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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 10, 2012 11:00:48 GMT -5
Touring is the main source of revenue for most artists. Relatively speaking, you don't make much from CDs Yeah but in relation to how much you can get back. Labels won't put money into an album that is unlikely to generate a return in terms of sales or hits. An album by a bigger name is also more likely to sell on name alone which is why some bigger acts might pass on doing some types of promo.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 11:02:53 GMT -5
I have to laugh at people bringing up Beyonce and Rihanna as artists that are flopping. Um, Beyonce bombed all over the place last year, i think it's amazing she's sold even a million. I bet her incessant promo is the only she reason she's sold anything.
And we all know Rihanna can't sell an album to save her life. It's been that way since day one.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 10, 2012 11:03:03 GMT -5
She did a lot more promo (in terms of talk shows, performances, etc.) outside the USA for the Confessions... album. She's only done scattered U.S. performances (outside of touring) with her albums, which has led to those appearances being events in and of themselves. However, she's at the point now that her name alone isn't going to sell her albums in the long run. And since she can't rely on a lot of radio play, choosing some good outlets to appear on and perform wouldn't be such a bad idea. But, she dove right into tour rehearsals, so there went that.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 10, 2012 11:07:34 GMT -5
To say that she didn't promote her album AT ALL its ridiculous. The superbowl was a huge promo, not only the actual event itself but also the dozens upon dozens of articles and footage of media attention it got before AND after the half time show. They made her album available for pre-order to capitalize on the huge event. She's done 2 music videos already, which I don't know if you know, but that's promotion. She appeared in Ultra Music Festival, an event that that's hugely popular with over 100,000 people that attended and most importantly, people that love the kind of music she has on her CD. Also, there's the Smirnoff ad, that promotes her album, it's been airing non stop since her album release. Her perfume ad, that displays her music. Her concert ticket/promo convo thingy its also promotion, a huge one, as we know by now. Just cause she's not doing talk shows and things of that sort doesn't mean the album is not being promoted. There are countless artists who have done countless talk shows and still can't sell albums. It comes down to the music, either people love or they dont. Not to mention the print ads, including posters billboards and magazine ads plus internet ads. Heck, there is a ad for album that shows up on Pulse every now and then. Every international city i've been in over the past two months have been plastered with MDNA posters and billboards. Talk shows and personal appearances are not the only form of promotion and there are a lot of artists who promote like hell but can barely move albums. I'm talking about the Katy Perry's and Rihanna's of the world. The biggest pops stars of current do all the promo in the world yet they barely see the big impact. Beyonce was completely overexposed the last time and yet she's barely doing platinum. Promo is just one of the factors that contribute to an album's success but in Madonna's case, it sure wasn't the lack of it that is leading to the fizzle. People just aren't that interested in her latest and its obviously on the singles side as well, in both airplay and sales. There's also more than one way to measure success other than album sales. Be careful to not leave out singles too.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 10, 2012 11:10:43 GMT -5
To say that she didn't promote her album AT ALL its ridiculous. The superbowl was a huge promo, not only the actual event itself but also the dozens upon dozens of articles and footage of media attention it got before AND after the half time show. They made her album available for pre-order to capitalize on the huge event. She's done 2 music videos already, which I don't know if you know, but that's promotion. She appeared in Ultra Music Festival, an event that that's hugely popular with over 100,000 people that attended and most importantly, people that love the kind of music she has on her CD. Also, there's the Smirnoff ad, that promotes her album, it's been airing non stop since her album release. Her perfume ad, that displays her music. Her concert ticket/promo convo thingy its also promotion, a huge one, as we know by now. Just cause she's not doing talk shows and things of that sort doesn't mean the album is not being promoted. There are countless artists who have done countless talk shows and still can't sell albums. It comes down to the music, either people love or they dont. Lol wut I mean do you really think all of that PROMOTION she has done equates to performing on American Idol, going on Ellen or Oprah, getting a GMA special or doing a bunch of magazine covers the way every othe megastar does? Let's get real here. What MDNA has had is good marketing - but most albums do. Yes the Super Bowl was great promotion, but I repeat- it was 2 months ago. She got massive pre orders for 3 days. Great. What came next to sustain that hype? Nothing. 2 singles that no one has heard, 2 great videos that would be great "promotion" if radio actually played the songs enough for people to seek out the video the way they would seek it out on iTunes (everyone and their mother makes music videos, since when has that been promotion? Are we just being pedantic for the sake of it now?) Smirnoff commercials that name drop MDNA - woo! Explain to me how that would motivate someone to buy an album by Madonna moreso than a hit single would. Good luck with that one. And don't even get me started on the ULTRA MUSIC FESTIVAL. Is that a joke? Showing up at a music festival to introduce a DJ who subsequently plays a barely recognizable version of your latest single for 2 minutes is promotion now? Gee I better let Bono know about this incredible opportunity - the Ultra Music Festival is THE spot to be if you wanna promote your album. No performing or anything, just introduce a DJ. You don't even need to let people know it's a remix of your song he's playing! Almost as good as a perfume or beer commercial. the only thing that has worked this era has been the Super Bowl and her ticket promotion which most of this forum dismissed as bulls**t anyway. You can spin spin spin all you want- nothing compares to getting out there and promoting your music with your own self as the promotional tool. Lionel Richie is the perfect example and that's why he's doing so well. This guy was pretty much a hasbeen before now. Madonna doesnt promote anymore for god knows what reason, but it hasn't done her any favors commercially. Going on the road with her music is her passion now. But if this forum thinks that her 2nd week sales are such a SURPRISE, after everything I went over, then whatever, clearly you're not willing to cut Madonna the same slack you would for one of the other beloved mega stars on this board if they "promoted" their music the same way. What can you do? They're not traditional but they sure aren't useless methods of promotion. Sometimes all an act needs is a name drop for someone to think about them. I think at this point, Madonna's people aren't looking to win people over because everyone knows who she is and they already either like her or dislike her. It's a waste of time and money and effort to do otherwise. At this point they want to remind people that she's still around. Those methods work.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Apr 10, 2012 11:12:59 GMT -5
To say that she didn't promote her album AT ALL its ridiculous. The superbowl was a huge promo, not only the actual event itself but also the dozens upon dozens of articles and footage of media attention it got before AND after the half time show. They made her album available for pre-order to capitalize on the huge event. She's done 2 music videos already, which I don't know if you know, but that's promotion. She appeared in Ultra Music Festival, an event that that's hugely popular with over 100,000 people that attended and most importantly, people that love the kind of music she has on her CD. Also, there's the Smirnoff ad, that promotes her album, it's been airing non stop since her album release. Her perfume ad, that displays her music. Her concert ticket/promo convo thingy its also promotion, a huge one, as we know by now. Just cause she's not doing talk shows and things of that sort doesn't mean the album is not being promoted. There are countless artists who have done countless talk shows and still can't sell albums. It comes down to the music, either people love or they dont. Not to mention the print ads, including posters billboards and magazine ads plus internet ads. Heck, there is a ad for album that shows up on Pulse every now and then. Every international city i've been in over the past two months have been plastered with MDNA posters and billboards. Talk shows and personal appearances are not the only form of promotion and there are a lot of artists who promote like hell but can barely move albums. I'm talking about the Katy Perry's and Rihanna's of the world. The biggest pops stars of current do all the promo in the world yet they barely see the big impact. Beyonce was completely overexposed the last time and yet she's barely doing platinum. Promo is just one of the factors that contribute to an album's success but in Madonna's case, it sure wasn't the lack of it that is leading to the fizzle. People just aren't that interested in her latest and its obviously on the singles side as well, in both airplay and sales. see, this is what i have a problem with. You are basically saying that since the album isn't selling, it isn't a good album. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's one of her best albums of all time, and certainly one of the best of the year so far, without a doubt.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 10, 2012 11:13:33 GMT -5
closeyoureyes- GMAYL fared a bit better than "American Life, so it has some competition as the worst thing that can happen to a Madonna album. And that single charted in a far less competitive era (even a CD single couldn't boost it past No. 37 on the Hot 100). I agree, that M's camp probably does just want to remind people that she is around, not going anywhere, etc. They got the splashy first-week numbers and now it's on to the tour.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 11:26:58 GMT -5
And we all know Rihanna can't sell an album to save her life. It's been that way since day one. That's probably why she's sold the most albums worldwide since her debut. ;)
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Apr 10, 2012 11:29:37 GMT -5
Not to mention the print ads, including posters billboards and magazine ads plus internet ads. Heck, there is a ad for album that shows up on Pulse every now and then. Every international city i've been in over the past two months have been plastered with MDNA posters and billboards. Talk shows and personal appearances are not the only form of promotion and there are a lot of artists who promote like hell but can barely move albums. I'm talking about the Katy Perry's and Rihanna's of the world. The biggest pops stars of current do all the promo in the world yet they barely see the big impact. Beyonce was completely overexposed the last time and yet she's barely doing platinum. Promo is just one of the factors that contribute to an album's success but in Madonna's case, it sure wasn't the lack of it that is leading to the fizzle. People just aren't that interested in her latest and its obviously on the singles side as well, in both airplay and sales. see, this is what i have a problem with. You are basically saying that since the album isn't selling, it isn't a good album. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's one of her best albums of all time, and certainly one of the best of the year so far, without a doubt. Yah, let's try not to put words in my mouth, okay? There is nothing in the paragraph that talks to the "quality" of MDNA. Very rarely do I get involved in obtuse and subjective arguments like the quality of music and certainly will never do with Madonna since I haven't truly listened to her entire category. We are talking about quantitive aspect of sales and the argument I broached was that people simply weren't interested in her latest, hence the downward trajectory. That has very little to do with whether MDNA is considered by fans to be some of her best work.
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Post by gracelessheart on Apr 10, 2012 11:31:43 GMT -5
I'm sure this is all relevant but the MDNA debate is getting to be a bit tiring...
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Apr 10, 2012 11:33:21 GMT -5
I'm sure this is all relevant but the MDNA debate is getting to be a bit tiring... I might be pointing the obvious, but how about avoiding the thread for the next week of so? That way you do have to feel so tired!
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 11:38:38 GMT -5
Lol wut I mean do you really think all of that PROMOTION she has done equates to performing on American Idol, going on Ellen or Oprah, getting a GMA special or doing a bunch of magazine covers the way every othe megastar does? Let's get real here. What MDNA has had is good marketing - but most albums do. Yes the Super Bowl was great promotion, but I repeat- it was 2 months ago. She got massive pre orders for 3 days. Great. What came next to sustain that hype? Nothing. 2 singles that no one has heard, 2 great videos that would be great "promotion" if radio actually played the songs enough for people to seek out the video the way they would seek it out on iTunes (everyone and their mother makes music videos, since when has that been promotion? Are we just being pedantic for the sake of it now?) Smirnoff commercials that name drop MDNA - woo! Explain to me how that would motivate someone to buy an album by Madonna moreso than a hit single would. Good luck with that one. And don't even get me started on the ULTRA MUSIC FESTIVAL. Is that a joke? Showing up at a music festival to introduce a DJ who subsequently plays a barely recognizable version of your latest single for 2 minutes is promotion now? Gee I better let Bono know about this incredible opportunity - the Ultra Music Festival is THE spot to be if you wanna promote your album. No performing or anything, just introduce a DJ. You don't even need to let people know it's a remix of your song he's playing! Almost as good as a perfume or beer commercial. the only thing that has worked this era has been the Super Bowl and her ticket promotion which most of this forum dismissed as bulls**t anyway. You can spin spin spin all you want- nothing compares to getting out there and promoting your music with your own self as the promotional tool. Lionel Richie is the perfect example and that's why he's doing so well. This guy was pretty much a hasbeen before now. Madonna doesnt promote anymore for god knows what reason, but it hasn't done her any favors commercially. Going on the road with her music is her passion now. But if this forum thinks that her 2nd week sales are such a SURPRISE, after everything I went over, then whatever, clearly you're not willing to cut Madonna the same slack you would for one of the other beloved mega stars on this board if they "promoted" their music the same way. What can you do? They're not traditional but they sure aren't useless methods of promotion. Sometimes all an act needs is a name drop for someone to think about them. I think at this point, Madonna's people aren't looking to win people over because everyone knows who she is and they already either like her or dislike her. It's a waste of time and money and effort to do otherwise. At this point they want to remind people that she's still around. Those methods work. You're right, they're not useless. They're just not enough. Madonna has to make up for one or the other. If her single bombs, cushioning the album with a solid tv circuit could offset the bomb. If she isn't gonna promote, she better have a great song out there that people love. Neither happened this time. 4 Minutes underscores my point- it was a hit, but it didn't sell the album at all- the people that 4 Minutes appealed to weren't interested in buying a Madonna album, and hardcore fans weren't as interested in a Madonna album that was promoted with a song like 4 Minutes. The victory of that song was an empty one. Madonna was barely noticeable on it. For Madonna to sell albums, she needs a song that will make hardcore fans happy and also appeal to everyone else - but only on her merits, the way Hung Up and Music were. GMAYL killed MDNA, mostly for just not being a strong single (even tho I enjoy it). Which is unfortunate because the album has a LOT of potential.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Apr 10, 2012 11:44:57 GMT -5
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 11:48:56 GMT -5
And we all know Rihanna can't sell an album to save her life. It's been that way since day one. That's probably why she's sold the most albums worldwide since her debut. ;) This is a US-based chart forum right? My point was moreso that the quantity (emphasis on that) of hits Rihanna has had makes her US album sales seem a little soft. You'd think shed have a lot more album sales, but she doesnt seem to sell albums. She sure can sell singles though.
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Apr 10, 2012 11:59:09 GMT -5
^But she's consistent in the US with her sales, sans MOTS.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 12:17:50 GMT -5
Yeah true. I'm a big fan, despite some of her recent odd career choices with Chris Brown remixes and all that, so I'm not hating, I was just surprised she hasn't sold more albums than she has. She's had SO many hit songs it's crazy.
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Apr 10, 2012 12:31:37 GMT -5
Your point is a good point. She could've had another 2xP plaque in between albums.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 10, 2012 12:51:07 GMT -5
To say that she didn't promote her album AT ALL its ridiculous. The superbowl was a huge promo, not only the actual event itself but also the dozens upon dozens of articles and footage of media attention it got before AND after the half time show. They made her album available for pre-order to capitalize on the huge event. She's done 2 music videos already, which I don't know if you know, but that's promotion. She appeared in Ultra Music Festival, an event that that's hugely popular with over 100,000 people that attended and most importantly, people that love the kind of music she has on her CD. Also, there's the Smirnoff ad, that promotes her album, it's been airing non stop since her album release. Her perfume ad, that displays her music. Her concert ticket/promo convo thingy its also promotion, a huge one, as we know by now. Just cause she's not doing talk shows and things of that sort doesn't mean the album is not being promoted. There are countless artists who have done countless talk shows and still can't sell albums. It comes down to the music, either people love or they dont. Lol wut I mean do you really think all of that PROMOTION she has done equates to performing on American Idol, going on Ellen or Oprah, getting a GMA special or doing a bunch of magazine covers the way every othe megastar does? Let's get real here. Hmmm lets see...just one example out of so many: BIONIC by Xtina Promotion: American Idol, check! Oprah, check! The Today Show, check! MTV Movie Awards, check! Late Show with David Letterman, check! Live with Regis and Kelly, check! The Early Show, check! VH1 Storytellers, check! Total copies sold till date: about 300,000 It don't mean sh!t. The SuperBowl is the mother of all promtions, lets get real here. Just that alone is a huge avantage.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 10, 2012 12:53:50 GMT -5
Oh and yes, GMAYL bombed, no one cared for it- worst thing that can happen to a Madonna album. Had she had a hit single and sold this way I'd agree with you. So don't blame it on promo, blame on the material.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 12:56:11 GMT -5
Bionic flopped because her song BOMBED (are we seeing a pattern here, holmes?) and she hadn't made an album for like 4 years. Plus let's face it, no one cares about Xtina. lol
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 10, 2012 12:58:25 GMT -5
You are going back and forth, so now its not the type of promo, now the songs have to be hits too? oh ok.
Xtina had all the promo line up that according to you its necessary for an album to sell, but yet it didn't. Now you're saying its because of the song. So it didn't matter what promo MDNA got anyway cause either way it was gonna bombed.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 13:00:49 GMT -5
Linkinfan- I didn't just blame it on the promo though. From the very first post I cited her song tanking. So I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. I still think promotion works for veteran superstars like Madge if not for Rihanna or Katy Perry.
Disagree? Well that's you and I'm sorry.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 10, 2012 13:07:06 GMT -5
My issue was the fact the you said MDNA wasn't promoted "at all". Which wasn't true.
Promotion works for everybody, not just old or young...but if whats being promoted doesn't resonate with the listeners than it doesn't matter how much an artist go out there to promote. Lionel is selling because country and other fans alike like what they're hearing. Its really that simple.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 13:11:04 GMT -5
No you were saying that MDNA had all the promo it needed and I said it didn't. I also said that her song bombing killed the project.
What part of that do you have a problem with? I assure you that if Lionel adapted Madonna's promotional strategy he would have sold NOTHING. Are you really gonna argue that?
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Apr 10, 2012 13:13:31 GMT -5
My issue was the fact the you said MDNA wasn't promoted "at all". Which wasn't true. Promotion works for everybody, not just old or young...but if whats being promoted doesn't resonate with the listeners than it doesn't matter how much an artist go out there to promote. Lionel is selling because country and other fans alike like what they're hearing. Its really that simple. Let it go with this one. Logic won't work. I've been there.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 13:14:05 GMT -5
And don't bring up the Super Bowl, I ALREADY said it did wonders for Madonna. But only for 3 days!! how was she support to sell more albums if the special was for a mere 3 days?
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 10, 2012 13:14:28 GMT -5
Ok you know what, just closeyoureyes and go to sleep.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 10, 2012 13:15:40 GMT -5
Spooky21, butt out. Seriously.
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microcuts
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Post by microcuts on Apr 10, 2012 13:18:46 GMT -5
Bionic flopped because her song BOMBED (are we seeing a pattern here, holmes?) and she hadn't made an album for like 4 years. Plus let's face it, no one cares about Xtina. lol People cared for the brief amount of time that they thought it was her making all those viral videos under the iamamiwhoami moniker.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Apr 10, 2012 13:26:37 GMT -5
Hits use to be more fun in the past, with multiple updates. Now there seems to be just one, which is usually 50% and then boom, the rest at the end of the day.
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