Clauss
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Post by Clauss on Oct 12, 2014 20:13:42 GMT -5
Billboard said 750k I do think there isn't enough promo, but I'm starting to think that they want consistent sales as the duration of the era. I believe they want 5 successful pop singles
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 12, 2014 20:25:53 GMT -5
So these live performances are...not good. Trying to sing with that level of choreography isn't easy, but it's something she needs to figure out. And it's kind of annoying that she still isn't even attempting to sing during the chorus.
Of course - the audio seems way out of sync with her visual (case-in-point: the first line of the 2nd verse). Was this a bad lip-sync job or is there something wrong with the upload?
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Oct 12, 2014 20:27:15 GMT -5
Red sold 1.2 million copies. That's a 450k difference, assuming she's selling that much. (Everyone from that list actually sold less than what they predicted.)
750K is nothing to cry over, and I do understand that over saturation never works for anybody, but they've literally gone overboard for every single release in terms of promotion since her debut...but this one, and when this is supposed to be her big Pop break out~, you'd think that they'd put more effort into their marketing strategy than to get people over to her house to play them the record and forbid them from talking about it afterwards. Successful singles are easier to achieve than sales, especially when Max Martin is on board, so I don't think she'll have any issues with that, but if they're compromising country fans sales and country exposure, they should balance it out with...more Pop exposure, not less? This era just feels kind of flat so far, like it hasn't been aggressive. I just don't know who in their right mind thinks that an instagram post to "promote" a promo single as opposed to a full blown GMA shout out is more effective. It's just all been more quiet in the states. Taylor Swift's new record drops in 2 weeks and we've seen her on TV one time the past 2 months. It's weird, you know?
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 12, 2014 20:54:08 GMT -5
Red sold 1.2 million copies. That's a 450k difference, assuming she's selling that much. (Everyone from that list actually sold less than what they predicted.) 750K is nothing to cry over, and I do understand that over saturation never works for anybody, but they've literally gone overboard for every single release in terms of promotion since her debut...but this one, and when this is supposed to be her big Pop break out~, you'd think that they'd put more effort into their marketing strategy than to get people over to her house to play them the record and forbid them from talking about it afterwards. Successful singles are easier to achieve than sales, especially when Max Martin is on board, so I don't think she'll have any issues with that, but if they're compromising country fans sales and country exposure, they should balance it out with...more Pop exposure, not less? This era just feels kind of flat so far, like it hasn't been aggressive. I just don't know who in their right mind thinks that an instagram post to "promote" a promo single as opposed to a full blown GMA shout out is more effective. It's just all been more quiet in the states. Taylor Swift's new record drops in 2 weeks and we've seen her on TV one time the past 2 months. It's weird, you know? You hit the nail on the head there. We've seen SO SO SO many examples to prove that social media buzz does not guarantee album sales, TV ratings, box office dollars, etc. For all the talk about the rise of social, it's still traditional media that seems to more notably move the needle when it comes to hard metrics. The only real example of the Internet "winning" is the Beyonce album, but that was a special case that turned the album release into an event (and thus made people who weren't necessarily Beyonce album buyers take notice of the album). It's patently absurd that Taylor did a press circuit to promote the live stream at which she would *announce* her new album but not one to promote the actual album. Literally EVERY talk show would kill to have her, so where is she? You're telling me SNL, which has been posting terrible ratings thus far this season, would have said no to her doing a double-duty on the 25th?
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Oct 12, 2014 22:59:00 GMT -5
lol wait? ooop.
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Clauss
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Post by Clauss on Oct 12, 2014 23:04:08 GMT -5
They readed you haha
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 12, 2014 23:15:20 GMT -5
Dammnnnnnnnnnnnn and I was tryna sleep in.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Oct 13, 2014 0:12:58 GMT -5
Really? She's done so much... Taylor fans are so ungrateful. She could do soooo much and get a top 10 peak and you guys would complain, it's unbelievable lol She's had one major appearance in the US in two months, we are two weeks away from the release of 1989 and we don't even know the track listing? This time for Red, we had three promo singles, each one of them promoted on Good Morning America, and a Papa John's deal which promoted the record on every pizza sold around the country. Their marketing "strategy" is to invite a few fans to her house, play them the record, and not let them talk about it online afterwards. It's just bizarre. The only confirmed promo spot for the week of release is GMA and Subway is giving you a cup with her face on it, only if you buy the mega large sized drink. Like...? It's not about being ungrateful, there's just definitely a lot more they could have done and should be doing for this release IMO. Agreed on all points. I beileve at thie time we even knew her promotional schedule for release week. All there is a rumors at the moment for Jimmy Kimmel Live,SNL and Late Show With David Letterman. None of them confirmed at all. SNL on October 25th is Jim Carrey and Iggy.We don't know if Taylor has any of the November slots at all yet. Also no tracklisting 2 weeks until release,This album is bound to leak on the net next week and if the leak comes before the tracklisting it would be embarrassing. I have no idea why with every recent Taylor album,they take so long to announce the tracklisting,"Red" had the same problem. I remember "Speak Now" and "Fearless" the tracklists were announced way earlier. If Taylor is at the MTV EMAs in November,could mean no Taylor SNL appearance in November. Taylor's The X Factor UK performance just seemed somewhat off somewhat compared to the other performances.So far the Best was Le Grand Journal and IheartRadio.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 13, 2014 0:57:18 GMT -5
I feel like there are two motivations behind the tracklisting thing:
-- Probably has a minor deterrent effect on leaks (particularly if it were the tracks--rather than the full album cut--that started to circulate)
-- Also allows her to make a big deal out of "announcing" the tracklist, whether on a talk show or even just on her Twitter/Insta. The surprise element worked with Red (or, at least, we have no evidence to say it didn't work), but we saw it have a detrimental effect this time.
If you remember, "Shake it Off" had a really poor (by Taylor standards) first day/two days, which resulted in that 425-450K projection. It ended up picking up midweek to get to a really strong 500K+ first week and eventually overtook WANEGBT as far as sales go. I feel like awareness had to play into that. I can't imagine roughly 100K "Shake it Off" buyers were aware the song came out on Monday but hated it until Thursday/Friday when they suddenly decided they liked it and needed to buy.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Oct 13, 2014 1:58:56 GMT -5
We almost down to the wire in terms of Album release,14 Days. "Red" leaked on a Wednesday before release date. "Speak Now" leaked on a Thursday before release date.If the label wants to do it right,They release the tracklisting this week.It makes sense to. A lot of us have already pre-ordered our Deluxe and Standard versions of the album which we will have in our hands in 2 weeks time. Maybe we could get a tracklist on GMA today *crossed fingers for that*.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Oct 13, 2014 8:42:18 GMT -5
POP: 2 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 17531 17076 455 110.021
+8 Spins -71 Bullet -0.121 Audience
HOT AC: 1 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 6805 6620 185 45.709
+30 Spins +20 Bullet +0.177 Audience
AC: 7 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 2034 1679 355 12.099
+62 Spins +42 Bullet +0.295 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 25 23 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 1419 1263 156 8.690
+21 Spins -17 Bullet +0.065 Audience
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Clauss
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Post by Clauss on Oct 13, 2014 14:19:35 GMT -5
I believe taylor has on lock #1 next week cause AATB is crushing down itunes
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Oct 14, 2014 5:27:17 GMT -5
POP: 2 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 17529 17133 396 110.004
-2 Spins -59 Bullet -0.017 Audience
HOT AC: 1 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 6851 6645 206 45.940
+46 Spins +21 Bullet +0.231 Audience
AC: 7 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 2086 1715 371 12.389
+52 Spins +16 Bullet +0.290 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 24 21 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 1451 1290 161 8.744
+32 Spins +5 Bullet +0.054 Audience
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Oct 14, 2014 12:43:08 GMT -5
I think they're not wanting too much, too soon on the promotion front. Yes, her opening week will take a hit but she will still be the biggest opening week for a female of the year so...people can't say too much.
She is a lot more of a personality type star than someone like Katy Perry who can go 5-6 singles without people feeling overwhelmed by the persona they're hearing. Compared to other pop stars, the connotations attached to the name "Taylor Swift" are bigger, and not all of them are positive. If Taylor goes HAM on promotion from day 1 until the end of the era, people are going to burn out on her (except her die hard fans that will buy tour tickets).
Playing it cool until the second single is a good move and sets the era up for legs. She will already have captured her immediate market of fans, and then have the chance to let the GP see she has an album out and let them be immersed in it later on.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Oct 15, 2014 6:45:37 GMT -5
POP: 2 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 17487 17205 282 109.439
-42 Spins -114 Bullet -0.565 Audience
HOT AC: 1 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 6870 6673 197 46.036
+19 Spins -9 Bullet +0.096 Audience
AC: 7 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 2182 1742 440 12.770
+96 Spins +69 Bullet +0.381 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 24 21 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 1480 1298 182 8.824
+29 Spins +21 Bullet +0.080 Audience
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Clauss
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Post by Clauss on Oct 15, 2014 10:49:43 GMT -5
SIO's 8th week: 171k Total: 2366k
WANEGBT's 8th week: 149k Total: 2207k
Difference: +6.8%(+0.1% from last week)
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Kinney
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Post by Kinney on Oct 15, 2014 16:55:49 GMT -5
Increasing her digital sales during a time when they're declining in general in pretty damn incredible. I thought this would be bigger than WANEGBT, but not THIS much bigger (especially worldwide).
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Oct 15, 2014 20:31:03 GMT -5
If this bitch doesn't open with a million I'm jumping ship. None's here for a Katy Perry type of singles artist.
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Post by josh on Oct 15, 2014 20:49:56 GMT -5
mte
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Oct 16, 2014 8:30:03 GMT -5
POP: 2 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 17500 17315 185 108.867
+13 Spins -97 Bullet -0.572 Audience
HOT AC: 1 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 6878 6687 191 46.050
+8 Spins -6 Bullet +0.014 Audience
AC: 6 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 2219 1835 384 12.935
+37 Spins -56 Bullet +0.165 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 24 21 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 1493 1323 170 8.903
+13 Spins -12 Bullet +0.079 Audience
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Oct 17, 2014 5:24:56 GMT -5
POP: 2 2 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 17472 17346 126 108.333
-28 Spins -59 Bullet -0.534 Audience
HOT AC: 1 1 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 6856 6703 153 45.810
-22 Spins -38 Bullet -0.240 Audience
AC: 4 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 2257 1896 361 13.284
+38 Spins -23 Bullet +0.349 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 24 21 TAYLOR SWIFT Shake It Off 1507 1337 170 9.020
+14 Spins = Bullet +0.117 Audience
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Oct 17, 2014 7:54:13 GMT -5
Lol. Such a flop. Kidding. Has it ever occurred to anyone that 1989's first week sales could already put it at the top of the best selling release of the year? No album released this year has crossed the million mark. What kind of a feat would that be?
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 17, 2014 11:02:41 GMT -5
Increasing her digital sales during a time when they're declining in general in pretty damn incredible. I thought this would be bigger than WANEGBT, but not THIS much bigger (especially worldwide). Not disagreeing that the performance is incredible (particularly in the current US market), but note that increasing her worldwide appeal was a huge benefit/driver for taking more of a pop approach to this album. Given that transformation in style, it would have been a major disappointment if this DIDN'T *obliterate* WANEGBT globally.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 17, 2014 12:41:38 GMT -5
Increasing her digital sales during a time when they're declining in general in pretty damn incredible. I thought this would be bigger than WANEGBT, but not THIS much bigger (especially worldwide). it would have been a major disappointment if this DIDN'T *obliterate* WANEGBT globally. Naw. "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" was that pure pop song with nothing but pop origins (aka no remix) made with intent to switch up her sound and image a bit and was then delievered globally with intent to expand and cement her success on the broader scale. She has been marketed World Wide as a pop artist for a minute now (it's only within the U.S. that things have shifted in any noteable way with the release of "Shake It Off"). So, no, there was no "obliterate or fail" mentality around this single in regard to global success.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 17, 2014 13:01:35 GMT -5
it would have been a major disappointment if this DIDN'T *obliterate* WANEGBT globally. Naw. "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" was that pure pop song with nothing but pop origins (aka no remix) made with intent to switch up her sound and image a bit and was then delievered globally with intent to expand and cement her success on the broader scale. She has been marketed World Wide as a pop artist for a minute now (it's only within the U.S. that things have shifted in any noteable way with the release of "Shake It Off"). So, no, there was no "obliterate or fail" mentality around this single in regard to global success. Naw. - There is no listening to We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together--with its lyrics, instrumentation and production--and think it's "as pop" as Shake it Off. People referred to it as pure pop because it can't in good faith be called a country song, but it was nowhere near as slick, trendy or departed from her musical roots as Shake it Off. I Knew You Were Trouble is closer to a pure pop mold, but We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together could realistically have slid into one of her earlier albums. Shake it Off definitely could not have. - From a business standpoint, "Shake it Off" had to compensate for alienation of country radio--and thus lost engagement with country fans--by expanding her base in the pop world. The bigger opportunity for doing that is internationally, as even her first clear "pop" songs (from Red) still left a little bit of room for growth. This is a more legitimate pop offering and thus more ripe for international consumption. WANEGBT did extremely well in international markets because, as you correctly state, Taylor Swift is has some global acceptance as a pop star, and her music is accepted as pop. But to suggest that SIO was not packaged with the intent of notably expanding her pop cachet is to suggest that she and her label were not looking at this as a sustenance or growth effort (since the country abandonment on its own risks a net loss), which is absurd. (And, by the way, growth doesn't have to = more sales. We know the market is different in 2014, so they might not be expecting as many album sales. Growth, in this case, = declining at a slower pace than the market) - From a logical standpoint, now that she's publicly departed country, she no longer has to include hokey, "down home" elements (lyrics, instruments, etc) in her songs. That frees her to be as unabashedly and commercially pop as possible, which naturally should result in more sales from pop buyers (and her global audience is going to be a pop audience).
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Oct 17, 2014 13:21:55 GMT -5
Whatever US sales she may lose from not carrying over her country fans tot his project will be more than made up for with sales in countries in continental Europe that have only barely given her a chance in the past. Her star has really never been much brighter in America, even if her sales are lower relative to her past success.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 17, 2014 13:32:12 GMT -5
Spin the "degree" of "popness" all you like, there was nothing not pop about "We Are Never Getting Back Together" (not even a country remix made the song any less pop). It also catered to trends and radio, just as much as "Shake It Off". Furthermore, it is a tad, delusional, to think it could have "slid into" ANY of her pre-Red albums easily and not sound completely out of place. I also don't think the label or Taylor's first intent was to necessarily "expand" her pop appeal (at least on the global level), so much as to nurture/feed it (to merely continue the success she has found already). Singles released internationally generally featured remixed pop instrumentation, so she isn't "transitioning" sounds abroad (not as if she was releasing a ton of her "countrier" material outside the U.S.). I'm sure they WANT higher peaks/sales this time around (like any label or artist), but I don't believe there was any deliberate relation between that and her country pop to full blown pop transition. As I said before, she has been a pop artist internationally for some time; "Shake It Off" isn't as jarring or unexpected outside the U.S. I think.
Also, Taylor stated numerous times this record was a full-blown pop album because it felt right to her. Honestly, I think at the end of the day she made the record SHE wanted and cut her loses (aka country audiences). I think they knew there was not much they could do about country audiences, but didn't automatically feel the need to overcompensate (as you hint at), because they knew it would still sell (especially given the success of the pop-leaning Red).
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Oct 17, 2014 14:01:26 GMT -5
So is it your opinion that if Taylor had released Shake it Off and Out of the Woods exactly as they are but not declared this a "pop album," nobody would have discussed a transformation in sound?
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Oct 17, 2014 14:29:36 GMT -5
I definitely foresee this returning to #1 before Bang Bang or Animals come to take the top spot.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 17, 2014 15:54:04 GMT -5
So is it your opinion that if Taylor had released Shake it Off and Out of the Woods exactly as they are but not declared this a "pop album," nobody would have discussed a transformation in sound? "We Are Never Getting Back Together", "State of Grace" and "I Knew You Were Trouble" were all released prior to their respective album, therefor the "transformation of sound discussion" had already been had. This time around I don't think people would have found the sound of those two songs surprising (regardless of any announcement). The 80s element is more surprising than the fact that they're pop songs imo.
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