14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Nov 13, 2020 20:37:03 GMT -5
Another reason is that Justin Bieber was on there, and so many people do not like his antics including his run-ins with the law. Justin would be okay if he just grow up. It is rubbing off on some of the younger country artists with their attitudes especially around the pandemic. -Justin Bieber isn't the reason for low ratings. -Younger country artists being dipshits when it comes to COVID (see: Chase Rice, Morgan Wallen, Chris Janson, etc.), that's them rolling with those choices. They're autonomous human beings; they don't operate under the direction of Justin Bieber.
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 20:50:50 GMT -5
It may have already been mentioned but I’ve been seeing a few posts by country/Americana artists who are dissatisfied with these awards. So...apparently this gesture by Jason Isbell isn't sitting well with some folks (including Cam) and an entire new conversation came about from it. Here's a snippet from Twitter: I've only skimmed the rest of Andrea's Twitter feed from the day and I still need to catch up, so I'm not quite ready to give my thoughts on this quite yet. My initial reaction is that while I do agree with her I have mixed thoughts about her using Jason and Amanda Shires of all people to make an example out of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 21:02:25 GMT -5
Can someone give an example of the CMA’s being racist?
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 21:15:21 GMT -5
Can someone give an example of the CMA’s being racist? There's an entire thread regarding country music, the CMAs, and race here:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 21:28:45 GMT -5
Can someone give an example of the CMA’s being racist? There's an entire thread regarding country music, the CMAs, and race here: Thanks I’ll definitely read it. I know about race in country music I was meaning about the CMA awards in particular. What black artist should have been nominated that wasn’t? That was the question I was asking.
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 21:39:04 GMT -5
Thanks I’ll definitely read it. I know about race in country music I was meaning about the CMA awards in particular. What black artist should have been nominated that wasn’t? That was the question I was asking. It isn't about one single artist in particular as the issue is much bigger than that. I'd give the Twitter thread a read through as it helps to expand on the issue regarding how racism is fundamentally rooted in the genre as a whole. I enjoyed Amanda's in-depth analysis of the issue much more than that of Andrea and her dragging Jason and Amanda Shires into the conversation.
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recordyear
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Post by recordyear on Nov 13, 2020 22:25:32 GMT -5
It may have already been mentioned but I’ve been seeing a few posts by country/Americana artists who are dissatisfied with these awards. So...apparently this gesture by Jason Isbell isn't sitting well with some folks (including Cam) and an entire new conversation came about from it. Here's a snippet from Twitter: That Cam tweet is before Jason's tweet though. I think she is actually talking about Maren Morris' speech on CMA Awards name-dropping black women in country music. Then I remember there was a meltdown on Twitter when Yola's Hold On is released and some people say white people backing up on black people empowerment song undermines the message (or something like that). Meanwhile, it is expected some people having meltdown at Mickey Guyton not performing on CMA Awards and Darius Rucker hosting and Charley Pride receiving award as token gestures.
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gardyfan
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Post by gardyfan on Nov 13, 2020 22:34:07 GMT -5
Another reason is that Justin Bieber was on there, and so many people do not like his antics including his run-ins with the law. Justin would be okay if he just grow up. It is rubbing off on some of the younger country artists with their attitudes especially around the pandemic. He's not rubbing off on any of the artists. This is absurd to say.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Nov 13, 2020 22:34:54 GMT -5
Cam's tweet was separate. The Isbell thing is more nuanced; like years of systemic racism and you'll still carry their card, but they don't honor your dead friend and you're cancelled. I don't think Jason and Amanda meant it like that, but it's that sort of unthinking bias that is sort of the point.
Also count the number of Black people on stage at the CMA's, and I don't just mean as performers, look at the backing bands....snow white. Lots of talented Black people who helped create, and make really good country music in Nashville....but you'd never know it
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 22:53:58 GMT -5
So...apparently this gesture by Jason Isbell isn't sitting well with some folks (including Cam) and an entire new conversation came about from it. Here's a snippet from Twitter: That Cam tweet is before Jason's tweet though. Cam's tweet was separate. I do believe the Tweet came before Jason's, however when a fan asked why she felt the need to say this she replied with and specifically referenced back to both of the threads from above:
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Nov 13, 2020 22:57:52 GMT -5
No she referred to both of the writers. They write a lot about racism in the industry, and in fact both of them responded to Cam’s tweet.
Cam has also talked a lot about racism in the country industry in general, and sought to educate individuals about it. Her tweet wasn’t directed at the card gesture, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t also agree with the push back, and see all of it as part of a wider problem - which is why she’s suggesting hiring Black people in the first place.
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 23:02:15 GMT -5
No she referred to both of the writers. They write a lot about racism in the industry, and in fact both of them responded to Cam’s tweet. That’s exactly what the Tweet I posted referenced to. Anyways, my reasoning for posting this wasn’t to get off on a tangent about Cam’s Tweet but was just to point out that she made reference to both (and specifically Amanda’s). I completely agree with their sentiments and thoughts regarding racism in the genre and how far behind it is for recognizing artists of color.
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Post by tim on Nov 13, 2020 23:50:48 GMT -5
Jason's response:
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Post by countryisking on Nov 14, 2020 6:32:18 GMT -5
Oh so Andrea is saying that artists who are still members of the CMAs are not allies to the fight for equal POC inclusion in the country music industry. I would have guessed some of the more frequently outspoken artists that appeared (like Maren Morris) would be 100% an ally. Are Jimmie Allen, Darius, and Charley Pride not allies either?
And I want to clarify that I’m not defending the CMAs or the industry. The fact that I just named the majority of the POC that have been remotely relevant in the industry the past 40 years shows there is obviously a huge problem here. I just find it random and unrelated that finding issue with Isbell retiring his membership is a constructive use of time.
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recordyear
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Post by recordyear on Nov 14, 2020 12:55:55 GMT -5
Some random thoughts after watching the show: Jason Aldean and Morgan Wallen remain most boring live artists I have seen on awards show stage.
I get CMA wants to highlight newer artists so that they can really breakthrough in terms of awards show performance experience instead of predictable old performers, but I wish they don't always perform their big hits. Really wish Ashley McBryde would perform Martha Divine to bring more energy to the show, for example.
Settlin' Down performance is actually creative as she highlighted one percussive and the other more melodic instrument on stage to bring out the idea of conflicts as in the song. I don't think the percussion of that song is that interesting to highlight though.
Like this version of Starting Over more than studio version. It has a stone cold/somber thing that feels like a future classic, and for old couples.
The two performances that did not take place in the main venue are very boring in presentation, Keith Urban's especially boring comparing to his other performances this year. Failed to see the intro that Keith Urban gives and the song itself.
There are definitely some performances that can be replaced. The more obvious one is that random Urban Cowboy tribute. Old Dominion don't even have enough twang for it. Should have done by Midland instead. But, continuing the unstated rule of "only nominees can perform", Maddie & Tae probably deserves to perform Die a Broken Heart which is I think the third biggest hit by country women this year. Also, country women duo that has this success. How rare is it?
The less obvious one is Be A Light. This full of platitude song performance should be replaced by Black Like Me performance. It is the only song that Mickey Guyton did not perform on awards show, and it is way more topical. Also let her inform the world black women in country music instead.
Overall the quality of performances are within expectation, but tbh both ACM Awards and CMT Awards have some really memorable performances. CmA Awards not as many.
P.S. Eric Church definitely got a lot of camera in award shows these days!
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davidcountry
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 14:51:17 GMT -5
That Cam tweet is before Jason's tweet though. Cam's tweet was separate. I do believe the Tweet came before Jason's, however when a fan asked why she felt the need to say this she replied with and specifically referenced back to both of the threads from above: They should have also added Bonnie Pointer to the rememberence. Does anybody remember any black female or black female groups ever won any major awards? Nope. The Pointer Sisters set a standard for future black ladies to strive to win awards. I would think Mickey Guyton would look up to The Pointer Sisters and say "I can win like them." I believe Charley Pride and Darius Rucker won awards. Others minorities that I think did won awards are The Mavericks (Raol Malo is Latina), Freddy Fender and Johnny Rodriquez and then I think Neal McCoy did won one award. McCoy is half Philliphino.
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davidcountry
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 15:01:43 GMT -5
Another reason is that Justin Bieber was on there, and so many people do not like his antics including his run-ins with the law. Justin would be okay if he just grow up. It is rubbing off on some of the younger country artists with their attitudes especially around the pandemic. I have to disagree completely. Justin Bieber still has a very large base of teenage fans who love him to pieces; most or all of them either don't know or don't care about his past bad-boy antics (and a lot of them were just too young at the time to even remember; hell, I've forgotten about 99% of what he did). He's a huge 18-24 draw, but the flip side of that coin is that the 18-24 almost exclusively streams, rather than watch TV. I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. I know at that time, I cared more pop artists and had crushes on Pat Benitar, The Go-Gos, Tiffany, Kylie Minogue, Debbie Gibson, Janet Jackson, Shelia E., and so many more. When I got older, I respect country music better. As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling and was completely different from pop radio. Now, I find that songs from pop and country sound the same. Loretta Lynn called out today's country music saying that there is not storytelling in the songs anymore. Are these songs worthy of an award of today? Yeah, in the pop category. Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Nov 14, 2020 15:24:49 GMT -5
I have to disagree completely. Justin Bieber still has a very large base of teenage fans who love him to pieces; most or all of them either don't know or don't care about his past bad-boy antics (and a lot of them were just too young at the time to even remember; hell, I've forgotten about 99% of what he did). He's a huge 18-24 draw, but the flip side of that coin is that the 18-24 almost exclusively streams, rather than watch TV. I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. They...do, though. You don't even need statistical evidence to prove that statement 100% incorrect. But if you did want statistical evidence, it'd show that...they do. Silly thing to say. As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling Carrie Underwood was 29 years old when she released Blown Away, which included songs about a deadly tornado becoming a little girl's only salvation from her drunk and abusive father; a wife and a mistress conspiring to discretely murder a two-timing man; and comparing shattered love to having "wine after whiskey." Storytelling is far from dead. Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others. "More Hearts Than Mine" says hello. I just don't understand where or how you're basing literally any of this argument. I could come up with thousands of other examples to dispute your post.
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davidcountry
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 15:45:29 GMT -5
I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. They...do, though. You don't even need statistical evidence to prove that statement 100% incorrect. But if you did want statistical evidence, it'd show that...they do. Silly thing to say. As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling Carrie Underwood was 29 years old when she released Blown Away, which included songs about a deadly tornado becoming a little girl's only salvation from her drunk and abusive father; a wife and a mistress conspiring to discretely murder a two-timing man; and comparing shattered love to having "wine after whiskey." Storytelling is far from dead. Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others. "More Hearts Than Mine" says hello. I just don't understand where or how you're basing literally any of this argument. I could come up with thousands of other examples to dispute your post. In the 1980s, the CMA awards were watched more by older people than the younger. Nashille at the time kept their older artists on major label deals, and they still sold albums. They never threw their legendary artists under the bus while at the same time adding new artists. How many legends are on the major labels today compare to the days of 80s and 90s. To keep a large number of audience? You do not through the likes of George Strait, Dolly Parton or Willie Nelson under the bus. You are just losing money. Blown Away came out long before Loretta Lynn's statement. Loretta Lynn's swipe was at the bro-country movement with Florida Georgia Line, Luke Bryan, Brantley Gilbert and the likes. She was taking swipe at the poppy bro-country and other types of songs at the time for not telling a story. This includes Sam Hunt. More Heart Than Mine is a good song, but how much of the story is missing? Songs before 2000s where usually between 4 t0 6 minutes long back then. Now, you have a little over a 2 minute song. How much were left out of More Hearts Than Mine? I would like to hear a 4 to 6 minutes version of the song. It could be more than what we know.
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taylor
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Post by taylor on Nov 14, 2020 16:11:02 GMT -5
I have to disagree completely. Justin Bieber still has a very large base of teenage fans who love him to pieces; most or all of them either don't know or don't care about his past bad-boy antics (and a lot of them were just too young at the time to even remember; hell, I've forgotten about 99% of what he did). He's a huge 18-24 draw, but the flip side of that coin is that the 18-24 almost exclusively streams, rather than watch TV. (1) I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. I know at that time, I cared more pop artists and had crushes on Pat Benitar, The Go-Gos, Tiffany, Kylie Minogue, Debbie Gibson, Janet Jackson, Shelia E., and so many more. When I got older, I respect country music better. (2) As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling and was completely different from pop radio. Now, I find that songs from pop and country sound the same. Loretta Lynn called out today's country music saying that there is not storytelling in the songs anymore. Are these songs worthy of an award of today? Yeah, in the pop category. (3) Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others.1) I am 20 (and therefore a member of the 18-24 crowd) and I love country music, so you can throw this statement right out the window because it's wholly and entirely false. 2) "More Hearts Than Mine" is a song about a break-up, which is a harder topic to deal with. Ingrid Andress just turned 29. "Next Girl" is a song that tackles cheating. Carly Pearce is 30. Every other Luke Combs song talks about drinking/beers/etc. He is also 30. Carrie Underwood has an entire plethora of songs discussing murder/abuse/death. "Blown Away," "Two Black Cadillacs," "Church Bells." She was 29 and 32 when those songs came out. "Low" is loosely correlated to her three consecutive miscarriages, "The Bullet" is about a mother dealing with the loss of her son to gun violence, and the effects that the bullet of that gun has on her world and family long after that child's death, and "Spinning Bottles" tackles a man's drinking problem that rips a couple's relationship apart. She was 35 when those three songs came out. I could go on for hours. 29 is not old, and neither is 35. 3) "More Hearts Than Mine," "I Hope," "Even Though I'm Leaving," and countless other songs say hello. I could come up with a book's worth of examples of songs that tell stories that are mainstream country songs. And this argument that you have about a 4-6 minute version of "More Hearts Than Mine" is...not a good one. Ingrid wrote the song, she wrote the story. What you heard is what she told us, and it's the entire story. She'd have written more song if there was more story to tell in that song. And there wasn't.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Nov 14, 2020 16:22:18 GMT -5
In the 1980s, the CMA awards were watched more by older people than the younger. The year is 2020, David. I know you're old, but we're talkin' about now not back when you were in your 40s. The data for successful singles from the year by Maren Morris, Dan + Shay, Gabby Barrett, Luke Combs, Morgan Wallen, Maddie & Tae, Sam Hunt, etc. suggests that the younger demographic is not only interested in country music but that it is a huge force for the genre rn.
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davidcountry
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 16:43:49 GMT -5
(1) I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. I know at that time, I cared more pop artists and had crushes on Pat Benitar, The Go-Gos, Tiffany, Kylie Minogue, Debbie Gibson, Janet Jackson, Shelia E., and so many more. When I got older, I respect country music better. (2) As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling and was completely different from pop radio. Now, I find that songs from pop and country sound the same. Loretta Lynn called out today's country music saying that there is not storytelling in the songs anymore. Are these songs worthy of an award of today? Yeah, in the pop category. (3) Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others. 1) I am 20 (and therefore a member of the 18-24 crowd) and I love country music, so you can throw this statement right out the window because it's wholly and entirely false. 2) "More Hearts Than Mine" is a song about a break-up, which is a harder topic to deal with. Ingrid Andress just turned 29. "Next Girl" is a song that tackles cheating. Carly Pearce is 30. Every other Luke Combs song talks about drinking/beers/etc. He is also 30. Carrie Underwood has an entire plethora of songs discussing murder/abuse/death. "Blown Away," "Two Black Cadillacs," "Church Bells." She was 29 and 32 when those songs came out. "Low" is loosely correlated to her three consecutive miscarriages, "The Bullet" is about a mother dealing with the loss of her son to gun violence, and the effects that the bullet of that gun has on her world and family long after that child's death, and "Spinning Bottles" tackles a man's drinking problem that rips a couple's relationship apart. She was 35 when those three songs came out. I could go on for hours. 29 is not old, and neither is 35. 3) "More Hearts Than Mine," "I Hope," "Even Though I'm Leaving," and countless other songs say hello. I could come up with a book's worth of examples of songs that tell stories that are mainstream country songs. And this argument that you have about a 4-6 minute version of "More Hearts Than Mine" is...not a good one. Ingrid wrote the song, she wrote the story. What you heard is what she told us, and it's the entire story. She'd have written more song if there was more story to tell in that song. And there wasn't. I am 32 years older than you. Our time period is different. If you read what I am saying further? You would know where me, Jason Isbell, Loretta Lynn and others are coming from. There is no respect in country music these days even from the younger artists and fans. We are being called old goats and all that. The issue is the younger people are pushing out the older artists and fans of the genre that we love. The award shows and major label caters to the young demographs. Does that helps ratings or sell albums? No. The older fans are buying albums up from Cody Jinks, Jason Isbell, Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, Tanya Tucker, George Strait, Colter Wall, Orville Peck and in cases like Luke Combs, Miranda Lambert, Cody Johnson and the likes of traditional artists. With the lack of legendary artists being nominated is actually killing these award shows. Sammy Kershaw should have been nominated this year for song and single of the year for his song "My Friend Fred" about a gut named Fred who abuses booze. A song like that in the past would have won a CMA Award just like Collin Raye's song "Little Rock." I would put that song in replace of "I Hope" or "10,000 Hours" for Single of the year or replace "The Bones" for Song of the Year. Not to hate on these people or songs, but they are not good songs to be the best songs of the year. At least the Grammys see it the other way when Tanya Tucker won Grammys in the country categories in 2020. I am with Loretta Lynn and others that Nashville have went away from their roots on what songs and artists should be, not being pop prince and princesses.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Nov 14, 2020 16:44:25 GMT -5
Yeah to suggest that country music isn't popular with the younger generation is asinine, looking at the 2020 year end predictions for the all genre Hot 100 there are a projected 18 songs expected to make that chart which encompasses all the genres, that is almost 20% of the whole chart represented by country music. I'm sorry davidcountry but you are pretty blatantly wrong here, as country music in 2020 imo has been very successful.
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davidcountry
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 16:49:55 GMT -5
Yeah to suggest that country music isn't popular with the younger generation is asinine, looking at the 2020 year end predictions for the all genre Hot 100 there are a projected 18 songs expected to make that chart which encompasses all the genres, that is almost 20% of the whole chart represented by country music. I'm sorry davidcountry but you are pretty blatantly wrong here, as country music in 2020 imo has been very successful. Because most of the songs are connected to pop success and not by country audience. Kane Brown Dan + Shay Maren Morris Gabby Barrett Thomas Rhett Some others are inflated because they had songs that spent time on the pop and on the AC charts. Their numbers are inflated. If you subtract those artists? You have basically Luke Combs who attrcts artists of all ages.
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taylor
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Post by taylor on Nov 14, 2020 17:04:01 GMT -5
1) I am 20 (and therefore a member of the 18-24 crowd) and I love country music, so you can throw this statement right out the window because it's wholly and entirely false. 2) "More Hearts Than Mine" is a song about a break-up, which is a harder topic to deal with. Ingrid Andress just turned 29. "Next Girl" is a song that tackles cheating. Carly Pearce is 30. Every other Luke Combs song talks about drinking/beers/etc. He is also 30. Carrie Underwood has an entire plethora of songs discussing murder/abuse/death. "Blown Away," "Two Black Cadillacs," "Church Bells." She was 29 and 32 when those songs came out. "Low" is loosely correlated to her three consecutive miscarriages, "The Bullet" is about a mother dealing with the loss of her son to gun violence, and the effects that the bullet of that gun has on her world and family long after that child's death, and "Spinning Bottles" tackles a man's drinking problem that rips a couple's relationship apart. She was 35 when those three songs came out. I could go on for hours. 29 is not old, and neither is 35. 3) "More Hearts Than Mine," "I Hope," "Even Though I'm Leaving," and countless other songs say hello. I could come up with a book's worth of examples of songs that tell stories that are mainstream country songs. And this argument that you have about a 4-6 minute version of "More Hearts Than Mine" is...not a good one. Ingrid wrote the song, she wrote the story. What you heard is what she told us, and it's the entire story. She'd have written more song if there was more story to tell in that song. And there wasn't. (1) I am 32 years older than you. Our time period is different. If you read what I am saying further? You would know where me, Jason Isbell, Loretta Lynn and others are coming from. There is no respect in country music these days even from the younger artists and fans. We are being called old goats and all that. (2) The issue is the younger people are pushing out the older artists and fans of the genre that we love. (3) The award shows and major label caters to the young demographs. (4) Does that helps ratings or sell albums? No. The older fans are buying albums up from Cody Jinks, Jason Isbell, Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, Tanya Tucker, George Strait, Colter Wall, Orville Peck and in cases like Luke Combs, Miranda Lambert, Cody Johnson and the likes of traditional artists. (5) With the lack of legendary artists being nominated is actually killing these award shows. Sammy Kershaw should have been nominated this year for song and single of the year for his song "My Friend Fred" about a gut named Fred who abuses booze. A song like that in the past would have won a CMA Award just like Collin Raye's song "Little Rock." I would put that song in replace of "I Hope" or "10,000 Hours" for Single of the year or replace "The Bones" for Song of the Year. (5) Not to hate on these people or songs, but they are not good songs to be the best songs of the year. At least the Grammys see it the other way when Tanya Tucker won Grammys in the country categories in 2020. (6) I am with Loretta Lynn and others that Nashville have went away from their roots on what songs and artists should be, not being pop prince and princesses.1) Yes our time periods are different. It's not the 1980s. It's 2020. Like you just said, the times have changed. And being 32 years younger than you, I'm telling you that I know what I'm talking about when I tell you what we 18-24 year olds wanna hear. I literally come from the streaming generation. 2) That is a non-issue. With every ounce of respect to these older artists...they were just as young when they were at their commercial peak as the artists from my generation of country music are now. They had their time in the sun; it was inevitable that the Lorettas and Georges of country music were gonna stop seeing nominations and wins, just as it is inevitable that the Carries and Mirandas, the Lukes and Morgans, the Gabbys and Carlys are going to eventually stop seeing nominations and wins...because their commercial peaks will have passed. 3) Yes. Yes, it does. Literally just about everything does. That's how they sell what they have to offer, because we 18-24 year olds are the key demographic. Meaning we're the major force. The deciding factor. 4) No, it doesn't often help ratings. But it would if streaming were able to happen live at the same time as it is aired on TV. Because, again, we 18-24 year olds almost exclusively stream things. For nearly all of us, our TV is our phone. The CMAs not being able to stream on our phones kills the ratings. This goes for every single awards show ever. And PS. Yes it does help sell albums and singles. Trust me. 5) Once again, with every ounce of respect to these artists, they had their time in the nomination sun. 6) How did we go from whether or not storytelling is dead (which it isn't) to a discussion on songs and artists in Nashville? I'm perplexed.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Nov 14, 2020 17:18:35 GMT -5
Yeah to suggest that country music isn't popular with the younger generation is asinine, looking at the 2020 year end predictions for the all genre Hot 100 there are a projected 18 songs expected to make that chart which encompasses all the genres, that is almost 20% of the whole chart represented by country music. I'm sorry davidcountry but you are pretty blatantly wrong here, as country music in 2020 imo has been very successful. Because most of the songs are connected to pop success and not by country audience. Kane Brown Dan + Shay Maren Morris Gabby Barrett Thomas Rhett Some others are inflated because they had songs that spent time on the pop and on the AC charts. Their numbers are inflated. If you subtract those artists? You have basically Luke Combs who attrcts artists of all ages. Really because the only songs that received substantial crossover airplay are "10,000 Hours", "The Bones" and "I Hope" which all 3 probably would have made the year end Hot 100 regardless anyway. Also you mean to tell me songs like "Die From A Broken Heart", "Bluebird", "Hard To Forget", "Homesick", "I Hope You're Happy Now", and "One Margarita" are only big because of pop success when someone correct me if I'm wrong but I am pretty sure none of those songs went for any type of crossover airplay and were successful based on how well they sold, streamed and connected at country radio. That's not just matter of opinion that is just straight up facts. Also you can't subtract those artists because those artists are big and are still within the country genre. That is not how any of that works.
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jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,536
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 14, 2020 17:25:32 GMT -5
Love this response. Instead of getting defensive, he owned it. Isbell has carried himself as an ally, yet he remained ignorant of many things and only resigned from the CMAs when a white man (Prine) wasn't mentioned. Oh so Andrea is saying that artists who are still members of the CMAs are not allies to the fight for equal POC inclusion in the country music industry. I would have guessed some of the more frequently outspoken artists that appeared (like Maren Morris) would be 100% an ally. Are Jimmie Allen, Darius, and Charley Pride not allies either? And I want to clarify that I’m not defending the CMAs or the industry. The fact that I just named the majority of the POC that have been remotely relevant in the industry the past 40 years shows there is obviously a huge problem here. I just find it random and unrelated that finding issue with Isbell retiring his membership is a constructive use of time. What has Morris actually done to be an ally? I don't mean that as a knock on her as she's been more outspoken than many, but mentioning some names in a speech isn't actually much of anything. What is she doing to actually dismantle the existing systems in country music? Is she hiring BIPOC people to open for her, to be in her band, etc? I ask that out of ignorance as I don't actually know. I'm just saying being an ally is more than throwing some names into a speech.
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jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,536
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 14, 2020 17:29:01 GMT -5
(1) I don't think 18-24 cares about country music. I know at that time, I cared more pop artists and had crushes on Pat Benitar, The Go-Gos, Tiffany, Kylie Minogue, Debbie Gibson, Janet Jackson, Shelia E., and so many more. When I got older, I respect country music better. (2) As for country music? It was mainly about the older audience since the songs tackle deaths, cheating, murder, drinking, divorce and many other hard topics that had a storytelling and was completely different from pop radio. Now, I find that songs from pop and country sound the same. Loretta Lynn called out today's country music saying that there is not storytelling in the songs anymore. Are these songs worthy of an award of today? Yeah, in the pop category. (3) Bluebird might be the only exception to the rule that actually tells a story. Most of the storytelling songs are being song by the likes of Jason Isbell and others. 1) I am 20 (and therefore a member of the 18-24 crowd) and I love country music, so you can throw this statement right out the window because it's wholly and entirely false. I am not agreeing with what davidcountry said, but I will also say 1 person being an exception doesn't inherently disprove a general statement.
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davidcountry
Gold Member
Banned
Joined: April 2020
Posts: 519
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Post by davidcountry on Nov 14, 2020 17:33:06 GMT -5
(1) I am 32 years older than you. Our time period is different. If you read what I am saying further? You would know where me, Jason Isbell, Loretta Lynn and others are coming from. There is no respect in country music these days even from the younger artists and fans. We are being called old goats and all that. (2) The issue is the younger people are pushing out the older artists and fans of the genre that we love. (3) The award shows and major label caters to the young demographs. (4) Does that helps ratings or sell albums? No. The older fans are buying albums up from Cody Jinks, Jason Isbell, Dolly Parton, Johnny Cash, Tanya Tucker, George Strait, Colter Wall, Orville Peck and in cases like Luke Combs, Miranda Lambert, Cody Johnson and the likes of traditional artists. (5) With the lack of legendary artists being nominated is actually killing these award shows. Sammy Kershaw should have been nominated this year for song and single of the year for his song "My Friend Fred" about a gut named Fred who abuses booze. A song like that in the past would have won a CMA Award just like Collin Raye's song "Little Rock." I would put that song in replace of "I Hope" or "10,000 Hours" for Single of the year or replace "The Bones" for Song of the Year. (5) Not to hate on these people or songs, but they are not good songs to be the best songs of the year. At least the Grammys see it the other way when Tanya Tucker won Grammys in the country categories in 2020. (6) I am with Loretta Lynn and others that Nashville have went away from their roots on what songs and artists should be, not being pop prince and princesses. 1) Yes our time periods are different. It's not the 1980s. It's 2020. Like you just said, the times have changed. And being 32 years younger than you, I'm telling you that I know what I'm talking about when I tell you what we 18-24 year olds wanna hear. I literally come from the streaming generation. 2) That is a non-issue. With every ounce of respect to these older artists...they were just as young when they were at their commercial peak as the artists from my generation of country music are now. They had their time in the sun; it was inevitable that the Lorettas and Georges of country music were gonna stop seeing nominations and wins, just as it is inevitable that the Carries and Mirandas, the Lukes and Morgans, the Gabbys and Carlys are going to eventually stop seeing nominations and wins...because their commercial peaks will have passed. 3) Yes. Yes, it does. Literally just about everything does. That's how they sell what they have to offer, because we 18-24 year olds are the key demographic. Meaning we're the major force. The deciding factor. 4) No, it doesn't often help ratings. But it would if streaming were able to happen live at the same time as it is aired on TV. Because, again, we 18-24 year olds almost exclusively stream things. For nearly all of us, our TV is our phone. The CMAs not being able to stream on our phones kills the ratings. This goes for every single awards show ever. And PS. Yes it does help sell albums and singles. Trust me. 5) Once again, with every ounce of respect to these artists, they had their time in the nomination sun. 6) How did we go from whether or not storytelling is dead (which it isn't) to a discussion on songs and artists in Nashville? I'm perplexed. Because of the traditions that we have with country artists with the songs, the story telling, the artists and Nashville. Jason Isbell pointed out the disrespect of the three legends that were never given tribute. I can point out other disrespect like Chris Darrow of Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Bob Shane the last member of The Kingston Trio, Willie Nelson's drummer, Bonnie Pointer (her and her sisters were the only black female artists who won a major country music award), Jan Howard, Bonnie Lou, Justin Toenrs Earle and others. Jan Howard welcomed new country artists to the Grand Ole Opry. Dierks Bentley this year respected the Legend Travis Tritt giving Travis another hit. Thomas Rhett and Caylee Hammack got Reba. Jackson Michelson got Collin Raye. Lauren Aliana got Trisha Yearwood. Jody Booth got Tracy Byrd out of retirement. Danny Griego just released his duet with Waylon Jennings that they recorded before Waylon died. Stoney LaRue got Tanya Tucker David Joel got Mickey Gilley. Jimmie Allen got Charley Pride. Joe and Martina got Jon Berry. These artist do respect their peers. Could any of these legends get a hit on the country charts alone? No. Nashville will not push them. I tend to like songs no matter how young or old the singers are. The songs have to be great. If Mary Chapin Carpenter sings "More Hearts Than Mine" on country radio today? Nope. There is an issue in this industry that needs to be fixed, but the over all problem is the agism, lack of females on country radio, the hate of gay artists and the lack of minorities in country music, plus the lack of disabled singers in the business. There is a country singer who is in a wheelchair who have MS. I think he should have his dreams come true and get 1 #1 before he leaves us. Country music industry really needs to fixed their image.
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raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,730
Pronouns: He/Him/His
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Post by raylatch98 on Nov 14, 2020 17:41:47 GMT -5
1) I am 20 (and therefore a member of the 18-24 crowd) and I love country music, so you can throw this statement right out the window because it's wholly and entirely false. I am not agreeing with what davidcountry said, but I will also say 1 person being an exception doesn't inherently disprove a general statement. But the amount of success country music has had in 2020 and the fact that more than likely the 18-24 crowd tends to be the biggest buyers/streamers of music does make taylor statement hold much more water
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