Forget About Us" were Rihanna sized hits, WBT being the biggest radio hit of the decade, but i'd have to agree that "Touch my Body" "Honey" "My All" "Heartbreaker" and "Thank God I Found You" were not even close to deserving #1 status.. On R&B: 01 Heartbreaker 01 TGIFY 02 Honey (also #10 on Pop) 04 My All Most of Rihanna's single didn't even reach the top 10 on R&B.
|
|
Glove Slap
Administrator
Sweetheart
Downloading ༺༒༻ Possibilities
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 29,483
Staff
|
Post by Glove Slap on Jun 8, 2009 5:57:57 GMT -5
Actually, Take A Bow hit #1 on R&B and Umbrella went to #4.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2009 6:08:26 GMT -5
Actually, Take A Bow hit #1 on R&B and Umbrella went to #4. Live Your Life was top 5 too, I know, thats why I wonder if youhad even read my post...
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 8, 2009 17:31:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure where that's coming from. You are correct, it isn't "magic." That's why, regardless of how the song amasses enough chart points to hit #1, it's a big deal. It's a big deal for THAT WEEK...the question is whether some of her songs are rising to #1 on the wave of repressed downloading, and then having condensed chart runs so that she goes straight to #1 but spends fewer weeks on the chart than most songs that peak at say #5 (kinda feel like we've gone over this...) Chart trajectories change every time Billboard changes its methodology. I fail to see how that in any way correlates with "cheating" the chart. In the mid 90s, songs were entering at the top. One after the other. Because, singles needed the physical single to appear on the Hot 100. It was another form of repression, and it's a marketing strategy. In the late 80s, songs went up and down the chart much more quickly than now, but I believe that was more due to radio airplay trends than chart methodology. There was a quicker turnover. All in all, I think it's safe to say that Mariah has not "pulled one over" on the Hot 100, nor has any other artist or label.
|
|
weaver
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 4,095
|
Post by weaver on Jun 8, 2009 17:32:43 GMT -5
Like I, and others, have stated, AS NAUSEUM, if a song doesn't have enough of a following, no amount of promotion/download repression/discount single stuff is going to make it be #1. Plently of artists/labels employ the technique, and do not make it to #1 on the Hot 100. I feel like we've already been over this too Repressing downloads doesn't GUARANTEE Mariah a #1...the question is whether it HELPED her get more #1s, and IMO why her label would repress downloads for so long BTW no such expression as "AS NAUSEUM" - it's got a "D" in it ;) I know it's "AD" it's a typo. And of course the repressed downloads help a song surge on the chart. That's why labels do it DUH. M A R K E T I N G.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Jun 8, 2009 19:30:59 GMT -5
In the late 80s, songs went up and down the chart much more quickly than now, but I believe that was more due to radio airplay trends than chart methodology. There was a quicker turnover. Naw back then Billboard (are R&R) had to use Radio Station Playlists, which dropped songs way before they actually stopped playing them - chart runs lengthened the day Billboard started using BDS in '91, and the day R&R started monitoring stations in '94 Kinda feel like we've beat this Mariah thing to death...just want to explain that I meant repressed downloads/singles causes condensed chart runs for only those songs (most non-repressed songs have traditional chart runs, and did back in the 90s) But you were saying that in your opinion repressing downloads is just a normal part of marketing, so IMO that basically explains why we've been coming from two completely different angles
|
|