ANTi
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Post by ANTi on Jan 30, 2020 17:53:30 GMT -5
How do you all see Taylor Swift’s legacy in the music industry being viewed once her star starts to fade a bit more, years/decades down the road? Do you see her being considered a musical legend?
She’s broken so many records and there’s probably not a person in the world that doesn’t know who Taylor Swift is. Her popularity is unreal, whether you love her or hate her.
But musically, do you see people looking back and saying what a great artist she was, and will her songs be considered “classics” that stand the test of time?
There’s no doubt she is a talented songwriter, but I don’t know that she really has any songs that will stand the test of time. I think she will have a pop music icon legacy similar to that of Britney Spears, but not sure she will be as “culturally“ significant as Britney or Madonna, etc. Even with all of her success, I just don’t know that she broke any barriers or paved the way for anyone.
Discuss!
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on Jan 30, 2020 18:14:49 GMT -5
one that exists in Tove Lo's shadow
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rainie
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Post by rainie on Jan 30, 2020 18:30:55 GMT -5
i actually think she'll go down as a fucking legend. maybe not Madonna level, but solidly Britney level.
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Post by collegedropout on Jan 30, 2020 21:17:01 GMT -5
1989 and Red made many best of lists. "Blank Space" as well.
The way she played the media/business game is unparalleled.
Her fight for artists rights and incredible success will get her legend status.
I think it will be similar to Madonna in that people don't really think of her as "great" but a legend she is nonetheless.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Jan 30, 2020 21:19:19 GMT -5
Taylor will be remembered for her many hits from "Love Story" and all the great "1989" era hits.
IMO A country and pop crossover legend.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 30, 2020 21:27:56 GMT -5
I don't know if there's an artist from the past I would compare her to. She's known as a songwriter, obviously, but I don't think she'll have the profile of songwriters like Carole King, for example, or Paul McCartney or whatever, and she's not known as a strong vocalist, nor has she been overly vocal about anything in particular - yet she's still achieved a lot, is focused more around the music than image or pop culture, and has had her fair share of industry drama.
I think she'll be remembered as a musician who appealed to a particular demographic of people who will probably have a certain level of respect that might actually improve going forward. tbh, I don't know if I necessary perceive her as someone who is respected in the same way a lot of her higher-level-successful peers are but I could see her eventually getting to that level.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 21:33:59 GMT -5
I have a feeling she'll be big with lesbians
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Jan 30, 2020 22:20:43 GMT -5
I don't know if there's an artist from the past I would compare her to. She's known as a songwriter, obviously, but I don't think she'll have the profile of songwriters like Carole King, for example, or Paul McCartney or whatever, and she's not known as a strong vocalist, nor has she been overly vocal about anything in particular - yet she's still achieved a lot, is focused more around the music than image or pop culture, and has had her fair share of industry drama. yep, she'll be remembered for being business savvy, navigating drama, speaking out for herself and other artists before any specific song/album/era imo. I'd compare her level of success to Beyoncé & Lady Gaga, but Taylor definitely has less of a personality (which is not a bad thing, but makes her a less memorable legend)
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Jan 31, 2020 0:33:29 GMT -5
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Jan 31, 2020 0:39:48 GMT -5
I think her legacy will be very similar to Madonna's. Not as impactful outside of music, but known for being an artist with lots of hits, with a loyal long-lasting fanbase and solid touring numbers well into her career. I think the streaming era might make it easier for artists to avoid being forgotten too, assuming that that's still how we listen to music decades from now. I'd assume that the negative feelings over some of her past drama will be forgotten just like no-one's pressed at Madonna over the stuff she did in the 80s-90s anymore. And I think Taylor has enough tact to avoid some of Madonna's more recent missteps so I think she has the potential to be pretty well liked in a decade. Devil Marlena Nylund I kind of feel like Carole King (along with Joni Mitchell) is one of those names people know they're supposed to rattle off when it comes to great female songwriters because they've seen other people mention them a lot, but then they only listen to 1-2 of their songs once a year. Taylor has stronger popular appeal and celebrity power that could keep her in people's minds more. And putting aside whether the songs themselves are good, a lot of the teen pop artists Carole King wrote for in the 60s-70s didn't have anywhere close to Taylor's long-term star power so that didn't help.
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rainie
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Post by rainie on Jan 31, 2020 2:20:24 GMT -5
I have a feeling she'll be big with lesbians nah, we have better taste then that (kidding! sort of)
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jan 31, 2020 2:26:55 GMT -5
“All Too Well” will be her most remembered song, quote me in 50 years
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Kologne
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Post by Kologne on Jan 31, 2020 5:48:09 GMT -5
She has been ubiquitous in the US for a long time. She was not big outside the US when she was doing her country stuff. She has been really big worldwide only since her full transition to pop... and what followed (reputation and Lover) were not big cultural events worldwide. So I don't know, her legacy is just very US based. She is such a non-factor in my country lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 5:55:49 GMT -5
I don't think in Europe people view her as big... I can not even say what is her biggest hit in Europe
Probably Love story
So... no... she is not even close to be half of Madonna's level of legacy/whatever
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 14:27:51 GMT -5
In the UK she feels as big as she does in the US I think but I don’t know about the rest of Europe.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Jan 31, 2020 15:25:05 GMT -5
Playing the victim and singing about her exes.
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insen_13
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Post by insen_13 on Jan 31, 2020 15:34:53 GMT -5
A real legend. She'll be the basis of comparison for many more records to be made in the future. She's broken so much of them that she's a title holder.
She's a legend. People just don't want to see it or view it that way.
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insen_13
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Post by insen_13 on Jan 31, 2020 15:36:01 GMT -5
Playing the victim and singing about her exes. This is because the GP doesn't get to hear Afterglow.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Jan 31, 2020 16:05:03 GMT -5
Playing the victim and singing about her exes. This is because the GP doesn't get to hear Afterglow. That's on her for releasing other songs.
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insen_13
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Post by insen_13 on Jan 31, 2020 16:30:50 GMT -5
This is because the GP doesn't get to hear Afterglow. That's on her for releasing other songs. Of course, poor single choices.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Jan 31, 2020 18:13:49 GMT -5
She has been ubiquitous in the US for a long time. She was not big outside the US when she was doing her country stuff. She has been really big worldwide only since her full transition to pop... and what followed (reputation and Lover) were not big cultural events worldwide. So I don't know, her legacy is just very US based. She is such a non-factor in my country lol. Taylor's worldwide popularity is something I've looked at several times before. France is basically her weakest market after Russia and Italy. She gets more Youtube views from second tier cities in Indonesia and the Philippines like Davao, Cebu and Surabaya than she does from Paris, and more views from Quezon City, a satellite city to the Philippines capital of Manila, than she does from the entirety of France, Italy or Russia. This is the % of Youtube views (last 12 months) that come from the US for some of the big artists. 53.37: Drake 46.35: Chris Brown 46.00: Kendrick Lamar 38.17: Travis Scott 36.77: Post Malone 36.33: XXXTentacion 33.73: Khalid 29.95: Beyonce 29.23: The Weeknd 27.98: Eminem 27.10: Nicki Minaj 24.31: Billie Eilish 23.84: Taylor Swift21.98: Twenty One Pilots 21.23: Ariana Grande 19.50: Rihanna 18.60: Sam Smith 15.68: Lady Gaga 15.61: Imagine Dragons 15.42: Queen 14.90: Selena Gomez 14.66: Adele 14.27: Maroon 5 13.58: Justin Bieber 13.23: The Chainsmokers 12.43: Katy Perry 12.27: Shawn Mendes 11.74: Ed Sheeran 10.48: Calvin Harris 10.04: Coldplay 9.73: Sia 9.49: BTS 8.12: David Guetta So Taylor is more US based then a lot of other pop and rock artists, especially the European ones, but still a bit more international than Beyonce, Billie Eilish and the hip hop/R&B artists. Taylor's relative popularity is indeed much lower in France than with other pop artists, this is the % of the same artists' total Youtube views that come from France. 6.15: Lady Gaga 5.65: David Guetta 4.69: Sia 4.54: Calvin Harris 4.21: Beyonce 4.09: Rihanna 3.80: Queen 3.49: The Weeknd 3.47: Imagine Dragons 3.29: XXXTentacion 3.09: Ariana Grande 2.99: Travis Scott 2.82: Eminem 2.68: Katy Perry 2.65: Twenty One Pilots 2.61: Coldplay 2.52: Sam Smith 2.48: Ed Sheeran 2.44: Selena Gomez 2.43: Billie Eilish 2.41: Adele 2.14: Drake 2.14: Chris Brown 2.08: Maroon 5 2.08: Nicki Minaj 2.01: Shawn Mendes 2.00: Justin Bieber 1.93: Bruno Mars 1.79: The Chainsmokers 1.67: Khalid 1.61: BTS 1.54: Taylor Swift1.52: Post Malone So clearly, Taylor is very much not relying on France for success. But keep in mind that there's still a lot of artists (Drake, Beyonce, XXX) that are more reliant on both France and the US for success than Taylor is, which means that Taylor is much more popular in some other part of the world... aka Asia. Here are the stats for India, the most populous country in the world 8.76: Justin Bieber 7.43: The Chainsmokers 6.54: Selena Gomez 4.93: Taylor Swift4.86: Sia 4.49: Ed Sheeran 4.47: Imagine Dragons 4.31: Shawn Mendes 4.18: Coldplay 3.98: Maroon 5 3.43: Post Malone 3.01: Eminem 2.96: David Guetta 2.78: The Weeknd 2.41: Katy Perry 2.34: XXXtentacion 2.24: Khalid 2.21: BTS 1.81: Ariana Grande 1.80: Twenty One Pilots 1.76: Bruno Mars1.70: Drake 1.68: Travis Scott 1.67: Nicki Minaj 1.66: Adele 1.56: Calvin Harris 1.26: Lady Gaga 1.26: Sam Smith 1.26: Chris Brown 1.18: Beyonce 1.17: Rihanna 1.09: Billie Eilish 0.97: Queen Taylor's popularity throughout most of Asia is pretty similar, with a few minor differences. In East Asia she's more popular than Justin and Selena. In China, she's #1 by far among western artists. In South Korea, Ariana is ahead. Other stats like Facebook followers, google trends, chart positions on Spotify and Apple Music, and popularity on local apps all confirm that she's much much more popular in Asia than in Europe. It seems like Taylor is very popular in the US and countries where English is the official language, and countries strongly influenced by US culture, so Canada, Australia, UK, Ireland, NZ, as well as Mexico (US neighbour) and the Philippines (former US colony), plus Asia in general. After those, I'd say the region where her relative popularity is next highest (among Western artists) is the Middle East and Arab World (kinda random but that seems to be the case), Germanic countries, and smaller European countries like Greece, Czech Republic, Hungary, Baltic countries and Portugal. That leaves South America, Italy, Spain and Russia mostly, and out of those I think even in South America and Spain she's a bit more popular than in France, Italy and Russia.
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insen_13
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Post by insen_13 on Jan 31, 2020 20:16:52 GMT -5
That is true. Taylor is big here in the Philippines.
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Jan 31, 2020 21:30:51 GMT -5
She's huge in America She's big in Asia and Australia She's not that big in Europe She really sells her albums She has longevity She doesn't really have monster hits She writes her music She has Shake It Off She has Kanye, just like Mariah had Eminem
Her legacy will be like Mariah's, just without AIWFCIY...watch Christmas Tree Farm becoming a Christmas classic in 10 years.
also, I'm not comparing their vocals, songs, performances or anything else. only chart success.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Feb 1, 2020 2:16:02 GMT -5
I remember listening to an interview with Desmond Child, who worked as a producer and co-writer with a lot of rock stars in the 80s-90s, and how those guys were basically like superheroes. Even though they don't technically have superpowers, I do think that's a good way to describe how we, and especially their fans, view them. We all have a need for heroes to make it feel like it's possible to accomplish amazing things and overcoming various challenges and obstacles.
For guys, they've had a lot of such figures, whether it's athletes, rock stars, actors, politicians (for better or worse, Donald Trump is definitely that to his supporters), or fictional characters like Han Solo and Spiderman. For girls, there's definitely been fewer, especially historically, and especially when it comes to non-fictional female heroes. In the 50s-70s, the female music artists might have been seen as having a good voice, or being attractive, or in some cases, they might even be seen as talented musicians, but I'm not sure if any were seen as heroic bad-asses that the rock stars were. I feel like the women from those days were mostly left to idolize men, whether it was sex symbols like Elvis and Mick Jagger, or more PG heart-throbs like The Beatles, but that's not really the same thing. I think that the way those male rock stars were idolized helped them have a strong legacy, with good concert sales far into their careers, strong recurrent streams, etc.
I think Madonna was the first real big female star that was idolized in the same way as Freddie Mercury, Mick Jagger, Led Zeppelin, Gene Simmons, etc. And while you had other female rock stars like Pat Benatar or Joan Jett coming up a few years before, Madonna basically stood alone... for a while there wasn't really anyone on her level. A lot of the women that followed Madonna might have had a lot of hits, or be known for having an amazing voice, but I don't think they were as successful at building a narrative of being the hero of their own story.
I think the first woman that came close was Britney. I'm not a huge fan or especially familiar with her but I feel like the mythos of Britney being able to have men down at her feet was part of her appeal to both women and maybe especially gays? However, the lack of creative control she had made it more difficult to feel like she could own her success, and the 2007 melt-down hurt her in a way that she never really recovered. 2016 hurt Taylor but I think she still can recover better from that (and has).
Since Britney though, I think we've had a lot of female artists who meet the need for female heroes in a similar way that Madonna has. Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Taylor... And I think that'll help ensure that there will be more women from their generation with a very strong legacy, compared to Madonna's generation.
With Taylor, although she's been more openly vulnerable and less aggressively challenging as Madonna, I think she still works as a compelling hero of her own story. She might have taken a while to gather the confidence to speak out politically, but she definitely has been confidently standing up for herself from early on in a way that's a big part of her appeal I think. Like there's a video of her performing Picture To Burn at some festival in 2006 and the crowd barely knows who she is and her vocals aren't the greatest but she's confidently putting the guy the song is about in his place and the women in the crowd were really there for it. And then when interviewers would suggest that maybe she shouldn't go in so hard against her exes because then other guys wouldn't want to date her, she was unrepentant and released Forever & Always, Dear John, Mean, etc. And then you have the stories of her leaving her first label because they weren't interested in hearing her sing her own songs until she was 18, and insisting that she wanted to work with Nathan Chapman for her first album rather than the producers Scott Borchetta introduced her to, and then standing up the Borchetta against when he didn't want 1989 to be a full pop album. Then she stood up to that DJ that groped her, and Apple Music, and Spotify, and Scooter/Borchetta with the whole masters issue, and far right politics.
Her live performances, whether it's earlier ones like Should've Said No and Forever & Always, or later ones like I Knew You Were Trouble and I Did Something Bad, and music videos like Blank Space and Bad Blood all make her come off as a bit of a bad ass. Not the most bad ass woman ever, but she still comes off as someone with a strong sense of self worth who won't let herself get stepped on. I think she has the right combination of that, plus being willing to be openly vulnerable sometimes and cute or silly in a way that makes her sympathetic that you want to cheer for her. It's not just the songs when she's in a fighting spirit that are appealing either, I think her great ability to express how it feels to have a crush or be heartbroken (lyrically and musically) in such a visceral way makes you feel like you're not alone when you're going through those things and like someone out there understands you. Yes, even someone as awesome as Taylor Swift understands you. And maybe sometimes she expresses it so well that it helps you understand your own feelings and get a sense of closure.
On top of that we've gotten fed with a great run of success, and we know that she can own that success because she's been involved in pretty much every facet of her career. So she's a pretty fun artist to stan for, and I think that's why her fans will continue to stand by her for a long time and she'll have a strong legacy.
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Kologne
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Post by Kologne on Feb 1, 2020 4:25:21 GMT -5
nickd thanks for the research and those figures! Can't believe the comparison between cities in the Philippines and France (funny because I have spent three months in the Philippines very recently! I miss it!) I am not surprised at France and Russia not connecting to what she represents... for cultural reasons I guess? She has had for a long time this etiquette of "America's sweetheart" or even "Southern Belle". Too clean, too virtuous, too "innocent" - and mostly too calculated and contrived. She has been herself and outspoken only lately (in terms of politics, being an ally and a feminist). But that was not the case at all years ago. Thanks for enlightening me on the other places in which she does well, there are some interesting stats!
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MissAmericana
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Post by MissAmericana on Feb 1, 2020 6:32:12 GMT -5
Playing the victim and singing about her exes. This is because the GP doesn't get to hear Afterglow. Or the timeless masterpiece known as Back to December.
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insen_13
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Post by insen_13 on Feb 1, 2020 10:50:40 GMT -5
This is because the GP doesn't get to hear Afterglow. Or the timeless masterpiece known as Back to December. I didn't mention it because the people in my country recognize Back to December as one of her most famous (or successful here) songs ❤️
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Feb 1, 2020 11:54:55 GMT -5
She will go down as Rihanna will. Someone with a lot of hits, but hardly any impact.
You can’t really even say her removing her catalog from Spotify was even impactful anymore, when nobody followed her, and she herself backtracked on it when her songs weren’t as successful and put it back.
Still all in all tho, she has a great catalog and will have a lot of recurrent airplay. She’ll be an AC staple for decades.
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Dammn Baby
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Post by Dammn Baby on Feb 1, 2020 12:39:02 GMT -5
For me, Taylor Swift has always just been there. I like her, I listen to her records, but I've never sought her out as an artist, and I just don't find her interesting as a person (although I think that's because she rarely allows people to see beyond the veneer of perfection that she cultivates).
Her entire career - and everything she does - seems intentionally and blandly engineered for popularity and mass appeal. I respect her considerable talent (primarily as a songwriter), and she has an outstanding business acumen and work ethic, but it always feels to me like she's selling an inoffensive version of herself designed for mass consumption, because she wants to be liked more than she wants to challenge herself as an artist. Kacey Musgraves is a peer in age, and is far less prolific, but already has a body of work with more depth and nuance than Taylor.
For most of Taylor's career, she has been apolitical, non-aggressive, and has lacked any sense of edge. She hasn't bothered to evolve her image over the past seven years. She is the Bree Van de Kamp of pop music.
In my mind, she's not distinctive enough to meet the threshold of memorable. Unlike say, Madonna, no one is going to look back decades from now and say that Taylor Swift changed pop music or created a movement. They'll say she had a lot of hits, sure, but so do a lot of people. It takes more than that to be remembered.
I hope that, one day, she'll give up on mainstream popularity and make a really interesting album that allows her artistry to flourish instead of be packaged for consumption. She's going to need to evolve if she wants to stay relevant as we're already on the other side of the peak of her popularity. She needs to make an album that makes people go, "Wow, I never expected that from Taylor Swift."
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newpower
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Post by newpower on Feb 1, 2020 13:46:20 GMT -5
Eventually, she will be big in Europe (the moon of Jupiter, not the continent). She will move there after the big scandal of the 2055 Grammys, when she interrupted North West acceptance speech.
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