kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 13, 2021 14:51:39 GMT -5
- Winston believes the extended in memoriam will resonate strongly online, which is important to him because they already are expecting a 30% to 60% drop in live viewers and Winston doesn't really get the doom and gloom about it - "Are we just pretending that we donβt understand that everybodyβs watching streaming now?β He is most excited about the digital impressions that the show will make afterward. Surely they have and continue to explore the idea of bringing the show to a streaming service? Itβs really only by chance that Iβve been able to watch it the last couple years since none of Canadaβs main networks (CTV, Global) actually carry the show and they have exclusivity with City TV - which I thought was owned by or connected with CTV but I guess not? It is on a streaming service in the US. But no one actually uses CBS All Access. Honestly they should just stream the show live on Grammy.com. They could throw in ads and make good money off of it.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Mar 13, 2021 17:26:18 GMT -5
I still feel like these artists could find better ways to wield their influence other than silently βboycottingβ something theyβre still actively participating in.
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Mar 13, 2021 17:36:17 GMT -5
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Post by Lost In Musical Reverie on Mar 13, 2021 17:39:56 GMT -5
I still feel like these artists could find better ways to wield their influence other than silently βboycottingβ something theyβre still actively participating in. True. While it's still some form of protest, they are still submitting their work every year for the Academy's consideration, which does contradict the idea of a boycott. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some don't have control over that. Frank Ocean and The Weeknd are able to refuse to submit because the former is independent and the latter has his own label. However, I imagine that might not be the case for the likes of Nicki Minaj, Kanye West, and possibly BeyoncΓ© as well. I do think openly speaking out against them is the best course of action, but even someone who attends can bring some awareness, like Drake did back in 2019.
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Sugar Rush
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Post by Sugar Rush on Mar 13, 2021 21:54:46 GMT -5
I wish they presented more than 10 awards for the live show..
That being said - where can I watch it in Canada online?
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 13, 2021 22:23:35 GMT -5
Beyonce doesn't...do much. The last time she had a proper album in consideration, she performed, accepted an award, and sat in the front row all night. I'd guess her absence (at least as a performer) is more about her waiting for B7 than a protest. Yes, she's the most nominated artist but mostly for a feature and a one-off single.
Curious about the snubbed female artist who turned down a performance. Who was big in 2017, got snubbed, and was big again in 2020? Does snub mean no wins or no nominations? I guessss it could be Rihanna but it's also a stretch to say she has anything new to perform anyway.
Glad to see a latin category get a primetime slot, obviously going to Bad Bunny. But I still don't understand how dance, alternative, and music video categories never get anything more than the pre-telecast. On top of no rock (prob all going to Fiona, who said she'd smash any trophies she wins) or R&B.
As for the boycotts, I agree that it doesn't mean much to "not attend" or mope about getting snubbed but continuing to submit your music. I personally thought Drake threatening to boycott but then showing up to get a trophy was lame and contradictory.
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Mar 13, 2021 23:21:57 GMT -5
Interesting, but at the end of the day, critics like billboard or rolling stone or similars always disagree with the academy (which is comprised of thousand professionals working full time for or with the artists). It is not a perfect institution, but I surely believe they know better than those journalists with big platform. The number of times I've read that Celine, Adele or Taylor, etc (all female btw) should not have won. It's tiring.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 13, 2021 23:44:53 GMT -5
Interesting, but at the end of the day, critics like billboard or rolling stone or similars always disagree with the academy (which is comprised of thousand professionals working full time for or with the artists). It is not a perfect institution, but I surely believe they know better than those journalists with big platform. The number of times I've read that Celine, Adele or Taylor, etc (all female btw) should not have won. It's tiring. Or the number of times Mariah is left out of the conversation
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π
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Post by π
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Ύ on Mar 14, 2021 2:09:45 GMT -5
But I still don't understand how dance, alternative, and music video categories never get anything more than the pre-telecast. The Dance categories are still a fucking mess every year.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 14, 2021 4:34:06 GMT -5
It's Grammy Day!!!
PSA: for people in the US who do not have cable, you can make a Paramount+ (formerly known as CBS All Access) account and get a free one-month trial.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Mar 14, 2021 4:54:36 GMT -5
From what I saw on another board, both pop solo and pop album are going to be presented on the main telecast. Iβm usually not big on reading into this, but I have a hard time believing theyβre gonna let Dua Lipa win half the awards that are televised (as would be possible under this scenario). I think this means weβre in for a grab bag of winners in the pop field and general field.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 14, 2021 4:54:47 GMT -5
The number of times I've read that Celine, Adele or Taylor, etc (all female btw) should not have won. It's tiring. I am not really following? Didn't Adele herself say that BeyoncΓ© should have won for Lemonade?
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 14, 2021 5:26:48 GMT -5
From what I saw on another board, both pop solo and pop album are going to be presented on the main telecast. Iβm usually not big on reading into this, but I have a hard time believing theyβre gonna let Dua Lipa win half the awards that are televised (as would be possible under this scenario). I think this means weβre in for a grab bag of winners in the pop field and general field. technically, Grammy producers don't know the winners until they're announced... if you take their word for it. one example that I remember that works in their favor is when BeyoncΓ© won SOTY while she was in the building, getting ready for her performance, so she couldn't come up on the stage to accept the award. or when last year they decided to televise the Comedy Album award (for some odd reason) but the winner wasn't even there. idk idk.
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kalmanta
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Post by kalmanta on Mar 14, 2021 5:41:47 GMT -5
PhilippeDo you really think Celine should have won over The Fugees 1997, Taylor over Kendrick (smh) and Adele over BeyoncΓ©? Even 21 winning when MBDTF wasnβt even nominated is a farce. The Grammys shouldnβt be a popularity contest, thatβs what we have The BBMAs and VMAs for.
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Mar 14, 2021 6:31:53 GMT -5
PhilippeDo you really think Celine should have won over The Fugees 1997, Taylor over Kendrick (smh) and Adele over BeyoncΓ©? Even 21 winning when MBDTF wasnβt even nominated is a farce. The Grammys shouldnβt be a popularity contest, thatβs what we have The BBMAs and VMAs for. My point is what I think or what each of us believes individually doesn't matter. I get we can disagree with some winners or truly be of the opinion that this song or that album was better than the winner. But at the end of the day, the winners are determined by quite an elaborate voting system comprised of thousand of voters with specific knowledges. It has its flaws - that's a sure thing - but I give credit to the institution and rely more on the thousand of professional members opinions than what is trending on Twitter.
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kalmanta
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Post by kalmanta on Mar 14, 2021 8:31:35 GMT -5
Philippe Do you really think Celine should have won over The Fugees 1997, Taylor over Kendrick (smh) and Adele over BeyoncΓ©? Even 21 winning when MBDTF wasnβt even nominated is a farce. The Grammys shouldnβt be a popularity contest, thatβs what we have The BBMAs and VMAs for. My point is what I think or what each of us believes individually doesn't matter. I get we can disagree with some winners or truly be of the opinion that this song or that album was better than the winner. But at the end of the day, the winners are determined by quite an elaborate voting system comprised of thousand of voters with specific knowledges. It has its flaws - that's a sure thing - but I give credit to the institution and rely more on the thousand of professional members opinions than what is trending on Twitter. Itβs hard to trust the βelaborate voting systemβ when clearly there is an agenda behind the voting process. How do you explain an album like Babel, as commercially successful as it was, winning over the incredible fun El Camino and the soul-baring Channel Orange, both having way more critical acclaim from the industry, you know, thousand of professionals. Or something with more racist undertones, Macklemore over Kendrick in 2014, no Country nomination for Bey in 2017. There are countless of other incidents, those are just some more prominent from the last decade. Itβs kinda amusing, with all the justified βoscars so whiteβ and βoscar-baitβ talk, why is the Academy so much better in reading the zeitgeist? A movie about a gay black man struggling with oppression and repression, ultimately an important validation for the community it represents, can win Oscar for best picture.
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Mar 14, 2021 9:06:59 GMT -5
You are mixing two discussions. My point is to address those who thinks their opinion worth more than the result of the voting process of the academy. Now, when it comes to racism or LGTBQ underrepresentation, that's a whole other discussion. It is/was sadly a reflexion of our society.
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Mar 14, 2021 9:30:50 GMT -5
Grammy voters are no different than us. If you really think they have special knowledge.. then you're naive.
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Mar 14, 2021 9:37:10 GMT -5
Grammy voters are no different than us. If you really think they have special knowledge.. then you're naive. I guess I don't believe in conspiracy theories then. As far as I know, they are working members of the industry.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 9:42:38 GMT -5
In theory, Grammy voters are meant to be the βexperts,β people in the industry who hopefully have more familiarization with the challenges of music creating, so theyβd have a unique perspective in what goes into making the music. But when we really think about it (and Iβm sure most of us already know), is that itβs probably more apt to call them the βelite.β People in the industry who have connections and who probably donβt care as much about the music as the fans. So then those connections become more important as many of the voters are too busy or just not interested in exploring the nominations the way we might be.
Awards are kind of a double edged sword. Thereβs pros and cons to awards chosen by βexpertsβ (βeliteβ) and awards chosen by fans. What we see with the Grammys are the upsides and downsides of elitism and favouritism. What we see with fan chosen awards is the upside and downsides of stan culture with the music itself often not being a consideration. Thereβs no perfect system for award shows and with music it might not be possible. How an album like Babel can win the big award is certainly one of the major downsides to the Grammys but we also have to remember that like any award show, it still comes down to a bunch of individual votes rather than a single collective. So Babelβs competition could have canceled each other out. (If they have a ranking system, maybe that would help? I used to imagine the Grammy voters as a bunch of experts around a table discussing each category and why the nominees should or shouldnβt win. How naive is that π).
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 14, 2021 9:46:11 GMT -5
Also one of the major flaw is that the nominations are decided separately to the awards itself. Why they don't just have one voting round (so that the top 5 in voting are the nominees and the most voted wins)?
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 10:13:23 GMT -5
I personally would love a more critic-based music award show. Even "indie"-leaning music critics have embraced more pop in the last decade and I think would be a great counterpoint to the Grammys. Film has Oscars, Golden Globes, Critics Choice, BAFTAS, Independent Spirit, etc. BBMAS, VMAs, and AMAs are so fan-driven, why not add a music branch to critics choice?
I'm not convinced that the academy knows best. This year's slate of AOTY nominees is embarrassing.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 11:26:07 GMT -5
Per Grammy website...
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 14, 2021 11:35:41 GMT -5
Me silently minding my own business everytime someone comes with the "Kendrick should have won over 1989" and "Lemonade should have won over Adele" because in both cases I thought the winner had the best album:Also me fighting anyone who dares to imply BeyoncΓ©'s self-titled deserved to lose to some random Beck album.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 14, 2021 11:42:29 GMT -5
Oh yeah Beck winning AOTY what the hell was that
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Post by Lost In Musical Reverie on Mar 14, 2021 11:51:17 GMT -5
I personally would love a more critic-based music award show. Even "indie"-leaning music critics have embraced more pop in the last decade and I think would be a great counterpoint to the Grammys. Film has Oscars, Golden Globes, Critics Choice, BAFTAS, Independent Spirit, etc. BBMAS, VMAs, and AMAs are so fan-driven, why not add a music branch to critics choice? I'm not convinced that the academy knows best. This year's slate of AOTY nominees is embarrassing. This ^^^ In an ideal world, the most prestigious music award shows would be the Billboard Music Awards for chart success, and a critic-based one to acknowledge the most acclaimed albums of the year. I never understood why people from within the industry vote on the Grammys - it's asking for bias and favoritism to occur. Meanwhile, if we got an aggregate from a vast and diverse group of critics - from publication writers to independent reviewers (picture Mark and Fantano taking part of a judging panel β€), it would much more accurately reflect excellence in music, I believe. Of course, there would need to be a strong quality control so all genres and demographics can be well represented, but it could work really well. As it is, I know I would feel much more honored being featured on a Year End aggregate (which is at worst jumping on some bandwagons, but when positive, usually for a good reason) than winning a Grammy, whose value has been greatly diminished by the corruption accusations and lack of transparency in the voting panel. I mean, take a look at these two lists as reference of what proper recognition of excellence in music could look like. www.albumoftheyear.org/list/summary/2020/www.albumoftheyear.org/songs/best/2020/
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 12:08:33 GMT -5
I think thereβs some value to critics, except that they often seem to actively loathe popularity and mainstream consensus when it comes to music. I often feel like they fail to see that pop music, even stuff they might call βmindlessβ still has a purpose and importance.
When it comes to the Grammy categories that arenβt the general ones, do they still get those ones usually wrong or are they usually better representations of their fields and genres?
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kalmanta
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Post by kalmanta on Mar 14, 2021 12:40:30 GMT -5
Me silently minding my own business everytime someone comes with the "Kendrick should have won over 1989" and "Lemonade should have won over Adele" because in both cases I thought the winner had the best album: What makes 25 a better ALBUM than Lemonade? How could you say she was snubbed in 2015 and then rightfully lost to Adele when Beck had the way stronger record? Bey was at the height of her career with s/t and Lemonade, and again neglected like so many great artist before, just to give them a lifetime achievement award or some kind of recognition after theyβre long gone.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 14, 2021 12:56:35 GMT -5
Me silently minding my own business everytime someone comes with the "Kendrick should have won over 1989" and "Lemonade should have won over Adele" because in both cases I thought the winner had the best album: What makes 25 a better ALBUM than Lemonade? How could you say she was snubbed in 2015 and then rightfully lost to Adele when Beck had the way stronger record? Bey was at the height of her career with s/t and Lemonade, and again neglected like so many great artist before, just to give them a lifetime achievement award or some kind of recognition after theyβre long gone. I mean I don't agree with Choco but it's safe to say 25 was a more valid choice than Beck. I, much like Adele herself, also think Lemonade should have won.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Mar 14, 2021 12:58:19 GMT -5
I have a lot of musician friends (I'm an amateur musician myself) and we talk a lot about the Grammys every year and I have to say their opinions vs. the opinions of regular fans tend to differ A LOT when it comes to what music should be awarded and what shouldn't. In general, my musician friends are not as high on Beyonce as my friends who aren't musicians, for whatever reason. So seeing Adele beat out Beyonce that year didn't come as a shock at all to me. So just anecdotally speaking, I'm not surprised when I see some of the Grammy wins and nominations come in every year because they tend to align with a lot of artists who I see my musician friends adore. For instance, Brandi Carlile. She is ADORED by all my musician friends, Black and white. I'm not surprised at all she's turned into a bit of Grammy darling the last few years.
I also think people in the industry and people who make music tend to frown on artists that employ 12 songwriters on a song, whether that's through clearing samples or whatever the case may be. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what I notice. This is one reason I don't think you've seen a lot of hip hop and R&B win in the general field. You could argue this is a part of the systemic racism that plagues the Grammys. I think it's a big reason why you see Adele win over Beyonce or you see Kacey Musgraves take album of the year over someone like Drake.
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