HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Sept 25, 2009 11:38:56 GMT -5
There's always going to be a few instances where an omission is questionable, and some have spoken out about the so-claled politics. Then there will be acts who are ot in or have not been considered, speaking negatively about it and using their success as an argument as to why they should be in- when in reality, they do not deserve to be in there. Overall, though, I think the acts in the HOF are deserving.
RE Janet- I don't know when it was, but Janet said that Rene in the past had not taken credit- I think she noted how he finally had his name out on Velvet Rope credits.
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Post by divalasvegas82 on Sept 25, 2009 11:53:42 GMT -5
I don't recall any act using commerical success as a reason why they should be in the HOF. But some have spoken out about how the panel chooses its inductees. I think about 70% of the people currently in the HOF are deserving. The other 30%, not so much  |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Sept 25, 2009 13:33:36 GMT -5
It may have been Kiss, actually, who said something like, "We have more gold records than any other act." :) That's great, but what has that got to do with anything, you know? (and I like Kiss) I think there may have been a couple others, too. I know at the Future Rock Legends site, there are some posters who go on and on about commercial success, and it's usually in regards to an act that isn't highly acclaimed or regarded as majorly important.
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Sept 25, 2009 13:59:59 GMT -5
Kiss is pretty gimmick-y, but I'm kinda rooting for them to get in....
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barbush
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Post by barbush on Sept 25, 2009 15:14:46 GMT -5
Which isn't even true, anyway!
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on Sept 25, 2009 15:28:29 GMT -5
Has the Eurythmics been inducted yet?
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Sept 25, 2009 16:32:56 GMT -5
Has the Eurythmics been inducted yet? No, but they've only been eligible a few years. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Sept 25, 2009 18:58:35 GMT -5
Kiss does have a heap of gold albums- that's what it may have been referring to, though I don't know if it's for groups or what the case is/was.
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Post by divalasvegas82 on Sept 26, 2009 7:50:13 GMT -5
Even though I feel KISS are totally deserving, I feel the HOF just gave them a nomination because the KISS fans keep protesting how much they should be in the HOF. They are the only act, after all, to have protestors show up at the HOF headquarters in Cleaveland.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Sept 27, 2009 15:09:46 GMT -5
It may have been Kiss, actually, who said something like, "We have more gold records than any other act." :) Gene Simmons said that when he was on MTV cribs, showing off his house. He said, "KISS is America's Gold record leader... If this sounds like an infomercial, it's not, it's fact."  I think the RIAA, Elvis, Barbra, and many others with more Gold records than them would beg to differ. |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 15, 2009 11:04:41 GMT -5
Inductees announced today.
ABBA - yes
Darlene Love - no
Donna Summer - no
Genesis - yes
Jimmy Cliff - yes
KISS - no
Laura Nyro - no
LL Cool J - no
Red Hot Chili Peppers - no
The Chantels - no
The Hollies - yes
The Stooges - yes
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 15, 2009 11:05:19 GMT -5
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 15, 2009 11:23:23 GMT -5
Surprised the Chilli Peppers didn't make it on their first year of eligibility. Boo at yet another Donna snub- but yay for ABBA. And, see- Madonna did The Stooges a favor by having Iggy and company perform last year. Genesis probably got in for its pre-Phil-Collins-on-lead work, I'd think. I'm sure Phil Collins won't be considered anytime soon for his solo output (though I do enjoy some of it). |
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Dec 15, 2009 12:08:02 GMT -5
In my perfect world, the rankings would end up like this, based on a combination of my objective view of the artists' merit and, to break ties, my subjective liking of them: 1. The Stooges 2. Jimmy Cliff 3. The Hollies, who have been overlooked far too long 4. Genesis, including the Gabriel-fronted incarnation 5. Donna Summer Well, hey, guess I can't complain too much about 4/5. |
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d.t.m
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Post by d.t.m on Dec 15, 2009 15:15:39 GMT -5
What the heck does Donna Summer have to do to get inducted? Abba over her? This is getting ridiculous.
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colson
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Post by colson on Dec 15, 2009 15:20:59 GMT -5
Why does Donna Summer deserve to be inducted in?
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Dec 15, 2009 15:34:46 GMT -5
What the heck does Donna Summer have to do to get inducted? Abba over her? This is getting ridiculous. ABBA definitely had a bigger impact than Donna Summer. She doesn't have one of the biggest plays of all time and a corresponding blockbuster film based on her music, for example. |
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Dec 15, 2009 15:35:54 GMT -5
Why does Donna Summer deserve to be inducted in? She was the biggest female act of the Disco era and had a hand in writing/producing a lot of her tracks, unlike most Disco acts. Her music ending up being very influential as well. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 15, 2009 15:45:10 GMT -5
^Of course. "I Feel Love" alone set the bar for so much to come after- it's often hailed as one of the most influential records ever.
I don't think the play and film adaptation necessarily means they had a bigger impact. I mena, plenty of acts haven't had that and they've had a lot more impact than ABBA. :)
BTW- I did a blog on Abba's induction, for anyone interested.
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sunpeach
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Post by sunpeach on Dec 15, 2009 16:04:36 GMT -5
donna summer definitely belongs there though she should take comfort in the fact the whole thing is a joke, anyway.
For many years, ABBA was the biggest selling group ever, even above the Beatles- I remember them being in Guiness or something- I don't know where they are in terms of sales now- the Beatles obviously surpassed them in the 90's or whatever.
ABBA is not rock-n-roll, Neither is Summer or Madonna and many of the rest- they need to change the name because including these people seems ridiculous to me.
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d.t.m
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Post by d.t.m on Dec 23, 2009 5:40:29 GMT -5
Why does Donna Summer deserve to be inducted in? 3 words: Bad Girls LP. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 23, 2009 9:18:38 GMT -5
For, what, the 543rd time... :) "Rock and Roll" is just an umbrella term for the HOF- people who look at the title too literally obviously aren't looking at all of the nominees through the years (which have come from genres outside rock). Changing the title to the "Music Hall of Fame" would take care of some of that pigeonhole thinking, though- but, is it as catchy?
Darlene Love was very vocal about how she thinks she should be in, and what has taken so long- she said Bruce Springsteen was going to do all he could to get her in. And Jon Bon Jovi apparently is on a mission to get Bon Jovi in. lol BJ's commercial success will not get the band in. Large commercial success alone isn't enough to get anyone in, which is why some big acts from the 90s and on likely will not be considered upon their eligibility. or anytime close to it.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Dec 31, 2009 23:01:16 GMT -5
If the Ronettes are in the Hall of Fame, Darlene Love should be in as well. Too bad she didn't get in this time. I was happy to see the songwriting teams of Barry Mann/Cynthia Weil and Jeff Barry/Ellie Greenwich get in. It was a long time coming for both of them, especially Mann/Weil.
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Legoman
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Post by Legoman on Jan 1, 2010 1:40:31 GMT -5
But you do have to make good music, and have that be thanks to you to a bigger than minimal degree. Well all love us some Whitney and the voice was undeniable. But the facts remain that 95% of her music catalog is MOR fluff and that she only co-wrote/co-produced a very small portion of it. Even many of her big hits were (obviously) covers. Her image was built as the girl next door and her music/performances always played it safe. No boundary pushing, no musical innovation, etc. It's just not a recipe for induction. And I guess lipsynching, dancing stiff and kissing other pop singers on stages are recipes for induction, huh? *chuckles seeing the sh.it trying at provocation.* |
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starr
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Post by starr on Jan 1, 2010 2:52:28 GMT -5
Oh so you're saying The Hall of Fame apparently treats McCartney's time with the Wings as part of his solo induction? That I don't understand. It basically refutes the whole purpose of having the individual works of an artists recognized. In respect to MJ, he's inducted as part of the Jackson 5 and as a solo artist. The Jacksons is a completely different band then the Jackson 5 which was formed after Jermaine decided to stay with Motown and was replaced with their youngest brother Randy. They signed to CBS Records before leaving and signing to Epic Records. The Hall of Fame isn't talking about any of that history. They recognize everything up until 1976. I agree. The Jacksons need to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. It's not the same group as the Jackson 5. The Jackson 5 had two lead singers (Michael and Jermaine). When the Jackson 5 moved to Epic/CBS Records from Motown Records they had to change their name to The Jacksons. (Note: CBS Records was sold to Sony Music Entertainment). The Jacksons music was mostly written and produced by the Jacksons whereas the Jackson 5 music was written and produced by the Corporation. Plus the Jacksons had a new member (Randy) in the group. And Jermaine (the co-lead singer and bass player of the Jackson 5) was no longer in the group and was a solo artist. Listen to Jackson 5's "I'll Be There" with Michael and Jermaine vocals. And listen to The Jacksons' "Can You Feel It" with Michael and Randy's vocals. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 1, 2010 10:51:40 GMT -5
Legalos, IB3 actually was describing a younger pop star who isn't even eligible for the Hall of Fame until 2023- who did nothing notable in her work like her mentor and whose music was nowhere near as a strong- which is why as of now, she unlikely would be considered for the HOF.
pdc makes some good points about what the Hall of Fame looks at in terms of considering, but if anyone was going to be considered among big-voiced "divas" to emerge since Whitney, it's Whitney herself, regardless of her lack of participation in the creative process of her songs. She set the template for female R&B with her debut.
RE The Jacksons- I don't think the HOF committee would look at them as a separate entity from The Jackson 5. Just as when looking at the hits history, they are grouped together. It's like when any group loses one member, gets another. It was just a name change; there was no formation of a new group.
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 2, 2010 9:59:50 GMT -5
For many years, ABBA was the biggest selling group ever, even above the Beatles- LOL. No. |
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colson
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Post by colson on Jan 2, 2010 11:31:47 GMT -5
Legalos, IB3 actually was describing a younger pop star who isn't even eligible for the Hall of Fame until 2023- who did nothing notable in her work like her mentor and whose music was nowhere near as a strong- which is why as of now, she unlikely would be considered for the HOF. pdc makes some good points about what the Hall of Fame looks at in terms of considering, but if anyone was going to be considered among big-voiced "divas" to emerge since Whitney, it's Whitney herself, regardless of her lack of participation in the creative process of her songs. She set the template for female R&B POP with her debut. RE The Jacksons- I don't think the HOF committee would look at them as a separate entity from The Jackson 5. Just as when looking at the hits history, they are grouped together. It's like when any group loses one member, gets another. It was just a name change; there was no formation of a new group. Ppl like Patti Labelle should've been considered for the HOF. Now that's a 'big-voiced' diva who IS a R&B singer. You rarely hear ppl talk about her for consideration although she's well respected and a pioneer of sorts. She's definitely well-respected and considered a legend by many. Whitney didn't land on the music scene as a 'R&B' singer, so I'm not sure where that came from. She's a pop singer that turned R&B in the mid 90s, but she's more well known for her pop hits and not as a R&B singer, so she didn't set any templates in 'R&B' genre. Female R&B singers in the 80s were ppl like Patti Labelle, Anita Baker, Stephanie Mills, Teena Marie, Regina Belle, and Shirley Murdock just to name a few. None of those women have been mentioned. Then again, I forget some posters in here are too stuck in the 'pop world', that they just only see 'some' pop singers as R&B singers. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 2, 2010 15:22:23 GMT -5
Well, I did say to emerge *since* Whitney. And perhaps better phrasing would be that she set the template for pop/R&B (as Madge set it for pop in general- really, their debut albums set the mold for a lot of albums thatcame thereafter, and you can even trace albums released within the last decade and change back to those).
I think Patti LaBelle is a legend, but just because someone may be considered a legend doesn't mean they'll be inducted (or even considered) for the HOF. Barry Manilow is a legend to many, but he's never even been considered. Patti has been eligible since 1987 (I guess people regard her Blue Belles work as solo, to separate her from LaBelle, which has been eligible since 1996).
If we're talking about "divas" who set the bar for R&B/hip hop in the last 15 years, it's undisputedly Mary J. Blige, I would think. "Queen of Hip-Hop/Soul" for a reason, after all.
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on Jan 2, 2010 17:29:39 GMT -5
I agree with you, HolidayGuy. And wasn't Whitney the first Pop artist to really crossover successfully to R&B and was consistent in that particular genre? Of course, Mariah Carey would soon follow, but it was Whitney who did it before or at least be noted for it. All other examples may be R&B artists who crossed over to Pop successfully, and that's a different ballpark. Therefore, she did set a template in R&B.
Eventually, singers like Patti and Anita will be inducted. How many R&B artists have been inducted? Does anyone know?
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