Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Jan 23, 2013 2:18:32 GMT -5
This has been a hot topic of discussion in light of the media unfairly lingering on Beyonce's performance of the national anthem during the Presidential Inauguration the other day. This is a general topic and Beyonce is not the main artist being discussed here as this fascination and pre-occupation with this particular instance in the media and here was the catalyst for this. Let's try to keep this civil and respectful. Thanks.
There are many viewpoints on lip syncing.
Some have viewed lip syncing as something has to be done in certain instances like the acoustics for performing are bad, the proper equipment is unavailable, the weather conditions are bad for the artist's voice, it's a very important public performance that has to be perfect no matter what, or there's a really intense bit of choreography, etc.
Some view it as one of the worst things that an artist can do and insist on live performances 100% of the time.
And some think it's okay all the time if it will make sure the vocals sound pleasant during the performance.
And there are other viewpoints, so I ask, what do you think? Do you think it's okay sometimes? Never? Discuss.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jan 23, 2013 2:25:05 GMT -5
I'd rather listen to a good prerecording, flawlessly synced (Beyonce) than a live singer who is off (Christina, Katy, Taylor, Rihanna, etc etc).
But nothing is more impressive than a really great vocal sung live (Kelly), just like nothing is more disappointing than a very bad lip-sync (Britney)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 2:37:58 GMT -5
Very simple if you have shown you can sing live and you lip once in a blue moon I can live with that, if you have crazy mad dance routines going on then it's all good. The problem is those who have not shown they can sing and lip all the time and even worse those who can't dance and can't sing live.
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jan 23, 2013 2:58:05 GMT -5
Coco Jamboo said it best. There is really nothing more to add.
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REBIRTH
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Post by REBIRTH on Jan 23, 2013 7:22:17 GMT -5
I blame Ashlee Simpson for this debacle that started with her SNL mess. Everyone does it (good singers and bad 'singers') and has done it since there's pop music. I don't see the big deal about it.
My only problem with it is, someone like Britney Spears, whom I live for, cuz she's just lazy and doesn't even bother to sing a word live or pre-record her vocals. BeyoncΓ©, Mariah, J.Lo, Janet, etc. all the greats who take time to record a backing track and fool you along the way, I live for it. It only adds to their fabulousness.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Jan 23, 2013 9:05:30 GMT -5
I can understand why people do it in certain situations and I don't really care that Beyonce lipped. However, I find it utterly hilarious that she was so dramatic in her performance and it turned out to be so fake.
Ripping out the earpiece? Lulz!!!!
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Lockheart
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Post by Lockheart on Jan 23, 2013 9:43:52 GMT -5
I can honestly say, Beyonce does better lipsynch than Britney ever did
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 9:47:16 GMT -5
I think I'm one of the only ones who cares. If I go see someone in concert, I PAY to hear someone sing live. I don't pay to just be in the presence of the singer. I want to be entertained, and not by something that I could just pop into my CD player and listen to anyway. When people lip sync, I feel incredibly deceived and cheated. If someone hires you to do a gig, you better actually sing, not just show up and move your lips around.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 10:44:04 GMT -5
I think I'm one of the only ones who cares. If I go see someone in concert, I PAY to hear someone sing live. I don't pay to just be in the presence of the singer. I want to be entertained, and not by something that I could just pop into my CD player and listen to anyway. When people lip sync, I feel incredibly deceived and cheated. If someone hires you to do a gig, you better actually sing, not just show up and move your lips around. It depends for me though. I went to see Janet Jackson about 5 years ago knowing there's a lot of lip-syncing in her concerts. I didn't go to see Janet Jackson live because I wanted live vocals. I went to see her because of my love for her live act and her showmanship skills. I also had 4th row seats and loved being that close to someone I grew up loving. I didn't feel deceived or cheated. For me, BeyoncΓ© is an incredible live performer, and the vocals are only part of the act. I don't understand the point of going to see someone who just stands at a mic and lip-syncs, but if it's someone who has intense choreography and puts on an incredible live act, I don't really care if there's some lip-syncing.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 23, 2013 11:10:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I mostly agree with everyone. If they're putting on a physically demanding performance and have to lip sync or rely on a backing track, but what's happening on the stage is still compelling, then go for it. If you're at an enormous, pressure-packed event singing the National Anthem and you decide to play it safe, go for it (though I will have an inkling of disappointment, just because I love live singing, but I sure as shit wouldn't do any differently).
The only thing that can (but not always) bother me about lip syncing is the deceitfulness of it. And I don't know why, I can't and don't expect singers to offer up a disclaimer before they do it, because there's no need to cloak a performance like that, but if you're going to stand at a mic and give a great vocal, I just want it to be live. And to really pretend it's live just feels weird to me (e.g., I would care even less than I already do about Beyonce lipping at the inauguration if she hadn't pulled that ear piece out, as if to ensure people didn't question she was singing live--which worked, it was the exact reason I said she wasn't lipping).
But I also think exceptional singers are responsible for keeping their voices exceptional. No one could really have asked Celine Dion to sing live nearly 300 days out of the year for several years in a row and maintain that voice, and no one would want to go to a concert where an announcement was made prior to the show, "Ms. Dion will be lip syncing the following tracks today/everything." So I get that the mystery of it is important, as well, and sometimes these singers need to protect their voices over their immediate live singing reputation.
So I'm a bit of two minds about it, but by and large I just don't care. It will probably bother me deep down if and when Kelly Clarkson decides to lip sync for who knows why because she has built a career and reputation on never doing it, but that's more a personal stan thing than, like, a real thing.
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Post by Almost Honest on Jan 23, 2013 11:38:30 GMT -5
I can understand why good singers might need to lip-sync if they are sick or any of the other reasons mentioned above. Saying that I think the problem of lip-syncing and auto-tune needs to stop with some of these 'bad' singers who use it regularly because it's not fair to the truly talented artists who can sing.
I can remember being a kid watching Kelly Clarkson perform on a awards show back in 2003 or 04 and thinking her singing was bad compared to the other acts that had performed. It wasn't till recently that I went back and revisited that performance to realize that many of the other artists and acts of that show had been lip-syncing or using auto-tune. So main thing I take issue with it is that it gives a lot of youngsters the false hope of what you are supposed to sound like live and the credit actual talented singers should be getting for their live vocals is neglected because of it.
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Post by K. on Jan 23, 2013 11:54:35 GMT -5
I don't really care. Not lip syncing and sounding good is appealing and lends credibility. But if an artist who can't sing consistently well live nonetheless releases great music and puts on a fantastic show, and as part of that needs to promote live on television to a dubbed track, who cares? Often with lip syncers, the way they perform is more honest in terms of what you'll get in purchasing an album or buying a tour ticket than live singers.
An artist who really contributes nothing to her music -- who is basically just a robot being manipulated by producers, songwriters, and label executives and their computer software -- is not very respectable and shouldn't be called an "artist." But Beyonce obviously doesn't fall into that category. I don't know how much input Britney has artistically, but I would suspect that even she is not quite that bad.
Moreover, even good singers lip sync sometimes, especially in outdoor performances. The acoustics in stadiums and other outdoor venues (especially those built for things other than concerts) are awful. I've performed in stadiums before where I heard the echo of myself singing 3 seconds afterwards. Do you know how impossibly distracting that is? Especially when you are trying to sing a C and hearing a C# and different words over the speakers.
Oh, and sometimes artists lip sync so things like this don't happen...
All of that said, I think an important point about the Beyonce drama is that it came after all the effusive praise of her performance. I think many are treating it as an attack on Beyonce lip syncing in general, when really, it probably stems from somebody saying "I don't get the effusive praise over how good she sounded on this particular performance. She was lip syncing, so had plenty of time to perfect the performance in the studio."
That is absolutely a fair comment to make.
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rv1709
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Post by rv1709 on Jan 23, 2013 11:58:42 GMT -5
I think it's deceitful esp when one basks in all the glory (beyonce) knowing damn well that they didnt do it live. It makes me adore people like Kelly clarkson a lot more!
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Post by ChicaCherryμ½λΌ on Jan 23, 2013 12:13:08 GMT -5
I guess the reason I go to concerts is to HEAR the artist live, not see them dance so lip-syncing would be a huge deal for me. If I wanted a pre-recording then I'd go listen to their albums. I understand in certain situations it's needed, but seeing a live show can make or break my opinion of that artist and if they're lip-syncing, goodbye respect. I would feel unbelievably gipped if I went to one of my faves shows and found out it was a pre-recording. Seriously, I would completely lose all respect for them. Even with choreographed dancing, a lot of artists are still capable of singing, a backing track might be helping them out when they're out of breath and their mic is turned down a bit, but they're still singing and not depending on a pre-recording (at least from what I've seen). Most of my favorite artists are better live than recorded so that could be where my opinions come from.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Jan 23, 2013 12:22:59 GMT -5
I think it's deceitful esp when one basks in all the glory (beyonce) knowing damn well that they didnt do it live. Let's not go repainting history to fit an agenda.
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 23, 2013 12:40:12 GMT -5
As stated in the BeyoncΓ© thread, I think people have the right to feel a little duped. I mean, it is one thing to stand there and lip but it's another to stand there and dramatically pull your ear piece out as if you are really putting your heart into it. But honestly...this is BeyoncΓ© whose career is full of little deceiving incidents like this so this honestly doesn't come as any sort of surprise to me. Another thing I hate are the half ass excuses of "it was too cold" or "I was too nervous" or something. Save it.
I mean I could care less if she was lipping honestly, but the way she went about it is pretty off-putting.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 23, 2013 12:52:46 GMT -5
I think it's one thing when the lip syncing is done to an album recording or something that benefitted from being treated in the studio before it was "performed". But if the singer recorded the song in a more controlled environment and the only thing that is being played is the recording that wasn't mixed with effects and otherwise treated beyond what live mixers would have been able to do, then I think it's okay in some situations. Basically, if there is added auto-tune or other studio magic done to make it sound better than the singer is originally capable of, then it's deceitful. If Beyonce recorded it in one take because she was nervous or extremely emotional or concerned about the cold temperatures or whatever, and didn't add any additional treatment to it, then I don't think it's as big a problem.
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hidizzyguy
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Post by hidizzyguy on Jan 23, 2013 12:54:08 GMT -5
The situation is funny with Beyonce, because so many people were fooled. And they were only fooled cause THEY KNOW that is exactly what Beyonce sounds like. She could have given that performance live on any day - but for whatever reason, chose not to. That's why her credibility isn't going anywhere. And that's why credibility doesn't fall for any of our large voiced singers who choose to go that route.
It's even more acceptable to our singers that are also dancers.
What I don't appreciate are these auto-tuned, lip-syncing messes, that barely dance, that have absolutely no talent to offer us but catchy beats and modern production. Or when they do choose to sing live, I'd prefer them to be lipping. (Rihanna, Kesha, Katy, Britney, sometimes Gaga).
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mcsteamy
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Post by mcsteamy on Jan 23, 2013 13:03:54 GMT -5
If Pink can perform her video for Try and sing live, i don't think there's any excuse to lipsync.
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hidizzyguy
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Post by hidizzyguy on Jan 23, 2013 13:21:00 GMT -5
Um......
1) Maybe 25% of the time was she actually singing while moving 2) She had a strong backing track most of the time 3) The song isn't even that strong of a vocal 4) She sounded off anyway - I would have preferred the lip, and her focused on the choreography.
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Ballroom Blitzed
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Post by Ballroom Blitzed on Jan 23, 2013 13:27:02 GMT -5
I don't object to taped backing vocals, for one thing. Some bands incorporate a lot of vocal harmony into their music which can be almost impossible to adequately replicate on stage.
Of course, this strategy isn't without risks of its own. I recall reading an article which concerned an English rock band called Shy, cult favourites in the late-eighties, who used tape decks to supply some backing vocals during their live shows. However, at one performance at the Marquee Club in London, an audience member threw a Hobnob onto the stage, which landed on the keyboard stack and inadvertently started the backing vocals for a completely different song. While it is now recognised that this was fairly common practice in 1988, it injured Shy's credibility as a live act at the time.
I don't really have much of an opinion about artists lip-syncing the lead vocals for a song. I suppose it has to be judged on a case by case basis.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 13:27:44 GMT -5
Lipsyncing is never cool in my book.
Was it confirmed Beyonce' did that though?
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Mic Technique
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Post by Mic Technique on Jan 23, 2013 13:36:05 GMT -5
But honestly...this is BeyoncΓ© whose career is full of little deceiving incidents like this so this honestly doesn't come as any sort of surprise to me. Right on. I know good & well performances are routinely lip-synced at high-stakes live events so I couldn't care less about what had gone down at the Presidential Inauguration. But let's end the charade, so to speak: someone who is commonly associated with the practice of demanding songwriting credits is probably not above lip-syncing for their life. Repeating what I said yesterday, and you know as well as I do, this is common practice for Beyonce.
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mkarns
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Post by mkarns on Jan 23, 2013 14:11:15 GMT -5
It's OK in limited quantities, I guess. As long as they actually sang on their recordings (remember Milli Vanilli) and at least some of the songs are sung onstage I don't have a problem with some songs being lip-synced for the right reasons.
Such reasons might be having to do a lot of dancing that might leave the singer winded, multitracked lead/backing vocals that would be hard for even great singers to duplicate live, environmental reasons (weather, air quality, altitude), or illness when the only alternative would be either canceling the concert suddenly or seriously threatening the performer's future voice. Sometimes backing tracks might be needed in the case of sudden illness or other unforeseen problems during the show (remember the time when Justin Bieber heaved his dinner onstage while his singing voice still rang out over the speakers?)
But such reasons should be the exception, not the rule. Lip syncing should not be a crutch for someone without a passable voice (without being heavily doctored in the studio) to pretend to be a great singer and showman night after night.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Jan 23, 2013 14:30:15 GMT -5
As stated in the BeyoncΓ© thread, I think people have the right to feel a little duped. I mean, it is one thing to stand there and lip but it's another to stand there and dramatically pull your ear piece out as if you are really putting your heart into it. But honestly...this is BeyoncΓ© whose career is full of little deceiving incidents like this so this honestly doesn't come as any sort of surprise to me. Another thing I hate are the half ass excuses of "it was too cold" or "I was too nervous" or something. Save it. I mean I could care less if she was lipping honestly, but the way she went about it is pretty off-putting. I love Beyonce, I really do. But I have to agree that I didn't like that thing she did with her ear piece knowing now that she lipped the performance.
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R.K.
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Post by R.K. on Jan 23, 2013 14:30:16 GMT -5
Please do not tell me that this is turning into yet another thread about Beyonce's work ethics.
Again, getting co-writer credits is something that's been in the industry for so many years. Some of the most legendary names have done it, and probably more aggressively, but when it is associated with Beyonce it apparently needs to be enlarged to a major event. There are plenty of interviews and videos showing she does, in fact work with writers and producers instead of taking the sheet music and head straight into the vocal booth. It's not if she puts her name there without knowing how to read notes.
Anyway, this is not supposed to be about Beyonce.
Lip-syncing is never that major of an issue for me. I would like to think the performers I do watch, I have a pretty good sense of what they are capable of delivering, and I'm usually pretty good at recognizing lip-synced performances.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Jan 23, 2013 14:30:31 GMT -5
I think I'm one of the only ones who cares. If I go see someone in concert, I PAY to hear someone sing live. I don't pay to just be in the presence of the singer. I want to be entertained, and not by something that I could just pop into my CD player and listen to anyway. See, the things is, with people like Britney Spears, Janet Jackson and even Beyonce, you are paying to see a whole spectacle that is only put on by the best of the best. You are paying for the whole experience, the dancers, the people flying in the air, the pyros, the confetti, the special effects, and if you are not "entertained" by all of that, then something is wrong with you. Britney's Circus Tour cost over $50 million to make. It was one of the most elaborated productions ever. I would personally much more rather go to a Britney Spears show where I know I'm going to get maybe 10% of live vocals if I'm lucky, than to a perfectly sung Kelly Clarkson or Celine Dion concert where they are going to stand in front of a mic stand and belt amazing notes for 2 hours (even though Celine lip-syncs 90% of the time now, but let's not get into that). They're different types of shows. It's not about the vocals at a Janet Jackson or at a Madonna show. It never has been and it never will be. They didn't become the most legendary female performers of the (old) generation and Britney didn't become the most legendary female performer of this generation by standing behind a mic stand and singing live. I, for one, am not bothered by lip-syncing if there is a reason for it or if I'm getting something else out of it. Like I said, with Britney, Janet, Jennifer Lopez and even Madonna and Beyonce, you get a SHOW. Now, if I were to go see someone like Hillary Duff live (which I'd never do lol) to realize she's just standing there lip-syncing, then that wouldn't fly with me and I wouldn't really enjoy it. Beyonce can lip-sync left and right if she wants, I KNOW I'm going to love her concert from start to finish. She's the best female performer out there right now and her stage command is insane.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 15:05:49 GMT -5
I wonder how people feel about a concert with 100% live vocals but you're so far away from the stage, the person on stage could be anyone and you wouldn't know the difference. I've seen some concerts like that, and I didn't care because I was there for the experience itself. If I was only interested in the vocals, I could buy a live album or look up the tour performances on YouTube. It's the same thing with artists lipping to backing tracks at some point. I go to concerts for the experience and to have a good time, not to be served 100% live vocals or be a few feet away from the performer.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 23, 2013 15:08:48 GMT -5
I wonder how people feel about a concert with 100% live vocals but you're so far away from the stage, the person on stage could be anyone and you wouldn't know the difference. I've seen some concerts like that, and I didn't care because I was there for the experience itself. If I was only interested in the vocals, I could buy a live album or look up the tour performances on YouTube. It's the same thing with artists lipping to backing tracks at some point. I go to concerts for the experience and to have a good time, not to be served 100% live vocals or be a few feet away from the performer. Well, if you're going to a concert to hear someone sing live, how far away would you have to be sitting for them to sound like anyone and not know the difference? The parking lot? And I feel like anyone that has been to any kind of concert--whether an intimate, stripped-down live setting like Adele or Sheryl Crow to a full-on lip sync production like Britney Spears would all agree that YouTube doesn't do the live experience justice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 15:14:40 GMT -5
I wonder how people feel about a concert with 100% live vocals but you're so far away from the stage, the person on stage could be anyone and you wouldn't know the difference. I've seen some concerts like that, and I didn't care because I was there for the experience itself. If I was only interested in the vocals, I could buy a live album or look up the tour performances on YouTube. It's the same thing with artists lipping to backing tracks at some point. I go to concerts for the experience and to have a good time, not to be served 100% live vocals or be a few feet away from the performer. Well, if you're going to a concert to hear someone sing live, how far away would you have to be sitting for them to sound like anyone and not know the difference? The parking lot? And I feel like anyone that has been to any kind of concert--whether an intimate, stripped-down live setting like Adele or Sheryl Crow to a full-on lip sync production like Britney Spears would all agree that YouTube doesn't do the live experience justice. I didn't mean the way they sound. I mean I've seen concerts in arenas where I was far enough back I could hardly tell who was standing on stage. I could hear them, but I was mostly watching a screen. But your second point is right in line with mine. If I go to a concert, I'm going for the experience.
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