jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Feb 13, 2024 9:36:08 GMT -5
looking at the voting results Mary is near the bottom and might not get in this year . i voted for Mary along with Mariah, Cher and Kool&The Gang.
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Night Senses
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Post by Night Senses on Feb 13, 2024 9:42:05 GMT -5
I'm trying to decide if the way they do voting (block voting) helps or hurts, and I think it helps? It isn't really an either/or situation because they aren't voting for just 1 person or even ranking the nominees. My guess is people who think Mary J merits inclusion also think Mariah and maybe Sade too, so they would probably list all of them. I think it's probably the best form of voting out there, really, but maybe someone knows the negative part of it that I don't know. I remember Janet specifically thanking Questlove for playing a part in induction as he made a lot of noise for her to get in. She even made him stand up at the ceremony. It helps to have someone rally the troops to root for your legacy to be acknowledged. So having advocates is definitely important. I think this could work to MJB and MC’s advantage, especially the latter being in the Songwriter's Hall of Fame, among other influential aspects. And MJB, of course, has a lot going for her in terms of influence and impact as well. Sade, as much as I love them and want to see Ms. Adu on that stage being recognized, is a more safe pick that I feel would ride the wave of technically being a “band,” which checks off a box that won’t rile up the losers who complain every year about every nominee not being literal “rock” (why are we not passed this obtuse nonsense?). I just don’t know what the voting process is truly like, but I do know that it helps to have people there that are passionate about your work.
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Night Senses
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Post by Night Senses on Feb 13, 2024 10:01:01 GMT -5
Three females were inducted last year as performers, so it's possible that happens again. The year prior, four female-driven acts were inducted. So, there has been progress in that department. It’s not just about women in particular. It’s about certain type of women. It’s about grouping them into a box even if there are nuances that make them different, and the feeling that they can’t give it to all of them. And while not hopeless, it would certainly be unprecedented to see the ones I mentioned all get in. The politics of it all shouldn’t be lost on anyone. I hope they *do* induct three women, but which ones is the question. Donna Summer and Whitney Houston — despite being two completely different artists with different contributions — had to literally cease to exist before their inductions. It’s not coincidental. I know you follow this in a way that a lot of us don’t, so I do value your opinion and have appreciated it over the years. But what is the likelihood of Mary J, Mariah and Sade being on that final list together? Wouldn’t that be too much progress? To be wrong would be awesome!
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 13, 2024 20:56:53 GMT -5
I can't believe The Carpenters have been snubbed for so many years. I'd take Karen's voice over any big diva voice. It's a shame. And so many classics they had. I think they fall into a similar category of artists like Barbra Streisand and Olivia Newton-John who aren't in it either.
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Feb 13, 2024 20:58:05 GMT -5
I would say it says volumes that Alanis isn't in, and she's literally a rock artist, that had one of the biggest rock albums of all time.
That in and of itself shows the issues the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has with women.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 13, 2024 21:04:38 GMT -5
I hope they wake up and induct Labelle someday, while Patti and Nona are still here.
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 13, 2024 21:21:26 GMT -5
I would say it says volumes that Alanis isn't in, and she's literally a rock artist, that had one of the biggest rock albums of all time. That in and of itself shows the issues the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has with women. They inducted Sheryl Crow and she's a 90s artist. Perhaps Alanis will get inducted in the foreseeable future.
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 13, 2024 21:24:16 GMT -5
I can't believe The Carpenters have been snubbed for so many years. I'd take Karen's voice over any big diva voice. It's a shame. And so many classics they had. I think they fall into a similar category of artists like Barbra Streisand and Olivia Newton-John who aren't in it either. I don't understand how those two aren't inducted because they both had legendary careers. If Barbra can't get inducted neither will Celine Dion.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 13, 2024 22:55:16 GMT -5
Night Senses- thanks for the good word. :) The majority of the voting body is probably male, and white, at that. So, unfortunately, that could impact voting to some degree.
Going back to the Hall's start (1986), it's been very rare for more than one female of color to be inducted in a performer class. The only ones I noted were in 1993 (Ruth Brown and Etta James) and 1996 (The Shirelles and Gladys Knight & the Pips). I personally cannot imagine someone looking at a list of nominees and going, "I can't vote for more than one this or that," though could there be some with that mind frame? Probably so.
As far as their style, Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey and Sade are all R&B, though different enough, stylistically, that they shouldn't, theoretically, cancel each other out. Looking at the Rock Hall's history and inductees, it's obvious there has been a female problem in general- such a small percentage of the inductees are women. There has been progress, so that should be noted. Since 2021, there have been at least three female/female-centric acts inducted each year. Will 2024 follow suit?
As for the fan vote, Mary J. Blige being near the bottom shouldn't necessarily discount her in terms of the overall voting. Motley Crue, I think, won the fan vote the first or second year (when the voting process/rules was pretty messy), and was not inducted. Pat Benatar finished second one year and was not inducted in that year's class.
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clsvltn
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Post by clsvltn on Feb 14, 2024 15:36:21 GMT -5
Dave Matthews Band also won the fan vote and did not make it in either. The fan vote is irrelevant anyway lol
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Post by balletgirlmom on Feb 14, 2024 15:48:07 GMT -5
With Jann Wenner gone, many more women will get in. All of the female artists mentioned in these posts are deserving. ALL of them!
How sad has it been when one man, Jann Wenner, had all this control in the Hall of Fame. Time for female artists to get inducted!!!!
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m55
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Post by m55 on Feb 18, 2024 10:50:15 GMT -5
Usher deserves this honor.
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 18, 2024 12:10:49 GMT -5
Usher deserves it but he's going to have to wait his turn like so many of his other contemporaries.
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Feb 18, 2024 17:30:57 GMT -5
Speaking of waiting their turn. How many acts get inducted in immediately once they are eligible? I can only remember Madonna, who they basically re-wrote the rules for to let her in. Has anyone else been immediately inducted?
It feels like there is going to be a pretty big waiting queue going forward as many acts have been overlooked and past over, and people aren't going to give the HOF any room to breathe until all these artists get their due.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 18, 2024 18:29:55 GMT -5
^By rewrote the rules, do you mean letting pop-oriented acts in? She still had to receive enough of the vote to be inducted. She certainly was worthy/earned it.
Aside from the Rock Hall's first class in 1986, these are the acts inducted in their first year of eligibility, per Future Rock Legends. Just three solo females got in when eligible, with a couple or so bands featuring female members.
Missy Elliott (2023) Eminem (2022) Foo Fighters (2021) Jay-Z (2021) Notorious B.I.G. (2020) 2Pac (2017) Pearl Jam (2017) Green Day (2015) Nirvana (2014) Public Enemy (2013) Guns N' Roses (2012) Run DMC (2009) Madonna (2008) R.E.M. (2007) The Pretenders (2005) U2 (2005) Prince (2004) The Clash (2003 Elvis Costello & the Attractions (2003) The Police (2003) Ramones (2002) Talking Heads (2002) Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers (2002) Bruce Springsteen (1999) The Eagles (1998) The Allman Brothers Band (1995) Janis Joplin (1995) Led Zeppelin (1995) Neil Young (1995) The Band (1994) Elton John (1994) John Lennon (1994) Creedence Clearwater Revival (1993) The Doors (1993) Sly and the Family Stone (1993) Van Morrison (1993) The Jimi Hendrix Experience (1992) Sam & Dave (1992) The Byrds (1991) The Kinks (1990) Simon and Garfunkel (1990) The Who (1990) The Rolling Stones (1989) The Beach Boys (1988) The Beatles (1988) Bob Dylan (1988)
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Post by @DiegoMarcondes_ on Feb 19, 2024 11:59:14 GMT -5
I've never seen this list of members before, but I wonder why Michael Jackson is not there. Like what??? Rooting for Mariah this time! Off: is he being sarcastic? judging by his historical...
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Feb 19, 2024 12:22:41 GMT -5
^By rewrote the rules, do you mean letting pop-oriented acts in? I remember the rule was that it had to be 25 years from your first album, and then they changed it to 25 years after your debut single. It looks like only Missy, Janice and Madonna were able to get in as soon as they were eligible.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 20, 2024 22:19:49 GMT -5
^Ahh, OK. Not sure what the rule was before. I only recall seeing 25 years after one's first recording (whether that was an album or single).
Diego- I think MJ was inducted in his fourth year of eligibility. The Jackson 5 was inducted in 1997, four years prior to his solo induction.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 21, 2024 9:51:52 GMT -5
Diego- I think MJ was inducted in his fourth year of eligibility. The Jackson 5 was inducted in 1997, four years prior to his solo induction. Wait, so The Jackson 5 was inducted in the year Michael became eligible as a solo artist? How wild would it have been if he'd been nominated as part of a group and as a solo artist at the same time?! Regardless it's ridiculous he had to wait 4 years. This HoF is a mess.
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Post by balletgirlmom on Feb 22, 2024 8:11:21 GMT -5
I am just happy that a lot of people now notice how badly the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame treated female artists. Now I hope that is all behind us.
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 22, 2024 8:20:04 GMT -5
We'll soon find out if that's true, starting this year.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Feb 22, 2024 18:57:11 GMT -5
From what I understand about the voting process ... it is very white and male because, if I'm not mistaken, anybody who is in the Hall gets to vote on future Hall classes. In addition to the journalists who also get a vote. As stated, the overwhelming majority of members are white. And if you're a group that's in the Hall, each member of that group gets a ballot. So think of all the white male groups who are in the Hall and have had a vote. You can see how this is a problem that was like a spiral. So in order to correct this, they've had to be more careful with how they curate who is on the ballot. You can only vote for who's on there! So I think having more women/Black artists/Black women on the ballot has been a very conscious choice since Jann Wenner left.
The voting system is also F'd up because you're limited to 5 and only 5 votes on the ballot. And you need more than 50% of the vote to get in. This has been a huge problem with the voting process. They should allow you to pick one or two more, or better yet, as many as you want to vote for, to get in. So it sucks to say, but anytime you are on a ballot, you are in fact competing against everyone else on there for people's votes.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 22, 2024 20:37:11 GMT -5
We'll soon find out if that's true, starting this year. Why do you say starting this year? We've seen more women getting in as of late. What makes this year different? The voting system is also F'd up because you're limited to 5 and only 5 votes on the ballot. And you need more than 50% of the vote to get in. This has been a huge problem with the voting process. They should allow you to pick one or two more, or better yet, as many as you want to vote for, to get in. So it sucks to say, but anytime you are on a ballot, you are in fact competing against everyone else on there for people's votes. FYI This says the limit this year is 7: www.lyndsanity.com/music/who-should-be-in-rock-halls-class-of-2024-i-have-thoughts/
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Post by balletgirlmom on Feb 23, 2024 0:41:04 GMT -5
I love that pic of Cher on her motorcycle. It feels so CHER!
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Feb 23, 2024 13:03:42 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad they at least made that change to 7 choices per ballot.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 23, 2024 13:29:49 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad they at least made that change to 7 choices per ballot. Yeah it's official as here is a ballot:
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 23, 2024 14:05:50 GMT -5
If he NEEDS suggestions, then he shouldn't be voting at all. A knowledgeable music person should be able to select a number of those artists on that list based on their own personal criteria without needing help from anyone else. It's a great list this year.
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JamaicaFunk²
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Post by JamaicaFunk² on Feb 23, 2024 14:45:19 GMT -5
I wish Mariah would’ve promised to release her secret rock album (original vocals only), if she were inducted. I bet it would’ve garnered interest and votes.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 23, 2024 14:52:01 GMT -5
If he NEEDS suggestions, then he shouldn't be voting at all. A knowledgeable music person should be able to select a number of those artists on that list based on their own personal criteria without needing help from anyone else. It's a great list this year. I don't think he was seriously asking. He's a well-known music writer (editor for Rolling Stone, writes for the Grammy Awards). He actually wrote for the America: A Tribute to Heroes special where Mariah performed, so I hope that connection helps her get his vote! I wish Mariah would’ve promised to release her secret rock album (original vocals only), if she were inducted. I bet it would’ve garnered interest and votes. More so releasing it now during the voting period would have helped since a lot of people still cling to this "She's not rock!" crap.\ Meanwhile this is interesting: Please note Smith also has a Mariah chapter in her book, so she could be behind helping Mariah get nominated as well.
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 23, 2024 15:27:41 GMT -5
Does anyone have any predictions of which ones they feel will be selected?
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