Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 9, 2019 22:07:39 GMT -5
I just think it’s a little tacky since he’s not around to defend himself unlike R. Kelly. I say this as a general statement and not about MJ specifically. If someone was in fact abused and never got any real justice/closure, I don't see why it matters if their perpetrator is dead. Victims deserve the right to tell their story and heal. if there’s no evidence and someone is being accused that’s not right for the family of the accused either. Michael has children, a mother and brothers and sisters.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,538
|
Post by jenglisbe on Jan 9, 2019 22:18:40 GMT -5
I say this as a general statement and not about MJ specifically. If someone was in fact abused and never got any real justice/closure, I don't see why it matters if their perpetrator is dead. Victims deserve the right to tell their story and heal. if there’s no evidence and someone is being accused that’s not right for the family of the accused either. Michael has children, a mother and brothers and sisters. So, if you were a victim of assault and had no evidence of it, you would stay silent about it if your assailant was dead?
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 9, 2019 22:29:06 GMT -5
if there’s no evidence and someone is being accused that’s not right for the family of the accused either. Michael has children, a mother and brothers and sisters. So, if you were a victim of assault and had no evidence of it, you would stay silent about it if your assailant was dead? I perhaps would just tell people close to me, if that. I certainly wouldn’t go on a documentary. Then again, I’m not one to go airing out personal business for the world to see and comment on, much less for profit, which I am sure these people were paid for their participation in the film. I understand people cope in different ways but for *me*, it’s important to not let things, no matter how big or small, set you back and keep things that happened in the past right where they belong. Tomorrow’s another day to make better than the previous.
|
|
Enigma.
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 13,595
|
Post by Enigma. on Jan 10, 2019 0:44:53 GMT -5
This is interesting.. I mean what new have they discovered after all these years from legal perspective. Of course they have their right to be heard.
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Jan 10, 2019 8:00:19 GMT -5
MJ's etstate: “This is yet another lurid production in an outrageous and pathetic attempt to exploit and cash in on Michael Jackson,” adding that the two accusers had “both testified under oath that Michael never did anything inappropriate toward them” and “filed lawsuits against Michael’s Estate, asking for millions of dollars. Both lawsuits were dismissed.” The statement added: “This so called ‘documentary’ is just another rehash of dated and discredited allegations. It’s baffling why any credible filmmaker would involve himself with this project.” TMZ
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 10, 2019 8:08:37 GMT -5
MJ's etstate: “This is yet another lurid production in an outrageous and pathetic attempt to exploit and cash in on Michael Jackson,” adding that the two accusers had “both testified under oath that Michael never did anything inappropriate toward them” and “filed lawsuits against Michael’s Estate, asking for millions of dollars. Both lawsuits were dismissed.” The statement added: “This so called ‘documentary’ is just another rehash of dated and discredited allegations. It’s baffling why any credible filmmaker would involve himself with this project.” TMZSo basically one of them is Wade Robson
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Jan 10, 2019 8:13:06 GMT -5
MJ's etstate: “This is yet another lurid production in an outrageous and pathetic attempt to exploit and cash in on Michael Jackson,” adding that the two accusers had “both testified under oath that Michael never did anything inappropriate toward them” and “filed lawsuits against Michael’s Estate, asking for millions of dollars. Both lawsuits were dismissed.” The statement added: “This so called ‘documentary’ is just another rehash of dated and discredited allegations. It’s baffling why any credible filmmaker would involve himself with this project.” TMZSo basically one of them is Wade Robson Wade Robson and James Safechuck.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 13:51:17 GMT -5
As a lifelong huge fan of MJ, I wish I could say I don't believe the allegations. I can still listen to his music and enjoy it because I believe deep down he had a beautiful soul that was destroyed by his family life, fame, and circumstances. He was not well (mentally) and IMO was gay and had no clue how to cope.
I hope this documentary provides healing for those involved and possibly some insight into Michael's psyche.
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Jan 11, 2019 15:22:42 GMT -5
Well I don't believe these supposed allegations from two individuals who have in the past both testified under oath that he did not molest them. Which means if they are telling the truth now (which they are not), they lied under oath. That's a trustworthy, honest person right there, isn't it? In fact Robson would have had the perfect opportunity when he testified at the 2005 trial to say that MJ had molested him but failed to do so and Robson was one of the defence teams key witnesses. A case in which MJ was found not guilty on all charges. Here is a short synopsis from the transcript of that 2005 trial in which Robson testified, he was 22 at the time (Tom Mesereau was MJ's lawyer): "Mr. Robson, did Michael Jackson ever molest you at any time?" Mr. Mesereau. "Absolutely not," Robson said. "Did he ever touch you in a sexual way?" Mr. Mesereau. "No," said Robson. Asked what he did when he stayed in Jackson's room, Robson said they played video games, watched movies and talked. "We have pillow fights every now and again," Robson said. On cross-examination, Deputy District Attorney Ron Zonen attacked Robson's story. "What you're really telling us is that nothing happened while you were awake?" the prosecutor said. "I'm telling you nothing happened" said the witness. Transcripts*** If we're going to start a new trend of accusing dead celebrities of supposed past indiscretions it's time to give Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis a visit for their supposed pedophiliac behavior, to name but a few. I am so sick and tired of people believing headlines over actual facts. The information is out there for those that wish to learn the truth, both for the 2005 trial and for these two old - and tried in court - claims. Of course it would take effort to read all that when its much easier to believe a malicious headline. Why know the truth when ignorance is bliss? What is the end game here anyway? Michael is not around anymore so he can't go to jail (or defend himself), and if the supposed victims need closure than that is what psychiatrists are for. Why go the route of a documentary to get your supposed story heard (when it already has been laid out IN FULL in court documents)? Simple answer is money, attention and slander. These two will stop at nothing to discredit MJ, get paid for it and it's so disgusting. The whole "well they deserve to have their stories heard" is bull s**t because they did have the opportunity but failed to provide evidence to support it, on more than one occasion. There needs to be better defamation of character laws for dead people.
|
|
Nick
8x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2004
Posts: 8,682
|
Post by Nick on Jan 11, 2019 16:35:59 GMT -5
^Agreed. If he/they couldn’t prove anything while MJ was alive, then there clearly wasn’t enough evidence or truth to support these allegations. Michael can’t defend himself now and it’s unfair to slander him anymore.
|
|
dbhmr
Diamond Member
>
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 23,321
|
Post by dbhmr on Jan 11, 2019 16:43:39 GMT -5
What is the end game here anyway? Michael is not around anymore so he can't go to jail (or defend himself), and if the supposed victims need closure than that is what psychiatrists are for. Why go the route of a documentary to get your supposed story heard (when it already has been laid out IN FULL in court documents)? Simple answer is money, attention and slander. These two will stop at nothing to discredit MJ, get paid for it and it's so disgusting. The whole "well they deserve to have their stories heard" is bull s**t because they did have the opportunity but failed to provide evidence to support it, on more than one occasion. There needs to be better defamation of character laws for dead people. I don't really get how you ask "Why go the route of a documentary to get your supposed story heard (when it already has been laid out IN FULL in court documents)?" when, literally just prior, you chastise the majority of the public for not being interested in/putting in the work to read the court documents... The MJ allegations seem to always fall into one of two categories: vehement, unilateral defense of MJ, or extremely tasteless jokes/embellishments about MJ's behavior. Which has generally rendered me uninterested in the whole thing because the bias strikes hard both ways. I'm curious as to how this will play out, and if there are any additional accusations/victims who come forward, how that will be received. And honestly I'll just never get the perspective that death is your get-out-of-anything card and that your death should be, essentially, the last word. Especially in this case: if it really is just these same two accusers and their stories, then MJ did have the opportunity to defend himself, and if this documentary is anything decent at all, those defenses will be covered. If it's just a sensationalized few hours of discredited accusers' stories, the documentary will come and go without really moving the needle for anyone in any way.
|
|
jumpb4uthink
7x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2010
Posts: 7,315
|
Post by jumpb4uthink on Jan 11, 2019 17:31:17 GMT -5
This all is so depressing and sad. I feel for the families on both sides. Regardless, I’ll always treasure MJ and his music for the legend he is.
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Jan 11, 2019 17:56:33 GMT -5
I don't really get how you ask "Why go the route of a documentary to get your supposed story heard (when it already has been laid out IN FULL in court documents)?" when, literally just prior, you chastise the majority of the public for not being interested in/putting in the work to read the court documents... I knew I should have elaborated on that. Either the public can choose to get their information from a biased documentary (which is what this will be as none of these claims have been substantiated - in fact they have been dismissed in court), or they can take the time to actually read the court documents in relation to this case. Many people take documentaries as fact, and this will not be fact so choose a different route unless your goal is to mislead the public. I'll continue to chastise those that base their assumptions on headlines and not hard evidence, or lack thereof. And honestly I'll just never get the perspective that death is your get-out-of-anything card and that your death should be, essentially, the last word. Especially in this case: if it really is just these same two accusers and their stories, then MJ did have the opportunity to defend himself, and if this documentary is anything decent at all, those defenses will be covered. I don't believe that I said that his death should be a "get-out-of-anything card" so don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that he's not here to defend himself which is what anyone who is accused of such a heinous crime should be able to do. And no, he did not have the chance to defend himself against these two as their original accusations only surfaced in 2013, 4 years after his death. So, it will most likely be a sensationalized few hours of discredited accusers' stories.
|
|
dbhmr
Diamond Member
>
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 23,321
|
Post by dbhmr on Jan 11, 2019 19:17:40 GMT -5
I'll continue to chastise those that base their assumptions on headlines and not hard evidence, or lack thereof. Like, deciding an unaired documentary is a sensationalized cash grab before so much as a trailer is released? 🤔😉 Oh I didn’t realize that. So, in spite of not being to defend himself in person, the charges were proved false?
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Jan 11, 2019 19:41:18 GMT -5
I'll continue to chastise those that base their assumptions on headlines and not hard evidence, or lack thereof. Like, deciding an unaired documentary is a sensationalized cash grab before so much as a trailer is released? 🤔😉 Oh I didn’t realize that. So, in spite of not being to defend himself in person, the charges were proved false? Ha-ha, well having actually educated myself on these two individuals and their shady past (and their official stories) I feel I can justify my expectations of this documentary. I'm not basing my opinion on a headline. 😉 Their cases never made it to trial (they sued the estate since MJ was deceased) and a lack of evidence got them dismissed. So, not proven false per se but also not enough evidence to go to trial. I wish I had a link to a useful article about the case for you. It surprisingly didn't receive the type of coverage you'd expect from a case involving MJ (possibly because it was well documented that the two involved had previously under oath both testified that MJ did not molest them, so it may not have held as much weight) but I do remember seeing a few good articles about it.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 15, 2019 13:17:05 GMT -5
Happy 27th Anniversary to one of the greatest music videos of all time. Remember The Time premiered 27 years ago today. One of the earliest memories I have as a child is watching the premiere, I believe on FOX, gathered around the TV with my parents and siblings. I can rememebr laying on my stomach with my hands supporting my head, being SO excited to see Michael's new video. It remains my favorite video of his to this day.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 19, 2019 22:08:13 GMT -5
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Jan 22, 2019 19:01:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by KeepDeanWeird on Mar 4, 2019 17:36:23 GMT -5
Vanity Fair recently published this: 10 Undeniable Facts About the Michael Jackson Sexual-Abuse AllegationsI guess Oprah has a special after Finding Neverland airs, which kind of moves this to a different level. I wonder if this will move MJ into Kells territory. I'm quite torn because I love a lot of his music, but should his art really be treated differently than Kells - I mean Celine and Lady GaGa reissued their albums without his track, the alleged radio embargo, etc.? I honestly don't know the answer here.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 17:52:37 GMT -5
The bottom line is there will never be justice or vindication for either side in this, and both sides will just have to deal with that fact. He's gone so he can't be proven innocent or guilty at the end of the day, which means no #MuteMJ movement or anything of the sort.
The victims have every right to express themselves but because both Robson and the other one have made inaccurate statements which were immediately clocked as the documentary aired (and Robson has been clocked multiple times before and after that on separate ocassions) , it poses enough doubt for fans of MJ to counter the entire credibility of the documentary since it centers around them two. And the fact that both of them were caught lying about certain facts doesn't take away or discount their story or experience of abuse either, it's possible for both situations to co-exist. It's just that there will never be a clear cut, definitive answer and backlash is naturally to be expected by either side due to that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 14:04:43 GMT -5
Watched all 4 hours of the doc, and, honestly, MJ lost me as a fan. I've always loved his music, was dying to see him in concert -- but this is just too much. I will never be able to unsee him as a twister predator. Say all you want, these guys are NOT lying. There's just... no way.
If you still want to be a fan of MJ's, don't watch.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Mar 17, 2019 18:28:26 GMT -5
I was so happy to get home and hear that the doorman in my building was playing “They Dont Care About Us” on a loud speaker. I told him “man, I love this song” and he smiled and said “me too MJs the best”.
I honestly got a little emotional as I entered the elevator. The love for the King of Pop is going no where despite best efforts to do the contrary.
|
|
JayBoozer
7x Platinum Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 7,693
|
Post by JayBoozer on Mar 18, 2019 16:01:26 GMT -5
I was so happy to get home and hear that the doorman in my building was playing “They Dont Care About Us” on a loud speaker. I told him “man, I love this song” and he smiled and said “me too MJs the best”. I honestly got a little emotional as I entered the elevator. The love for the King of Pop is going no where despite best efforts to do the contrary. Just curious... did you watch the documentary?
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Mar 18, 2019 16:24:25 GMT -5
Girl he don’t care bout no molester! 🕺
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Mar 18, 2019 16:56:18 GMT -5
I was so happy to get home and hear that the doorman in my building was playing “They Dont Care About Us” on a loud speaker. I told him “man, I love this song” and he smiled and said “me too MJs the best”. I honestly got a little emotional as I entered the elevator. The love for the King of Pop is going no where despite best efforts to do the contrary. Just curious... did you watch the documentary? yes I watched the hit piece.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Oct 4, 2019 6:20:46 GMT -5
Becomes first solo artist to hit over 6 Billion streams on Spotify!
|
|
George
Diamond Member
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 21,456
|
Post by George on Oct 5, 2019 20:39:17 GMT -5
I was wondering if #SquareOneMJ trending was about Michael, and turns out it is due to this documentary that premiered on YouTube:
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Oct 7, 2019 11:41:56 GMT -5
I was wondering if #SquareOneMJ trending was about Michael, and turns out it is due to this documentary that premiered on YouTube Yeah, it's the documentary with new evidence from 1993 allegations and it's garnering a lot of attention. In other news, The Simpsons has re-added their iconic, and arguably most famous episode, which features Michael.
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on Oct 10, 2019 17:37:02 GMT -5
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Oct 10, 2019 20:02:34 GMT -5
I won’t even get started on how annoying this is, the estate can be so clueless at times 🤦♂️
|
|