Billboard Hot 100: 01/16/2016

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 6, 2016 13:10:54 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

For one, the 20s, 30s, and 40s are a lot more removed from me than the 80s and 90s are from current teens, so that isn't a truly relevant comparison.

You're harping on how people should familiarize themselves with the greats of generations past so this was an example of that. It's not about how "far removed" one is from a period of time because some people are never exposed to it in the first place, whether it's 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
My point still stands. You force your perspective and values on others.

[Gary]

 I just googled a list of the top music stars of the 1920s, of the 100 or so names on the list I recognized about 3 of them and even of those, I probably couldn't name too many songs

 

 

[jj99$ - - LeLe]

i failed at 20s. LOL

for 30s the top two songs are;
www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/1930-39s.htm

Rank All Time Rank Artist Song Year
1 72 Billie Holiday
Strange Fruit
1939
2 319 Judy Garland
Over the Rainbow
1939

I would like to think most people know these, but again i might be wrong.


For 40s, I know these,
www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/1940-49s.htm

4 608 Bing Crosby
White Christmas
1942

6 781 Edith Piaf
La Vie en rose
1945

8 863 Billie Holiday
God Bless the Child
1941

31 2208 Nat King Cole
Straighten Up and Fly Right
1944

[jenglisbe]

Jan 6, 2016 16:11:27 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Jan 6, 2016 13:10:54 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

For one, the 20s, 30s, and 40s are a lot more removed from me than the 80s and 90s are from current teens, so that isn't a truly relevant comparison.

You're harping on how people should familiarize themselves with the greats of generations past so this was an example of that. It's not about how "far removed" one is from a period of time because some people are never exposed to it in the first place, whether it's 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
My point still stands. You force your perspective and values on others.

Of course how far removed someone is matters. AC, rock, and other radio stations regularly play music from the past 30-40 years, but not music from the 1930s. There have been recent 'trends' where the 80s and 90s have come back into pop culture. When is the last time the 40s was a trend? I'm just saying there is certainly more opportunity - without even having to consciously look for it - for people to hear 80s and 90s music than to hear music from 75 years ago.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 6, 2016 17:09:53 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jan 6, 2016 16:11:27 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

You're harping on how people should familiarize themselves with the greats of generations past so this was an example of that. It's not about how "far removed" one is from a period of time because some people are never exposed to it in the first place, whether it's 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
My point still stands. You force your perspective and values on others.

Of course how far removed someone is matters. AC, rock, and other radio stations regularly play music from the past 30-40 years, but not music from the 1930s. There have been recent 'trends' where the 80s and 90s have come back into pop culture. When is the last time the 40s was a trend? I'm just saying there is certainly more opportunity - without even having to consciously look for it - for people to hear 80s and 90s music than to hear music from 75 years ago.

Oh good. So you do understand that not everyone has the same opportunities to hear the same kinds of music from the 80s and 90s that you do. Glad we finally agree. :)

[Au$tin]

Jan 6, 2016 14:58:36 GMT -5 carreramd said:

Jan 6, 2016 14:54:44 GMT -5 ry4n said:

"Out Of The Woods" would be a re-entry, not a debut ;)

And I don't think it will surpass its peak...

At least not this week. It could in the future, but it's way too early to tell at this point.

[YourFaveIsAFlop]

Jan 6, 2016 17:09:53 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jan 6, 2016 16:11:27 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

You're harping on how people should familiarize themselves with the greats of generations past so this was an example of that. It's not about how "far removed" one is from a period of time because some people are never exposed to it in the first place, whether it's 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
My point still stands. You force your perspective and values on others.

Of course how far removed someone is matters. AC, rock, and other radio stations regularly play music from the past 30-40 years, but not music from the 1930s. There have been recent 'trends' where the 80s and 90s have come back into pop culture. When is the last time the 40s was a trend? I'm just saying there is certainly more opportunity - without even having to consciously look for it - for people to hear 80s and 90s music than to hear music from 75 years ago.

There was a big band revival in the late 90s. Short lived, but it existed. And then there was Back to Basics in what 06? So 40s sounds do make a comeback from time to time.

[imbuemyblue]

I know, especially as an infrequent poster, I should stay on topic, but I wanted to give my two cents about the exposure young people do or do not have to older music. I, personally, would 'expect' people to know Madonna and Mariah, not because I was alive during their heyday, but because I was aware of artists popular 10-20 years before I was of age when I was a teen. I would be surprised that others wouldn't be aware, because I simply was without much effort. I heard these 'old' songs on the radio, or when my older siblings and parents played them, saw them on MTV and VH1 in various shows, or in commercials and movies. I wasn't deliberately seeking them out, and yet I knew them.

I completely agree with jenglisbe about the distance between generations, as well. The 40s simply aren't a valid comparison because they are 40 years farther away. Far fewer people are alive who remember the 40s than there are who remember the 80s and 90s, thus the legacy of those eras are more likely to be carried down to younger generations.

As for the Hot 100, I'm eager to see if Adele will squeak out another week for double digit weeks at #1!

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 6, 2016 18:25:42 GMT -5 imbuemyblue said:

I, personally, would 'expect' people to know Madonna and Mariah, not because I was alive during their heyday, but because I was aware of artists popular 10-20 years before I was of age when I was a teen. I would be surprised that others wouldn't be aware, because I simply was without much effort. I heard these 'old' songs on the radio, or when my older siblings and parents played them, saw them on MTV and VH1 in various shows, or in commercials and movies. I wasn't deliberately seeking them out, and yet I knew them.

The key word in all of these replies is "I". "I was aware," "I heard." Not everyone has older siblings, or parents who listen to music, or MTV and VH1. That's kind of my point. You have your experiences. Everyone else has theirs that differ. Especially today, a lot of people 25 and under don't listen to radio as actively as 20-30-40 years ago so potential exposure is limited even more. I'm sure most people 15 and over have heard of all of the artists talked about in this side discussion (and I apologize for dragging it out more than it really needed to be) but most of their songs haven't surpassed the test of time - thus bringing this right back to the original topic starter: One Sweet Day.

Rather than "expect" younger generations to know what we know, we can learn how the pop culture that we grew up with continues to, or not, have an impact today. It's only a matter of time before even the giants of the 80s and 90s slip in familiarity like the way the names of generations past have slipped from being in our collective mindsets growing up. It's a natural progression. It's going to happen and it already has. The end.

[Ravi]

---

[jenglisbe]

Jan 6, 2016 18:25:42 GMT -5 imbuemyblue said:

I know, especially as an infrequent poster, I should stay on topic, but I wanted to give my two cents about the exposure young people do or do not have to older music. I, personally, would 'expect' people to know Madonna and Mariah, not because I was alive during their heyday, but because I was aware of artists popular 10-20 years before I was of age when I was a teen. I would be surprised that others wouldn't be aware, because I simply was without much effort. I heard these 'old' songs on the radio, or when my older siblings and parents played them, saw them on MTV and VH1 in various shows, or in commercials and movies. I wasn't deliberately seeking them out, and yet I knew them.

I completely agree with jenglisbe about the distance between generations, as well. The 40s simply aren't a valid comparison because they are 40 years farther away. Far fewer people are alive who remember the 40s than there are who remember the 80s and 90s, thus the legacy of those eras are more likely to be carried down to younger generations.

As for the Hot 100, I'm eager to see if Adele will squeak out another week for double digit weeks at #1!

Right. It's no different with movies. Most people know more movies from the 80s and 90s than the 40s.

[Gary]

Well...some of the classic Disney cartoons got its start in the 40s

People tend to apply their own personal experiences to the rest of the world and say well.. since it happens in my world it clearly happens everywhere else.

That is not necessarily the case. Everyone's experiences are different.

For example, Some of us here who study the history of popular music and chart trends have a deeper knowledge about older music than those who don't but that does not mean everyone has that same knowledge or even cares to.

[jenglisbe]

Jan 7, 2016 9:56:04 GMT -5 Gary said:

Well...some of the classic Disney cartoons got its start in the 40s

I didn't say people don't know any movies from then.

[Gary]

Jan 7, 2016 10:00:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jan 7, 2016 9:56:04 GMT -5 Gary said:

Well...some of the classic Disney cartoons got its start in the 40s

I didn't say people don't know any movies from then.

No you generalized it as "most" know more from the 80s than the 40s based on your own perception.  Example, Classic kid shows and movies did not get their start in the 80s.  So just like everything else, your statement may be true based on your perception and it may be true depending on who you ask but, it may not be true necessarily as a general statement.

[imbuemyblue]

I think we can all safely say our opinions about this matter are all conjecture. Just because one teen doesn't know who Whitney is doesn't mean most teens today know less about stars of the past than we did, just as my idea that because I knew about older stars without trying, others might as well. I'm curious about the idea that kids might listen to the radio less, since radio audiences appear to be booming. Is this thought based on anything other than anecdotal evidence?

Regardless, I do think we've hit upon something interesting, and I enjoy hearing opinions on both sides.

[Gary]

Well...OK


I think it is fair to say that teens and kids that listen to top 40 radio and watch Disney/Nickolodeon will not see/hear Whitney or Mariah or Madonna. The current, trendy artists that dominate the charts will show up on these channels, since the artists we are discussing are from a prior generation, they will not have a presence on Disney/Nick/Top 40.


Do all kids only list to top 40 radio or just watch Disney? No of course not. Do most? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on who you ask. The labels "all" or "most" are obviously opinions based on personal perception.

There are obviously lots of kids into other things. All experiences are different.

[felipe]

Jan 6, 2016 18:51:48 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Jan 6, 2016 18:25:42 GMT -5 imbuemyblue said:

I, personally, would 'expect' people to know Madonna and Mariah, not because I was alive during their heyday, but because I was aware of artists popular 10-20 years before I was of age when I was a teen. I would be surprised that others wouldn't be aware, because I simply was without much effort. I heard these 'old' songs on the radio, or when my older siblings and parents played them, saw them on MTV and VH1 in various shows, or in commercials and movies. I wasn't deliberately seeking them out, and yet I knew them.

The key word in all of these replies is "I". "I was aware," "I heard." Not everyone has older siblings, or parents who listen to music, or MTV and VH1. That's kind of my point. You have your experiences. Everyone else has theirs that differ. Especially today, a lot of people 25 and under don't listen to radio as actively as 20-30-40 years ago so potential exposure is limited even more. I'm sure most people 15 and over have heard of all of the artists talked about in this side discussion (and I apologize for dragging it out more than it really needed to be) but most of their songs haven't surpassed the test of time - thus bringing this right back to the original topic starter: One Sweet Day.

Rather than "expect" younger generations to know what we know, we can learn how the pop culture that we grew up with continues to, or not, have an impact today. It's only a matter of time before even the giants of the 80s and 90s slip in familiarity like the way the names of generations past have slipped from being in our collective mindsets growing up. It's a natural progression. It's going to happen and it already has. The end.

Let's imagine we're in a film message board then and someone says they don't know Titanic because it's from before they were born. Or The Godfather. Would it be ok for this person to say "Never heard about these films and don't care. I won't even bother looking them up" or would it be OK for other posters to expect them to be familiarized with these movies? Or imagine someone saying "Never heard about Star Wars. I know there's a new one but thought it was an original movie." Would this person sound silly for saying that or is it just a person who, despite being part of a film message board and thus displaying some sort of interest in cinema, never had the opportunity to know what Star Wars is?

[felipe]

Jan 6, 2016 11:30:21 GMT -5 Gary said:

Jan 6, 2016 11:21:58 GMT -5 @broccoli said:

^ read my last post again. i have nothing else to say. i'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. if you want to defend those that choose to tout their ignorance in a music forum, good for you. go nuts. but i'm not interested, sorry.

LOL

You are interested enough to post the rants that you posted

Your use of the word "ignorance" is something that I have an issue with.    If someone chooses to not be as well versed as you on historical music figures, that is not a failing, that could possibly be they may not be interested in that. 

But if someone chooses not to be interested in something they don't even know, wouldn't that be based on ignorance?

As in "I love literature, but I have never heard about Shakespeare and have no interest in looking it up." Don't you think someone would sound stupid saying that? I'm NOT saying that person must like Shakespeare or even read Shakespeare. But after a quick search and finding out he's the guy who wrote this or that play, the person could say "I don't think Shakespeare is really for me."

I do have an issue with people who choose not to learn anything about anything and who'd rather just take what's being fed to them. There's so much great music to listen to besides what's being played on the radio this week.

[Gary]

I will respond "no comment".


This topic is done.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 9, 2016 9:02:00 GMT -5 felipe said:

Jan 6, 2016 18:51:48 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

The key word in all of these replies is "I". "I was aware," "I heard." Not everyone has older siblings, or parents who listen to music, or MTV and VH1. That's kind of my point. You have your experiences. Everyone else has theirs that differ. Especially today, a lot of people 25 and under don't listen to radio as actively as 20-30-40 years ago so potential exposure is limited even more. I'm sure most people 15 and over have heard of all of the artists talked about in this side discussion (and I apologize for dragging it out more than it really needed to be) but most of their songs haven't surpassed the test of time - thus bringing this right back to the original topic starter: One Sweet Day.

Rather than "expect" younger generations to know what we know, we can learn how the pop culture that we grew up with continues to, or not, have an impact today. It's only a matter of time before even the giants of the 80s and 90s slip in familiarity like the way the names of generations past have slipped from being in our collective mindsets growing up. It's a natural progression. It's going to happen and it already has. The end.

Let's imagine we're in a film message board then and someone says they don't know Titanic because it's from before they were born. Or The Godfather. Would it be ok for this person to say "Never heard about these films and don't care. I won't even bother looking them up" or would it be OK for other posters to expect them to be familiarized with these movies? Or imagine someone saying "Never heard about Star Wars. I know there's a new one but thought it was an original movie." Would this person sound silly for saying that or is it just a person who, despite being part of a film message board and thus displaying some sort of interest in cinema, never had the opportunity to know what Star Wars is?

No one here has said they never heard of those artists though. They're just not familiar with them or have limited familiarity beyond a couple songs. There's a clear difference.
As an aside, I've never seen a Star Wars movie either.

[felipe]

Jan 9, 2016 11:12:56 GMT -5 Codex said:

Jan 9, 2016 9:02:00 GMT -5 felipe said:

Let's imagine we're in a film message board then and someone says they don't know Titanic because it's from before they were born. Or The Godfather. Would it be ok for this person to say "Never heard about these films and don't care. I won't even bother looking them up" or would it be OK for other posters to expect them to be familiarized with these movies? Or imagine someone saying "Never heard about Star Wars. I know there's a new one but thought it was an original movie." Would this person sound silly for saying that or is it just a person who, despite being part of a film message board and thus displaying some sort of interest in cinema, never had the opportunity to know what Star Wars is?

There's a difference between the highest grossing movies of all time, and random Whitney Houston singles. Everyone knows I Will Always Love You and I Wanna Dance With Somebody, those are her only 2 songs in the Top 400 most successful songs of all time. I'm just guessing, but there have probably been around 10000 top10 songs in the US since 1980, even if you know 8000 of them, there will always be someone saying that #8001 had huge impact and how dare you not know it. My 9 year old cousin knows Baby One More Time, Oops, Toxic and Womanizer, I'm not going to bitch at her for not knowing Crazy, just be happy that she knows the basics at least. If someone doesn't like the main hits of an artist, why would they look deep into their discography?

But isn't not knowing the highest-grossing films of all time similar to being on a Hot 100 thread and not knowing the song that holds the record for most weeks at #1 - a record that is brought up almost weekly here? Doesn't the person feel the slighest curiosity to check?

But I agree with you that if you don't like someone's main hits there's no need to look deeper.

[felipe]

Jan 9, 2016 12:49:14 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Jan 9, 2016 9:02:00 GMT -5 felipe said:

Let's imagine we're in a film message board then and someone says they don't know Titanic because it's from before they were born. Or The Godfather. Would it be ok for this person to say "Never heard about these films and don't care. I won't even bother looking them up" or would it be OK for other posters to expect them to be familiarized with these movies? Or imagine someone saying "Never heard about Star Wars. I know there's a new one but thought it was an original movie." Would this person sound silly for saying that or is it just a person who, despite being part of a film message board and thus displaying some sort of interest in cinema, never had the opportunity to know what Star Wars is?

No one here has said they never heard of those artists though. They're just not familiar with them or have limited familiarity beyond a couple songs. There's a clear difference.
As an aside, I've never seen a Star Wars movie either.

I believe someone said on page 6 they didn't know Whitney Houston or I Will Always Love You (I don't know if that was true though). I think it's OK to say you only know a couple of Whitney Houston songs or that you didn't bother checking for more because you didn't like those. But it bothers me that someone would have an attitude that's like "I'm familiar with Mariah Carey's recent songs - and I actually enjoy them - but I don't know the older ones because they're old", as if it'd take major effort to type the words on youtube, or as if music and culture in general were disposable and the only thing of value was what's hot right now.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 9, 2016 13:57:58 GMT -5 felipe said:

Jan 9, 2016 12:49:14 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

No one here has said they never heard of those artists though. They're just not familiar with them or have limited familiarity beyond a couple songs. There's a clear difference.
As an aside, I've never seen a Star Wars movie either.

I believe someone said on page 6 they didn't know Whitney Houston or I Will Always Love You (I don't know if that was true though). I think it's OK to say you only know a couple of Whitney Houston songs or that you didn't bother checking for more because you didn't like those. But it bothers me that someone would have an attitude that's like "I'm familiar with Mariah Carey's recent songs - and I actually enjoy them - but I don't know the older ones because they're old", as if it'd take major effort to type the words on youtube, or as if music and culture in general were disposable and the only thing of value was what's hot right now.

Considering so many people lack knowledge of basic history in so many different areas, I don't think it's that crazy that someone wouldn't have the interest to check out old Mariah songs if they don't care enough about her new music to do so. It's not that big an issue nor is it that unbelievable.

[felipe]

Jan 9, 2016 14:18:28 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Jan 9, 2016 13:57:58 GMT -5 felipe said:

I believe someone said on page 6 they didn't know Whitney Houston or I Will Always Love You (I don't know if that was true though). I think it's OK to say you only know a couple of Whitney Houston songs or that you didn't bother checking for more because you didn't like those. But it bothers me that someone would have an attitude that's like "I'm familiar with Mariah Carey's recent songs - and I actually enjoy them - but I don't know the older ones because they're old", as if it'd take major effort to type the words on youtube, or as if music and culture in general were disposable and the only thing of value was what's hot right now.

Considering so many people lack knowledge of basic history in so many different areas, I don't think it's that crazy that someone wouldn't have the interest to check out old Mariah songs if they don't care enough about her new music to do so. It's not that big an issue nor is it that unbelievable.

I know a lot of people lack knowledge about basic stuff in general, I'm not trying to refute that, I just don't think it's admirable. I do think it's admirable to be curious, interested, eager to learn more. Someone who says they don't know who Whitney Houston was, I wouldn't be surprised by how much else they don't know.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 9, 2016 19:40:03 GMT -5 felipe said:

Jan 9, 2016 14:18:28 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Considering so many people lack knowledge of basic history in so many different areas, I don't think it's that crazy that someone wouldn't have the interest to check out old Mariah songs if they don't care enough about her new music to do so. It's not that big an issue nor is it that unbelievable.

I know a lot of people lack knowledge about basic stuff in general, I'm not trying to refute that, I just don't think it's admirable. I do think it's admirable to be curious, interested, eager to learn more. Someone who says they don't know who Whitney Houston was, I wouldn't be surprised by how much else they don't know.

Who says it's admirable? I'm simply saying it's not that unrealistic or unexpected or even that big a deal.

[felipe]

I'm not saying it's unexpected or unrealistic, I know a lot of people who don't know much about anything. Don't you think it's nice for people to know more about culture and stuff in general?

Like I said about One Sweet Day, the song may be pretty much forgotten everywhere else, but it's brought up on this thread on a weekly basis anytime there's the mention of the record being threatened. Are some people so apathetic that they would follow this thread and not be the slighest curious the check the song that holds this big record everyone's talking about?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Probably. I doubt I'd care, to be honest.

[Deleted]

[Gary]

[jj99$ - - LeLe]

This Thread....

I see you Felipe, Lol, throwing that underhand shade.