Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2009 19:15:56 GMT -5
Okay my new answer to this thread...
Every label has equal opportunities to do whatever they want to promote their releases, so it's completely fair.
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TYRONE™
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Post by TYRONE™ on Jun 10, 2009 0:07:46 GMT -5
100% fair. Anyone can do it, so what's the problem?
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summers
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Post by summers on Jun 10, 2009 5:03:18 GMT -5
It's just a marketing strategy, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
Black Summer, those were great posts that you did in the last page!
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worldwide
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Post by worldwide on Jun 10, 2009 5:19:55 GMT -5
what's the problem? I don't see why it would be unfair.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Jun 10, 2009 5:32:07 GMT -5
Of course it's "fair". I'm not sure why people are trying to inject morality and political correctness into the charts. It's called the music "business" for a reason; it's a competition and you have to do what you have to do.
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Alex
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Post by Alex on Jun 10, 2009 7:35:09 GMT -5
the only reason people hate on mariah's #1 streak is because she is so close to beating the PRECIOUS beatles 20 #1 singles record. with 2 more #1 songs, she will be tied. and with 3, blow them out the park.
another reason is because she's black. some people HATE to see black people succeed, especially a beautiful black woman. can't wait till mimi REPRESSES "obsessed" and don't release it until September to get that #1! LOL
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 10, 2009 8:53:43 GMT -5
Okay my new answer to this thread... Every label has equal opportunities to do whatever they want to promote their releases, so it's completely fair. Agreed...makes complete sense IMO
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 10, 2009 10:01:26 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with it. There's no unfair advantage. Labels can use the strategy with whatever artist they want to/think it will work well with. An artist with a loyal established fan base helps. Like with anything else, no guarantees.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jun 10, 2009 10:30:27 GMT -5
the only reason people hate on mariah's #1 streak is because she is so close to beating the PRECIOUS beatles 20 #1 singles record. with 2 more #1 songs, she will be tied. and with 3, blow them out the park.Is that a new hybrid of the sayings "hit it out of the park" and "blow it out of the water?" Anyway, taking 19+ years to get 20 #1 singles is not "blowing" an act that only took 7 years to get 20 #1 hits "out of the park." Especially when that act still outsold Mariah this decade despite breaking up almost 30 years before the decade started.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jun 10, 2009 10:31:40 GMT -5
100% fair. Anyone can do it, so what's the problem?
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Jun 10, 2009 15:27:42 GMT -5
Didn't "Umbrella" "Hate That I Love You" "Don't Stop the Music" "Take a Bow" and "Disturbia" all go top ten on CHR/Rhythmic? Umbrella: #3 Hate That I Love You: #9 Don't Stop The Music: #6 Take A Bow: #7 Disturbia: #8 For the record, here are Mariah's "repressed flops" Rhythmic peaks. Honey: #1 (3 weeks) My All: #8 Heartbreaker: #3 Thank God I Found You: #9 ...and two that have no business even being thrown in that category but were anyway: Don't Forget About Us: #2 Touch My Body: #3 ...and the R&B Airplay peaks of all of the above: Honey: #4 My All: #16 Heartbreaker: #9 Thank God I Found You: #10 Don't Forget About Us: #1 (1 week) Touch My Body: #2 "Don't Forget About Us" spent 5 weeks at #1 in Hot 100 Airplay. I don't know where people are getting this "undeserved" talk from, especially with that one. My question is, what qualifies a single as being "repressed"? Does the song have to hit stores or iTunes before it hits radio? Because otherwise, anything else would qualify as being "repressed" under any objective lens. By that definition, the majority of Hot 100 #1's are "repressed". If holding back the CD singles is the only reason the songs went to #1, how come "My All" and "Thank God I Found You" did not go to #1 on the Hot 100 the week the single was released? "Honey" was a legitimate hit. It went Top 10 CHR/Pop, #4 R&B Airplay, and #1 Rhythmic. It sold enough to go Platinum, and spent 3 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100. That's not some flash in the pan #1. "My All" was a Top 20 R&B Airplay, Adult Contemporary, and CHR/Pop hit. It was also a Top 10 Rhythmic hit. The single also featured "Breakdown" which was a Top 10 Urban radio hit. I'm sure someone will call that "cheating," but then let's make sure we also accuse artists like Madonna, 2Pac, and Toni Braxton of cheating as well for including other hits on their singles just to make it fair. "Heartbreaker" was another legitimate hit. It may not have even gone Top 20 CHR/Pop, but it went Top 10 R&B Airplay and to #3 Rhythmic. The debut sales week for that single was one of the biggest of all time back in 1999 when it was released. Sony quickly discontinued the single which lead to a quick decline in sales points, but Billboard's Chart Beat noted that the week it fell out of #1 and got replaced by Santana's "Smooth" was one of the closest chart weeks ever. If it had not been discontinued, it very likely would have spent a third week at #1. Again, not a flash in the pan. "Thank God I Found You" was another Top 10 hit at both Urban and Rhythmic. Like I said with that one, it didn't even hit #1 the week the single was released. It hit #1 later. So any talk of "repression" getting her that 1 week at #1 with this one is simply uninformed. Any talk of "Don't Forget About Us" or "Touch My Body" not "deserving" #1 are so ridiculous, I'm not even going to explain those. Where is all the talk of Eminem "pulling one over" on the Hot 100 with "Crack A Bottle"? That song has a worse Hot 100 Airplay peak than anything Mariah's ever taken to #1. Did artists like Sisqo and Usher "pull one over" on the Hot 100 because they took songs to #1 that had minimal CHR/Pop airplay with "Incomplete" and "Nice N Slow"? This thread is filled with misinformation. It seems like people will do anything they can to discredit her Hot 100 #1's. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if she didn't have so many #1's, almost all of which were major airplay hits. People need to understand, having the most Hot 100 #1's does not mean you have the greatest songs of all time. It does not mean you have the most popular songs of all time. It does not mean you have the most memorable songs of all time. If you went out on the street, I doubt people could name you all 17 of Elvis' #1's or all 20 of The Beatles' #1's, something people accuse people of not being able to do for Mariah. It simply means, by Billboard's chart criteria, for a particular week or however many weeks a song is #1, that song has the highest point total. End of discussion. Any talk about some of her #1's not maintaining longevity and therefore not being deserving of taking the top spot is ridiculous because I could literally name off hundreds of Hot 100 #1's that have not stood the test of time at radio. Wow, you said it all. Amazing post. Thank you for that.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Jun 10, 2009 15:55:43 GMT -5
the only reason people hate on mariah's #1 streak is because she is so close to beating the PRECIOUS beatles 20 #1 singles record. with 2 more #1 songs, she will be tied. and with 3, blow them out the park.Is that a new hybrid of the sayings "hit it out of the park" and "blow it out of the water?" Anyway, taking 19+ years to get 20 #1 singles is not "blowing" an act that only took 7 years to get 20 #1 hits "out of the park." Especially when that act still outsold Mariah this decade despite breaking up almost 30 years before the decade started. Back then, it was a complete different story. Not to mentioned they release like TWO albums per year! And singles every other day!
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 11, 2009 7:12:43 GMT -5
Please, nobody is saying Mariah is as good as the Beatles, it's just the #1 stat. The Beatles would probably have 35 #1s or something if Yoko Ono hadn't broken them up. It's apples and oranges- the only comparable thing there is the chart stat.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Jun 11, 2009 9:06:20 GMT -5
Please, nobody is saying Mariah is as good as the Beatles, it's just the #1 stat. The Beatles would probably have 35 #1s or something if Yoko Ono hadn't broken them up. It's apples and oranges- the only comparable thing there is the chart stat. I am. IN MY OPINION, I think Mariah is better than the Beatles, there I said it. OK so the lyrics to their songs are deep and important and blah blah blah...I'm sorry but I heard alot of their singles and I just find it boring. But ofcourse this is just my opinion.
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 11, 2009 9:58:26 GMT -5
lol. Mariah doesn't even want to be compared to Elvis or the Beatles, she's said as much. It's just a chart stat. It doesn't mean her whole career trumps theirs or anything. I think Mariah herself would freely admit that. Of course, it's your opinion, so it is what it is.
You're really putting your neck out there saying Mariah's better than the Beatles though, lol. I guess it really depends on what you are looking at. She's a better singer than them, and Elvis, to be sure. But, in a grand scheme kinda way, like I said, it's not even who is better/worse, it's like comparing not even apples and oranges, but blueberries and watermelons for heaven's sake.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Jun 11, 2009 10:16:52 GMT -5
lol. Mariah doesn't even want to be compared to Elvis or the Beatles, she's said as much. It's just a chart stat. It doesn't mean her whole career trumps theirs or anything. I think Mariah herself would freely admit that. Of course, it's your opinion, so it is what it is. You're really putting your neck out there saying Mariah's better than the Beatles though, lol. I guess it really depends on what you are looking at. She's a better singer than them, and Elvis, to be sure. But, in a grand scheme kinda way, like I said, it's not even who is better/worse, it's like comparing not even apples and oranges, but blueberries and watermelons for heaven's sake. I'm putting my neck out there and something else as well, I might end up like Lorena Bobbit's ex-husband but I will go to the end for Mariah! lol j/k But I'm still sticking to my guns about what I wrote earlier though, that just how I feel.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 11, 2009 12:01:02 GMT -5
Alright took my Hot 100 Book out (it's pretty old lol)...Beatles had 51 Top 40 hits, 34 Top 10s, and Elvis had 114 Top 40 hits, 38 Top 10s - so agree that the #1 thing is just a chart stat
In other words, IMO when people compare who's more popular than who, gotta use more than just #1s anyway
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 11, 2009 12:05:37 GMT -5
another reason is because she's black. some people HATE to see black people succeed, especially a beautiful black woman. Original article was actually comparing Mariah to Rihanna, and defending Rihanna (also thought Mariah was somethin like 1/4 black, 1/4 Hispanic, and 1/2 Irish)
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 12, 2009 7:36:36 GMT -5
Alright took my Hot 100 Book out (it's pretty old lol)...Beatles had 51 Top 40 hits, 34 Top 10s, and Elvis had 114 Top 40 hits, 38 Top 10s - so agree that the #1 thing is just a chart stat In other words, IMO when people compare who's more popular than who, gotta use more than just #1s anyway I don't think it's ever been stated that Mariah is "More popular" than either of them. It's always just been the sound bite about #1s. How many top 10s and top 40s etc has Mariah had? Give me a few minutes and I'll tell ya.... ;)
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 12, 2009 19:38:27 GMT -5
Oops I got distracted lol...was at work. Let's see....26 top ten hits, counting Endless Love and I Know What U Want. 32 top 40 hits, counting the Jadakiss collabo from 04. That isn't too shabby. I suppose I can list them all if anybody wants. It's easier to list the ones that missed top 40, lol. Every single from Glitter save Loverboy, every single from Charmbracelet, Say Something, Fly LIke a Bird (if that really counts as a single), Lovin U Long Time, I Stay in Love, My Love. She hit at least top 30 w/ every single until Glitter happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 20:35:32 GMT -5
Comparing the chart achievements of artists from today to chart achievements of artists in the 60's is like comparing apples and oranges. It's an entirely different market. They use entirely different tactics. The amount of material being released is drastically different. The Beatles' chart achievements were absolutely phenomenal, but for instance, they charted 30 songs in 1964! They released dozens upon dozens upon dozens of singles in just seven years. That magnitude of output will never happen again, unless the music industry drastically changes and reverts back to being largely singles oriented. Not that it's impossible, but to compare it to now where some very successful artists can only squeeze 3 or so singles into one year just shows how different the market is.
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weaver
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Post by weaver on Jun 12, 2009 21:07:16 GMT -5
Comparing the chart achievements of artists from today to chart achievements of artists in the 60's is like comparing apples and oranges. It's an entirely different market. They use entirely different tactics. The amount of material being released is drastically different. The Beatles' chart achievements were absolutely phenomenal, but for instance, they charted 30 songs in 1964! They released dozens upon dozens upon dozens of singles in just seven years. That magnitude of output will never happen again, unless the music industry drastically changes and reverts back to being largely singles oriented. Not that it's impossible, but to compare it to now where some very successful artists can only squeeze 3 or so singles into one year just shows how different the market is. I totally agree with you. It's silly, really, to compare Mariah w/ the Beatles and Elvis. I think I said as much earlier in this thread, or maybe it was another thread. I mean, even over the course of Mariah's career the Billboard Hot 100 has changed methodologies, what, like 5 times? I guess it's just the nature of chart stats. Those #1 stats are always going to be out there though. I mean, IDJ would be dumb not to remind everyone that Mariah's got 18 #1s. No active recording artist is even within striking distance.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 12, 2009 21:37:58 GMT -5
^Weaver you don't count as unbiased anymore (with that avatar)
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2009 22:06:03 GMT -5
the only reason people hate on mariah's #1 streak is because she is so close to beating the PRECIOUS beatles 20 #1 singles record. with 2 more #1 songs, she will be tied. and with 3, blow them out the park. another reason is because she's black. some people HATE to see black people succeed, especially a beautiful black woman. can't wait till mimi REPRESSES "obsessed" and don't release it until September to get that #1! LOL You have to realize that at least Touch My Body (I don't know about the others) only reached #1 because of digital downloads to people like you. Even Taylor Hicks' sorry butt did that. The Beatles did it the hard way, with airplay. Does she even write her own songs? And, honestly, people who listen to pop music know that about 50% of the successful artists nowadays are African-Americans. People still love Aretha, Whitney, and Tina Turner. So, I don't think race has as much to do with it as much as nostalgia.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2009 22:08:11 GMT -5
yeah that avatar is really ridiculous haha I don't even think Mariah loves herself that much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 22:14:54 GMT -5
the only reason people hate on mariah's #1 streak is because she is so close to beating the PRECIOUS beatles 20 #1 singles record. with 2 more #1 songs, she will be tied. and with 3, blow them out the park. another reason is because she's black. some people HATE to see black people succeed, especially a beautiful black woman. can't wait till mimi REPRESSES "obsessed" and don't release it until September to get that #1! LOL You have to realize that at least Touch My Body (I don't know about the others) only reached #1 because of digital downloads to people like you. Even Taylor Hicks' sorry butt did that. The Beatles did it the hard way, with airplay. Does she even write her own songs? And, honestly, people who listen to pop music know that about 50% of the successful artists nowadays are African-Americans. People still love Aretha, Whitney, and Tina Turner. So, I don't think race has as much to do with it as much as nostalgia. LOL. Yeah "Touch My Body" only hit #2 in Hot 100 Airplay. What a flop. She needed hardly any digital sales to get her to #1. ...and she's written basically every song in her catalog aside from her covers, but people will say she just sticks her name on her songs, so that's not even a point worth arguing with people determined to write her off.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 12, 2009 22:16:56 GMT -5
Alright took my Hot 100 Book out (it's pretty old lol)...Beatles had 51 Top 40 hits, 34 Top 10s, and Elvis had 114 Top 40 hits, 38 Top 10s - so agree that the #1 thing is just a chart stat In other words, IMO when people compare who's more popular than who, gotta use more than just #1s anyway I don't think it's ever been stated that Mariah is "More popular" than either of them. It's always just been the sound bite about #1s. How many top 10s and top 40s etc has Mariah had? Give me a few minutes and I'll tell ya.... ;) Yeah sorry - started to look up Mariah's stats but realized book was copyrighted in 1994 lol
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2009 22:40:20 GMT -5
You have to look at album sales too. There are many people that just buy the one new Mariah single, but don't shell out the money for the album.
Wow, Elvis really had 114 Top 40s? Sorry, Mariah, you can't top that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 22:41:33 GMT -5
You have to look at album sales too. There are many people that just buy the one new Mariah single, but don't shell out the money for the album. That must explain why despite her poor single sales in 2005, she had the biggest album of the year. That must also explain why she has three albums that have sold around ten million copies each in the US alone.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2009 22:52:38 GMT -5
Ok, well then have fun Mariah.
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