churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 9, 2013 11:33:10 GMT -5
^ While I agree with most of what you're saying, are you actually implying that Begin Again wasn't country? That song was pure country. 43dudleyvillas explained it well in the previous post. :) While I definitely agree that radio is becoming increasingly hesitant to play Taylor's music because of how "pop" she is becoming, I certainly think that PD's would have no problem at all playing her music if she released a "classic Taylor" song such as "All Too Well" rather than "Red." I'm sure Big Machine is anticipating a run similar to "Begin Again" for this song. It will probably zoom into the top 15, start struggling very badly to about #6, then be pushed to #1 on Mediabase through a massive maximum spins promotion, to be followed by a fast burn and minimal recurrent airplay.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Jun 9, 2013 13:10:34 GMT -5
^ While I agree with most of what you're saying, are you actually implying that Begin Again wasn't country? That song was pure country. 43dudleyvillas explained it well in the previous post. :) While I definitely agree that radio is becoming increasingly hesitant to play Taylor's music because of how "pop" she is becoming, I certainly think that PD's would have no problem at all playing her music if she released a "classic Taylor" song such as "All Too Well" rather than "Red." I'm sure Big Machine is anticipating a run similar to "Begin Again" for this song. It will probably zoom into the top 15, start struggling very badly to about #6, then be pushed to #1 on Mediabase through a massive maximum spins promotion, to be followed by a fast burn and minimal recurrent airplay. The part of your post that I bolded is exactly why I think that Taylor needs to release "Stay, Stay, Stay" as a single from this album. I think she needs to cater a little bit to country radio to re-assert herself there. I'm not implying at all that her songs haven't been successful from this album, but I think that if she released a straight up "country" song, with little to no pop leaning elements, it would do her some good at the format. That being said, I really do like "Red" and think that it is a good single choice, it's just that "Stay, Stay, Stay" could be a crucial release for her at some point.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Jun 9, 2013 15:17:06 GMT -5
I'm fine with Stay, Stay, Stay as long as they cut that "that's so fun!!!!1111 hehehehe" at the end of the song which is probably the most obnoxious thing she's ever done on a track.
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tsr
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Post by tsr on Jun 9, 2013 16:46:39 GMT -5
I honestly think "Holy Ground" would be a better choice than "Stay Stay Stay."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 15:36:58 GMT -5
According to Matt @ Roughstock ( rsmatto), a country 'remix' of "Red" was sent out to radio today.
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rowdawg21
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Post by rowdawg21 on Jun 11, 2013 15:43:13 GMT -5
According to Matt @ Roughstock ( rsmatto), a country 'remix' of "Red" was sent out to radio today. I just listened to it, and it sounds like the album version to me. I didn't hear any differences, and I think I would have noticed since I've listened to the album version a good number of times.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Jun 11, 2013 16:02:52 GMT -5
According to Matt @ Roughstock ( rsmatto), a country 'remix' of "Red" was sent out to radio today. I just listened to it, and it sounds like the album version to me. I didn't hear any differences, and I think I would have noticed since I've listened to the album version a good number of times. It sounded 'remixed' to me or at least that the instruments were changed here or there (like the thumping bass was tuned down).
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Post by Elusive Chanteuse on Jun 11, 2013 16:44:18 GMT -5
I just listened to it, and it sounds like the album version to me. I didn't hear any differences, and I think I would have noticed since I've listened to the album version a good number of times. It sounded 'remixed' to me or at least that the instruments were changed here or there (like the thumping bass was tuned down). Please tell me that the 're-eh-eh-ed' parts has been either minimized or cut off from the track. And do you guys know where we can hear the radio edit? I'd like to check it out.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 11, 2013 16:47:54 GMT -5
It sounded 'remixed' to me or at least that the instruments were changed here or there (like the thumping bass was tuned down). Please tell me that the 're-eh-eh-ed' parts has been either minimized or cut off from the track. I doubt it's been removed if some are disputing whether the remix even sounds any different than the original album cut, but that would just completely ruin the song if they were to cut that off imo.
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Post by Elusive Chanteuse on Jun 11, 2013 16:53:02 GMT -5
Please tell me that the 're-eh-eh-ed' parts has been either minimized or cut off from the track. I doubt it's been removed if some are disputing whether the remix even sounds any different than the original album cut, but that would just completely ruin the song if they were to cut that off imo. True, but those parts doesn't seem suited for Country radio. If anything, those parts are more suited for the Pop format (which is why I think they put it in). I'm just glad that Red is finally getting a release, instead of being neglected like Speak Now.
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ILLUSION
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Post by ILLUSION on Jun 11, 2013 16:56:35 GMT -5
Interesting choice for Country format. I thought it was the obvious next choice for Pop. Not sure how this will do. I don't want ATW to be a single because I love it as an album track and don't want to get sick of hearing it on the radio!
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churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 11, 2013 23:19:49 GMT -5
^If I used that logic, I'd never want any album track I loved to be released to radio after I purchased the album because I listen to my favorite album tracks so often, but, wouldn't you rather they release the highest quality tracks off the album rather than releasing stuff that you don't care for anyway, and would get sick of much more easily than you would your favorite album tracks? :)
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Jun 12, 2013 2:31:39 GMT -5
^If I used that logic, I'd never want any album track I loved to be released to radio after I purchased the album because I listen to my favorite album tracks so often, but, wouldn't you rather they release the highest quality tracks off the album rather than releasing stuff that you don't care for anyway, and would get sick of much more easily than you would your favorite album tracks? :) Yeah, I think it's silly when people say "oh, I like this...as an album track and I want it to stay that way." Personally, I tend to enjoy songs even more when they're released with all the live performances, video treatment and hearing it constantly. It makes me appreciate it even better. Usually, if I DON'T like a song and it's released, I tend to favor it because of everything that comes along with it so I'm happy. This is one of my favorite tracks on the record. Also, getting rid of the "red-eh-eh-eh" part would be stupid, it's the hook of the song...country or not, it's the one part of the track that will stick to your head right after you listen to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 9:21:12 GMT -5
^If I used that logic, I'd never want any album track I loved to be released to radio after I purchased the album because I listen to my favorite album tracks so often, but, wouldn't you rather they release the highest quality tracks off the album rather than releasing stuff that you don't care for anyway, and would get sick of much more easily than you would your favorite album tracks? :) Yeah, I think it's silly when people say "oh, I like this...as an album track and I want it to stay that way." Personally, I tend to enjoy songs even more when they're released with all the live performances, video treatment and hearing it constantly. It makes me appreciate it even better. Usually, if I DON'T like a song and it's released, I tend to favor it because of everything that comes along with it so I'm happy. This is one of my favorite tracks on the record. Also, getting rid of the "red-eh-eh-eh" part would be stupid, it's the hook of the song...country or not, it's the one part of the track that will stick to your head right after you listen to it. I agree in that if we had two distinct versions I would prefer the version WITH the 're-eh-eh-ed' part, however I don't see how that part of the song has any place on country radio.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Jun 12, 2013 19:14:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it's silly when people say "oh, I like this...as an album track and I want it to stay that way." Personally, I tend to enjoy songs even more when they're released with all the live performances, video treatment and hearing it constantly. It makes me appreciate it even better. Usually, if I DON'T like a song and it's released, I tend to favor it because of everything that comes along with it so I'm happy. This is one of my favorite tracks on the record. Also, getting rid of the "red-eh-eh-eh" part would be stupid, it's the hook of the song...country or not, it's the one part of the track that will stick to your head right after you listen to it. I agree in that if we had two distinct versions I would prefer the version WITH the 're-eh-eh-ed' part, however I don't see how that part of the song has any place on country radio. Red...red...red...red...red...red...redneck. Though you can probably argue that song too maybe doesn't have a place on country radio.?
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 12, 2013 22:16:03 GMT -5
I don't get why we're singling out the hook on this song of all things as something that sticks out on country radio. Like, it really doesn't seem that out of place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 9:07:03 GMT -5
I agree in that if we had two distinct versions I would prefer the version WITH the 're-eh-eh-ed' part, however I don't see how that part of the song has any place on country radio. Red...red...red...red...red...red...redneck. Though you can probably argue that song too maybe doesn't have a place on country radio.? That other song has no place on any radio. at least Taylors partly-country song is well written.
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Kurt
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Post by Kurt on Jun 13, 2013 10:21:13 GMT -5
Goes for adds June 24, per R&R.
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churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 13, 2013 14:10:30 GMT -5
I can see why people might say that the hook of "Red" sounds out of place on country radio just because it sounds very pop-ish to me (although I still think that hook is part of what makes the song so memorable and catchy and it should not be removed), but I can't fathom for the life of me how the hook of "Boys 'Round Here" doesn't have a place on country radio. People disliking the hook is one thing, but you don't get much more country than "red-red-red-red-red-red-redneck."
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Post by ripediebritt on Jun 13, 2013 14:59:21 GMT -5
Thats exactly the problem with some country listeners. A song doesnt have to be about rednecks, beer and trucks to be country, in fact that theme is so over done. Boys round here is so bad its almost offensive that anyone enjoyed it enough to take it to #1. The entire song doesnt belong in existence let alone radio of any format. Red's stuttering hook may not be your typical country fare but A) its one tiny part of the song and B) Who says that all country songs must fit inside a tiny box? I'd rather have more innovative, new things on country radio (while still being country in some form) than the millionth beer/im-so-country/redneck/truck anthem that is oh so tired. Mind you, Im not saying that dubstep and EDM should take over country airwaves, but its in desperate need of a breath of fresh air.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 13, 2013 15:03:27 GMT -5
but I can't fathom for the life of me how the hook of "Boys 'Round Here" doesn't have a place on country radio. People disliking the hook is one thing, but you don't get much more country than "red-red-red-red-red-red-redneck." I think the focus/comparison clearly isn't on the word "redneck" itself but the way it's repeated. "Boys Round Here", in my opinion, sounds even less "country" than "Red". If it has been able to achieve success on radio, I see no reason why "Red" wouldn't be able to. I think Blake's last two singles are as much pop as any of Taylor's country releases have ever been (save "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together") actually.
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churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 13, 2013 16:09:42 GMT -5
I don't really want to get into an argument about whether "Boys 'Round Here" belongs on country radio in a thread about "Red," even though I still don't see how the repetition of the word "red" in BRH makes the song not sound very "country," so I will stick to comparison of the two. I think the main difference lies in the way the two artists sing their songs. Blake sings his with, in my opinion, a very "country" voice, sort of a southern drawl. I definitely can't see Blake's song being played on pop radio with the way he sings it. Taylor's voice, in "Red," sounds sort of pop, but I think in this particular song it is not too polarizing (like "I Knew You Were Trouble" and "22") that it would not be accepted by both country and pop radio. There are also, of course, the lyrical differences. Taylor's song is a typical teen love song, which country radio certainly would play, but Blake's song's lyrics are almost "overly" country, to the extent where I actually see the song as a parody of the "redneck life." Again, I can't imagine pop radio playing a song with lyrics such as "ole Bocephus through a jukebox needle at a honky-tonk, where their boots stomp all night," and, of course, the chorus. I fail to see how the two songs are equally pop-sounding or have equal chances of succeeding at country radio at all. I don't see how there could have been any question about it that "Boys 'Round Here," with its lyrics and the way Blake sings them, would have been a pretty big hit at country radio, whereas I definitely see where people might say that Taylor's song could be a bit too polarizing, possibly even simply because, as 43dudleyvillas said earlier in the thread, Taylor herself has become such a big pop star, and now the song being promoted to country radio is going to become a huge hit with pop fans at the same time. There may be a backlash from several PD's and there will probably be a backlash from a lot of country listeners as well, but I honestly don't see this song having too much of a hard time working its way up the charts. I still think it will be a big #1 hit, but I do understand the side of those who are skeptical about it. The whole thing just has a very "pop" feel to me. Just to clarify, though, I'm not trying to say that I think country radio will ONLY play songs with lyrics about beer, trucks, farms, etc, nor do I think they will automatically play a song that is about one of those "country themes," (as shown by the major failure of the recent Craig Morgan single "More Trucks Than Cars"). My point is that I don't see how someone could make the proposal that BRH had equal chances of being played by country radio as "Red." Blake's song is pure country, in my opinion, whereas Taylor's song is questionable. I do think country radio is willing to and has played new and "out-of-the-box" songs, and I don't feel there is much of relationship at all between usage of terms such as "beer" and "trucks" and radio success, anymore. A lot of folks find Blake's song really catchy and it is selling really well. Taylor's song would seem like the perfect late summer radio hit if it weren't for the way Taylor has become such a polarizing artist. Nonetheless, my conclusion is that I predict "Red" to climb quickly up both the country and pop charts and become a huge crossover hit. Radio will play just about anything that sells well these days.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Jun 13, 2013 16:26:58 GMT -5
I'm just going to hit on two quick points here:
If one finds it difficult/impossible to label any of Taylor's music "country" based on her phrasing/vocal stylings then there is no point in even discussing where on the spectrum of pop/country her music falls, as her voice is never going to change (so no matter the instrumentation of any release, those who determine genre on such specifications will never be swayed in their opinion). Personally, I don't think you need a twang or a drawl to release a country song/be a country artist. If this were the case, only artists hailing from the south could ever be considered "truly" country artists. Country music shouldn't be about such trivial/shallow facets in the first place. Not every female country artist should sound like Jennifer Nettles (love her to death, but I'd kill myself if there wasn't a bit of variety thrown in the mix).
From a lyrical perspective, I fail to see how "Red" is a "typical teen love song". Nothing about the song emphasizes a "teen" perspective. The lyrical reach of the song is pretty broad (sentiments any aged person can relate to) and doesn't center on immature themes/wording (as say, "Our Song"). I think people like to tack on "teen" to anything Taylor releases, as if it's the "popular/expected/comfortable" thing to do, even in situations like this, where the label is completely unjustified.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 13, 2013 16:32:10 GMT -5
Don't forget, Wyomissing (Taylor Swift's hometown), is in SOUTHERN and Eastern Pennsylvania. So she IS Southern in my book!
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churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 13, 2013 21:42:26 GMT -5
I'm just going to hit on two quick points here: If one finds it difficult/impossible to label any of Taylor's music "country" based on her phrasing/vocal stylings then there is no point in even discussing where on the spectrum of pop/country her music falls, as her voice is never going to change (so no matter the instrumentation of any release, those who determine genre on such specifications will never be swayed in their opinion). Personally, I don't think you need a twang or a drawl to release a country song/be a country artist. If this were the case, only artists hailing from the south could ever be considered "truly" country artists. Country music shouldn't be about such trivial/shallow facets in the first place. Not every female country artist should sound like Jennifer Nettles (love her to death, but I'd kill myself if there wasn't a bit of variety thrown in the mix). From a lyrical perspective, I fail to see how "Red" is a "typical teen love song". Nothing about the song emphasizes a "teen" perspective. The lyrical reach of the song is pretty broad (sentiments any aged person can relate to) and doesn't center on immature themes/wording (as say, "Our Song"). I think people like to tack on "teen" to anything Taylor releases, as if it's the "popular/expected/comfortable" thing to do, even in situations like this, where the label is completely unjustified. I don't think that it is necessary to have a southern drawl or, for a female, a voice like Jennifer Nettles' (or Clara Henningsen's) to be a country artist. The point I was trying to make was in response to your statement that, if radio will play Blake's song, there is no reason why they wouldn't play "Red," by explaining how "Boys 'Round Here" is much more noticeably country. I don't find BRH to be pop at all, and that was what I was trying to explain here by pointing out how there is no way the vocals, instrumentation, or lyrics of that song could be played on pop radio or seen as any thing but country, whereas the case is not the same for "Red," which is so pop that it is being released to pop radio. I think Taylor is definitely a country artist and most of her music does sound country. I don't find most of her songs to have phrasing and vocal styles that don't fit what I see as "country," but in this particular song, I'd say those things are on the border. I'm willing to discuss where her music falls in regards to country vs. pop, and I'd say most of her singles have certainly seemed like country (not sure about her album tracks, as I never have bought or streamed a full Taylor album...one of those things on my Bucket List :)) ). It's only with this recent era('s singles) that I've started to feel she's pushing the boundaries. It seems like we pretty much agree entirely with your statements in the first paragraph, but there were just a few misunderstandings. I can see why people would find "Red" pop-sounding, but I don't think it is to the point where it can't possibly be defined as country, like the two Taylor pop singles I used as examples in my previous post. The only thing I disagree with you on is the statement I put in boldface in your first paragraph. This is just a matter of opinion, but I do think voice plays a huge role in deciding whether something is country. Like you said, not every female country artist should sound like Jennifer Nettles, but, for example, Adele could never be a country singer, or at least not with the way her vocals sound in her pop songs. If you listen to "I Knew You Were Trouble" or "22," you might see what I mean. The vocals on some of Taylor's songs are just too polarizing to be considered country, and when Taylor is making such polarizing songs top 10 hits on pop radio and with this era becoming much more famous for her pop hits, some people may start to feel hostile towards Taylor as a country artist, which I think is unfair, but there are a lot of country listeners who are a bit overly concerned about the format being taken over by artists who aren't truly country (not that I don't think this is a problem, but it's not fair to be unaccepting of crossover artists when they put out decent country songs, regardless of what their non-country songs sound like). However, Taylor has had multi-format hits before that were #1 on the country chart, so I don't see why "Red" can't become a hit unless PD's see Taylor as "too far gone" or find this particular song to be even more pop-sounding than her previous crossover hits. As for your second paragraph, I find most of Taylor's songs to be seemingly aimed at youth. Aside from "Fifteen," none of Taylor's other songs have specifically mentioned being young, at least not that I can remember, but the themes of the songs, while not bad, just don't generally seem like the kinds of themes you'd hear, say Miranda Lambert or Carrie Underwood, singing about. In some cases, it's not so much the theme, but the hook ("You Belong with Me," "Picture to Burn," "Sparks Fly"). I try not to just carelessly tack on words because they seem comfortable or socially acceptable, but I really do find "Red" to contain more of a hook that a lot of teens would enjoy. I just can't imagine other female artists singing a song where they compare different stages of love to various colors. I definitely think it's creative and cute, but Taylor's style really has generally more appeal to teens and youth, which is why Taylor is generally regarded as a great role model for teens. I fully enjoy Ms. Swift's music and her style, but I really do see most of her songs, including this one, as more easily relatable for youngsters. I guess this is one of those cases where it's just a matter of interpretation, though.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jun 13, 2013 22:03:42 GMT -5
Basically I feel like the argument here is that Taylor and Blake both do essentially the same thing with the stuttering, but Blake's is viewed as a complete free pass for country radio because his just happens to be the word "redneck," instead of a generic term like "red" (which could be viewed as "pop"). That's really what I'm getting from this.
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churchchoir
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Post by churchchoir on Jun 13, 2013 22:19:17 GMT -5
I feel like the stuttering itself isn't really a problem in either case, but it's not just stuttering in "Red." It's not a matter of Blake says "red-red-redneck" and Taylor says "re-e-e-ed." The sound effects on the song make Taylor's voice sound a bit too "pop" when she says it. But as I said before, I don't see this as much of a threat to the song's chart success.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Jun 13, 2013 22:58:54 GMT -5
Basically I feel like the argument here is that Taylor and Blake both do essentially the same thing with the stuttering, but Blake's is viewed as a complete free pass for country radio because his just happens to be the word "redneck," instead of a generic term like "red" (which could be viewed as "pop"). That's really what I'm getting from this. I view the electro-stutter in "Boys 'Round Here" as a non-country element in an incredibly crappy country song, while the electro-stutter in "Red" strikes me as one of several pop elements in a pop song. To the degree that my view is representative, I think it is the overall context for the electro-stutters that is determining the acceptance issue, and not "redneck" versus "red" alone. That said, I already said that I don't personally see an argument against "Red"'s electro-stutter now that "Boys 'Round Here" has already gotten away with it. If one finds it difficult/impossible to label any of Taylor's music "country" based on her phrasing/vocal stylings then there is no point in even discussing where on the spectrum of pop/country her music falls, as her voice is never going to change (so no matter the instrumentation of any release, those who determine genre on such specifications will never be swayed in their opinion). Personally, I don't think you need a twang or a drawl to release a country song/be a country artist. If this were the case, only artists hailing from the south could ever be considered "truly" country artists. Country music shouldn't be about such trivial/shallow facets in the first place. Not every female country artist should sound like Jennifer Nettles (love her to death, but I'd kill myself if there wasn't a bit of variety thrown in the mix). The vocal stylizations signature to country aren't limited to twang and drawl. There's the country cry, the curls in the phrasing, certain trills. Somehow, country music has managed a nice variety of vocalists who exhibit those stylizations in varying degrees...from George Jones to Vince Gill, from the line of big-voiced female singers (Patsy Cline on forward) to the minimalists like Lee Ann Womack. Thats exactly the problem with some country listeners. A song doesnt have to be about rednecks, beer and trucks to be country, in fact that theme is so over done. Boys round here is so bad its almost offensive that anyone enjoyed it enough to take it to #1. The entire song doesnt belong in existence let alone radio of any format. Red's stuttering hook may not be your typical country fare but A) its one tiny part of the song and B) Who says that all country songs must fit inside a tiny box? I'd rather have more innovative, new things on country radio (while still being country in some form) than the millionth beer/im-so-country/redneck/truck anthem that is oh so tired. Mind you, Im not saying that dubstep and EDM should take over country airwaves, but its in desperate need of a breath of fresh air. I think we have different opinions on "Red" and whether it qualifies as innovative in any context, but I completely agree with your broader point. The worst of many unfortunate trends at country radio has to be the overload of empty redneck/backwoods signifiers that celebrate a proudly provincial view of rural life and the "us" that makes up the country community. That's what makes Kacey Musgraves' penetration of country radio an especially important development if she can sustain it, and that's what made Brad Paisley's "Welcome to the Future," "American Saturday Night" and "Southern Comfort Zone" especially important singles despite their flaws. Both have tried to expand country music's assumptions about daily life and its listeners to reflect the twenty-first century. Miranda Lambert's new single, "All Kinds of Kinds" aims in that direction too.
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Jun 13, 2013 23:16:56 GMT -5
Other than WANEGBT, all of Taylor's country radio releases have been appropriate for country radios. Minus the "Re-e-e-ed" part, this song sounds like all of her previous country singles with appeal to both country and pop listeners.
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Post by Living Legend on Jun 14, 2013 1:51:32 GMT -5
Is this close to debuting on Billboard Country Airplay yet? I'm sure stations have begun to spin it already
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