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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 19, 2005 12:45:47 GMT -5
#14, it's not nice to lie ! \ Actually , after checking TOMMY's SHANIA SUPERSITE, turns out I was right...I was referring to the COUNTRY CHARTS when I talked about the song's chart peak of either 15 or 16. The song did indeed peak at # 16 on Country Radio. Your number was for the AC format.
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Post by alternative4 on Mar 19, 2005 12:48:22 GMT -5
NYperson, you are a sick and obsessive person. I am surprised Tcory hasn't banned you yet. I guess they don't care about moderating. Get a life because every post out of you is a lie and has been proven to be so. You are so obsessive that I think Shania should get extra security against a freak and loser like you.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Mar 19, 2005 13:01:07 GMT -5
NYperson, you are a sick and obsessive person. I am surprised Tcory hasn't banned you yet. I guess they don't care about moderating. Get a life because every post out of you is a lie and has been proven to be so. You are so obsessive that I think Shania should get extra security against a freak and loser like you. I haven't banned because he hasn't done anything worthy of banning. Disliking Shania isn't grounds for removal from the board. The only people throwing insults and getting riled up are the Shania fans. If you disagree with something, debate it intelligently because that's what the board is here for. Otherwise ignore it and move along.
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Spidey
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Post by Spidey on Mar 19, 2005 13:21:00 GMT -5
True. On boards that are actually moderated, he doesn't act as extreme as he does on places like the CMT boards. Since he knows if he acts like his nomral self, he'll get banned. Though he did manage to get banned at the Country Weekly boards, the Shania Forums, etc. So he has a history of being disruptive. But that's not your problem, I know.
To be fair though, some Shania fans have a history with this guy, and its reasonable for them to mention it. And wishing cancer on someone or promoting sex with children are issues certainly worthy of getting riled up over, no? But he hasn't talked about such things on this board yet, you're right.
I find it hilarious though that he's obviously trying so hard to not to be a jerk on here. ;)
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 19, 2005 14:52:57 GMT -5
I was referring to the AC format too. The reason IOHWIB didn't go higher is because of FAFA's huge success. It didn't go anywhere on country because of radio's stingyness.
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reidster
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Post by reidster on Mar 19, 2005 18:07:49 GMT -5
Heck, I said "I think", regarding my memory about the peak # of IOHWIB. (give me some credit... I doubt that FAFA had anything to do with it...even many of Shania's biggest fans have called BREATHE a very weak song, and FAFA wasn't around when the title cut was released , and that still couldn't reach the top ten. and DON't is currently struggling. is FAFA responsible too? And PF2 wasn't a huge hit, by any stretch of the imagination, so you can't say that it is causing DON'T not to be played. Nah... Other singers get big consecutive hits and the previous ones don't affect the current ones. Maybe the fact that FAFA was so embraced made many people be disappointed at Breathe's mediocrity. (IMO FAFA was not a bad effort, one of the only TWO decent songs on UP) the other one being what? Let me guess.. I Ain't going down.. ?!?!
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 19, 2005 18:19:42 GMT -5
the other one being what? Let me guess.. I Ain't going down.. ?!?! IMO, yes...those two songs were the only songs worth anything (and IAGD actually sounded like C O U N T R Y...who would've thought, coming from Shania????)
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Love4Shania
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Post by Love4Shania on Mar 19, 2005 18:33:19 GMT -5
I haven't banned because he hasn't done anything worthy of banning. Disliking Shania isn't grounds for removal from the board. The only people throwing insults and getting riled up are the Shania fans. If you disagree with something, debate it intelligently because that's what the board is here for. Otherwise ignore it and move along. Sure we could try and debate intelligently...although it is impossible with this guy, if you know him from CMT then you would know how biased he is. It isn't his intention to debate anyway, his only goal is to try and piss us fans off and spread half truths into lies. I am all for opinions but this guy is clearly just an "anti-Shania" troll and pretty much every one of his posts so far have been nothing but negative attacks on her.
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reidster
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Post by reidster on Mar 19, 2005 18:34:20 GMT -5
well.. I thought most of the songs on the Green CD sounded country, and the ones on the red one sounded more pop.. She is not only a country artist.. she appeals to more than one genre... IAGD was country, as were all songs on the Green CD [ill have to agree that UP! wasn't very country.. but still).. anywho.. IANQ is country-er than IAGD, IMO...
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 19, 2005 20:34:58 GMT -5
The 19 songs on the album were pop songs that were simply "dressed" in superficial country "costumes"... Sure, some songs worked better as one genre over the other, but make no mistake, these are all mostly mediocre pop ditties marketed as country. Shania is a mediocre pop vocalist, nothing more...
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Post by alternative4 on Mar 19, 2005 21:52:12 GMT -5
tcory, with all due respect this troll is a sick person and has been banned on many sites for starting fights with Shania fans and posting disgusting comments about her family and life. Just by this persons continuous posts about Shania and starting 2 new threads about Shania you should know that this person is here to start fights. If you are not going to moderate this board and kick this person off then this will be a free for all like every other board this troll goes on. Make no mistake, every Shania fan on these boards knows this troll and she is one sick person who has posted horrible things about wanting Shania killed. You better stop this troll before she ruins the whole message board
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tomasz77
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Your biscuit, your beavage, I see your cooter cleavage
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Post by tomasz77 on Mar 19, 2005 21:56:43 GMT -5
FrancineLangeInNY.... You sound like someone on the Vh1 Message Board. Are you revstartsnow on that board? ???
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Post by alternative4 on Mar 19, 2005 21:59:53 GMT -5
tomas, this troll goes on many boards that has a Shania message board. She is sick and obsessed and has posted very criminal and violent things about Shania. She even uses some of the same screen names.
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tomasz77
Gold Member
Your biscuit, your beavage, I see your cooter cleavage
Joined: January 2006
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Post by tomasz77 on Mar 19, 2005 22:11:15 GMT -5
lol they call her whiskey on the VH1 Board. It's too bad she has nothing better to do.
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 19, 2005 22:31:30 GMT -5
IAGD was country...IANQ is country-er than IAGD, IMO... Those two songs are some of the closest things to Country Shania's ever done. (her first album, the one that flopped, was pure country, and No One Needs To Know was IMO and still is, Shania's all time best song. Period)
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bamafan2102
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Post by bamafan2102 on Mar 20, 2005 1:25:56 GMT -5
I understand that everyone has their opinion although some of the things I have put on this board may seem other wise. I was just trying to stir the pot a little. I type that to get to this, this new FrancineLange person has got to go. I just did a check and the only threads she has posted on have to do with Shania. This person has nothing to bring to the board, which by the way, I said the same thing about Steelo but he has come around and sometimes bring useful info to the board, but to come here just to bash and pick fights about one artist in general shouldn't be happening. I am a fairly new poster here with only about 200 post or so but I feel that the older posters as well as some of the newer posters are really uneasy about this poster.
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reidster
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Post by reidster on Mar 20, 2005 8:19:55 GMT -5
Those two songs are some of the closest things to Country Shania's ever done. (her first album, the one that flopped, was pure country, and No One Needs To Know was IMO and still is, Shania's all time best song. Period) Now, the first album, Shania Twain, was certified platinum... which, in the music business isn't really a flop.. but anywho.. I think The Woman In Me was pure country IMO.... and COO and Up! had a bit of both..
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 9:20:26 GMT -5
After 11 years it's still certified as one million copies, and it garnered two singles that didn't even crack the Country top 40. That is a flop anyway you look at it.
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 20, 2005 11:26:48 GMT -5
After 11 years it's still certified as one million copies, and it garnered two singles that didn't even crack the Country top 40. That is a flop anyway you look at it. And it hasn't been recertified since, hmm., let's see, 1999. That's almost 6 years ago.
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 12:27:55 GMT -5
Excatly, because in 6 years it hasn't sold enough to be re-certified, and because Shania wants to distance herself away from it. Note how her albums that keep being overcertified and over-shipped (BILLBOARD itself acknowledged that COO, TWIM and UP were all grossly overcertified) are only the ones that MUTT conceived, created, arranged and produced, and then her slapdash, amateurish lyrics were added to his music.
The first album was conceived, created and produced by talented Nashville people who know about country, and did a bang-up job of good country songs like What Made You Say That and Dance With The One That Brought Ya, but since country radio was already in thrall of Garth's arena ready pop-rock masquerading as country, Shania's first (and only all-country cd) flopped. Who wanted to hear country, when the labels were only willing to aggresively market those who like Garth, could bring in the massive pop-leaning audience?
Thus, Lange, with his extensive country background ;) created TWIM, which was a Def Leppard-By-Way-Of-Dolly-Parton cd, with an extra dose of Madonna-like sex appeal. Shipped 12 million copies, which made Lange happy.
Then COO came, and they totally abandoned any pretense of country...COO was pure badly-conceived arena rock and a pastiche of pseudo-feminism with faux sexual emancipation, with a dash of fiddles to keep an illusion of "country"... Shipped (but not sold) 20 million copies. What a shocker...
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 20, 2005 13:01:05 GMT -5
If TWIM isn't country, what do you think of Kenny Chesney's "When the Sun Goes Down" album? You don't post about anything but Shania, and everything you say I can shoot down with the real facts. TWIM - 7,500,000 - Certified 12 million COO - 15,261,642 - Certified 20 million UP - 5,500,000 - Certified 11 million (double) GH - 2,820,253 - Certified 3 million If you think that is bad, look at what Sony does to their artists.
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 13:25:09 GMT -5
TWIM - 7,500,000 - Certified 12 million COO - 15,261,642 - Certified 20 million UP - 5,500,000 - Certified 11 million (double) GH - 2,820,253 - Certified 3 million Exactly. Those are the certifications that BILLBOARD magazine talked about. As you can see , there is a huge discrepancy between the shipments and certifications and the actual sold numbers. And don't forget that many Music Clubs have those "buy two cds in the next six months and get 6 cds for free now", there's no way of knowing how many of Shania's cds have been literally given away in those things. The RIAA actually includes music clubs and online sales in their numbers(contrary to what many of her fans keep claiming): www.riaa.com/gp/certification/default.asp" We are often asked why we don’t just use sales figures from SoundScan. SoundScan measures over-the-counter sales at music retail locations, while the RIAA®'s certification levels are based on unit shipments (minus returns) from manufacturers to a wide range of accounts, including non-retail record clubs, mail order houses, specialty stores, units shipped for Internet fulfillment or direct marketing sales, such as TV-advertised albums." See? The problem I have is that many people like to "sell" the false and inaccurate idea that COO "sold" 20 million copies, etc, which it DID NOT. 15 million is a blockbuster number any way you look at it, so I don't see what the problem is in not reachin 20 million copies for real. But let's speak the facts as opposed to Mercury's inflated numbers to create buzz and nice little soundbites for Shania.
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 20, 2005 13:29:27 GMT -5
The RIAA actually includes music clubs and online sales in their numbers(contrary to what many of her fans keep claiming): www.riaa.com/gp/certification/default.asp" We are often asked why we don’t just use sales figures from SoundScan. SoundScan measures over-the-counter sales at music retail locations, while the RIAA®'s certification levels are based on unit shipments (minus returns) from manufacturers to a wide range of accounts, including non-retail record clubs, mail order houses, specialty stores, units shipped for Internet fulfillment or direct marketing sales, such as TV-advertised albums." Right, and Soundscan doesn't. That's why the number is so drastic. RIAA does count clubs and Internet, Soundscan doesn't. Plus, who knows how many copies are sitting in warehouse for Wal-Mart or Target..
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 13:43:22 GMT -5
Right, and Soundscan doesn't. That's why the number is so drastic. RIAA does count clubs and Internet, Soundscan doesn't. Plus, who knows how many copies are sitting in warehouse for Wal-Mart or Target.. Yep. Unsold copies. Copies that fans keep saying she did sell. If COO sold 15 or 16 million, that's great, but inflating the numbers? Nah! Remember how much Shania said that she wouldn't want the UP cd to be doubly certified because it would be like lying? And yet, when it happened, not a peep from her. And note how the double cd only got certified after shipping 5 million, enough to make it a "Diamond"...(her fans kept wondering "when will the album Platinum Status be acknowledged? etc...) Then, even her official website made a big brouhaha over UP "selling" 10 million copies. (even though she allegedly was opposed to it) But the GH was immediately certified even BEFORE reaching 3 million... Back to DON't... Sunday Mediabase update: Don't! compared to yesterday: Chart....from 24 to 24 Spins....from 1367 to 1365 Aud imp..from 10.145 to 10.242 It is still bulleted...but just barely... How DON't did in comparison to IOHWIB in their first ten weeks on Billboard's Country Singles And Tracks chart. IOHWIB: 50 - 43 - 39 - 34 - 31 - 31 - 29 - 27 - 26 - 26 Don't: 44 - 37 - 33 - 32 - 31 - 29 - 28 - 26 - 25 - probably 25 (You're My Better Half drops off, but Big & Rich's Big Time looks like it'll jump over Don't) Don't will probably peter out close to IOHWIB's chart peak, which was # 16. Considering the quality of the song, I would say even lower...
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Jonsolo
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Post by Jonsolo on Mar 20, 2005 13:52:49 GMT -5
Francine, If you're going to plagiarize what I post on Shania's CMT messageboard, I'd appreciate it if you at least give me credit.
Thanks.
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 20, 2005 13:58:10 GMT -5
Fracine, Did you read the payola thread? Like I stated there, labels don't ask the artists what they want. I doubt Shania had a choice whether 'UP' was double certified or not. Oh, and Don't! is also following "Forever and For Always". It peaked at #4.
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 14:04:10 GMT -5
So why not go out and at least acknowledge that the Double certification wasn't compatible with her previous reluctance to get it. Why not even a word? Just wondering, no big deal.
FAFA was a halfway decent song, and it was warmly embraced by radio audiences, BEYOND Shania's staunch fans , don't forget that. The same hasn't happened with DON't, thus the tepid reaction and the reluctance from radio to push it...
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Mar 20, 2005 14:06:49 GMT -5
So why not go out and at least acknowledge that the Double certification wasn't compatible with her previous reluctance to get it. Why not even a word? Just wondering, no big deal. I don't know, ask her. And there are many many albums that are certified double. If they were to be certified single, Come On Over would place higher on the all-time best sellers.
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Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Mar 20, 2005 14:17:09 GMT -5
I don't know, ask her. And there are many many albums that are certified double. If they were to be certified single, Come On Over would place higher on the all-time best sellers. The difference is clear: An album like the EVITA soundtrack or Pink Floyd's THE WALL or Billy Joel's Greatest Hits are double discs that contain two discs of entirely different songs, not two discs of the exact same songs and vocals, "dressed" in two different arrangements. That's all. Even Shania herself acknowledged how awkward she would allegedly feel if it was counted as TWO units for certification... So that clearly shows that Shania herself knows the difference between an album like UP and an album that offers two discs of new nusic each, like Outcasts's Speakerbox/The Love Below.
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Jonsolo
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Post by Jonsolo on Mar 20, 2005 15:35:23 GMT -5
Oh, and Don't! is also following "Forever and For Always". I'll go ahead and show that this statement is incorrect, but I'll do it here rather than at the end of the Mediabase Update thread on Shania's CMT board, to save Francine the trouble of stealing from me: First ten weeks on Billboard: Don't: 44 - 37 - 33 - 32 - 31 - 29 - 28 - 26 - 25 - probably 25 Forever And For Always: 60 - 49 - 37 - 32 - 28 - 27 - 24 - 23 - 20 - 14
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