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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 19:12:47 GMT -5
Mainstream punk was pretty much dead until Green Day and The Offspring. By that logic, more post-grunge should be charting today.
Besides, Ramones charted anyway.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 19:23:11 GMT -5
Mainstream punk was pretty much dead until Green Day and The Offspring. By that logic, more post-grunge should be charting today. Besides, Ramones charted anyway. True, true, and I do give them credit for that. I keep forgetting that by '88, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Minutemen, Husker Du and Dead Kennedys had already all broken up. Although I do find it funny that Cody thinks Nirvana invented alternative rock.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 19:28:16 GMT -5
Mainstream punk was pretty much dead until Green Day and The Offspring. By that logic, more post-grunge should be charting today. Besides, Ramones charted anyway. True, true, and I do give them credit for that. I keep forgetting that by '88, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Minutemen, Husker Du and Dead Kennedys had already all broken up. We had All and Circle Jerks though. But yeah, pretty dry spell. Social Distortion and Billy Idol charted as well, depending on your definition of punk.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 19:29:50 GMT -5
True, true, and I do give them credit for that. I keep forgetting that by '88, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Minutemen, Husker Du and Dead Kennedys had already all broken up. We had All and Circle Jerks though. But yeah, pretty dry spell. Social Distortion and Billy Idol charted as well, depending on your definition of punk. s**t, I forgot about Social D. One of my all time favorites. I own a copy of their album because in 2014, a 14 year old kid still buys CDs. There's no excuse for not letting "Let It Be Me", "Ball and Chain", "Ring of Fire" and "Cold Feelings" make top ten. Although I'd argue I Was Wrong became a major hit because of Green Day. And "Machine Gun Blues" went top ten three years ago when punk was nonexistent.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 19:49:13 GMT -5
Although I'd argue I Was Wrong became a major hit because of Green Day. And "Machine Gun Blues" went top ten three years ago when punk was nonexistent the chart was in one of its best years in history.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 20:00:28 GMT -5
Although I'd argue I Was Wrong became a major hit because of Green Day. And "Machine Gun Blues" went top ten three years ago when punk was nonexistent the chart was in one of its best years in history. So we can agree on something, at least.
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Post by American Idiot on Jul 30, 2014 21:41:23 GMT -5
I don't have much to input, but this is one hell of an epic discussion you guys are having here. Don't let anyone say you don't know shit about rock music history.
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Post by friday on Jul 30, 2014 21:43:13 GMT -5
Are you trying to tell me the guys who made "Hungry Like the Wolf" and "Walk Like An Egyptian" are alternative? Come on now. Well, if you want to judge those bands by something other than their biggest hits:
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 21:46:50 GMT -5
Eh, I wouldn't say I liked either of them.
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Post by Cody on Jul 30, 2014 22:02:01 GMT -5
Mainstream punk was pretty much dead until Green Day and The Offspring. By that logic, more post-grunge should be charting today. Besides, Ramones charted anyway. Although I do find it funny that Cody thinks Nirvana invented alternative rock. Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I said
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 22:02:58 GMT -5
Although I do find it funny that Cody thinks Nirvana invented alternative rock. Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I said Yeah, lemme find the exact quote.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 22:05:15 GMT -5
It's such a shame so many young Americans (and Canadians, I'm talking people in the Western Hemisphere) grow up under the impression that Nirvana invented alternative rock music. So I made a whole argument basically just reiterating what you said? Jeez... I still stand by my statement about Alice in Chains being better songwriters. They were more relatable and every word Layne said was full of pain and melancholic emotion. The riffs were sludgier and doomier, while Jerry Cantrell's harmonies were wonderful.
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Post by Cody on Jul 30, 2014 22:06:27 GMT -5
It's such a shame so many young Americans (and Canadians, I'm talking people in the Western Hemisphere) grow up under the impression that Nirvana invented alternative rock music. So I made a whole argument basically just reiterating what you said? Jeez... I still stand by my statement about Alice in Chains being better songwriters. They were more relatable and every word Layne said was full of pain and melancholic emotion. The riffs were sludgier and doomier, while Jerry Cantrell's harmonies were wonderful. I wasn't referring to myself as part of that group.
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 22:09:22 GMT -5
I still stand by my statement about Alice in Chains being better songwriters. They were more relatable and every word Layne said was full of pain and melancholic emotion. The riffs were sludgier and doomier, while Jerry Cantrell's harmonies were wonderful. Dude, arguing about Alice in Chains and Nirvana is like arguing about The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. Obviously The Beatles were better.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 22:10:17 GMT -5
So I made a whole argument basically just reiterating what you said? Jeez... I still stand by my statement about Alice in Chains being better songwriters. They were more relatable and every word Layne said was full of pain and melancholic emotion. The riffs were sludgier and doomier, while Jerry Cantrell's harmonies were wonderful. I wasn't referring to myself as part of that group. Well, I didn't say Nirvana invented alternative rock.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 30, 2014 22:10:47 GMT -5
I still stand by my statement about Alice in Chains being better songwriters. They were more relatable and every word Layne said was full of pain and melancholic emotion. The riffs were sludgier and doomier, while Jerry Cantrell's harmonies were wonderful. Dude, arguing about Alice in Chains and Nirvana is like arguing about The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. Obviously The Beatles were better. So, I'm not sure whose side you're on right now...
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Post by Pipa on Jul 30, 2014 22:13:38 GMT -5
Dude, arguing about Alice in Chains and Nirvana is like arguing about The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. Obviously The Beatles were better. So, I'm not sure whose side you're on right now... I was just being tongue in cheek there. My point is, no one's gonna win, they both have their own strengths. But I still have this same argument with my friends between AC/DC and Metallica...
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Post by shakermaker on Jul 31, 2014 5:24:46 GMT -5
In 1993? That was Duran Duran's last top 10 hit. Well, they only had one Top 10 hit, and it was with their most Alternative song. Then again, there's a reason why the first few years of the Alternative chart were some of the worst in its history. I'd argue that those were some of the best years in the alternative chart's history. Tons of diversity and a huge influx of critically-acclaimed artists all managing to score major hits on the chart, getting them the American exposure that they wouldn't have gotten on the more commercial-oriented mainstream rock chart. Lots of quality music hitting the top ten - New Order, Stone Roses, The Replacements, Morrissey, The Cure, The Ocean Blue, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Pixies, The B-52's, P-Furs, Lou Reed, Violent Femmes, They Might Be Giants, the list goes on - all huge in alternative's early years, and all amazing artists. Arguably some of the artists (Duran Duran, Pet Shop Boys, Bangles, Go-Gos, UB40, etc.) who were hitting the chart in these days wouldn't be considered "alternative rock" in a strict sense, but they most certainly paved the way for the wave of alternative artists that were to come and even still manage to get airplay on my local alt station during the weekly 80s/90s specials. In fact, in the earliest incarnations of the alternative chart from 1984-88 (stuff like CMJ and Gavin Report's charts), published prior to Billboard's, you would regularly spot those artists, along with the likes of Depeche Mode, Tears for Fears, Thompson Twins and other stuff that also crossed over to pop (even a-ha's "Take on Me" hit the Gavin alternative chart). Either way, alternative radio has never been purely an alternative rock format, but as previously mentioned a general all-genre format for music contrary to the mainstream pop sound, which is why all the way up to today a good portion of reggae, hip hop, dance, worldbeat, and other non-rock music manages to break through into the chart. Ofra Haza's "Im nin'alu" (#18 alt in 1988), for example, is by no means a rock song, but it's still alternative in the sense that it wouldn't fit in with standard pop music dominating radio airwaves at its time (Bobby Brown, New Kids on the Block, Milli Vanilli, etc.), in the same way I can concede that the Tove Lo song (as much as I dislike it) could be classified as alternative if you'd put it side-by-side with what generally makes up today's pop sound (Katy Perry, Nicki Minaj, One Direction, etc.).
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Post by Cody on Jul 31, 2014 7:03:06 GMT -5
In 1993? That was Duran Duran's last top 10 hit. Then again, there's a reason why the first few years of the Alternative chart were some of the worst in its history. Oh wow. According to you maybe. You need to stop presenting your opinion as if it's fact. You're in a minority once again with that statement.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 8:52:10 GMT -5
Then again, there's a reason why the first few years of the Alternative chart were some of the worst in its history. Oh wow. According to you maybe. You need to stop presenting your opinion as if it's fact. You're in a minority once again with that statement. We'll obviously that's an opinion
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 8:53:25 GMT -5
And Habits is not alternative to pop music, it sounds just like a regular pop song.
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Post by Cody on Jul 31, 2014 10:28:04 GMT -5
Oh wow. According to you maybe. You need to stop presenting your opinion as if it's fact. You're in a minority once again with that statement. We'll obviously that's an opinion No, not "obviously." There's nothing in that sentence that indicates to anyone that you're just speaking your opinion. Say "There's a reason why I believe the early years of alternative are some of the worst in its history" or something along those lines. You're making it sound like you legitimately believe that the popular belief is the same as what you're trying to convey. It obviously isn't, and in fact, your opinion contradicts fact, considering 80s alternative was a BIG F-ING DEAL and because it still gets a considerable amount of attention today. Those bands were more successful than your average 00s post-grunge band, FYI. And Habits is not alternative to pop music, it sounds just like a regular pop song. There's nothing else on the pop charts similar to "Habits" There's no EDM in it, nor does she sound anything like any other common female pop star.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 10:35:27 GMT -5
And Habits is not alternative to pop music, it sounds just like a regular pop song. There's nothing else on the pop charts similar to "Habits" There's no EDM in it, nor does she sound anything like any other common female pop star. So now you're implying that music needs EDM to be considered pop. Ok then. And this sounds like lots of things by common female pop stars in MY OPINION.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 18:48:40 GMT -5
Although to be honest, I was fine with the indie pop direction before I joined this site, and I used to not mind it.
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Post by Cody on Jul 31, 2014 18:56:02 GMT -5
Although to be honest, I was fine with the indie pop direction before I joined this site, and I used to not mind it. So why don't you like the indie pop direction now then? Is it because other people like it?
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 18:59:33 GMT -5
Although to be honest, I was fine with the indie pop direction before I joined this site, and I used to not mind it. So why don't you like the indie pop direction now then? Is it because other people like it? I didn't realize that the songs were too poppy until I joined this site. I didn't realize that it was unfair for lead singles to flop until I joined this site. I used to just watch videos of the Billboard charts as a countdown, and even if I hated a few songs, I thought it was good in general. Then I joined here, and I realized the horror in established bands flopping, and poppy music playing.
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Post by Cody on Jul 31, 2014 19:39:04 GMT -5
So why don't you like the indie pop direction now then? Is it because other people like it? I didn't realize that the songs were too poppy until I joined this site. I didn't realize that it was unfair for lead singles to flop until I joined this site. I used to just watch videos of the Billboard charts as a countdown, and even if I hated a few songs, I thought it was good in general. Then I joined here, and I realized the horror in established bands flopping, and poppy music playing. :| None of this really makes sense. What the hell does Pulse have to do with that?
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 19:43:58 GMT -5
I didn't realize that the songs were too poppy until I joined this site. I didn't realize that it was unfair for lead singles to flop until I joined this site. I used to just watch videos of the Billboard charts as a countdown, and even if I hated a few songs, I thought it was good in general. Then I joined here, and I realized the horror in established bands flopping, and poppy music playing. :| None of this really makes sense. What the hell does Pulse have to do with that? You guys told me about it.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Jul 31, 2014 20:56:45 GMT -5
Very interesting conversion. I agree with just about everything about New Wave roots morphing into alt rock. Too bad I came here late. IMOP, Tove Lo is not pop. It's alternative. It's not doing well on Pop nor even Hot AC charts, so listeners are not ready to accept "Habits" as Pop. IMOP, Pop is more than just the instruments they use. It's also about the mood and atmosphere of the song. especially when it pertains to the more "moodier" female alt tracks. It seesm the direction that most alt female acts are going these days. At least its the direction they can safely go into and still be concidered more alt Rock than Pop. another thing I concider is that for the most part, most pop songs, now adays are a joke. More like the flavour of the moment than a long lasting musical composition , so it's understandable that when it comes to acts like Lorde, Tove Lo, Meg Myers and even Lana Del Rey, they would prefer thier record companies pitch thier music to Alt, Hot Ac or AAA radio ststions before pop stations. Having a crossover Pop hit doesn't hurt these' artists pockets, but in the long run, I think it does hurt thier credebility.
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 31, 2014 20:58:32 GMT -5
Very interesting conversion. I agree with just about everything about New Wave roots morphing into alt rock. Too bad I came here late. IMOP, Tove Lo is not pop. It's alternative. It's not doing well on Pop nor even Hot AC charts, so listeners are not ready to accept "Habits" as Pop. IMOP, Pop is more than just the instruments they use. It's also about the mood and atmosphere of the song. especially when it pertains to the more "moodier" female alt tracks. It seesm the direction that most alt female acts are going these days. At least its the direction they can safely go into and still be concidered more alt Rock than Pop. another thing I concider is that for the most part, most pop songs, now adays are a joke. More like the flavour of the moment than a long lasting musical composition , so it's understandable that when it comes to acts like Lorde, Tove Lo, Meg Myers and even Lana Del Rey, they would prefer thier record companies pitch thier music to Alt, Hot Ac or AAA radio ststions before pop stations. Having a crossover Pop hit doesn't hurt these' artists pockets, but in the long run, I think it does hurt thier credebility. But this song doesn't give off a dark atmosphere.
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