Rican@
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[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
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Post by Rican@ on Mar 14, 2021 13:13:52 GMT -5
I have a lot of musician friends (I'm an amateur musician myself) and we talk a lot about the Grammys every year and I have to say their opinions vs. the opinions of regular fans tend to differ A LOT when it comes to what music should be awarded and what shouldn't. In general, my musician friends are not as high on Beyonce as my friends who aren't musicians, for whatever reason. So seeing Adele beat out Beyonce that year didn't come as a shock at all to me. So just anecdotally speaking, I'm not surprised when I see some of the Grammy wins and nominations come in every year because they tend to align with a lot of artists who I see my musician friends adore. For instance, Brandi Carlile. She is ADORED by all my musician friends, Black and white. I'm not surprised at all she's turned into a bit of Grammy darling the last few years. I also think people in the industry and people who make music tend to frown on artists that employ 12 songwriters on a song, whether that's through clearing samples or whatever the case may be. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what I notice. This is one reason I don't think you've seen a lot of hip hop and R&B win in the general field. You could argue this is a part of the systemic racism that plagues the Grammys. I think it's a big reason why you see Adele win over Beyonce or you see Kacey Musgraves take album of the year over someone like Drake. I could see your point if Bruno Mars didnβt win AOTY for an album that jacked all styles from other black artists. Yes, you can say influence; however, there is still heavily bias toward black artists doing R&B. Even his SOTY win has 12 songwriters. If Adele decided to have a R&B inspired album and it is heavily sampled, she would still have a high chance winning AOTY due to her skin color. There have been countless R&B artists who should have won AOTY. Hell, Usher did a million in his first week and got overlooked because Ray Charles passed that year. Alicia Keys had the best selling in 2007/2008 next to Lil Wayne and got completely snubbed. She also still hold the highest record for female R&B album. The panel has had its opportunity to award R&B albums that have achieved similar such as Adele, Taylor Swift and etc. It still refused to do it. Why is Taylor Swift going for her third win?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Mar 14, 2021 13:19:20 GMT -5
What makes 25 a better ALBUM than Lemonade? How could you say she was snubbed in 2015 and then rightfully lost to Adele when Beck had the way stronger record? Bey was at the height of her career with s/t and Lemonade, and again neglected like so many great artist before, just to give them a lifetime achievement award or some kind of recognition after theyβre long gone.Β Like I said: (It's just my opinion, btw).
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 13:25:08 GMT -5
I think thereβs some value to critics, except that they often seem to actively loathe popularity and mainstream consensus when it comes to music. I often feel like they fail to see that pop music, even stuff they might call βmindlessβ still has a purpose and importance. When it comes to the Grammy categories that arenβt the general ones, do they still get those ones usually wrong or are they usually better representations of their fields and genres? Do they, though? The albumoftheyear links posted above included Taylor and Dua in the top 5, and the songs list was topped by WAP, Savage, Blinding Lights, and Rain on Me. The lists did not include, however, Coldplay, Black Pumas, or Jacob Collier, who, in my opinion, are the pinnacle of out-of-touch-laughability that the Grammys sometimes represent. They don't get it wrong allllll the time but this year's AOTY group is a great example of the lazy industry indulgence that often plagues them.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2021 13:27:16 GMT -5
This is admittedly my age and standom showing, but as a lamb who remembers Mariah's heydey, the thought of a critic-based award show triggers me. Frankly, anyone who is a fan of mainstream pop should feel the same. With that said, when I think of what my ideal award show would be, I do imagine having a panel that is comprised of at least a few critics. I just wouldn't let them be more than 1/3 of the panel. The rest of the panel would be a mix of artists, writers, producers, and engineers, and former record execs (preferably, ones who worked in A&R) with a stipulated caveat that anyone on this panel cannot have eligible music or be employed as an exec in any year that they are sitting on a panel. The 'peer review' approach that the Grammys take isn't a bad idea, but you or your label have to pay dues to even be considered, the same 'peers' who are voting on you also are your competition half the time, and the four awards considered most valuable are the ones where people from disparate genres are thrown together in an attempt to measure apples against oranges and bananas and pears. The show itself cheapens the genre categories by not presenting most of them on-air. At this point the only thing keeping the Grammys the most 'prestigious' music award show is the fact that the average viewer has no idea what the process is, so they can't criticize the more blatant flaws. Why are we placing so much trust and status in a glorified trade association? Interesting, but at the end of the day, critics like billboard or rolling stone or similars always disagree with the academy (which is comprised of thousand professionals working full time for or with the artists). It is not a perfect institution, but I surely believe they know better than those journalists with big platform. The number of times I've read that Celine, Adele or Taylor, etc (all female btw) should not have won. It's tiring. I get what you're trying to say here but this was a bad point to make. These are all white female winners that you listed, and in each case the criticism was not so much about the quality of their albums in isolation (no one argued that they weren't good pop albums) but about how Grammy voters consistently overlook minority nominees who produce work of comparable or greater quality. You inadvertently mixed two issues yourself when you threw in that parenthetical, which is why the conversation inevitably went in the direction it did. Your post came across as trying to throw a dig at critics' inherent biases, but the Grammy voting body itself is biased af too so that kind of dig just won't stick. Besides, I can think of multiple men who were/are also heavily criticized for their wins - Bruno and Beck come to mind as fairly recent ones. Bruno's win had people reaching all the way back to the '80s to drag Lionel Richie again. Steely Dan also gets kind of scoffed at, albeit not quite as much (probably bc all of Steely Dan's competitors were white men). The O Brother, Where Art Thou sdtk is also a win that isn't really looked upon favorably, but I feel like we don't see that criticism as much because people simply forget that happened.
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cking33
Gold Member
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Posts: 960
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Post by cking33 on Mar 14, 2021 13:32:32 GMT -5
I have a lot of musician friends (I'm an amateur musician myself) and we talk a lot about the Grammys every year and I have to say their opinions vs. the opinions of regular fans tend to differ A LOT when it comes to what music should be awarded and what shouldn't. In general, my musician friends are not as high on Beyonce as my friends who aren't musicians, for whatever reason. So seeing Adele beat out Beyonce that year didn't come as a shock at all to me. So just anecdotally speaking, I'm not surprised when I see some of the Grammy wins and nominations come in every year because they tend to align with a lot of artists who I see my musician friends adore. For instance, Brandi Carlile. She is ADORED by all my musician friends, Black and white. I'm not surprised at all she's turned into a bit of Grammy darling the last few years. I also think people in the industry and people who make music tend to frown on artists that employ 12 songwriters on a song, whether that's through clearing samples or whatever the case may be. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what I notice. This is one reason I don't think you've seen a lot of hip hop and R&B win in the general field. You could argue this is a part of the systemic racism that plagues the Grammys. I think it's a big reason why you see Adele win over Beyonce or you see Kacey Musgraves take album of the year over someone like Drake. I could see your point if Bruno Mars didnβt win AOTY for an album that jacked all styles from other black artists. Yes, you can say influence; however, there is still heavily bias toward black artists doing R&B. Even his SOTY win has 12 songwriters. If Adele decided to have a R&B inspired album and it is heavily sampled, she would still have a high chance winning AOTY due to her skin color. There have been countless R&B artists who should have won AOTY. Hell, Usher did a million in his first week and got overlooked because Ray Charles passed that year. Alicia Keys had the best selling in 2007/2008 next to Lil Wayne and got completely snubbed. She also still hold the highest record for female R&B album. The panel has had its opportunity to award R&B albums that have achieved similar such as Adele, Taylor Swift and etc. It still refused to do it. Why is Taylor Swift going for her third win? Yep, I canβt really explain that Bruno SOTY win other than Bruno is Grammy bait. Thatβs where my argument breaks down but perhaps that was more an outlier than the norm. I have no good explanation for that one.
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 13:40:21 GMT -5
I do think Grammy voters/industry people prioritize traditional musicianship and supposed craft over the end product, sometimes. That, to me, explains the Bruno sweep, Adele over Beyonce, Beck over Beyonce, the mid-00s run of Ray Charles and Herbie Hancock and Plant/Krauss, even Daft Punk finally winning for a pop/disco album instead of their legendary electronic work. It's not that that always is the wrong choice (I was thrilled when Kacey Musgraves won) but I do think they have a narrow definition of "artistry." Their definition often excludes hip hop and hip hop-adjacent music, even though hip hop and hip hop-adjacent music has clearly been the center of the musical universe, especially in the last handful of years. It can cut through, I expect Megan to win BNA tonight, but it usually doesn't (see 0 combined general field wins for Kendrick, Kanye, Jay-Z, Biggie, Tupac, Missy, Nicki, Drake, Eminem)
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Mar 14, 2021 14:03:25 GMT -5
I do think Grammy voters/industry people prioritize traditional musicianship and supposed craft over the end product, sometimes. That, to me, explains the Bruno sweep, Adele over Beyonce, Beck over Beyonce, the mid-00s run of Ray Charles and Herbie Hancock and Plant/Krauss, even Daft Punk finally winning for a pop/disco album instead of their legendary electronic work. It's not that that always is the wrong choice (I was thrilled when Kacey Musgraves won) but I do think they have a narrow definition of "artistry." Their definition often excludes hip hop and hip hop-adjacent music, even though hip hop and hip hop-adjacent music has clearly been the center of the musical universe, especially in the last handful of years. It can cut through, I expect Megan to win BNA tonight, but it usually doesn't (see 0 combined general field wins for Kendrick, Kanye, Jay-Z, Biggie, Tupac, Missy, Nicki, Drake, Eminem) Yeah Iβd agree with this and this is where the Grammys problem is. To say that someone strumming a guitar or playing a piano while they sing makes someone a more authentic musician than someone like Kendrick or BeyoncΓ© is an outdated view to have, IMO. And the Grammys have been known to be older voters
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Troublemaker
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Tasteless Heaux
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:10:53 GMT -5
Best dance recording: "10%" (Kaytranada feat. Kali Uchis) Best dance album: Bubba (Kaytranada)
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 14:15:41 GMT -5
Thrilled for Kaytranada (and Kali Uchis)
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:16:46 GMT -5
Best music video: Brown Skin Girl (BeyoncΓ©)
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:18:42 GMT -5
Best Music Film: Linda Ronstadt: The Sound of My Voice
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 14, 2021 14:18:56 GMT -5
Best Music Film: Linda Ronstadt: The Sound of My Voice β Linda Ronstadt what the...
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 14:25:08 GMT -5
Best Music Film: Linda Ronstadt: The Sound of My Voice β Linda Ronstadt what the... Lol. THAT is the Grammys being the Grammys. Lido was incredible. Will likely end up one of the best performances of the whole day (including the actual primetime show).
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 14:25:31 GMT -5
I donβt like how they donβt have the artists/titles when theyβre saying the nominations.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:26:25 GMT -5
Finally Jonathan McReynolds and Mali Music have a Grammy for gospel performance/song
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:27:42 GMT -5
Another Grammy for Dolly Parton (11 Grammy)
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 14:28:12 GMT -5
The Maroon 5 guy is a 2021 Grammy winner. Adam Levine can never!
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:28:48 GMT -5
Damn Pj Morton keeps winning no matter what category he submits in... 3 Grammys in 3 years
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:29:19 GMT -5
Wow! Didnβt see that coming congrats Kanye
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 14:30:25 GMT -5
The roots gospel albums category looked like a bunch of albums out of the 1950s in the 1 cent bin at the old record store on the edge of town.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:32:46 GMT -5
What are the chances the premiere ceremony ends before 5:00?
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 14:32:55 GMT -5
This whole thing is running SO much smoother than it does in person. Waiting for people to get to the stage and inviting all 10 winners for each project to speak usually keep this dragging on.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 14:36:18 GMT -5
Damn! It took that many people to engineer Beckβs album???
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Post by when the pawn... on Mar 14, 2021 14:38:51 GMT -5
Damn! It took that many people to engineer Beckβs album??? Bringing us full circle since there was such an obnoxious conversation after the 2015 Grammys about how Beck wrote/produced his whole album alone, compared to the many people involved with Beyonce. But he is still winning. At this point, he could compete with Adele...
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 14:49:52 GMT -5
Am I too sensitive or is this cringe?
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Mar 14, 2021 14:59:40 GMT -5
Best Compilation Soundtrack goes to JoJo Rabbit. Taika!
Best Song for Visual Media goes to: Billie Eilish & Finneas!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 14, 2021 15:03:10 GMT -5
I was hoping Brandi would win :(
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 15:07:32 GMT -5
American Roots Performance: John Prine American Roots Song: John Prine
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 15:09:51 GMT -5
Americana Album: Sarah Jarosz
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on Mar 14, 2021 15:15:09 GMT -5
Folk Album: Gillian Welch & David Rawling
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