Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 16:29:10 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, both of those are poppy, but this is the poppiest song on the chart. It's not alternative rock in any way, and that's a unanimous claim from everyone here, even the pop posters who love it to death. Come on - there's no instruments at all, just a repetitive hip-hop beat in the background. What makes that alternative? It's a horrible song in general, to be honest. There's a fair amount of drums and bass. This is only poppy relatively to the rest of the chart, it's actually "alternative" to the current wave of mainstream pop music, which is the traditional description of alternative.It's important to be willing to accept both the Post-Nirvana AND Pre-Nirvana definitions. This would've charted in the late 80s on Alternative as well. Uh, no... this sounds like a regular pop song. And the drums and bass are all computer generated anyway, and by bass I mean bass guitar.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 16:39:53 GMT -5
And the drums and bass are all computer generated anyway, and by bass I mean bass guitar. All the drums and bass in New Wave are computer generated, and damn straight that's Alternative.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 16:43:35 GMT -5
And the drums and bass are all computer generated anyway, and by bass I mean bass guitar. All the drums and bass in New Wave are computer generated, and damn straight that's Alternative. Well, Newwave is an 80s thing, and that was three decades before my time, so I'm gonna need your help telling me some genre defining new wave bands.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Jul 30, 2014 16:52:44 GMT -5
And the drums and bass are all computer generated anyway, and by bass I mean bass guitar. All the drums and bass in New Wave are computer generated, and damn straight that's Alternative. Really? I thought they used actual drums, albeit electronic ones, and bass guitars (a la New Order). Also, I managed to catch an interview with her and KROQ's Stryker, and she seems to be a pretty nice person. Shame, as this song is still horrible.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:08:02 GMT -5
All the drums and bass in New Wave are computer generated, and damn straight that's Alternative. Well, Newwave is an 80s thing, and that was three decades before my time, so I'm gonna need your help telling me some genre defining new wave bands. My dad actually has a Time Life CD collection of 80s new wave/modern rock, so despite being too young I still grew up on it. Lots of Alt stations play classic Alt songs on Sundays. Listen to one of those. All the drums and bass in New Wave are computer generated, and damn straight that's Alternative. Really? I thought they used actual drums, albeit electronic ones, and bass guitars (a la New Order). Also, I managed to catch an interview with her and KROQ's Stryker, and she seems to be a pretty nice person. Shame, as this song is still horrible. Well yeah, they used drum machines, which while aren't technically computers, they made that computer generated sound. Not to mention Nine Inch Nails is computer-generated as well. But all this machinery making mother music can still be open hearted.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:09:38 GMT -5
Well, Newwave is an 80s thing, and that was three decades before my time, so I'm gonna need your help telling me some genre defining new wave bands. My dad actually has a Time Life CD collection of 80s new wave/modern rock, so despite being too young I still grew up on it. Lots of Alt stations play classic Alt songs on Sundays. Listen to one of those. Really? I thought they used actual drums, albeit electronic ones, and bass guitars (a la New Order). Also, I managed to catch an interview with her and KROQ's Stryker, and she seems to be a pretty nice person. Shame, as this song is still horrible. Well yeah, they used drum machines, which while aren't technically computers, they made that computer generated sound. Not to mention Nine Inch Nails is computer-generated as well. But all this machinery making mother music can still be open hearted. Nine Inch Nails are dark, angry, brutal and angsty. That's different. But seriously, any examples of "new wave" so I can determine?
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:16:16 GMT -5
But seriously, any examples of "new wave" so I can determine? The Smiths, New Order, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Cars, Devo, A Flock of Seagulls, Duran Duran, INXS, The Police, Talking Heads, Tears for Fears, Elvis Costello, Love and Rockets, The Pretenders, Big Audio Dynamite, Eurythmics, Strange Advance, Men Without Hats, Blondie, Squeeze, The Psychadelic Furs, Spoons, Simple Minds, The Go-Go's, The Bangles... Just to name a few.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:19:32 GMT -5
But seriously, any examples of "new wave" so I can determine? The Smiths, New Order, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Cars, Devo, A Flock of Seagulls, Duran Duran, INXS, The Police, Talking Heads, Tears for Fears, Elvis Costello, Love and Rockets, The Pretenders, Big Audio Dynamite, Eurythmics, Strange Advance, Men Without Hats, Blondie, Squeeze, The Psychadelic Furs, Spoons, Simple Minds, The Go-Go's, The Bangles... Just to name a few. I'd call half of them Alternative.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:21:39 GMT -5
The Smiths, New Order, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Cars, Devo, A Flock of Seagulls, Duran Duran, INXS, The Police, Talking Heads, Tears for Fears, Elvis Costello, Love and Rockets, The Pretenders, Big Audio Dynamite, Eurythmics, Strange Advance, Men Without Hats, Blondie, Squeeze, The Psychadelic Furs, Spoons, Simple Minds, The Go-Go's, The Bangles... Just to name a few. I'd call half of them Alternative. Then you'd be half wrong.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:23:40 GMT -5
I'd call half of them Alternative. Then you'd be half wrong. So only one fourth of them are alternative then.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:25:53 GMT -5
Then you'd be half wrong. So only one fourth of them are alternative then. Ironically, if you define Alternative as "music I wouldn't hear on Jack stations", you'd be correct. But at the time, everything from Paula Abdul to The Rolling Stones would get played. It truly was a freeform format.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:26:50 GMT -5
So only one fourth of them are alternative then. Ironically, if you define Alternative as "music I wouldn't hear on Jack stations", you'd be correct. But at the time, everything from Paula Abdul to The Rolling Stones would get played. It truly was a freeform format. What's a Jack station? Is that a Canadian thing?
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:28:59 GMT -5
Ironically, if you define Alternative as "music I wouldn't hear on Jack stations", you'd be correct. But at the time, everything from Paula Abdul to The Rolling Stones would get played. It truly was a freeform format. What's a Jack station? Is that a Canadian thing? Jack stations are usually a mix of classic rock and new wave. They're either a joy to listen to or a chore.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:29:11 GMT -5
I do love The Smiths, The Cure (who aren't a new wave band), INXS, Depeche Mode, Talking Heads, Tears, Squeeze and The Psychedelic Furs, but there is no way in hell that The Go-Gos, The Bangles, Blondie, Men Without Hats for gods sake could be considered alternative rock.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:32:11 GMT -5
I do love The Smiths, The Cure (who aren't a new wave band), INXS, Depeche Mode, Talking Heads, Tears, Squeeze and The Psychedelic Furs, but there is no way in hell that The Go-Gos, The Bangles, Blondie, Men Without Hats for gods sake could be considered alternative rock. Ever listen to The Edge in Toronto on Sundays?
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:33:40 GMT -5
I do love The Smiths, The Cure (who aren't a new wave band), INXS, Depeche Mode, Talking Heads, Tears, Squeeze and The Psychedelic Furs, but there is no way in hell that The Go-Gos, The Bangles, Blondie, Men Without Hats for gods sake could be considered alternative rock. Ever listen to The Edge in Toronto on Sundays? Never heard of it. I listen to 104.5 Philly, which balances heavy oldies with newer softies.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 17:36:41 GMT -5
Ever listen to The Edge in Toronto on Sundays? Never heard of it. I listen to 104.5 Philly, which balances heavy oldies with newer softies. It's Canada's equivalent to KROQ, to put in perspective. And on Sundays they play all of these bands.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 17:38:24 GMT -5
Never heard of it. I listen to 104.5 Philly, which balances heavy oldies with newer softies. It's Canada's equivalent to KROQ, to put in perspective. And on Sundays they play all of these bands. Well yeah they can get away with that 30 years later but still
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Post by Cody on Jul 30, 2014 17:59:16 GMT -5
It's Canada's equivalent to KROQ, to put in perspective. And on Sundays they play all of these bands. Well yeah they can get away with that 30 years later but still They don't "get away with it", they thrive off of it. And lol at the "I'd call only half of them alternative" statement. These are the bands you can thank for the existence of alternative radio. It's such a shame so many young Americans (and Canadians, I'm talking people in the Western Hemisphere) grow up under the impression that Nirvana invented alternative rock music.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:17:27 GMT -5
Well yeah they can get away with that 30 years later but still They don't "get away with it", they thrive off of it. And lol at the "I'd call only half of them alternative" statement. These are the bands you can thank for the existence of alternative radio. It's such a shame so many young Americans (and Canadians, I'm talking people in the Western Hemisphere) grow up under the impression that Nirvana invented alternative rock music. Well, I have to thank all of those bands, right? Well, if we separate them, then: ALTERNATIVEThe Smiths, New Order, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Cars, Devo, A Flock of Seagulls, INXS, The Police, Talking Heads, Tears for Fears, Elvis Costello, The Pretenders, Big Audio Dynamite, Squeeze, The Psychedelic Furs (17) NOT ALTERNATIVE
Duran Duran, Eurythmics, Men Without Hats, Blondie, The Go-Go's, The Bangles (7) ON THE FENCESimple Minds (1) NEVER HEARD OF Love and Rockets, Strange Advance, Spoons, (3) That's 17/28, a little less than half aren't. My math was inocrrect.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:22:46 GMT -5
Also, Nirvana did not invent alternative rock music, in fact they're the worst grunge band and Alice in Chains whooped their ass in every single aspect. They were darker, moodier, more depressed and used a hell of a lot more drugs than Nirvana did. Do you not hear the pain in Layne's voice on the entire Dirt album? It's such an honest record, full of sadness, addiction, depression, and I can relate to that. He wanted to die, he knew he was going to die, but the drugs were too much for him to handle. I feel more emotional connection to the Chains than I ever did with Nirvana, so that's that.
Also, as for them 'inventing' alternative rock, that's complete horse s**t. If it weren't for punk, post-punk and hardcore punk, the genre never would have existed. The biggest influence on alt-rock were bands like the Ramones, Black Flag, Minor Threat, The Cure, Husker Du, Joy Division, Television, The Replacements and Fugazi. The Washington DC scene was huge, fucking huge, and it also gave birth to the first wave of emo, short for emocore, short for emotive hardcore punk. Jawbreaker, Sunny Day Real Estate, American Football, Braid, Cap'n Jazz, etc. The first alternative rock band is hard to choose, but I'd say R.E.M. were the first to really define the college rock underground of the 80s.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 18:32:07 GMT -5
Are you kidding? Duran Duran and The Bangles even have top 10 Alt hits. Go look yourself.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:35:58 GMT -5
Are you kidding? Duran Duran and The Bangles even have top 10 Alt hits. Go look yourself. Everything went top ten back then. Are you trying to tell me the guys who made "Hungry Like the Wolf" and "Walk Like An Egyptian" are alternative? Come on now.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 18:37:36 GMT -5
Are you kidding? Duran Duran and The Bangles even have top 10 Alt hits. Go look yourself. Everything went top ten back then. In 1993? That was Duran Duran's last top 10 hit.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 18:39:00 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell me the guys who made "Hungry Like the Wolf" and "Walk Like An Egyptian" are alternative? Come on now. Do you know how many Alt stations with retro shows play "Hungry Like the Wolf"? Every single one of them.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:42:03 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell me the guys who made "Hungry Like the Wolf" and "Walk Like An Egyptian" are alternative? Come on now. Do you know how many Alt stations with retro shows play "Hungry Like the Wolf"? Every single one of them. Well then, I'll be damned.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:42:51 GMT -5
Everything went top ten back then. In 1993? That was Duran Duran's last top 10 hit. Well, they only had one Top 10 hit, and it was with their most Alternative song. Then again, there's a reason why the first few years of the Alternative chart were some of the worst in its history.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 18:48:21 GMT -5
In 1993? That was Duran Duran's last top 10 hit. Well, they only had one Top 10 hit, so... Well, the Alt chart didn't exist until 1988, which by then they were well established and had their biggest hits. It's like saying Led Zeppelin weren't a big act because the Rock chart didn't exist yet. Edit: You gotta stop editing your posts after I quote them, lol.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:51:54 GMT -5
Well, they only had one Top 10 hit, so... Well, the Alt chart didn't exist until 1988, which by then they were well established and had their biggest hits. It's like saying Led Zeppelin weren't a big act because the Rock chart didn't exist yet. Makes enough sense, I suppose Edit: You gotta stop editing your posts after I quote them, lol.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 18:53:02 GMT -5
Then by that case, more punk should have charted in the early days, and it didn't.
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