horchata
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Post by horchata on Feb 15, 2012 2:07:14 GMT -5
It seems a little cold that Trisha Yearwood isn't on this list.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 3:30:26 GMT -5
^Nor Reba. Which fine, the first ten years of her career were the 80's but she hasn't exactly been taking a nap since 1990...in fact the 90's were her peak years. Country got straight up shafted. You have to get to #35 (Shania) before you see any country, and I only saw six country acts overall (I excluded Jewel since we know her inclusion is for her 90's pop singer-songwriter stuff).
The problem is that this list is absurdly contradictory in EVERY single way:
- As has been pointed out, obviously critical acclaim did not factor into this. Otherwise Katy would not have made it anywhere on this list, Britney would have probably not made the top 50, and people like Bjork, Annie Lennox, and PJ Harvey would be higher.
- But then it's also obvious that commercial success did not play a major factor, either. Otherwise all or almost all of the recent artists with only two albums under their belts would have plummeted straight off the chart. Celine and Shania both would have been top 10, if not top 5.
- So...what about cultural impact/influence on subsequent artists? Well it should go without saying that this clearly didn't play much of a role as that is clearly what just about everyone is thinking about when they rip this list apart for being such a joke. Again, going back to these artists who only have two albums...how the hell you gonna influence anyone when you just got your own butt in the door yesterday and have yet to prove you aren't a fluke? Adele, obviously, is way too inflated...actually if influence on other musicians is a factor she should not be on the list at all; it's too soon to say how 21 will influence new artists or music trends even in the near future and 19 didn't make enough of a splash. If anything, one could point out that she herself was influenced by Amy (I believe she has acknowledged as much), which would mean that Amy is the two-album artist who deserves a loftier ranking, not Adele.
- I could at least give Adele some credit for "cultural impact" since 21 has certainly made its mark on the public conscience, if not on other people's music. But then you got these randoms dotting the bottom of the list that throw this theory all off. No offense to these ladies I'm about to name check as I like or even love all of them, but I don't think many would say that people like Mandy Moore, Jordin Sparks, Colbie Caillat, Sara Bareilles, or Regina Spektor have made a huge mark - or even a moderately sized indent - on musical pop culture during their time. A few decent hits does not an impact make.
- And then there is the 1990-present factor, a restriction which I don't really agree with, but if it is going to be used it should be reflected in the fact that artists with a fair amount of of their success falling in the 80's would end up ranking a bit lower on this list than one would prefer. That could possibly explain why Whitney was ranked a bit lower than she should have been - she does lose her first two albums to the 80's - but then if that is the case, I do feel that the fact that Mariah's entire career is encapsulated in that time span would ultimately edge her past Madonna, who loses her first FOUR albums to the 80's (though no doubt Whitney and Madonna's 90's-00's careers would still certainly be enough to keep them in the top 5).
The thing that makes it suck the most is - no offense Spree - but what you don't realize is that when a list is this off, it invalidates EVERYONE placed on it and for people who were already bound to get some shade thrown at them just for being included, the wild inaccuracy just heightens that tenfold. As a Kelly fan for example, how am I supposed to in good conscience celebrate her top 20 placement? I'm not saying she shouldn't be on the list but to put her ahead of Celine, Annie Lennox, and Melissa Etheridge - three women who greatly influenced HER career - and then when I look again and see that her biggest idol and a country great, Reba, didn't even make the list - even I can't stan that blindly.
This isn't a matter of X stans are just salty b/c Y singer is rated higher than their fave, it's more like if you can't even get the basic foundation right then the whole thing is pretty much null and void. So yeah...this entire list is just ridiculous. And it's not like anyone really comes to expect much from a VH1 list but I at least expected it to make sense on some level. And of course, being VH1, I expect NO explanation behind the supposed criteria they used to make up this list.
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GRRR
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Post by GRRR on Feb 15, 2012 5:31:22 GMT -5
This entire thread is full of
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Feb 15, 2012 5:47:54 GMT -5
- As has been pointed out, obviously critical acclaim did not factor into this. Otherwise Katy would not have made it anywhere on this list, Britney would have probably not made the top 50, and people like Bjork, Annie Lennox, and PJ Harvey would be higher. I write reviews and articles about music and I really like Katy Perry and Britney Spears. Critics have different kind of tastes too and there are critics who enjoy what Katy, Britney, David Guetta, Rihanna etc do at the moment. If somebody has a problem with Katy Perry, it's the industry itself and the delusional fans of other acts. Not critics. Critics have always loved good pop music, from The Beatles to Abba (belatedly but still). From Madonna to Lady Gaga. Also, it takes some time to achieve the acceptance of critics. They observe artists at first and want to see if there's anything beneath the surface (Rihanna, for example). Personally, I'm in that phase with Jessie J now. She's not a very good singer but has some talent as a pop act. Her next album will show whether she really is something or just a pretty facade.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 15, 2012 9:43:35 GMT -5
The 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll not only was a stronger list/show because it covered all time up through early 1999 or so, but also because it surveyed women of various sectors- and had a narrator amidst all the- at times fluffy and unnecessary- goo-goo-ga-ga comments. This latest one is fine to watch, but definitely leaves a lot of head-scratching as to how one act can be placed so low down the list, while another is placed so far up. Ah well.
Sure, some in the low region deserve that placement, but if it were, say, Rolling Stone, Q or another notable music publication doing the same, they wouldn't even appear. Same for some acts that are ranked high on this VH1 list.
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herb
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Post by herb on Feb 15, 2012 10:46:02 GMT -5
Am I missing something? The list does not have Anita Baker. Isn't it ridiculous?
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Kishi KCM
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Post by Kishi KCM on Feb 15, 2012 11:39:20 GMT -5
^ What did Anita Baker do from 1990 until now?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 15, 2012 11:43:48 GMT -5
Can they not get better people to comment than Mob Wives and Jersey Shore people? Wow. Cheapens the whole thing.
So who actually voted? Was it VH1 staff, or musicians/artists?
The top 3 are fine, but it's crazy that someone like Demi Lovato is on the list and Trisha Yearwood is not. And some people are way too high, and others way too low. Jennifer Lopez higher than the Dixie Chicks?!?!
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like2throw
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Post by like2throw on Feb 15, 2012 11:53:06 GMT -5
lol adele in the top 5.
So I guess adele has done more than mariah carey for the last 20 years now lololololol?
Give me a break man.
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discoloser
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Post by discoloser on Feb 15, 2012 15:11:38 GMT -5
Hmm.. Since everyone stated the obvious. How do you rate someone like the spice girls? Critics don't love them and people make fun of them. But then they ushered in the late 90s pop movement, best selling girl group, and their short lived reunion tour did well.
Critical acclaim - not much Commercial- loads
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Feb 15, 2012 15:15:08 GMT -5
I don't know any critic who doesn't acknowledge them and their legacy. However, being loved is a different story but as far as 90s pop groups go, I'd say Spice Girls are among the most appreciated. Definitely ahead of boybadns such as NKOTB and BSB.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 15, 2012 15:37:19 GMT -5
Neither Ne-Yo or VH1 has made mention of how it was compiled- I'd bet that VH1 itself compiled it, which explains some of the head-scratching rankings.
Spice Girls had some acclaim on all-time lists for "Wannabe" and the Spice album. But nothing really aside from that.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Feb 15, 2012 15:39:48 GMT -5
Neither Ne-Yo or VH1 has made mention of how it was compiled- I'd bet that VH1 itself compiled it, which explains some of the head-scratching rankings. Yes. I'd be willing to bet that the list was decided by mid-January. I just thought that Ne-Yo would just give introductions to a certain artist without the position behind revealed, but I was mistaken.
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microcuts
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Post by microcuts on Feb 15, 2012 15:54:09 GMT -5
This list is completely invalid due to the lack of Kate Bush. What a glaring oversight...
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Feb 15, 2012 15:55:13 GMT -5
This list is completely invalid due to the lack of Kate Bush. What a glaring oversight... Again, considering 1990-2011. She's in their "Too Great To Be Ranked" section.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Feb 15, 2012 19:55:27 GMT -5
The 1999 list is so much better. What is Ke$ha doing anywhere near this chart?
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Mr. Wonder
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Post by Mr. Wonder on Feb 15, 2012 20:24:19 GMT -5
I don't know any critic who doesn't acknowledge them and their legacy. However, being loved is a different story but as far as 90s pop groups go, I'd say Spice Girls are among the most appreciated. Definitely ahead of boybadns such as NKOTB and BSB. Arguably, THEY revived teen pop with "Wannabe", and Hanson followed with "Mmmbop" along with Backstreet Boys.....then Xtina, Britney and them came.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 21:10:05 GMT -5
There is no question that madonna should be #1, even without her 80s output being considered, as her Billboard Boxscore numbers are probably higher than all of the other ladies in the top 10 combined! Also, in terms of album sales, internationally, even without her 80s figures, she has still sold outsold the others.
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jumpb4uthink
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Feb 15, 2012 21:32:40 GMT -5
Madonna just validated her status with her now 38th top 10 hot 100 billboard hit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 21:40:58 GMT -5
^amen
sorry ladies, but madonna is the true chart queen! no one will beat her in the top 10s...she's so far ahead :)
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 15, 2012 22:20:10 GMT -5
^That's all just gravy, in addition to what Madonna has meant for culture, the industry, etc. No shade needed to other female hitmakers. :)
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 15, 2012 22:51:21 GMT -5
Let's just make our own list! Who's in?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 22:54:03 GMT -5
Pulse list? Beyonce would never get a fair shake...she always places high on these sort of list, yet people would rather have Britney, GaGa, Katy Perry, or Kelly Clarkson ahead of her...it could be fun, but pointless like any best of...list. The best way to gauge these sort of things is too see who ranks high on multiple lists.
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Kurt
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Post by Kurt on Feb 15, 2012 22:59:32 GMT -5
Let's just make our own list! Who's in? Ooh, I get it...pit all of the vicious stan bases against each other Gladiator-style until half of them are banned. You're a clever one, Max.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 15, 2012 23:01:16 GMT -5
Yah- a Pulse list may have the potential to be just as much of a hot mess than the VH1 one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 23:07:06 GMT -5
Madonna would still be #1 for me, but Tori Amos, Bjork and Kylie Minogue would get a lot more luv if I did that list! Adele, Katy, Gaga...um, not so much
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johnm1120
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Post by johnm1120 on Feb 16, 2012 15:06:46 GMT -5
A lot of the inclusions on this list is to put it simply... ridiculous. Let's break this down from the top down (and note I am a fan of a lot of the acts I will breakdown):
Madonna and Mariah I will agree with on the top 2. However the rest of the top 5 needs to be re-examined. Beyonce may have had hits under her belt, but she is nowhere near the status of others below her expecially Whitney, Celine, Gloria, Janet, among others. Then we have Adele and Lady Gaga, neither of which has started on their 3rd albums, yet somehow because they are hot tickets right now, they are given a huge bump to the list, knocking down much more deserving acts.
Christina and Mary J are a bit of a stretch, but still need to be lower. Pink should not even be in the top 20, let alone in the top 10.
Jennifer Lopez and Katy Perry do not belong in this side of the list either, and no way in hell should Rihanna be ranked above Celine.
Celine at #21 is a joke. I won't even go down her track record, and to see several of these so high while she hangs out here is atrocious. If Carrie Underwood is going to be so high, she needs to flip with Shania. When Carrie gets 2 diamond albums, then we'll talk.
Jennifer Hudson, give her a few years she may earn her position, but she's not there yet. I'd say top 40.
I'm sorry, but Amy Winehouse does not deserve to be that high. If she were still alive, she'd barely be in the top 60.
You also have the nerve to tell me that 30 acts on this list are greater than Cher? For real?
And in the wtf were they smoking moment, just one spot below Cher is that god-awful Fantasia, who is more known for sleeping with a married man than she is for anything else she has done. She is not hot, she is a hot mess.
Norah Jones is another that is too high.
How in the hell is Shakira ranked 20 spots higher than Gloria Estefan???
Nicki Minaj. wow. Talk about a joke. Another example of what happened with Lady Gaga and Adele. To see her above Lil' Kim or Eve is a disgrace.
If we're going to push Adele and Gaga so high, why not throw Taylor Swift there too? I would even go on to say this is probably where the previous two should have been.
Lil' Kim despite being ranked lower than Nicki is still way too high. 90s would be generous for her.
Who in their right mind would rank Gloria so low? She needs to be in the top 20 at worst.
Speaking of the worst, why is Ke$ha even in consideration for a list like this? To have her included is bad enough, but to say she's only 1 notch lower than Gloria is a disgrace to the industry.
We have all these jokers on the list, but where is Enya (who is pretty much her own genre)? Where is Reba? Where is Martina McBride? Amy Grant? Vanessa Williams?
That's about as far as I'm gonna go, you can't get worse than that. Skimming the latter half, LeAnn Rimes and the Spice Girls should be higher. If this were truly done correctly, it would be Madonna, Mariah, Whitney & Celine as the top 4.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 16, 2012 15:41:14 GMT -5
Enjoyable commentary. :) Amy Winehouse basically had one album that was a big critical smash- but, like Lauryn Hill, does one critical smash album warrant such reverence?
We don't know exactly how VH1 ranked these acts- if on what they deem to be commercial success, it fails overall. If it's on critical success, it fails overall. I'm curious what, to VH1, constitutes the "greatest" in this case. It really should have left the voting to females of various sectors, like it did the first Greatest Women list.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Feb 16, 2012 15:45:34 GMT -5
Enjoyable commentary. :) Amy Winehouse basically had one album that was a big critical smash- but, like Lauryn Hill, does one critical smash album warrant such reverence? Um, look at #5 and ask that question again.
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Post by when the pawn... on Feb 16, 2012 17:09:17 GMT -5
I'd construct the top of the list as such...
1 Madonna 2 Mariah Carey 3 Beyonce 4 Whitney Houston 5 Janet Jackson 6 Britney Spears 7 Celine Dion 8 Shania Twain 9 Mary J Blige 10 Gwen Stefani 11 TLC 12 Lady GaGa 13 Missy Elliott 14 Christina Aguilera 15 Alanis Morissette 16 Kelly Clarkson 17 Dixie Chicks 18 Shakira 19 P!nk 20 Sheryl Crow
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