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Post by rosalina4812 on Sept 14, 2020 15:40:04 GMT -5
Horrible change. Lyric videos are the most popular upload of a bunch of songs, especially ones by indie artists who's channels are 10x smaller than the lyric channel that uploaded it. And sometimes the algorithm just prefers the lyric video and puts it first when you search for a song. This is really going to hurt organic hits by smaller artists, and for what? What makes unofficial uploads of full songs not a valid way of listening? Are people not watching with the intent of listening to the song? Actual bulls**t. Yeah this a big boon to Kpop songs who make sure you watch the music video but a much bigger loss to upcoming artists. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Sept 14, 2020 15:51:20 GMT -5
Obviously this isn't meant to be taken defensively or cause arguments since what's past is past, but here are the #1's that would've never reached the top with all these rules Billboard implemented this year:
- Harlem Shake (only YouTube views from artist's channel counting)
- Panda (only YouTube views from artist's channel counting)
- Stuck with U (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
- The Scotts (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
- Cardigan (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
- Highest in the Room (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
- Heartless (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
- Watermelon Sugar (automatic redeemed bundled sales)
Not sure if Trollz/Savage/Rain On Me directly needed bundled sales to go #1, or if they just helped further lead them that week.
Also:
- Old Town Road would've never surpassed One Sweet Day in weeks #1. It would've taken longer to go #1, and it would've left #1 weeks earlier than it did.
- Wrecking Ball would've never broken that record for returning to #1 nine weeks after originally being dethroned, due solely to a viral video
- Shake It Off would've lost its final week #1, due solely to a viral video
- In My Feelings would've likely had a shorter run
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Post by nightvision on Sept 14, 2020 16:03:58 GMT -5
Horrible change. Lyric videos are the most popular upload of a bunch of songs, especially ones by indie artists who's channels are 10x smaller than the lyric channel that uploaded it. And sometimes the algorithm just prefers the lyric video and puts it first when you search for a song. This is really going to hurt organic hits by smaller artists, and for what? What makes unofficial uploads of full songs not a valid way of listening? Are people not watching with the intent of listening to the song? Actual bulls**t. Edit: I misread the post. What I didnโt understand is if streams coming from live peformances uploaded by official channels like MTV or BET will count or not |
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Sept 14, 2020 16:06:57 GMT -5
Boring top 10 and lol at people complaining of people buying multiple copies when that's been happening since the 90's if not sooner.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Sept 14, 2020 16:08:25 GMT -5
Horrible change. Lyric videos are the most popular upload of a bunch of songs, especially ones by indie artists who's channels are 10x smaller than the lyric channel that uploaded it. And sometimes the algorithm just prefers the lyric video and puts it first when you search for a song. This is really going to hurt organic hits by smaller artists, and for what? What makes unofficial uploads of full songs not a valid way of listening? Are people not watching with the intent of listening to the song? Actual bulls**t. Thatโs not what I got by these new rules. Lyric videos uploaded to the artistโs official channel will still count. What they are removing is videos posted by fans/random people. What I didnโt understood is if streams coming from live peformances uploaded by official channels like MTV or BET will count He is saying lyric videos posted by users will not count. And they tend to get lots of views. You search 'the box lyrics' and these come up first.  Over 100 million+ views. It seems rather arbitrary to not count them when clearly the user specifically clicked on them to consume that song, it's the full song, and it is being tracked properly by YouTube. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Sept 14, 2020 16:10:14 GMT -5
Boring top 10 and lol at people complaining of people buying multiple copies when that's been happening since the 90's if not sooner. Don't get why this argument keeps being used, this is legitimately the worst argument ever lol. "Manipulation has always happened so its not valid to complain about it now"???.... Whether an issue has 'happened for awhile' doesn't dictate to whether it should or should not be called out. (Imagine saying something like police brutality/racism/etc has 'always existed' so why bother call it out lmao). If anything, the issue not being properly amended for such a long period should make people want to call it out more. Also now that present technology gives the opportunity to actually fix the issue much more than it could in the past it would make more sense if anything to call it now. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 14, 2020 16:10:18 GMT -5
I donโt think BB should be not counting those streams. It puts the power back in the hands of the labels and away from the listener. Though I suppose that might make some happy as it might make the chart move faster? Idk.
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korbel16
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Post by korbel16 on Sept 14, 2020 16:28:02 GMT -5
Sooo what songs currently on the chart will take the biggest hit from this new rule?
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gs
Charting
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Posts: 453
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Post by gs on Sept 14, 2020 16:30:34 GMT -5
WAP would likely have 30M+ streams from YouTube (regular video) this week in 2019, but only has ~9.5M now. A loss of 109+ points.
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Sept 14, 2020 16:31:33 GMT -5
I donโt think BB should be not counting those streams. It puts the power back in the hands of the labels and away from the listener. Though I suppose that might make some happy as it might make the chart move faster? Idk. For a song like Blinding Lights, which is stronger on radio and sales than ugc/streams, I think it helps its longevity even more. I can see BL breaking 40 weeks in the Top 10, and easily reaching 60 charting weeks. |
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hughster1
Charting
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Posts: 239
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Post by hughster1 on Sept 14, 2020 16:38:49 GMT -5
If there was a way to do it, BB should distinguish between YouTube videos of any type that are meant to listen to the song itself - and lyric videos uploaded by users would definitely count - and YouTube videos that only use the song incidentally but are not really about listening to it - like the "Harlem Shake" videos." Those to me are the equivalent of a song playing during a TV show, which also doesn't count towards the charts even though it generates money for the label. But it's probably not possible to make that distinction.
If there's one thing all this points out it's how arbitrary the calculations towards making the charts are. And the more factors that go into it, the more arbitrary it is, since you have to decide how to weigh each. And different factors are used more by different users (should a casual user listening to radio and an intense fan buying multiple copies of a song count the same? And if not, what's the "right" way to weigh each?). There's no "right" answer to this.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Sept 14, 2020 16:43:41 GMT -5
Boring top 10 and lol at people complaining of people buying multiple copies when that's been happening since the 90's if not sooner. Don't get why this argument keeps being used, this is legitimately the worst argument ever lol.ย "Manipulation has always happened so its not valid to complain about it now"???....ย Whether an issue has 'happened for awhile' doesn't dictate to whether it should or should not be called out. (Imagine saying something like police brutality/racism/etc has 'always existed' so why bother call it out lmao). If anything, the issue not being properly amended for such a long period should make people want to call it out more.ย Also now that present technology gives the opportunity to actually fix the issue much more than it could in the past it would make more sense if anything to call it now. Oh dear, now comparing to real life issues! Most people only complain when it disrupts their fave. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2020 16:44:36 GMT -5
Weights and rules on how things chart have changed many times since the beginning
It all lines up with trying to change with a changing market.
Sometimes they make changes appropriately at appropriate times, sometimes it takes them awhile
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m450n
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Posts: 878
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Post by m450n on Sept 14, 2020 16:48:51 GMT -5
Sooo what songs currently on the chart will take the biggest hit from this new rule? I think Heather, you broke me first, mad at disney will take hits (I guess mad at disney technically isn't charting yet though). Other songs that could also take hits but will still be fine because of Spotify, AM, or Radio are WAP, Before You Go, and Savage Love. Heather will probably take the biggest hit though because radio hasn't picked it up that much. |
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Sept 14, 2020 16:50:20 GMT -5
Sooo what songs currently on the chart will take the biggest hit from this new rule? My guess is that stream heavy songs, like WAP and LNCL, will be hurt the most, while songs that are strong and steady on radio and sales, like Blinding Lights, will be helped out by the new changes. |
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Sept 14, 2020 16:54:52 GMT -5
Sooo what songs currently on the chart will take the biggest hit from this new rule? My guess is that stream heavy songs, like WAP and LNCL, will be hurt the most, while songs that are strong and steady on radio and sales, like Blinding Lights, will be helped out by the new changes. and will result in minimal changes in rank, especially in the top half of the Hot 100. |
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fridayteenage
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Post by fridayteenage on Sept 14, 2020 17:28:29 GMT -5
Sooo what songs currently on the chart will take the biggest hit from this new rule? I think Heather, you broke me first, mad at disney will take hits (I guess mad at disney technically isn't charting yet though). Other songs that could also take hits but will still be fine because of Spotify, AM, or Radio are WAP, Before You Go, and Savage Love. Heather will probably take the biggest hit though because radio hasn't picked it up that much. So they put in YouTube too late to get Gangnam its deserved #1 but in time for that Harlem shake thing, and now they may dent Asian talent conan gray's chart run? Hmm. |
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iHype.
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Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Sept 14, 2020 17:49:26 GMT -5
If there was a way to do it, BB should distinguish between YouTube videos of any type that are meant to listen to the song itself - and lyric videos uploaded by users would definitely count - and YouTube videos that only use the song incidentally but are not really about listening to it - like the "Harlem Shake" videos." Those to me are the equivalent of a song playing during a TV show, which also doesn't count towards the charts even though it generates money for the label. But it's probably not possible to make that distinction. That was actually how it was separated before this week. In January they introduced the rule where: YouTube streams specifically from the official videos would be counted highest, YouTube streams from non-official videos that still mostly contained the song would be counted (albeit a little less), and then videos like TikTok compilations which feature songs for just a few seconds would not count altogether. This new rule of also not counting the YouTube streams from non-official videos seems to be going a bit radical. But hey. The undoubtedly positive thing from this is I guess the streaming figures provided by Billboard/Nielsen now will fall in line exactly with the streaming numbers that count towards estimating RIAA certifications. RIAA also only counts video streams from official label uploads. |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 14, 2020 18:10:08 GMT -5
Based on last weekยดs YT chart for the Hot 100 top 5: Song Top Songs Music Videos % difference WAP 23.2 M 11.67 M -49.7% Dynamite 5.94 M 5.94 M 0% LNCL 11.6 M 10.8 M -8.6% Rockstar 8.58 M 3.38 M -60.6% BL 3.73 M Not in Top 100 ?
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gs
Charting
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 453
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Post by gs on Sept 14, 2020 19:32:28 GMT -5
If there was a way to do it, BB should distinguish between YouTube videos of any type that are meant to listen to the song itself - and lyric videos uploaded by users would definitely count - and YouTube videos that only use the song incidentally but are not really about listening to it - like the "Harlem Shake" videos." Those to me are the equivalent of a song playing during a TV show, which also doesn't count towards the charts even though it generates money for the label. But it's probably not possible to make that distinction. That was actually how it was separated before this week. In January they introduced the rule where: YouTube streams specifically from the official videos would be counted highest, YouTube streams from non-official videos that still mostly contained the song would be counted (albeit a little less), and then videos like TikTok compilations which feature songs for just a few seconds would not count altogether. This new rule of also not counting the YouTube streams from non-official videos seems to be going a bit radical. But hey. The undoubtedly positive thing from this is I guess the streaming figures provided by Billboard/Nielsen now will fall in line exactly with the streaming numbers that count towards estimating RIAA certifications. RIAA also only counts video streams from official label uploads. However RIAA likely counts logged-out views for its certifications which Billboard doesn't (starting this year) |
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fridayteenage
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Post by fridayteenage on Sept 14, 2020 19:58:56 GMT -5
Based on last weekยดs YT chart for the Hot 100 top 5: Song Top Songs Music Videos % difference WAP 23.2 M 11.67 M -49.7% Dynamite 5.94 M 5.94 M 0% LNCL 11.6 M 10.8 M -8.6% Rockstar 8.58 M 3.38 M -60.6% BL 3.73 M Not in Top 100 ?
0% of Dynamite's YT streams were from unofficial sources? I dunno about that. |
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garrettlen
Gold Member
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Posts: 882
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Post by garrettlen on Sept 14, 2020 21:52:47 GMT -5
I think Heather, you broke me first, mad at disney will take hits (I guess mad at disney technically isn't charting yet though). Other songs that could also take hits but will still be fine because of Spotify, AM, or Radio are WAP, Before You Go, and Savage Love. Heather will probably take the biggest hit though because radio hasn't picked it up that much. So they put in YouTube too late to get Gangnam its deserved #1 but in time for that Harlem shake thing, and now they may dent Asian talent conan gray's chart run? Hmm. Are you suggesting that Billboard may have some kind of anti-Asian bias? Kyu Sakamoto and BTS would probably both disagree with you. |
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Post by Naos on Sept 14, 2020 23:45:29 GMT -5
New arrivals this week:
#97 - "Why Would I Stop?" by Big Sean
#96 - "Everywhere But On" by Matt Stell
#95 - "Body Language" by Big Sean featuring Ty Dolla $ign & Jhene Aiko
#91 - "Love You Like I Used To" by Russell Dickerson
#82 - "Deep Reverence" by Big Sean featuring Nipsey Hussle
#69 - "Lithuania" by Big Sean featuring Travis Scott
#65 - "Wolves" by Big Sean featuring Post Malone
#64 - "Relacion" by Sech, ROSALIA, Daddy Yankee, J Balvin & Farruko
#62 - "The Voice" by Lil Durk
#29 - "Hit Different" by SZA featuring Ty Dolla $ign
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tanooki
Diamond Member
2019 Breakthrough
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Posts: 10,118
Pronouns: they/she/fae
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Post by tanooki on Sept 14, 2020 23:53:13 GMT -5
1 | Cardi B Featuring Megan Thee Stallion - WAP | 5 | 1
2 | BTS - Dynamite | 3 | 1
3 | Drake Featuring Lil Durk - Laugh Now Cry Later | 4 | 2
4 | DaBaby Featuring Roddy Ricch - Rockstar | 21 | 1
5 | The Weeknd - Blinding Lights | 41 | 1
6 | 24kGoldn Featuring iann dior - Mood | 5 | 6
7 | Harry Styles - Watermelon Sugar | 25 | 1
8 | Jack Harlow Featuring DaBaby, Tory Lanez & Lil Wayne - Whats Poppin | 31 | 2
9 | Jawsh 685 x Jason Derulo - Savage Love | 13 | 7
10 | DJ Khaled Featuring Drake - Popstar | 8 | 3
11 | Lewis Capaldi - Before You Go | 32 | 10
12 | Gabby Barrett - I Hope | 37 | 10
13 | SAINt JHN - Roses | 25 | 4
14 | Chris Brown & Young Thug - Go Crazy | 18 | 9
15 | Pop Smoke Featuring Lil Baby & DaBaby - For The Night | 10 | 6
16 | Post Malone - Circles | 54 | 1
17 | Dua Lipa - Break My Heart | 24 | 13
18 | Harry Styles - Adore You | 40 | 6
19 | Juice WRLD x Marshmello - Come & Go | 9 | 2
20 | Saweetie - Tap In | 9 | 20
21 | Pop Smoke Featuring Lil Tjay - Mood Swings | 10 | 17
22 | Lee Brice - One Of Them Girls | 15 | 22
23 | Luke Combs - Lovin' On You | 11 | 23
24 | Kane Brown With Swae Lee & Khalid - Be Like That | 9 | 22
25 | Dua Lipa - Don't Start Now | 45 | 2
26 | Jason Aldean - Got What I Got | 15 | 26
27 | Pop Smoke Featuring 50 Cent & Roddy Ricch - The Woo | 10 | 11
28 | Maren Morris - The Bones | 51 | 12
29 | SZA Featuring Ty Dolla $ign - Hit Different | 1 | 29
30 | JP Saxe Featuring Julia Michaels - If The World Was Ending | 24 | 27
31 | Maddie & Tae - Die From A Broken Heart | 22 | 22
32 | Megan Thee Stallion Featuring Beyonce - Savage | 26 | 1
33 | Future Featuring Drake - Life Is Good | 35 | 2
34 | Miley Cyrus - Midnight Sky | 4 | 14
35 | Rod Wave Featuring ATR Son Son - Rags2Riches | 11 | 12
36 | Kane Brown - Cool Again | 15 | 36
37 | Lady Gaga & Ariana Grande - Rain On Me | 16 | 1
38 | Internet Money & Gunna Featuring Don Toliver & NAV - Lemonade | 4 | 38
39 | Powfu Featuring beabadoobee - Death Bed | 26 | 23
40 | Doja Cat Featuring Nicki Minaj - Say So | 36 | 1
41 | Lil Mosey - Blueberry Faygo | 31 | 8
42 | Morgan Wallen - Chasin' You | 33 | 16
43 | Juice WRLD - Wishing Well | 9 | 5
44 | Maroon 5 - Nobody's Love | 7 | 41
45 | Megan Thee Stallion - Girls In The Hood | 11 | 28
46 | Conan Gray - Heather | 4 | 46
47 | Lil Baby & 42 Dugg - We Paid | 19 | 10
48 | Justin Bieber Featuring Quavo - Intentions | 31 | 5
49 | BLACKPINK X Selena Gomez - Ice Cream | 2 | 13
50 | Doja Cat Featuring Gucci Mane - Like That | 15 | 50
51 | AJR - Bang! | 10 | 51
52 | Taylor Swift - Cardigan | 7 | 1
53 | Morgan Wallen - More Than My Hometown | 13 | 53
54 | Dan + Shay - I Should Probably Go To Bed | 6 | 43
55 | Maluma - Hawai | 3 | 55
56 | Luke Bryan - One Margarita | 19 | 19
57 | HARDY Featuring Lauren Alaina & Devin Dawson - One Beer | 14 | 57
58 | Lil Baby - The Bigger Picture | 13 | 3
59 | surf mesa Featuring Emilee - ily | 16 | 59
60 | Topic & A7S - Breaking Me | 7 | 60
61 | StaySolidRocky - Party Girl | 20 | 21
62 | Lil Durk - The Voice | 1 | 62
63 | Chloe X Halle - Do It | 4 | 63
64 | Sech, ROSALIA, Daddy Yankee, J Balvin & Farruko - Relacion | 1 | 64
65 | Big Sean Featuring Post Malone - Wolves | 1 | 65
66 | Ava Max - Kings & Queens | 5 | 66
67 | DJ Khaled Featuring Drake - Greece | 8 | 8
68 | Machine Gun Kelly X blackbear - My Ex's Best Friend | 4 | 68
69 | Big Sean Featuring Travis Scott - Lithuania | 1 | 69
70 | Jameson Rodgers - Some Girls | 5 | 70
71 | Moneybagg Yo - Said Sum | 10 | 44
72 | Morgan Wallen - 7 Summers | 4 | 6
73 | Money Man Featuring Lil Baby - 24 | 4 | 63
74 | Juice WRLD & The Weeknd - Smile | 5 | 8
75 | J Balvin, Dua Lipa, Bad Bunny & Tainy - Un Dia | 7 | 63
76 | Ozuna - Caramelo | 4 | 76
77 | Blake Shelton Featuring Gwen Stefani - Happy Anywhere | 7 | 56
78 | Calvin Harris X The Weeknd - Over Now | 2 | 38
79 | Parker McCollum - Pretty Heart | 9 | 75
80 | Tim McGraw - I Called Mama | 6 | 61
81 | Polo G - Martin & Gina | 6 | 61
82 | Big Sean Featuring Nipsey Hussle - Deep Reverence | 1 | 82
83 | Chris Stapleton - Starting Over | 2 | 57
84 | Ashley McBryde - One Night Standards | 14 | 76
85 | Tate McRae - You Broke Me First. | 3 | 85
86 | WhoHeem - Lets Link | 2 | 86
87 | YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Kacey Talk | 4 | 58
88 | Gunna Featuring Young Thug - Dollaz On My Head | 14 | 38
89 | Jon Pardi - Ain't Always The Cowboy | 2 | 89
90 | Billie Eilish - My Future | 6 | 6
91 | Russell Dickerson - Love You Like I Used To | 1 | 91
92 | Chase Rice - Lonely If You Are | 4 | 92
93 | Justin Moore - Why We Drink | 15 | 50
94 | Don Toliver - After Party | 20 | 57
95 | Big Sean Featuring Ty Dolla $ign & Jhene Aiko - Body Language | 1 | 95
96 | Matt Stell - Everywhere But On | 1 | 96
97 | Big Sean - Why Would I Stop? | 1 | 97
98 | Nio Garcia x Anuel AA x Myke Towers x Brray x Juanka - La Jeepeta | 5 | 93
99 | Migos Featuring YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Need It | 15 | 62
100 | Ariana Grande & Justin Bieber - Stuck With U | 18 | 1
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Post by Naos on Sept 15, 2020 0:03:08 GMT -5
Bubbling Under:
1. 6ix9ine - Tutu (debut)
2. Karol G - Ay, Dios Mio! (=)
3. YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Callin (debut)
4. Big Sean - Harder Than My Demons (debut)
5. Niko Moon - Good Time (+4)
6. Big Sean - Lucky Me (debut)
7. Sada Baby - Whole Lotta Choppas (debut)
8. Rauw Alejandro & Camilo - Tattoo (-1)
9. Big Sean - ZTFO (debut)
10. Big Sean - Friday Night Cipher (debut)
11. Tainy & J Balvin - Agua (-5)
12. Chris Lane - Big, Big Plans (+2)
13. Pop Smoke - Hello (=)
14. VEDO - You Got It (debut)
15. Bryson Tiller - Inhale (debut)
16. Zach Williams & Dolly Parton - There Was Jesus (-6)
17. Curtis Waters - Stunnin (-5)
18. Machine Gun Kelly - Bloody Valentine (=)
19. Young Dolph - RNB (-2)
20. Ozuna, Doja Cat & Sia - Del Mar (debut)
21. YFN Lucci - Wet. (-10)
22. Ne-Yo & Jeremih - U 2 Luv (=)
23. DaBaby - Blind (re-entry)
24. Kip Moore - She's Mine (=)
25. City Girls - Pu**y Talk (-2)
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dremolus - solarpunk
Diamond Member
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Posts: 13,325
My Reviews
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 15, 2020 0:09:47 GMT -5
Be a Light, God Whispered Your Name, and I Love My Country are gone. Chasin' You, Say So, Stuck with U, and Intentions live for another week.
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Post by Naos on Sept 15, 2020 0:18:21 GMT -5
Notable gains:
#38 - Lemonade (+16)
#53 - More Than My Hometown (+10)
#57 - One Beer (+15)
#59 - ily (+11)
#60 - Breaking Me (+11)
#89 - Ain't Always The Cowboy (+10)
Notable losses:
#49 - Ice Cream (-36)
#56 - One Margarita (-13)
#72 - 7 Summers (-16)
#74 - Smile (-15)
#78 - Over Now (-40)
#83 - Starting Over (-26)
#87 - Kacey Talk (-14)
#90 - My Future (-12)
#93 - Why We Drink (-17)
#99 - Need It (-11)
Re-entries:
#63 - Do It
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Post by Naos on Sept 15, 2020 0:23:05 GMT -5
Dropouts:
- "Be a Light" by Thomas Rhett featuring Reba McEntire, Hillary Scott, Chris Tomlin & Keith Urban (#42 peak, 22 weeks)
- "I Love My Country" by Florida Georgia Line (#40 peak, 20 weeks)
- "God Whispered Your Name" by Keith Urban (#60 peak, 20 weeks)
- "Done" by Chris Janson (#41 peak, 12 weeks)
- "The 1" by Taylor Swift (#4 peak, 6 weeks)
- "3 Headed Goat" by Lil Durk featuring Lil Baby & Polo G (#43 peak, 11 weeks)
- "Got It On Me" by Pop Smoke (#31 peak, 9 weeks)
- "Girl Of My Dreams" by Rod Wave (#65 peak, 16 weeks)
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Post by smallbubble on Sept 15, 2020 1:17:42 GMT -5
Another downweight of streaming...Holy moly...Somehow it was not enough to strip off WAP's NO.1 this week. I dare you to do the same to website sales billboard...  |
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Post by Naos on Sept 15, 2020 2:34:45 GMT -5
Top 10 artists in the US (Artist 100):
1. BTS (=) *9th week at #1*
2. Big Sean (re-entry)
3. 6ix9ine (re-entry)
4. Taylor Swift (-2)
5. Juice WRLD (-2)
6. Harry Styles (-1)
7. Luke Combs (+2)
8. Pop Smoke (-1)
9. Drake (+1)
10. Post Malone (+2)
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