musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 30, 2009 21:46:44 GMT -5
It's not a given for any artist. I do think that, when the album came out, CHR was a lot more friendly to straight-up pop, and that his album has a lot of great songs that could have been hits at the right time. But even in the last 3-4 months, radio has strayed from straight pop to more rhythmic/urban. My opinion of ALTNOY was that it was plenty catchy enough--it just doesn't fit with the current idea of CHR, which may change again in 3 months. IMO, radio does have a problem with centering too much around the image of an artist, but I don't think David's clean-cut image is what held ALTNOY back. It just didn't hit--for few or many reasons--it didn't hit. Just like tons and tons of great songs before it that managed to do nothing on the radio. It's a sad story, but not an unusual one, so I don't think there's anything particularly special about this song not hitting that says something about radio's reception towards David. And I think he's successfully moved beyond Idol to the degree that most people in radio don't give a rat's @ss what his image on Idol was. The major stations have seen him perform since then; they've interacted with him. He's spent no short amount of time doing radio promotion over the last 9 months. PDs know what he's like, how he performs now, and who he is, and they generally love the guy. David isn't the problem--the problem is what is considered "CHR" right now, which is why I bet Jive is probably thinking about new material that is more reflective of current CHR. Faster is in; midtempo is out. So now the reason that ALTNOY didn't get played is because radio has changed dramatically in 3 or 4 months? LOL. Excuses, excuses. CHR was rhythmic leaning 3 or 4 months ago too and fast songs always tend to do better since they tend to be more catchy. ALTNOY was as boring 4 months ago as it is today. Unless we are talking about this song being released in 2002 when it might have actually fit into top 40, then the release date wouldn't have made a difference. I think this song didn't do well because it is boring, not because of his image. But I also think he has an image issue that makes it less likely for PDs/MDs to want to play his stuff. It doesn't mean they won't but he really has to release the right song - he won't get any benefit of the doubt, as some artists do. I don't believe that. If PDs/MDs don't want to play him b/c of his image why did they play Crush then? ALTNOY is a slow song yes, but it's a good song, if slow songs are boring to you then so be it. But yes I agree that radio stations are playing more rap/fast songs and less slow, vocal songs. Soundscene, your theory that his aol sessions got taken down possibly b/c of a live video that might be released sounds like a good possibility to me. Still, I really liked his aol sessions and it's sad that they got taken down.
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queencello
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Post by queencello on Mar 30, 2009 22:34:27 GMT -5
So now the reason that ALTNOY didn't get played is because radio has changed dramatically in 3 or 4 months? LOL. Excuses, excuses. CHR was rhythmic leaning 3 or 4 months ago too and fast songs always tend to do better since they tend to be more catchy. ALTNOY was as boring 4 months ago as it is today. Unless we are talking about this song being released in 2002 when it might have actually fit into top 40, then the release date wouldn't have made a difference. I think this song didn't do well because it is boring, not because of his image. But I also think he has an image issue that makes it less likely for PDs/MDs to want to play his stuff. It doesn't mean they won't but he really has to release the right song - he won't get any benefit of the doubt, as some artists do. I don't believe that. If PDs/MDs don't want to play him b/c of his image why did they play Crush then? ALTNOY is a slow song yes, but it's a good song, if slow songs are boring to you then so be it. But yes I agree that radio stations are playing more rap/fast songs and less slow, vocal songs. Soundscene, your theory that his aol sessions got taken down possibly b/c of a live video that might be released sounds like a good possibility to me. Still, I really liked his aol sessions and it's sad that they got taken down. I said that I think it is harder for him to get played because of the image issues (not only those unique to him, but those associated with all former Idols when they first start out), not that PDs/MDs do not want to or will not ever play his songs. And I DO NOT think slow songs are boring. Slow songs can be great and can have amazing hooks. I just think that ALTNOY is not catchy and does not fit in with today's top 40 (or top 40 from any time in the recent past). That's why I think it flopped. Crush was catchy. They chose a good first single and pushed it hard. That's why it did well. But this topic is dead and over (just like the song), so I'm done. If some of you want to go on continuing to believe that the wonderful, catchy, made-for-top 40 (4 months ago, anyway) ALTNOY by that in-demand artist who radio PDs love and whose songs radio is obviously clamoring to play, was just a victim of bad timing and that everything else is hunky-dory, then feel free.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Mar 30, 2009 23:50:13 GMT -5
But this topic is dead and over (just like the song), so I'm done. If some of you want to go on continuing to believe that the wonderful, catchy, made-for-top 40 (4 months ago, anyway) ALTNOY by that in-demand artist who radio PDs love and whose songs radio is obviously clamoring to play, was just a victim of bad timing and that everything else is hunky-dory, then feel free. You've got Jason Mraz as your avi--are all the singles he released that failed to do anything on the radio just bad or due to his image problem? Unlikely. Or was it bad timing, or the song didn't fit with the current CHR, or there wasn't enough promotion, or... etc. etc. etc. Any reason people come up with as to why this song didn't hit (including that you think the song is "boring") is an "excuse," so it's kind of lame to use the term "excuse" as a weapon against those who would attempt to explain why it didn't work out. The only difference between my "excuse" and your "excuse" is that I think the song is good and catchy, and I think it was factors other than its quality that caused it to fail as a single.
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queencello
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Post by queencello on Mar 31, 2009 1:07:17 GMT -5
Ugh. Hardcore Idol fans can be so irritating. Yes, go ahead and defend every little point. The silly part is that I actually like David, but go ahead and attack.
What you and your fellow fans on here have consistently done is offer excuses for the performance of the song - from lack of promotion, to Jive holding back, to bad timing given other songs out at the same time, or songs released around the same time, to now, apparently, a drastic change as to what top 40 stations will play. They are excuses because most of you refuse to even entertain the idea of any problems with the song itself or the appeal of the artist to top 40 radio - everything is due to outside factors, which is a little too convenient and is hard to buy at this point given everything Jive has done to push David and the song. And call mine an "excuse" if you want to, but at least it is just one consistent one (that the song isn't catchy and doesn't fit top 40) - yours have changed with the wind. And I never called the song "bad" or poor, just WRONG for top 40 (as are many of Jason Mraz's songs and those of a multitude of other artists).
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aTunes
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Post by aTunes on Mar 31, 2009 1:31:44 GMT -5
I still just can't get over how people expected anything more from this. I mean really how was this going to be a hit? It just was never going to happen. Period. The end.
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street
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Post by street on Mar 31, 2009 6:28:10 GMT -5
Had to check to see what the comment on the Cook thread meant. I thought 90 pages was the limit. :)
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 31, 2009 7:06:36 GMT -5
90 pages isn't the limit, normally it's 100. But since the 'Circus' era began, fans have been a little trigger-happy with their threads and it's sort of spread from there.
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Rodze
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Post by Rodze on Mar 31, 2009 11:48:36 GMT -5
I'll say it again. David is respectful to everyone. I would think he would want his fans to do the same. I would think... Yes, I think for myself. Amazing, no? But I forgot I signed up for a cult. My bad... Anyhow... Let's not make this about me or annoying poster #1. I was initially talking about this thread and the quality of its content, or its necessity to remain open, or as I like to call it: making the world a better place by forcing davidsprincess to post elsewhere.
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Post by Baby In a New Dress on Mar 31, 2009 11:52:53 GMT -5
I'll say it again. David is respectful to everyone. I would think he would want his fans to do the same. I would think... Yes, I think for myself. Amazing, no? But I forgot I signed up for a cult. My bad... Anyhow... Let's not make this about me or annoying poster #1. I was initially talking about this thread and the quality of its content, or its necessity to remain open, or as I like to call it: making the world a better place by forcing davidsprincess to post elsewhere. Took the words right outta mouth. Seriously- we're his fans. Not his followers. Huge difference. As for david Princess... I think I've made my feelings pretty clear on that "situation."
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LittleMissMoonshine
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Post by LittleMissMoonshine on Mar 31, 2009 12:23:02 GMT -5
or as I like to call it: making the world a better place by forcing davidsprincess to post elsewhere. Oh God. I think I know where that "elsewhere" is and I'm very very scared.
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 31, 2009 12:33:25 GMT -5
:'(ALTNOY is still #46 626 723 -97 3.296 ;)(This song is a fighter!) I'm glad that it's still doing well with the radio stations that are still playing it..) :) Still top 50! I disagree with the people who says that ALTNOY doesn't fit on Pop radio and ALTNOY it's not catchy..(This song is very catchy, if it wasn't catchy, it wasn't a hit on Radio disney. xm20, and other radio stations that play David.) This song failed because it wasn't promoted well, and Jive failed with the timing, the video was released too early, also when they delayed the adds, that hurt AlTNOY! because this song had to compete with MLWSWY, crack a bottle. Circus and other upbeat songs... when David performed at the Jingle bells, Jive should release AlTNOY at that moment not wait too long to release it.Crush had peaked in November, they needed to release AlTNOY soon to keep David on the radio..But they didn't do it and waited for 2 months to release it.. Another thing, despite the failure with the timing, This song had many shots to hit top 40, when it was #42 and it was doing well, but radio stations didn't add it, and they prefered to add other upbeat songs instead, so all the songs passed ALTNOY. All those problems affected ALTNOY, and when Jive wanted to save it, it was too late. This song could do it better because it's better than Thinking of you and I'll be,( songs that hit top 40) but sadly most radio stations didn't want to play it because there wasn't enough buzz for this song...
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Mar 31, 2009 13:12:56 GMT -5
Ugh. Hardcore Idol fans can be so irritating. Yes, go ahead and defend every little point. The silly part is that I actually like David, but go ahead and attack. I'm not a hard core Idol fan. No clue where you got that. I actually think the show is kind of lame, and heavily manipulated. And I didn't attack you--I said what I thought because people keep saying "you're making excuses" and it's getting tiring since everybody is. And, by the way, people speculate as to what is going on based on the information they have at the time. So if information changes, then speculation changes. That's not being wishy-washy or changing your mind--that's reacting to new information. I always thought you were a very sensible poster, so I expected you to read what I wrote and consider it. That's all.
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LeonaLewis
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Post by LeonaLewis on Mar 31, 2009 14:40:14 GMT -5
This song could do it better because it's better than Thinking of you and I'll be,( songs that hit top 40) but sadly most radio stations didn't want to play it because there wasn't enough buzz for this song... I disagree. I think both 'Thinking Of You' and 'I Will Be' are much better than this tosh, and that is THE reason they made the top 40 over this. ;)
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 31, 2009 16:59:57 GMT -5
Yeah, Thinking of You and I Will Be were top 40 hits because they were better and also because they were coming from huge hits (Hot N Cold reached #1 and Better in Time #3). This one was coming from a song that peaked at #11, it is a good position, but not enough to give a boost to a new single. Just look how I Do Not Hook Up by Kelly is already going to go top 50 without an adds date because it is coming after a hit single.
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 31, 2009 17:12:28 GMT -5
This song could do it better because it's better than Thinking of you and I'll be,( songs that hit top 40) but sadly most radio stations didn't want to play it because there wasn't enough buzz for this song... I disagree. I think both 'Thinking Of You' and 'I Will Be' are much better than this tosh, and that is THE reason they made the top 40 over this. ;) i i desagree with you too, ALTNOY, never hit top 40 but at least is holding at the top 50, it's still #46, while i'll be or thinking of you' made the top 40 but they dissappeared from the charts faster than ALTNOY.. at the end AlTNOY is showing more signs of durablity than those songs that made top 40.... ;)
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LeonaLewis
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Post by LeonaLewis on Mar 31, 2009 17:15:40 GMT -5
^deluded fan excusa. And IDNHU is a great song - hence why it is top 50 before adds.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 31, 2009 17:19:35 GMT -5
^Yeah, i like IDNHU It's not failing at a higher rate because it never had a lot of spins to loose. And actually, at least Thinking of you reached the actual charts from billboard and R&R, and it's still a top 20 hit for Katy (it reached #16).
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Kishi KCM
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Post by Kishi KCM on Mar 31, 2009 17:24:19 GMT -5
This thread is a super hit. But how long has it been in the top 50 under #40, like two months? Feels like forever!!
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 31, 2009 17:57:06 GMT -5
Katy's songs are controversial, so radio support her music more.. Leona, has Simon and factor x behind her...same with Cook, he has American idol behind him, so they have more advantages than Archie.. While Archie doesn't have the promotion that other singers have and his label failed with the timing of this song, Being top 50 for almost 3 months, only shows the lastingness of this song!! ;) because it's impressive that this song is still holding # 46 and without so much airplay support, and it's impressive that this song never hit top 40, but it's a hit on radio disney, xm20 and other small radio stations, so it's not a huge flop like the ha ters want to see it.... it's impressive that David is still selling 5,000 records everyweek, his solo tour was SOLD OUT, AND this song and crush are still selling on itunes, (and without American idol promotion..) if this song failed to hit top 40, SO What???? it's not the end of his career guys..Thank God, David is still popular and he will be recording his second record soon...
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jaybee
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Post by jaybee on Mar 31, 2009 18:06:31 GMT -5
^ I'm wondering if you are making fun of the kiddie fans, or if you are a kiddie fan...
This song didn't fit, hopefully something else off his album will have better timing.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Mar 31, 2009 18:12:13 GMT -5
Ok, "this song is better than this song" is not a great argument as to why some songs make it and others don't. All that is subjective. I was not a fan of "Thinking of You" at all. I think it had some of the worst vocals in CHR. I liked "I Will Be," though. But that's subjective. What you or I like has nothing to do with it. And what you or I think is "better" is irrelevant. Since when does the quality of a song have anything to do with it getting played?
Billboard magazine reviews singles and in the print edition assigns stars and arrows to each review. The arrow is Billboard predicting the song will go top 50 in its format. The star is Billboard saying that the song is really great, and they think it's great regardless of how it does in its format--whether it's a hit or a flop. (Some songs get no designation) Billboard does this because they know quality means very little when it comes to what actually gets played. Buzz plays a bigger role. Some PDs will play what they like. Other PDs are very controlled, and will play only what they think is "hot," whether they like the song or not.
I don't know what designation TOY or IWB got from Billboard. ALTNOY, however, got a star.
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 31, 2009 18:26:36 GMT -5
From fans of david: Weird things are happening in ALTNOY-land. While it continues to do VERY well on XM, it’s spins around the rest of radio are decreasing. Nevertheless, sales are starting to go up on iTunes (in Pop Chart: #47, Crush #34) and there have been some radio adds.. P.S: Keep requesting it on Radio disney and Xm20 Archies, the increasing of the sales are because AlTNOY is doing great on disney and xm, and maybe because David was on the KCA too ..Ignore the ha..ters, they are jealous of david and they enjoy that this song didn't hit top 40 :( and keep requesting it..This song is not over yet, it's still at #46 on mediabase!!! Go Archies!!
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 31, 2009 18:30:05 GMT -5
The song is over, and this is me being completely objective. It's at #46 and going down quickly. It's averaging 15 spins lost per day, and there's a lot of stuff coming up quickly; it'll be out of the top 50 before too long.
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 31, 2009 18:31:28 GMT -5
This song could do it better because it's better than Thinking of you and I'll be,( songs that hit top 40) but sadly most radio stations didn't want to play it because there wasn't enough buzz for this song... I disagree. I think both 'Thinking Of You' and 'I Will Be' are much better than this tosh, and that is THE reason they made the top 40 over this. ;) I agree with soundscene that whether we like a song is all subjective. I'm a big fan of Leona but hated I Will Be cuz it sounded super boring and it was a cover too right? I personally think ALTNOY sounds better than both Thinking of You and I Will Be but the last two songs get better coverage cuz they're done by current radio divas.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 31, 2009 18:32:29 GMT -5
What helped Katy and Leona as well was that they were each coming off two top 3 smashes each. ;)
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 31, 2009 18:32:39 GMT -5
The song is over, and this is me being completely objective. It's at #46 and going down quickly. It's averaging 15 spins lost per day, and there's a lot of stuff coming up quickly; it'll be out of the top 50 before too long. No one's arguing with you. I'd rather see it go down faster cuz without further promo and radio spins, I don't even consider it a single anymore.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Mar 31, 2009 18:33:26 GMT -5
I know no-one's arguing with me. ;) Just laying it down for the princess.
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LittleMissMoonshine
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Post by LittleMissMoonshine on Mar 31, 2009 18:41:37 GMT -5
I know no-one's arguing with me. ;) Just laying it down for the princess. Lost cause. Like, Really really lost.
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Post by davidprincess on Mar 31, 2009 18:45:27 GMT -5
i disagree, this song is not over yet because it's still holding its position...It will be over when it's out the top 50..But still it's getting 626 spins, (yesterday had 634 spins), so it's not going down so quickly in my opinion.. :) also, it's not over yet 'cause it's moving up on itunes again ;) ALTNOY will be over when it's out the top 50 and when it doesn't sell nothing on Itunes...But as long as it keeps getting spins from some radio stations and it keeps selling on Itunes, this song is still alive... so we the true fans should keep requesting it on the radio stations that still are playing the music of our Prince...
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musicluver
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Post by musicluver on Mar 31, 2009 18:49:45 GMT -5
i disagree, this song is not over yet because it's still holding its position...It will be over when it's out the top 50..But still it's getting 626 spins, (yesterday had 634 spins), so it's not going down so quickly in my opinion.. :) also, it's not over yet 'cause it's moving up on itunes again ;) ALTNOY will be over when it's out the top 50 and when it doesn't sell nothing on Itunes...But as long as it keeps getting spins from some radio stations and it keeps selling on Itunes, this song is still alive... so we the true fans should keep requesting it on the radio stations that still are playing the music of our Prince... yes it's important to squeeze as much money of the song but I'm pretty sure it has reached it's peak.
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