mikeymike00
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Post by mikeymike00 on Feb 26, 2013 19:49:16 GMT -5
Paid or not paid the song never deserved the # 1 spot no matter how you look at it. Begin Again is a decent song but it is not and was not anything special. I could really care less how it got where it did, I am jut disappointed that it did. I for one am appalled at how she is shoved down our throats when its obvious that with her last two country singles, country listeners are getting tired of her and the "COUNTRY" music that she is putting out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 19:52:51 GMT -5
Paid or not paid the song never deserved the # 1 spot no matter how you look at it. Begin Again is a decent song but it is not and was not anything special. I could really care less how it got where it did, I am jut disappointed that it did. I for one am appalled at how she is shoved down our throats when its obvious that with her last two country singles, country listeners are getting tired of her and the "COUNTRY" music that she is putting out. Well all of what you said is a matter of opinion. Others, including myself, find the song to be great, and I really wouldn't put quotes around the word Country when referring to this song because that's exactly what this song is. I'm happy it hit #1. I'm not happy with the way it got there.
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matty1122
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Post by matty1122 on Feb 26, 2013 19:55:49 GMT -5
Paid or not paid the song never deserved the # 1 spot no matter how you look at it. Begin Again is a decent song but it is not and was not anything special. I could really care less how it got where it did, I am jut disappointed that it did. I for one am appalled at how she is shoved down our throats when its obvious that with her last two country singles, country listeners are getting tired of her and the "COUNTRY" music that she is putting out. How is it clear? I am a country listener and am not tired of her. And I will guess many others feel the same way. Yes, I am sure there are people like yourself, but to lump everyone together and make that statement isn't fair.
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justme60
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Post by justme60 on Feb 26, 2013 20:28:49 GMT -5
matty....are you a real country listener or a Taylor country listener? There is a difference and yes there are a lot of people that feel the same way mikeymike feels. But her fanatics are just more rabid.
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Feb 26, 2013 20:31:00 GMT -5
I need a new single that will sell the album. 4 million is definitely in the bag right now. Next goal is 5 million.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 20:33:09 GMT -5
This truly is the little song that could. People love to throw the term "payola" around and talk about how much money there was involved in the success of Taylor's singles just because they hit #1, when in reality, country radio is by far the easiest chart to manipulate to one's advantages, whether your name is Taylor Swift, Reba McEntire or Carrie Underwood. None of them have been the exception to this. None of them have played it clean. I'd say that out of most of Taylor's recent singles, and by "recent," I'm going back to her Speak Now era two years ago, this was probably the one single which had the healthiest and most honest rises to the top. While, sure, it was not the most conventional #1, and yes, perhaps the last few weeks have obviously been helped by her label's big push, its rise to the top has been the slowest rise she's ever had. No "manipulations" there, just good ol' Taylor Swift being played occasionally on the radio until she made it to the top 8 and started defying everyone else. Four months ago, most people were were complaining about the Clear Channel deal (which I may add, it is now implemented to every major artist in the industry, whether they're Country or not, or whether or not they're managed by Scott Borchetta, but let's not get into that) and how "fake" her spins were, and how manipulated her rise was because how she fell after the first week and struggled to make it back to her peak, and now that she's had a truthful rise with no help of Clear Channel, the #1 is questioned. I've seen mostly level-headed responses in here but this one comes across with a lot of generalized statements and a rather condescending tone. I could care less if it was my favorite song in the world...if it got pushed to #1 the way "Begin Again" did, I'd be unhappy. In my recent posts in this thread (and others have brought it up as well), I've made mention of other songs getting this treatment as well and I don't like it when it happens for those songs either. But to lump Taylor in with Reba and Carrie is silly...Reba has only had one notorious push, and that was the one that caused Billboard to change from a spins-based chart to audience-based. Dudley backed that up by noting that Borchetta was behind that push as well. Garth Brooks debuted at #1 under Borchetta's 'management'. Carrie, Brad, George (some of the other big names)...they get the occasional push here and there (usually just a 'power up for #1' week) but with Taylor, it is every single time. And it's gotten that way with Rascal Flatts lately too. Big Machine is far more guilty of crossing the line than any of the other labels are. I like Taylor. I really do. I own all of her albums. So it's not me picking on her. It's simply the way that her label pushes her songs like crazy that drives me, well, crazy! It's happened with some recent Rascal Flatts tunes as well. If, say, Carrie's "Two Black Cadillacs" or Little Big Town's "Tornado" had been barely chugging along for weeks months, and then suddenly gained 850 spins in a week and surged to #1, I'd be equally upset. It has nothing to do with the song or the artist; it's the 'practice' of chart manipulation. It's a good thing that I don't really regard Mediabase as highly as I do Billboard (and that's not getting into the whole issue of BB saying that "Hot Country Songs" is the 'main' chart, which messes up a lot of history/discographies). Most of the Mediabase-only #1's we've seen over the last several years just don't 'feel' like #1 hits to me. Mediabase #1's are #1's to the artists and the labels and everyone in the industry and I guess I do technically acknowledge them, but I'll always think of this one (like I do with "Back To December", George Strait's "Love's Gonna Make It Alright", Kip Moore's "Beer Money", etc) as a #3 hit.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Feb 26, 2013 20:36:01 GMT -5
But to lump Taylor in with Reba and Kelly is silly... Kelly? I agree completely with your post though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 20:37:16 GMT -5
But to lump Taylor in with Reba and Kelly is silly... Kelly? I agree completely with your post though. That's the 2nd 'oops' I've made today! I said "Carrie" in my head as I was typing it... ;)
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Feb 26, 2013 21:23:49 GMT -5
But it has been pointed out many times before that this song, while slow, did have a healthy rise to the top 10. People were stating that it had peaked way before it even reached the top 10 on mediabase because of how slow it was going. It wasn't until it reached the top 8 that it started gaining more than before. And even then, there really is no proof that it was "manipulated" seeing as how it spent two weeks at #8 and then slowed down again until it reached top 5 with a +200 bullet (and in some cases less) until it reached top 3. Technically, that big push only came when the song reached top 3 and the label decided to support this instead of Tim's track. He still got his Billboard #1, which is far heavier than mediabase's. Last week's was the only week they could push this hard enough for it to reach the top, they weren't certain that it would stabilize and maintain its bullet for a second week in a row. You are acting as if the song skyrocketed to the top based on payola alone when in fact, it has had a relatively "safe" and at times, quite boring rise.
Look, I agree with you that it was (like most other songs) "pushed" for that #1 this week, but I believe it was the label's choice to do it last week rather than this week. You're saying it doesn't bother you when labels do it the week the song goes #1 but this was already top 3 eyeing for a #1 the week before. It's only because Tim didn't get it that I assume you're so bothered.
I'm not trying to be condescending or disrespectful, so I apologize if I come off that way, but it certainly seems like the girl and her achievements are constantly pined down as a "manipulated" and it never fails. Like I said, her rise was not really suspicious or "unfair" to the other songs, especially not when some were claiming it had peaked long ago. It just kept going until it reached top 10, and I choose to believe radio carried it to the top 6 which is when the label kicked in the gears and aimed high. Its run to the top 6 wasn't dishonest...at all.
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Post by josh on Feb 26, 2013 21:33:30 GMT -5
This chart run wasn't suspicious? Lol. To say there was absolutely nothing unusual about this song's chart run is just delusional.
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bigfan101
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Post by bigfan101 on Feb 26, 2013 21:36:14 GMT -5
I like this song, but I think it is unfair to hate Taylor or even borchetta or Big Machine...it's kinda like the saying dont hate the player, hate the game...Radio allows Borchetta and Big Machine to do this so they are no better than them...if it keeps working, why wouldn't Borchetta keep doing it, I mean number one single sound way better than top 5 singles.
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matty1122
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Post by matty1122 on Feb 26, 2013 22:04:27 GMT -5
matty....are you a real country listener or a Taylor country listener? There is a difference and yes there are a lot of people that feel the same way mikeymike feels. But her fanatics are just more rabid. I am not even close to a Taylor fanatic. I have been a fan of country music since I was 11 in 1992. I have seen George Strait 5+ times, Brooks and Dunn, Garth, Shania, Tim, Kenny, Clint Black, etc. I love country music. I love the story telling. While a lot of Taylor songs don't sound the most country, she has the country song-writing/story telling. Is it George Strait country? No, but it's good music. Both her fans and her non-fans are both loud. The thing is though, when you are that successful, most of your sales, listeners, etc are in the middle. And that is where I fall.
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Feb 26, 2013 22:16:18 GMT -5
Why hate on them for having a strong team who is doing what you wish your favorite song was doing instead? Contrary to what you assumed about everyone else's mentality here, "winning", by whatever means it takes, is not everything for everyone. Personally, I would not be happy at all if say one day, Carrie decides to join Borchetta's label. Yeah, maybe people will say that kind of thinking is stupid or unrealistic in the business, but I just don't like his way of doing things. I have stated here more than once, and other places as well, that I love this song. It's one of Taylor's best. Not everyone is out to discredit and attack Taylor. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" applies here too. Some of us are just hating on the chart manipulation, not the song.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Feb 26, 2013 22:50:48 GMT -5
This chart run wasn't suspicious? Lol. To say there was absolutely nothing unusual about this song's chart run is just delusional. I said nothing was "suspicious" about it's chart run until hit top 6 and I clearly stated that's when the label kicked in the gear. How's that delusional...? It took Begin Again five months to reach top 3. The song never skyrocketed and had a healthy, STABLE chart run until it cracked top 10 and it wasn't until it hit top 6 that started receiving gains, so basically the past 2 weeks. To discredit all of it's chart run for the push it was given close to the finish line is pretty unfair.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Feb 26, 2013 23:43:31 GMT -5
^ I don't think anybody at Pulse "discredited" Taylor Swift for her big push near the finish line. I think Taylor Swift and her management team discredited themselves by doing that.
Although she's not the only one to benefit from a phony push at the end of a chart run, I consider her the worst offender. Maybe most people don't care about how the charts work, and maybe there are tons of Swift fans who have a serious double standard, but I do think there are plenty of people (including some fans) who see what's going on and wish it would stop. And many of these people think less of Taylor Swift for participating in this phony promotion.
"Perhaps not as aggressively." Nice way to put it. Perhaps not as dishonestly.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 26, 2013 23:51:57 GMT -5
She's undoubtedly the worst offender; no argument there.
Her tunes have the highest 'burn' rate of anybody in the format, let alone any format megastar of the past 15-20 years, and that's not a secret either.
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bigfan101
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Post by bigfan101 on Feb 26, 2013 23:53:27 GMT -5
I see what your saying. But again I don't think Taylor has anything to do with it, she just happens to be the most obivious example. I mean I doubt that she stands in Borchettas office throwing a tantrum about he isn't trying hard enough to get her to number one.
Radio stations (and I work for one so blaming myself here) allow this to happen. Sure she is probably the worst offender, but if the radio stations did not continue to meet Borchettas demands then we wouldn't be talking about it.... I think 50% of the blame needs to focus on the radio stations at least
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 27, 2013 8:54:33 GMT -5
It just kept going until it reached top 10, and I choose to believe radio carried it to the top 6 which is when the label kicked in the gears and aimed high. Its run to the top 6 wasn't dishonest...at all. I don't think anyone has said its rise to the top 6 was sketchy, so I am not sure of your point. What has been crazy is how last week it had a huge jump, and then since the new chart week began this week it has been having big losses. Obviously the label did something in an effort to get it to #1 last week.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Feb 27, 2013 8:56:27 GMT -5
353 spins lost on Mediabase today!
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Feb 27, 2013 10:47:40 GMT -5
I see what your saying. But again I don't think Taylor has anything to do with it, she just happens to be the most obivious example. I mean I doubt that she stands in Borchettas office throwing a tantrum about he isn't trying hard enough to get her to number one. Radio stations (and I work for one so blaming myself here) allow this to happen. Sure she is probably the worst offender, but if the radio stations did not continue to meet Borchettas demands then we wouldn't be talking about it.... I think 50% of the blame needs to focus on the radio stations at least If she didn't want the label to do it, she could stop it in about 15 seconds. Do you think people are downloading millions of copies of Scott Borchetta's latest single? No, what Taylor cares about is what her label will do. OK, the first time it happened, she didn't really know about it. She knows now. All y'all who keep referring to her as a "girl" and making excuses for her: you are writing about (and being condescending to) a sophisticated, highly intelligent woman who knows about marketing her music as well as writing it. If she thought there was anything worthwhile about honesty and integrity as far as country radio is concerned, she'd speak up and this nonsense would stop immediately. And I was 5 years old when my mother explained to me that "everybody else does it" was a weak excuse. Haven't used it since. Consider abandoning it.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Feb 27, 2013 10:56:16 GMT -5
I'm calling it today - this will go recurrent on Monday's Billboard chart.
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Post by countryman87 on Feb 27, 2013 19:03:00 GMT -5
That would be the 2nd time in 3 weeks if it happened that a song go recurrent from #2.
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Post by Spacey_Kacey on Feb 27, 2013 19:06:08 GMT -5
Didn't quite reach #2 on Billboard. "Better Dig Two" managed to stay in front of it.
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Feb 28, 2013 9:27:40 GMT -5
I was just wondering, can I have a list of artists who single-handedly wrote a number 1 hit on the country charts? I think it's such a big artistic statement to actually write a song solely by yourself. As for Taylor's radio performance, I stopped caring since her Fearless era.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 28, 2013 11:45:26 GMT -5
This is my take on Taylor Swift: I wonder if there is really a market for her music. I mean when Big Machine releases a single and does all the promotion for it, when it starts stuggling in the top fifteen or top ten and they continuosly have to ask stations to keep playing it so it can limp higher on the charts, and given the high burn rate of her songs, is it really a true representation of the popularity of Swift? I can not imagine in a million years when Garth Brooks released Friends In Low Places in 1990, that Capitol Records had to ask stations to keep playing it. Especially when Alabama hogged the #1 position for a month with Jukebox In My Mind that Brooks would had to settle for a #2 or #3 placing at the time. I would think that Swift being the format's biggest star should NOT have to worry about stations playing her songs. Even if it is Begin Again and they would be playing all her other hits. That would be a definition of a TRUE superstar.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Feb 28, 2013 12:05:04 GMT -5
Down 2.2 million overnight, someguy. Your hopes are still alive. I wouldn't have given this a 20% chance to leave as of yesterday, and you were publicly predicting its recurrency. Now the chance is closer to 1 out of 3, if you ask me.
Still has to outrace Dierks downhill. Still has to pick up the pace and lose even more audience per day. But it's possible.
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jughead
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Post by jughead on Feb 28, 2013 17:14:08 GMT -5
This is my take on Taylor Swift: I wonder if there is really a market for her music. I mean when Big Machine releases a single and does all the promotion for it, when it starts stuggling in the top fifteen or top ten and they continuosly have to ask stations to keep playing it so it can limp higher on the charts, and given the high burn rate of her songs, is it really a true representation of the popularity of Swift? I can not imagine in a million years when Garth Brooks released Friends In Low Places in 1990, that Capitol Records had to ask stations to keep playing it. Especially when Alabama hogged the #1 position for a month with Jukebox In My Mind that Brooks would had to settle for a #2 or #3 placing at the time. I would think that Swift being the format's biggest star should NOT have to worry about stations playing her songs. Even if it is Begin Again and they would be playing all her other hits. That would be a definition of a TRUE superstar. Like I said in a previous post, part of her reputation as a superstar is because of her sales, not because of airplay. She has reached a point where she'll sell regardless of whether radios play her or not. At this point, she sells not because she's country or pop. She sells because, well, she's Taylor Swift. She has built what could be one of the most loyal fanbase. Proof of this is that Half of my Heart, Highway Don't Care, Two Is Better Than One became the highest charting track on iTunes during their respective album's release. She might have been viewed in a bad light as of late, but the loyalty of her fans is a big factor in her success. Plus, I view her as "Taylor the sales monster" rather than "Taylor the Airplay queen." Just look at Shania, she's had singles not reaching the top 30, but because of her huge sales, people still consider her a superstar.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 28, 2013 17:24:00 GMT -5
This is my take on Taylor Swift: I wonder if there is really a market for her music. I mean when Big Machine releases a single and does all the promotion for it, when it starts stuggling in the top fifteen or top ten and they continuosly have to ask stations to keep playing it so it can limp higher on the charts, and given the high burn rate of her songs, is it really a true representation of the popularity of Swift? I can not imagine in a million years when Garth Brooks released Friends In Low Places in 1990, that Capitol Records had to ask stations to keep playing it. Especially when Alabama hogged the #1 position for a month with Jukebox In My Mind that Brooks would had to settle for a #2 or #3 placing at the time. I would think that Swift being the format's biggest star should NOT have to worry about stations playing her songs. Even if it is Begin Again and they would be playing all her other hits. That would be a definition of a TRUE superstar. Like I said in a previous post, part of her reputation as a superstar is because of her sales, not because of airplay. She has reached a point where she'll sell regardless of whether radios play her or not. At this point, she sells because she's country or pop. She sells because, well, she's Taylor Swift. She has built what could be one of the most loyal fanbase. Proof of this is that Half of my Heart, Highway Don't Care, Two Is Better Than One became the highest charting track on iTunes during their respective album's release. She might have been viewed in a bad light as of late, but the loyalty of her fans is a big factor in her success. Plus, I view her as "Taylor the sales monster" rather than "Taylor the Airplay queen." Just look at Shania, she's had singles not reaching the top 30, but because of her huge sales, people still consider her a superstar. Even Shania Twain's breakthrough CD, The Woman In Me produced four #1s and two more inside the top 20. Come On Over holds the record for the most top tens for a studio CD, eight. Look at Carrie Underwood (I am not turning this into a Swift vs. Underwood battle here). Underwood and her label, Arista do not have to resort to playing the 'keep playing our song even if it kills you game'. I would rather see an honest peak of #10 versus a dishonest #1.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Feb 28, 2013 17:27:16 GMT -5
Down 2.2 million overnight, someguy. Your hopes are still alive. I wouldn't have given this a 20% chance to leave as of yesterday, and you were publicly predicting its recurrency. Now the chance is closer to 1 out of 3, if you ask me. Still has to outrace Dierks downhill. Still has to pick up the pace and lose even more audience per day. But it's possible. I'm thinking this because the days of the big shenanigans, Saturday and Sunday, are still to come. If she is losing this much on more 'regular' airplay days, then I think the losses will be magnified over the weekend. I definitely could be wrong (I usually am), but I don't see this being top 10 in spins on Monday.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Feb 28, 2013 17:28:06 GMT -5
I would love to see "Starlight" as a single at some point.
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