SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 14, 2013 0:10:42 GMT -5
Hmm I'm not convinced.
Counting Stars Timber Wake Me Up Wrecking Ball Roar Applause Story of My Life Brave
Those are the tops (besides a few others) but those are still pop to me. Maybe not you tho.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 14, 2013 0:12:16 GMT -5
I think top 40 radio is more diversified that it has been in ages which is awesome. However I think people are getting more into buying albums from non pop artist and buying pop artist singles more actually.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 0:13:46 GMT -5
So you just chose several songs high up on the chart that you don't think fit that mold? I don't see how that proves what I was saying is wrong. I chose songs that are in the Top 10 (and comprise most of it). You just chose a bunch of songs in the upper region. I think "Counting Stars" and "Brave" are definitely adult alternative pop. It's still pop, but it's not the type of pop that was dominating the past few years.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 14, 2013 0:30:10 GMT -5
Adult alternative pop? Are you really arguing with that? lol
Look, I get what you're saying, but I don't see it shifting completely. Lorde may have some impact in terms of that tho, so I do see some alternative stuff going on. Demons is another one. Lorde is also NOT Adele.
And yes, I picked the top ones because they are all in the Top 15 right now. Nothing I mentioned is anything lower than that.
But i do get what you're saying, but it's still all pop to me. I still hear Zedd, Maroon 5, and Work Work all the time. It's about a 70/30 split.
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josh
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Post by josh on Nov 14, 2013 0:31:34 GMT -5
What about Pickler!
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mluv
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Post by mluv on Nov 14, 2013 0:34:39 GMT -5
What seems to be charting well now are songs that are starting out in alternative and crossing over like Lorde and Imagine Dragons, mainstreaming rappers like Macklemore, hand clapping & foot stomping & folky songs like Mumford & Songs & some r&b like Drake and justin. Pop is still selling like for Miley & Katy Perry. Even Lady Gaga. Even with the album coming in below estimate it's still going to be one of the top sellers for the year.
But the definition of pop can vary. For instance, The Neighbourhood (Sweater Weather) says they consider themselves dark pop.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 14, 2013 0:37:41 GMT -5
I have noticed the top 10 at any given time can be different so why look at just right now? To me we have seen all sorts of songs in the top 10 in the past several months. I think the days of any one genre dominating are over. The country is becoming more diversified and maybe the music is as well.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 14, 2013 0:38:58 GMT -5
I have noticed the top 10 at any given time can be different so why look at just right now? To me we have seen all sorts of songs in the top 10 in the past several months. I think the days of any one genre dominating are over. The country is becoming more diversified and maybe the music is as well. What I think is funny is much of what is called alternative nowadays was top 40 fair in the 80s. It is all relative to a point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 0:59:35 GMT -5
Adult alternative pop? Are you really arguing with that? lol Look, I get what you're saying, but I don't see it shifting completely. Lorde may have some impact in terms of that tho, so I do see some alternative stuff going on. Demons is another one. Lorde is also NOT Adele.And yes, I picked the top ones because they are all in the Top 15 right now. Nothing I mentioned is anything lower than that. But i do get what you're saying, but it's still all pop to me. I still hear Zedd, Maroon 5, and Work Work all the time. It's about a 70/30 split. Missing the point again.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 14, 2013 2:42:57 GMT -5
Under 300k?! Not good.
But on the other hand, not much difference whether an album debuts with 275k or 350k if it has legs. Those sales can be "gained" with one fantastic performance at the Grammy Awards.
Of course she's past her prime as a sales force but that's just normal.
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Post by slicknickshady on Nov 14, 2013 3:49:23 GMT -5
Eminem's biggest 2nd week drop ever is 65% with Relapse. MMLP2 has a bigger current hit then Relapse did with "We Made You" so thats not going to happen but if it did that would still put MMLP2 on pace for 277k.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 14, 2013 3:51:44 GMT -5
But 65% would be like winning in lottery these days, 70% is more of a norm.
I predict 275k for Gaga and 250k for Eminem.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Nov 14, 2013 3:53:30 GMT -5
I feel like there's kind of an "anti-pop" movement going on right now following years of mindless dance-pop. Not to the extent that there was one in the early 90s, but still.. I don't think "movement" is really the right word to describe it. It's just that modern pop seems to be shifting where it draws its influences from. There's no real push from anywhere to get it out (vs. the early 90s or early 00s), it just seems to be morphing into something else. I'd say that Roar for example is moving with that change.
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Post by slicknickshady on Nov 14, 2013 3:56:21 GMT -5
But 65% would be like winning in lottery these days, 70% is more of a norm. Recovery only dropped 57% a week later. That Keith Caulfield of Billboard is an Eminem hater. Of course he's going to assume Em drops a lot. He blocked me on twitter years ago when i called him out on his Eminem hating. I would be floored if it's a 65% drop. As you can see, i'm not a Keith Caulfield fan. I saw nothing in his article that mentioned this is according to industry retailers or anything like that. It's like he pulled it out of his butt that Eminem will drop that much.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 14, 2013 4:02:34 GMT -5
TMMLP2 will without a doubt do fantastically well in the long run and its declines from 3rd week onwards will probably be smaller than others' but after such a massive opening, overwhelming even, the second week drop basically can't be under 60%.
Just my thoughts though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 4:07:50 GMT -5
Maybe in terms of album sales. But certainly not single sales. Looking at the iTunes Top 10 right now: Eminem A cover of "Hallelujah" Lorde OneRepublic Imagine Dragons Passenger Mumford & EDM "Wake Me Up" A lot of music that goes in a different direction from the dance-pop that dominated over the past 4-5 years. Gaga and Katy Perry's most recent singles haven't been selling that well. Katy's most recent single is a ballad, and Gaga's is more Rhythmic. I don't think them underperforming has anything to do with a dance-pop backlash.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Nov 14, 2013 4:45:29 GMT -5
Looking at the iTunes Top 10 right now: Eminem A cover of "Hallelujah" Lorde OneRepublic Imagine Dragons Passenger Mumford & EDM "Wake Me Up" A lot of music that goes in a different direction from the dance-pop that dominated over the past 4-5 years. Gaga and Katy Perry's most recent singles haven't been selling that well. Katy's most recent single is a ballad, and Gaga's is more Rhythmic. I don't think them underperforming has anything to do with a dance-pop backlash. I'm SERIOUSLY starting to wonder if the GP are just over the 2000s (early, mid and late) female pop stars (whether it be pure, r&b, rock, dance etc.) and are really looking for a new breed. The question really is who will fill their spots?
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Nov 14, 2013 9:22:55 GMT -5
Now the Gaga thread has been taken over by the demise of pop! Lol
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 14, 2013 9:28:18 GMT -5
But 65% would be like winning in lottery these days, 70% is more of a norm. Recovery only dropped 57% a week later. That Keith Caulfield of Billboard is an Eminem hater. Of course he's going to assume Em drops a lot. He blocked me on twitter years ago when i called him out on his Eminem hating. I would be floored if it's a 65% drop. As you can see, i'm not a Keith Caulfield fan. I saw nothing in his article that mentioned this is according to industry retailers or anything like that. It's like he pulled it out of his butt that Eminem will drop that much. LOL C'mon! He's looking at the numbers. Don't you think he talks to industry people before he writes an article saying GaGa will be #1 next week????
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 14, 2013 9:34:30 GMT -5
#1 singles in 2013:
Locked Out of Heaven Thrift Shop Harlem Shake When I Was Your Man Just Give Me a Reason Can't Hold Us Blurred Lines Roar Wrecking Ball Royals
Other than "Harlem Shake," which was not a huge radio and digital seller, what other pure EDM single has hit #1? It's obviously a trend that is on the way out after dominating for quite a few years.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Nov 14, 2013 9:35:34 GMT -5
How many pure EDM singles hit No. 1, though? Should we differentiate between EDM and stuff that's more dance-pop? Obviously, there hasn't been a lot of hardcore EDM hitting No. 1.
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 14, 2013 9:46:59 GMT -5
How many pure EDM singles hit No. 1, though? Should we differentiate between EDM and stuff that's more dance-pop? Obviously, there hasn't been a lot of hardcore EDM hitting No. 1. Yeah, "pure EDM" isn't quite the term. Dance Pop applies as well.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Nov 14, 2013 10:01:39 GMT -5
You know what's going to happen is 80 to 100k sales will be added in, as the CMA sales were counted last week and not included in projections, lol. Wouldn't be surprised as the CMA took effect a week early.
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Eqbk
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Post by Eqbk on Nov 14, 2013 10:13:45 GMT -5
Is it female pop star fatigue? None of them seem to be moving many albums at this point. I'm SERIOUSLY starting to wonder if the GP are just over the 2000s (early, mid and late) female pop stars (whether it be pure, r&b, rock, dance etc.) and are really looking for a new breed. The question really is who will fill their spots? I really don't think that's the case. Katy and Miley saw an increase in their opening week sales compared to their last albums. "Roar" did fantastic and "Unconditionally" is doing well airplay wise despite lackluster sales. Miley has obviously seen a massive resurgence in sales compared to the last era. As for the other pop female pop stars, Rihanna will more likely be just fine and continue to sell singles and albums steadily and is set to get another hit w/ her latest collab. Beyonce saw a decline in album sales but sold well despite having no pop hits. Kelly also saw a rise in commercial success w/ her last era. Britney's on the decline but that's b/c she just doesn't give a f**k. The only ones that have really seen a decline due to the nature of the current musical climate are Gaga and Ke$ha, both of whom came into prominence during and due to the rise in dance music's popularity. I find it kind of funny that just b/c Gaga is seeing a massive decline, all of sudden female pop stars are on the decline, when in reality, the majority of them are doing just fine, and in some cases seeing an improvement commercially.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 14, 2013 10:40:56 GMT -5
thanks to tada at UKMix:
Em's 792k
60% drop: 319k 65% drop: 277k 70% drop: 238k
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 14, 2013 10:53:05 GMT -5
Is it female pop star fatigue? None of them seem to be moving many albums at this point. I'm SERIOUSLY starting to wonder if the GP are just over the 2000s (early, mid and late) female pop stars (whether it be pure, r&b, rock, dance etc.) and are really looking for a new breed. The question really is who will fill their spots? I really don't think that's the case. Katy and Miley saw an increase in their opening week sales compared to their last albums. "Roar" did fantastic and "Unconditionally" is doing well airplay wise despite lackluster sales. Miley has obviously seen a massive resurgence in sales compared to the last era. As for the other pop female pop stars, Rihanna will more likely be just fine and continue to sell singles and albums steadily and is set to get another hit w/ her latest collab. Beyonce saw a decline in album sales but sold well despite having no pop hits. Kelly also saw a rise in commercial success w/ her last era. Britney's on the decline but that's b/c she just doesn't give a f**k. The only ones that have really seen a decline due to the nature of the current musical climate are Gaga and Ke$ha, both of whom came into prominence during and due to the rise in dance music's popularity. I find it kind of funny that just b/c Gaga is seeing a massive decline, all of sudden female pop stars are on the decline, when in reality, the majority of them are doing just fine, and in some cases seeing an improvement commercially. Katy followed the peak of her career with a sub-300k opening despite a huge hit. She increased, what, 90k from the Teenage Dream opening? After three years of non-stop hits and promo? Look at the increase in sales Gaga experienced from The Fame Monster to Born This Way - .99 sale excluded. Rihanna's hits have slowed down as well, even if this Eminem collab is doing well. Again, Beyonce released her last album two and a half years ago, that is no measure of the climate today. Female Pop stars were everywhere in 2011. Miley is the exception mostly because she's totally reinvented herself. She hasn't been a factor since 2009.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Nov 14, 2013 10:57:18 GMT -5
I don't think @jazzysoul47 was suggesting that every brand of Pulse diva pop was radio poison or dated, but rather the easy, paint-by-numbers dance pop of 2010-2012 isn't a guarantee hit like it used to be. People were practically begging for pop radio to let other sounds in by late 2011, and they've done just that. I don't think any transformation has occurred yet (nor do I think he was suggesting it has), but an expansion. Adele didn't invent a sound, per se, but she did come in with a sound a time when people were thirsty for it--many of whom didn't even know they were. This earthy, more real- and full-sounding adult pop that's shown itself in a lot of different ways and acts since she bulldozed her way past LMFAO and Rihanna and Kesha and the rest.
We're seeing songs that embrace that sound, even ones that bridge the gap between that and the bouncier pop of yesteryear like "Roar"--do better than the ones catering directly to that 2010-2012 sound ("People Like Us," "Your Body," "Right Now," "C'Mon," etc.). It seems like you need to either move harder into an EDM sound, or go more grounded.
But I don't think it's some female artist fatigue. Miley changed her sound drastically, and while she was wildly digitally popular, it may have alienated some, while igniting the interest of people who would rather stream the shit out of the songs they like than buy an album, and Katy hasn't proven that people are as wildly interested in her as they are in her singles (though I would argue that both of their albums are selling strongly, so w/e). And anyone who kept their head out of the sand should have seen Gaga's writing on the wall--she fell a bit out of public favor as she moved away from solid, accessible pop music; the initial performance of "Applause" should have been all anyone needed to see.
If Britney opens low, it's because people have stopped buying into her brand after years of tarnishing it by not doing shit; doesn't mean she hasn't left a legacy on pop music, but she isn't going to sell truckloads with a couple of smiley interviews and music videos feat. knee bends (nor, imo, weak songs like "Perfume"). Different story, similar result for Mariah (again, nothing at this point is going to tarnish her legacy, but it's not going to lead to great sales unless she comes up with strong music and sings it live and well).
There's absolutely still a strong place for women in pop, but it's always taken something special for them to sell as much as acts like Eminem and the male country superstars.
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on Nov 14, 2013 11:12:45 GMT -5
So if Ga edges out Em by 261 to 260 is that better than Em 291 and Ga 290? If #1 weren't in doubt, I doubt we'd be seeing the "meltdown." I still want to know how on earth the CMA went into effect last chart week (based on the Applause sales). It does not make sense - ARTPOP's single sales were converted to CMA last week, then the album should've charted. You can't CMA until released. Something is off in Billboard's methodology.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Nov 14, 2013 11:28:30 GMT -5
I really don't think that's the case. Katy and Miley saw an increase in their opening week sales compared to their last albums. "Roar" did fantastic and "Unconditionally" is doing well airplay wise despite lackluster sales. Miley has obviously seen a massive resurgence in sales compared to the last era. As for the other pop female pop stars, Rihanna will more likely be just fine and continue to sell singles and albums steadily and is set to get another hit w/ her latest collab. Beyonce saw a decline in album sales but sold well despite having no pop hits. Kelly also saw a rise in commercial success w/ her last era. Britney's on the decline but that's b/c she just doesn't give a f**k. The only ones that have really seen a decline due to the nature of the current musical climate are Gaga and Ke$ha, both of whom came into prominence during and due to the rise in dance music's popularity. I find it kind of funny that just b/c Gaga is seeing a massive decline, all of sudden female pop stars are on the decline, when in reality, the majority of them are doing just fine, and in some cases seeing an improvement commercially. Katy followed the peak of her career with a sub-300k opening despite a huge hit. She increased, what, 90k from the Teenage Dream opening? After three years of non-stop hits and promo? Look at the increase in sales Gaga experienced from The Fame Monster to Born This Way - .99 sale excluded. Rihanna's hits have slowed down as well, even if this Eminem collab is doing well. Again, Beyonce released her last album two and a half years ago, that is no measure of the climate today. Female Pop stars were everywhere in 2011. Miley is the exception mostly because she's totally reinvented herself. She hasn't been a factor since 2009. I think Rihanna could have big hits right now if she wants them. Diamonds and stay were smashes. Pour it up smashed on the two formats it was serviced to. Meanwhile right now didn't do well and you could tell Rihanna wasn't invested in that song what so ever . I think when Rihanna comes back next album she ll get back into her normal combfort of at least a few hits per era and a 1 million selling album
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 14, 2013 13:31:01 GMT -5
I think Rihanna could have big hits right now if she wants them. Diamonds and stay were smashes. Pour it up smashed on the two formats it was serviced to. Meanwhile right now didn't do well and you could tell Rihanna wasn't invested in that song what so ever . I think when Rihanna comes back next album she ll get back into her normal combfort of at least a few hits per era and a 1 million selling album This is the line of thinking that I think people find themselves stuck in when it comes to any sort of diva wars and heated discussions. This idea that just because Katy had a huge era with TD that Prism is going to be massive. Or that just because 21 was the era of the century for any artist, Adele is going to open with 1 million copies of her next album. Many of us (myself included) wrongly predicted that Gaga's huge success would continue into BTW and again into Artpop, not taking into account just how large the backlash is. Just because Rihanna has had comfortable hits for albums doesn't make it anymore likely that her next album will repeat that success. Britney also isn't guaranteed to have a big era with Britney Jean, nor is Mariah with her next album or Madonna with her next album. Past success is an indicator but it's not the comfort blanky we can rely on so much. Personally, I don't think Prism will be as big as TD. Artpop won't be as big as BTW. Britney Jean will be disappointing sales-wise and singles-wise. Rihanna *will* eventually have a flop era. Every artist *will* experience a flop at one point or another (with the exception of those who retire before they can flop). At the end of the day, all we can do is predict and back up our predictions with our reasonings and then wait and see.
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