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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Jun 9, 2015 23:29:05 GMT -5
Vote: Kunt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 23:46:52 GMT -5
1. Day 1 is always the hardest for precisely this reason, there is usually very little to go on. There have been some games where I've looked back in retrospect and thought, "oh dang that was a tell," but they're usually small things that are only noticeable once you have more to add them up with. We usually fall on lack of activity not because of thinking it could be a scum tell, but due to those people not being around to put up a fight and being too frustrated to find another way to reach a majority vote. But the strategy rarely works, mainly b/c even if there is an inactive scum that we (town) zoom in on, the other scum teammates will typically manage to shift attention to some other poor inactive sucker while yelling at their guy to get his ass in here and say something already.
There's really just no good solution for scum hunting on Day 1, but out of a handful of sucky options probably the best one is just hyper-analyzing everyone's comments, looking for any small tells or connections to other players (or conversely, distance between players**), etc. Will there be much to review? Unlikely, but at least that would be us putting in some effort instead of just lazily falling back on inactivity.
2. Extensions are an absolute last resort that should be saved for as late in the game as possible, particularly if we are in a MYLO or LYLO situation.
3. Any kind of questions geared to get us thinking and analyzing are a good start, so even these are on the right track. Other things we can do...hmm. I hate not having great answers to this, but really we just need to do the things that many of us did not do in previous games - pay attention, re-read the thread to look for things we may have missed, those are the two most basic things. The night kills can be clues, but they're not supposed to be the main things we focus on, and I think that is something many people never quite grasped (self included, at times).
**I want to clarify my connection/distancing comment because I think this is important to keep in mind - while connections are relevant, and sometimes scum players slip up and link themselves too closely to each other, we also have to be careful to look out for "one way streets." Scum will sometimes purposely try to subtly 'create' connections with different town players. This can be for two reasons:
a) if there is a town player whom all the other town players really trust, scum wants to be associated with that player and convince that player that they are also town (in turn the other townies put their faith in the trusted player's wrong read) b) if one of the scum get caught, they hope that town looks back at the scum player's comments, immediately zooms in on that fake connection, and goes for the mislynch the next day
Meanwhile, they are trying their best not to seem connected to each other, else they will quickly fall like dominos. So they struggle to find the balance between not communicating with each other too much in the game thread, but not avoiding each other so much that it becomes just as obvious.
There are 12 of us right? So that would be 3 scum, or 4? I forgot whether the preferred balance was 25% scum or 33%. There may not be a definitive answer to that until we've gotten to day three or four but that is something to keep in mind for knowing if we are in a MYLO/LYLO situation, and also for whether or not we have an independent in the game. 3 scum = probably no indie, 4 = possibly an indie, or if Az was feeling a bit creative, two 2-person scum teams. I don't feel like mathing right now so I'll stop while I'm ahead probably still behind, lol.
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on Jun 10, 2015 0:18:02 GMT -5
1. For me, in absence of suspicion of anyone, I generally have tried to push for voting out the player who seems to be less able to move the game along and help town. If a player just basically comments hmm, yah, that's a great observation, and they don't add their own observation, well that's nice to get some agreement, but it's not so much helping us narrow things down. 2. Fuck extensions. 3. I think moving past RVS is the most challenging part of the game - I think maybe with the exception of the icant meltdown in my first game, I can't (see what I did there?) think of a time there was really anything obvious. It's not like scum is going to come out and say "yoohoo! Here I am!" (which, btw, scum, is totally acceptable and encouraged). As for Cynthia's point B above, I know I used this strategy before. Though shhh, let's not give scum ideas Anyhow Vote: Daryl - because that non-explained Kunt vote felt out of nowhere when we are trying to move out of RVS.
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Jun 10, 2015 0:23:11 GMT -5
Anyhow Vote: Daryl - because that non-explained Kunt vote felt out of nowhere when we are trying to move out of RVS. 1. Because I think Kunt hates me 2. What's RVS? (sorry this is my first time playing this)
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on Jun 10, 2015 0:27:12 GMT -5
1. Uhm, ok, well you two can work that out, but even if he hates you, he could still be town. 2. RVS - Random Voting Stage where people randomly vote for no good reason - your reasoning suggests RVS, which is ok, but it would be nice to move on.
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Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
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Post by Libra on Jun 10, 2015 0:37:30 GMT -5
Going to comment on Cynthia's guesses for town/scum ratio...
I seriously doubt that there's either 4 scum, or two 2-scum teams. Either of those scenarios strike me as being decidedly bad for Town, to the point of being unbalanced regardless of action roles.
Indie? Maybe...though I'm not sure how likely that'd be here, either.
I glanced at the Pulse Mafia Hall of Fame for a better idea on this...looks like only one game with as few as 12 has had an Indie - Pokemon Mafia, which had 9 Town, 2 Mafia, 1 Indie. None with less than 12 had an Indie.
So, I don't think we should bank on there being one. But, 3 scum total does strike me as the most reasonable in a game of 12.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 10, 2015 1:29:42 GMT -5
Queen Drag's questions:
1. While I consider voting someone due to lack of activity to be a bit of a cop-out (unless that person has actively been posting elsewhere and seems to be avoiding the game), at the same time, you have to consider if that inactive player is still useful or a hindrance. An inactive town is still one more number - especially later in the game, but an inactive town player who does little to support his or her role as a town player is unnecessarily drawing attention away from someone who is scum and more active. So Inactives are hindrances by being a distraction and it sucks because it can be used as a method of play for scum. So I'd say if we were near deadline and we have absolutely nothing to go on, voting for someone who isn't active is better than going for a no lynch - at least for day 1. At worst, you're removing a distraction, even if that person were town. At best, you get lucky and lynch scum.
2. I hate using the deadline extension. It annoys me whenever it happens because it's usually because everyone fucked off for the duration of the game-day and then 2 hours before deadline, there's a sudden realization that nothing was done. I think it's good to have available in the event of a last-minute realization or slip-up and you need that extra time to talk it out but other than that, I'm against using extensions. Simply put, don't be lazy when you already have ample time to figure something out.
3. Do what we're doing now. I'd say RVS is probably over at this point.
Regarding the town/scum ratio, isn't 33% the magic number? That would give 4 scum. So could that be a team of 4, a team of 3 with 1 indie, or two teams of 2?
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on Jun 10, 2015 1:54:52 GMT -5
Not sure it is really that helpful to determine percentages, but I'd recommend erring on the side of caution. It's not out of the realm of possibility that we have four scum. Though I think if there is an independent, he may not have the power to kill because two kills a night wouldn't make any sense with a group this small. I would be surprised if there was a four man mafia team though.
Anyhow, I'd rather not dwell too much on this - it's just an easy conversation for scum to jump into because they can participate without taking a stand on anything or anyone.
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Libra
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:)
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Post by Libra on Jun 10, 2015 1:58:13 GMT -5
Going off to bed shortly, but before I do...
Vote: popstop. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like he put more effort into coming up with his character backstory during RVS, than he did in answering Drag's questions - and that rubs me the wrong way. Granted, several of us had answered before him, but there's still this disconnect between the two that strikes me as being off.
That said, I do agree with his point in voting Daryl.
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popstop
6x Platinum Member
Pulse's Summer Intern
Advancing the Mountain Time Zone for all mankind
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Post by popstop on Jun 10, 2015 2:02:56 GMT -5
Because I decided to have fun writing that story, I'm supposed to write a word wall each time now? I've commented several times on this page in addition to answering Drag's questions, which some people have yet to put any effort into.
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Mikey
2x Platinum Member
Mainstream Hater
nothing anyhow
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Post by Mikey on Jun 10, 2015 5:24:26 GMT -5
Answering deep and thorough questions like this isn't my forte, and i'm new to this, but i'll try :)
1. Personally, i think the activeness. However, lack of activity = town imo, since mafias always try to accuse a town as a mafia, and therefore needs to post frequently in the thread.
2. Nope. Later.
3. Giving questions like this is one of the best ways to separate who's town and mafia. We should analyze each other's motives while posting too (Isn't it the purpose of this game lol)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 6:46:00 GMT -5
Anyhow Vote: Daryl - because that non-explained Kunt vote felt out of nowhere when we are trying to move out of RVS. 1. Because I think Kunt hates me lmfao what
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Jun 10, 2015 6:54:54 GMT -5
1. Because I think Kunt hates me lmfao what Irrelevant to the game but I think we had some disagreements in one of my threads in the lounge (the hate your parents one) and when I made a rant in the rants section, you liked Mikey's response. So I had the assumption that you didn't like me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 7:02:31 GMT -5
I like what popstop said about pushing discussion forward being a good indicator. I don't like how aggressive you were with the Daryl vote. He's a new player, so it would make sense for him to vote arbitrarily even during post-RVS proceedings (if that's not a thing, it is now). Don't think Libra is onto anything with the effort in questions though. I think it's more interesting that his answers lined up with basically everyones. josh gave brief answers too, but his seem very distinct by comparison, which is interesting, I guess. Regarding the town/scum ratio, isn't 33% the magic number? That would give 4 scum. So could that be a team of 4, a team of 3 with 1 indie, or two teams of 2? I think it's *30%, but iirc in games this large it's better to assume that the lower percent is used, so ~25%. I hope to god there's not an indie because that trend is so lame (no offense if there is, Az lol) and they're just a pain in the ass in general to deal with in small games like this. I guess we'll find out after N1, but for now I'd say it's a safer bet to assume 3 scum-- be that a team of 3, or a team of 2 and an indie. vote: Mikey because I want to have a vote on someone, and those answers were pretty cut and paste. Granted, a few people's are, but they have more activity to support. FOS: Green Baron, because you should know better than to not have answered the questions by now (referring not only to Drag's, which I get you might be busy, but also when I asked everyone to flavor claim).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 7:03:13 GMT -5
Irrelevant to the game but I think we had some disagreements in one of my threads in the lounge (the hate your parents one) and when I made a rant in the rants section, you liked Mikey's response. So I had the assumption that you didn't like me. I may not like what you post sometimes but I don't hate anyone lol. Too much effort.
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 8:06:48 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 8:37:08 GMT -5
Hi everyone! :) My flavor is Ben Harper, patient. Would've done this sooner but I was at work. Popstop, I'm sorry for your loss. Lahey must pay. :'( When you return please answer my questions when you get the chance today. Surfboardt and you are the only 2 players that haven't done so yet I believe. I'll reveal my reasoning for doing this now since Kunt asked me earlier. I waited until the majority answered because now we have people takes stances on different issues. If their stances change throughout the game it could possibly be a scum tell so I purposely choose the questions to make everyone actually comment. I'm going to keep my vote on Zebra until we hear from him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 8:48:34 GMT -5
Wait a minute I was going over posts, and missed Zebra's.
I'm not a morning person. Unvote: Zebra
The only thing that's really standing out for me now is the little scuffle between Libra and Popstop. I'm not sure if Libra was reaching a bit with his reasoning for voting for popstop so I'm going put an FOS on him for now.
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 8:58:52 GMT -5
Hi everyone! :) My flavor is Ben Harper, patient. Would've done this sooner but I was at work. Popstop, I'm sorry for your loss. Lahey must pay. :'( When you return please answer my questions when you get the chance today. Surfboardt and you are the only 2 players that haven't done so yet I believe. I still haven't. When I'm out of class, I'll try.
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Mikey
2x Platinum Member
Mainstream Hater
nothing anyhow
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Post by Mikey on Jun 10, 2015 9:10:55 GMT -5
what's FOS?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 9:12:00 GMT -5
finger of suspicion. It's when you find something that someone has said to be suspicious but it's not strong enough to put a vote on them.
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 9:14:37 GMT -5
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 9:15:07 GMT -5
no, but really, it's finger of suspension. Means you find someone guilty of giving off scum signs.
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 9:15:22 GMT -5
suspciion*
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Jun 10, 2015 9:15:37 GMT -5
SUSPICION
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 10, 2015 10:54:13 GMT -5
Libra's play so far has been strange a bit to me. I forget really what he's usually like but he seems too eager. Too eager to get the game moving (albeit reasonable - he was pushing from near the very beginning). Too eager in his recent vote with popstop. I thought it was obvious that pop made up that scenario for fun and probably spent more time than he intended writing it.
So definitely FOS on Libra.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 11:24:39 GMT -5
The only thing that's really standing out for me now is the little scuffle between Libra and Popstop. I'm not sure if Libra was reaching a bit with his reasoning for voting for popstop so I'm going put an FOS on him for now. Libra's play so far has been strange a bit to me. I forget really what he's usually like but he seems too eager. Too eager to get the game moving (albeit reasonable - he was pushing from near the very beginning). Too eager in his recent vote with popstop. I thought it was obvious that pop made up that scenario for fun and probably spent more time than he intended writing it. I kind of thought the same thing too, but we only have a day and a half left. Being pushy is the best way to get answers. I think Libra's off base too, but I don't think it's anything suspicious per se. Not that a back and forth between him and popstop would guarantee anything definitive, but it could lead to other statements. Like these, for example. I can't figure out why (as scum) he'd have motivation to be so aggressive on D1, but maybe I'm missing something. Would either of you care to explain?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jun 10, 2015 11:58:36 GMT -5
Good point, I guess. Trying to peg something that isn't there on someone else is something, but being aggressive in wanting the proper game to start sooner isn't really beneficial to scum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:01:44 GMT -5
Good point, I guess. Trying to peg something that isn't there on someone else is something, but being aggressive in wanting the proper game to start sooner isn't really beneficial to scum. So... you didn't really think it through. Kind of convenient you hopped on it as soon as Drag dropped it to. Gonna have to FoS this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:10:28 GMT -5
Actually, that's the best worst lead I've got, so vote: Max.
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