theflying
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Post by theflying on Aug 10, 2019 23:12:14 GMT -5
That Billboard article is so spot on. This song hits its mood, lyrics, and tone JUST right. As much as I “recognize” that Never Really Over is more epic, to me, this is even more of a bop. I really think most people in this thread are way overthinking this and putting pressure on the song to revive an entire career and listening to it through that lens.
Like, I don’t know how you’re not bopping to this on repeat.
To me, this song and Never Really Over are such a triumphant return to form. These two songs feel like the true post Teenage Dream Katy - mature, nuanced lyrics that insanely catchy and keep her fun, quirky personality.
Lastly, I just think her vocal performance on this song is SO good. This feels like a secretly very tricky song to sing - there’s a lot of register transitions that happen very quickly that need to — as the article astutely points out — not be oversold. And IDK, I just think she sounds *great* on this.
I’m so happy for Katy for finding this. I feel like her fans should be ecstatic, and it’s such a bummer to see so many people just... missing it.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 10, 2019 23:28:19 GMT -5
That Billboard article is so spot on. This song hits its mood, lyrics, and tone JUST right. As much as I “recognize” that Never Really Over is more epic, to me, this is even more of a bop. I really think most people in this thread are way overthinking this and putting pressure on the song to revive an entire career and listening to it through that lens. Like, I don’t know how you’re not bopping to this on repeat. To me, this song and Never Really Over are such a triumphant return to form. These two songs feel like the true post Teenage Dream Katy - mature, nuanced lyrics that insanely catchy and keep her fun, quirky personality. Lastly, I just think her vocal performance on this song is SO good. This feels like a secretly very tricky song to sing - there’s a lot of register transitions that happen very quickly that need to — as the article astutely points out — not be oversold. And IDK, I just think she sounds *great* on this. I’m so happy for Katy for finding this. I feel like her fans should be ecstatic, and it’s such a bummer to see so many people just... missing it. I’m not missing it. I agree with everything you said. I think I’ve already listened to this as many times as NRO, even tho that will always be referred to as the superior song. And it rightfully should. But this is no slouch. It’s right behind.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 11, 2019 0:12:37 GMT -5
Katy Perry definitely has a fanbase. Go to the YouTube comments of any video, or IG post, and you’ll see them. They just aren’t as rabid as Taylor or Gaga fans. And that’s ok. And besides, just because a rabid fanbase can turn something technically into a hit, doesn’t mean the material is actually any good. Is there literally anyone arguing any of these points (Katy has no fans, none are fanatical, quality is measured by success) you are trying to make (cause I am struggling to find them)? lol
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 11, 2019 0:27:04 GMT -5
A dead horse, but her predominant issue was/is the inability to reinvent her image and brand in a way that is that superior to the raven haired, quirky, pin up girl aesthetic that she circulated for the greater part of 7 years. Superficial and ridiculous, but image has and will always be more important than content for teenagers/ pop music listeners. I don't think she ever truly developed a strong core fanbase or had any truly solid, consistent identity as an artist and, beyond the melodies, people had nothing to latch onto if that makes sense (which likely is due, even by self-admission, to the fact that she fell into playing a role). Katy Perry's image is pretty much built on the back of the superficial side of the music business (sex appeal, on-trend material, hit-making etc) and when those go, so does her relevance. I agree here 100%. As how famous people come up and how they interact with their audiences evolve, we're becoming more and more obsessed with personas and private lives, something the old Hollywood and recording artists never had to handle. It is kind of almost a Nicki/Cardi difference too, where one has been known to be a hitmaker and a doll and the female MC while her private life has been discussed minimally, while the other appeared on a reality show, had a very public pregnancy/break up/reconciliation journey, is a social media star overall. Katy Perry in her prime was the ultimate artist everyone from age 5 to 95 could listen to, follow on socials, and not be offended by at all, and even when her marriage fell apart in 2011 it was less of an event than, say, Taylor Swift baking cookies for her in 2019. I think she's matured and learned a lot through the Witness era and it shows, so I can't wait for her to be on TV again and do a sit-down interview of some sorts.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 11, 2019 3:00:50 GMT -5
Just my two cents as a casual fan: I think she's in a kind of no man's land currently with her music which is the field where all pop stars have to step at one point in their career. Some go and find their artistic side more (Miley recently for instance) and some want to cling onto the airplay and statistics and are afraid of their career facing a slump which is inevitable so enduring the artistic side could actually provide better results in the long run.
I think Katy is kind of in-between those two but choosing to go for the latter and making songs that are strictly meant as mainstream hits and airplay success. It worked for Pink as her songs were amazing but Katy hasn't found the same quality yet and this certainly isn't it (although it's better than Pink's latest stuff).
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 11, 2019 8:38:37 GMT -5
Where are the radio updates?
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Aug 11, 2019 9:11:30 GMT -5
Better question; where's radio? Only 131 spins on the Spincrease list. :sip2:
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wavey.✨️
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Post by wavey.✨️ on Aug 11, 2019 10:00:01 GMT -5
A promo single? Maybe because HIH is still poised to be released soon?
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Taylor.
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Post by Taylor. on Aug 11, 2019 10:17:53 GMT -5
Promo singles don't get adds dates.
Wonder if they'll pull it though.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Aug 11, 2019 10:29:28 GMT -5
The song hasn't even gone for adds yet. Too early to call this a flop. Its only been out 3 days.
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Post by World top 40 on Aug 11, 2019 10:58:15 GMT -5
After several spins I have to recognize that I really like it. But I don't know exactly why yet
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 11:40:14 GMT -5
Spotify numbers dropped to 496K/#27 on day 2. Well, now I feel that it is safe to say this isn't sticking and may get pulled (or HIH thrown out very quickly to move on from this).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 11:58:38 GMT -5
The song hasn't even gone for adds yet. Too early to call this a flop. Its only been out 3 days. Yeah but no, this is not a quality build-up single for the new artist, this is the second single after "almost happened" comeback single. I can see similarities with "Bon Appetite" which should have been at least top 20 single, it wasn't "that bad"(I totally enjoyed it). I think that Katy Perry's problem is getting too big and too good, now it's really struggling to reach the expectations and if the material is only a bit under, she is out of playlists. Of course there is still hanging over her the political aspect. I doubt she will get another top 10, if she could only write and produce wholly her own material, but we know what happened to Clarkson.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 11, 2019 12:09:20 GMT -5
General listeners do not know who Julia Michaels is or what a BeBe Rexha is. I would find it incredibly hard to believe after the success of Meant to Be people wouldn't know who Bebe Rexha is. Even Julia Michaels, even just for that annoying Issues song. . Not to support the original post and it's general dumbness, but those are two of the most faceless hits in recent memory. I still don't know how Julia looks and I've heard multiple tracks she's done. Just like I don't expect the GP to know who Ava Max is at this point in her career.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 11, 2019 15:17:58 GMT -5
People can know a song without having an idea who the artist is. Despite how many hits Bebe has had or been featured on, her nor her label or team have done a good job putting her out there or done much to create an image around her as an artist. And maybe it’s not a terrible thing if she can continue getting featured on hits.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 11, 2019 15:30:33 GMT -5
People can know a song without having an idea who the artist is. Despite how many hits Bebe has had or been featured on, her nor her label or team have done a good job putting her out there or done much to create an image around her as an artist. And maybe it’s not a terrible thing if she can continue getting featured on hits. Yeah I find Bebe to be generally annoying but her All Your Fault, Pt 1 EP was really good, with her Expectations album being also decent. As much as I like her songwriting, persona-wise the only culturally relevant thing about her was this livestream moment she had a while back:
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Post by Exclusive on Aug 11, 2019 18:23:12 GMT -5
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Aug 11, 2019 18:36:47 GMT -5
it's really flattering that all of pulse holds katy to such a high standard.. but could you like not? everyone's so worried about whether this will chart on the hot 100, or whether this will hit top 20 on top.. just judge the music. People like Carly Rae Jepsen, Charli XCX, Tove Lo, etc. have few/no chart success and people still like their music. just enjoy the song. or don't listen to it.
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 11, 2019 20:08:42 GMT -5
People can know a song without having an idea who the artist is. Despite how many hits Bebe has had or been featured on, her nor her label or team have done a good job putting her out there or done much to create an image around her as an artist. And maybe it’s not a terrible thing if she can continue getting featured on hits. Yeah I find Bebe to be generally annoying but her All Your Fault, Pt 1 EP was really good, with her Expectations album being also decent. As much as I like her songwriting, persona-wise the only culturally relevant thing about her was this livestream moment she had a while back: "Rexars and bad bitches"
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 11, 2019 22:43:27 GMT -5
it's really flattering that all of pulse holds katy to such a high standard.. but could you like not? everyone's so worried about whether this will chart on the hot 100, or whether this will hit top 20 on top.. just judge the music. People like Carly Rae Jepsen, Charli XCX, Tove Lo, etc. have few/no chart success and people still like their music. just enjoy the song. or don't listen to it. I know. People consider “Run Away With Me” as one of the best pop songs of all time, and yet I don’t even think it charted on the Hot 100. Small Talk is amazing. It’s so fun to sing along to. It’s a great follow-up, and the Billboard article is 100% right.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 12, 2019 3:01:05 GMT -5
But the thing is, "best pop songs of all time" are usually exceptional anthems and Katy Perry has made some of "best pop songs of all time" and they have been exceptional anthems. This isn't that.
Anyway, chart success isn't really relevant of how the song is perceived in, let's say 10 years time. Just watch Always Remember Us This Way by Lady Gaga becoming a classic when it didn't even reach top 40 on Hot 100, or Dancing on My Own by Robyn which didn't reach Hot 100 at all.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Aug 12, 2019 4:40:31 GMT -5
But the thing is, "best pop songs of all time" are usually exceptional anthems and Katy Perry has made some of "best pop songs of all time" and they have been exceptional anthems. This isn't that. Anyway, chart success isn't really relevant of how the song is perceived in, let's say 10 years time. Just watch Always Remember Us This Way by Lady Gaga becoming a classic when it didn't even reach top 40 on Hot 100, or Dancing on My Own by Robyn which didn't reach Hot 100 at all. Small Talk has only been out for 4 days and it goes for adds in 1 week. Its currently #27 on Spotify and #30 on iTunes, which are decent #s.
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Aug 12, 2019 5:24:51 GMT -5
— 71 KATY PERRY Small Talk 161 0 161 1.044
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Maximillian
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Post by Maximillian on Aug 12, 2019 6:49:06 GMT -5
it's really flattering that all of pulse holds katy to such a high standard.. but could you like not? everyone's so worried about whether this will chart on the hot 100, or whether this will hit top 20 on top.. just judge the music. People like Carly Rae Jepsen, Charli XCX, Tove Lo, etc. have few/no chart success and people still like their music. just enjoy the song. or don't listen to it. Again, you’ll be held to a high standard when your music helped shape the pop landscape for half a decade. Nobody is saying not to listen or enjoy the song, the debate has been if this particular song was a wise move / release as a single for KP in 2019. People get so offended hearing opinions on a board about music, where opinions are all we discuss. Half of the people who dislike the single, including myself, actually love KP. We’re just rooting for her career and the nostalgia she brought at one time.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 12, 2019 7:15:52 GMT -5
Oh god I just listened to the song in full and the “Blah Blah Blah” part is even worse than the open sesame line from Witness 🤦🏼♀️ Hell it’s worse than the bridge from ME! I can’t This is literally the first Katy single I’ve disliked since... the one with Timbaland, whatever it was called Smoke some pot or something, you are missing out.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Aug 12, 2019 8:21:54 GMT -5
I don't get why people are acting like this is the worst thing she's every released. It's generic and not terribly engaging, but it's not Bon Appetit.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Aug 12, 2019 8:32:25 GMT -5
I don't get why people are acting like this is the worst thing she's every released. It's generic and not terribly engaging, but it's not Bon Appetit. Some people won’t be happy until she releases another Teenage Dream or Dark Horse. The chances of that happening are slim and I’ve come to peace with that a long time ago. I’m just happy we got two relatable bops in a row.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Aug 12, 2019 9:28:13 GMT -5
it's really flattering that all of pulse holds katy to such a high standard.. but could you like not? everyone's so worried about whether this will chart on the hot 100, or whether this will hit top 20 on top.. just judge the music. People like Carly Rae Jepsen, Charli XCX, Tove Lo, etc. have few/no chart success and people still like their music. just enjoy the song. or don't listen to it. I agree with this except for the fact that we are on the CHR/Pop forum. It is a chart forum and many of us come here pretty exclusively to talk about the charts. So, yeah, there will be a focus on where a song will chart over just "enjoying a song or a not." I just realized this doesn't go for adds for another week. Its a bit premature to say its over or not.
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Aug 12, 2019 9:42:45 GMT -5
I don't get why people are acting like this is the worst thing she's every released. It's generic and not terribly engaging, but it's not Bon Appetit. I like and own this but it sounds demo like and maybe that's the sound they were going for but, I think the simple scaled back sound may be taking some fans for a loop. (or maybe just me...) Again I like it, It just doesn't sound/seem like a 2nd Katy Perry single.
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Kurt
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Post by Kurt on Aug 12, 2019 9:47:16 GMT -5
Pop promo begins next week.
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