leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Feb 3, 2022 18:21:24 GMT -5
I wonder, with Cassie's Me & U. How come it did soooo well on airplay but had weak digital sales? Because her album also didnt really sell. Usually, for a single artist/one hit wonder, single sales tend to do far better than the airplay, because people aren't interested to buy the whole album as well. Any explanation?
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degen
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Post by degen on Feb 3, 2022 18:46:50 GMT -5
A one hit act like Cassie is pretty faceless. It was a radio hit with nothing more to it. I always felt like digital sales benefitted big names more so than someone like a Cassie. And maybe this is why she never had a hit after that? I mean the writing was on the wall because the fan fare was so minimal. Whereas someone like Lady Gaga had both the airplay and sales to back up her debut single, it was pretty obvious her next single would do well too.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 3, 2022 19:04:15 GMT -5
I wonder, with Cassie's Me & U. How come it did soooo well on airplay but had weak digital sales? Because her album also didnt really sell. Usually, for a single artist/one hit wonder, single sales tend to do far better than the airplay, because people aren't interested to buy the whole album as well. Any explanation? R&B singles usually had soft digital sales in general, even if the artist wasn't an album seller. Ciara, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown, Keyshia Cole, and the likes all did worse in digital sales than radio the majority of the time in the 2000s.
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Feb 3, 2022 19:16:07 GMT -5
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Feb 3, 2022 19:19:29 GMT -5
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Feb 3, 2022 19:42:40 GMT -5
I wonder, with Cassie's Me & U. How come it did soooo well on airplay but had weak digital sales? Because her album also didnt really sell. Usually, for a single artist/one hit wonder, single sales tend to do far better than the airplay, because people aren't interested to buy the whole album as well. Any explanation? R&B singles usually had soft digital sales in general, even if the artist wasn't an album seller. Ciara, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown, Keyshia Cole, and the likes all did worse in digital sales than radio the majority of the time in the 2000s. Ahh that's logical. Those R&B musicians you mention somehow had some great airplay hits, but failed to chart higher on Hot 100 because of average digital sales. It also explains why Mary J Blige's Be Without You also had weak digital sales, depite massive airplay. Well at least she sold album, unlike Cassie.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 3, 2022 19:45:27 GMT -5
R&B singles usually had soft digital sales in general, even if the artist wasn't an album seller. Ciara, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown, Keyshia Cole, and the likes all did worse in digital sales than radio the majority of the time in the 2000s. Ahh that's logical. Those R&B musicians you mention somehow had some great airplay hits, but failed to chart higher on Hot 100 because of average digital sales. It also explains why Mary J Blige's Be Without You also had weak digital sales, depite massive airplay. Well at least she sold album, unlike Cassie. It was such a reversal from the 90s where a lot of R&B songs had great sales but not as great of airplay, so they were often held back on the Hot 100.
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85la
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Post by 85la on Feb 3, 2022 23:42:42 GMT -5
Yes, it was good to have the variety and consumer influence, but just a little too much influence imo. I'll always maintain that radio, while offering the least in consumer choice, does show the widest reach in terms of audience level that a song can have, and this should stand for something. It would have been nice if sales and airplay could each have had equal weight, such that any song could realistically get to #1 with high enough numbers in either metric while lacking in the other, however this wasn't always the case throughout the digital era. For instance, as previously mentioned and as we're already starting to see, songs like Cassie's Me and U or Mary J. Blige's Be Without You, despite having huge multiple week airplay numbers, could never have a chance at #1 unless they were also smashing in the top 3-ish in sales, while many other songs with digital-heavy numbers could easily get to #1 even if their airplay was far, far, out of the top 10. There are also lots of examples of #1 sales hits during that time that couldn't get to #1 on the Hot 100 because their airplay wasn't high enough (Fergalicious, Crazy, How to Save a Life all from 2006 alone, and all hit the top 10 on airplay). Why is it ok if big sales hits miss #1 but not ok if big airplay hits miss #1? That's not what I said, I said that sales and airplay should have been weighed equally so that a song primarily doing well on either one could have a shot. The way the formula was set up back then, 100K sales was equal to 200 million radio impressions, so this clearly gave sales much more of an advantage, as songs could easily pass 100k in sales, but very rarely even reach 200 million impressions. As iHype stated in the 2006 Highlights, there were only 16 weeks of the year that the Hot 100 #1 was also #1 in radio, but 33 weeks where the Hot 100 #1 was also #1 in sales. The examples you provided is cherry picking, because overall, songs that did better in sales tended to do better on the Hot 100.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 4, 2022 9:53:31 GMT -5
Highlights:- The turnover for #1 was becoming a revolving door. It wasn't until June that a 2007 #1 hit 3 weeks #1. - The Hot 100 became more and more closer to a sales-dominated chart with the current formula. It got to the point where the chart was nearly 75% sales and 25% airplay, causing a formula change in the middle of the year. - With the formula change sales points were reduced in half, going back to the divider they had pre-2005. This also helped reduce the growing turnover at the top. - Similar to the streaming era introducing new chart-staples, digital era had began introducing its chart-staples/beneficiaries. It seemed every few months a new Timberlake/Nelly Furtado/Fergie/Rihanna/Timbaland single was topping the charts. - Billboard began experimenting with music streaming for the first time and added AOL/Yahoo! Music streams in the Hot 100, which for some reason, many people aren't aware of. - Streaming was only supposed to be 5% of the overall chart, thus it really only helped when positions were close. The #1 song usually got 10-20 points from streams.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 4, 2022 10:13:10 GMT -5
Random side note: I have no memory of "Give It To Me" even existing in 2007. The only #1 from that year that truly stands out to me as fluke-ish, despite the large amount of #1s that year. (Well actually "This Is Why I'm Hot" too now that I think)
Kind of continues the point made in the Hot 100 thread a month or two ago re: "One Right Now" -- manufactured superstar collaborations tend to be disappointments chart wise most of the time, and in this instance, even when they actually *do* manage to be a chart success they somehow still end up feeling forgettable in the end.
Can be argued the most forgettable #1 that year and isn't anywhere near similar memorability to Nelly/JT/Timbaland's other #1 hits from mid 2000s.
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Feb 4, 2022 10:34:47 GMT -5
Random side note: I have no memory of "Give It To Me" even existing in 2007. The only #1 from that year that truly stands out to me as fluke-ish, despite the large amount of #1s that year. (Well actually "This Is Why I'm Hot" too now that I think) Kind of continues the point made in the Hot 100 thread a month or two ago re: "One Right Now" -- manufactured superstar collaborations tend to be disappointments chart wise most of the time, and in this instance, even when they actually *do* manage to be a chart success they somehow still end up feeling forgettable in the end. Can be argued the most forgettable #1 that year and isn't anywhere near similar memorability to Nelly/JT/Timbaland's other #1 hits from mid 2000s. I don’t remember Give It To Me either, but I can name pretty much all of the Justin Timberlake songs (SexyBack, What Goes Around, Summer Love) and Nelly Furtado songs (Promiscuous, Maneater, Say It Right) during that time. Also, that Buy U a Drink number looks like a misprint. It looks like it should be 379, 389, or even 419. I highly doubt Makes Me Wonder fell off 80+ points that week, and rebounded 60+ points the next week. (Maybe in 2020 that could happen, but certainly not in 2007.)
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Feb 4, 2022 10:47:30 GMT -5
Also, that Buy U a Drink number looks like a misprint. It looks like it should be 379, 389, or even 419. I highly doubt Makes Me Wonder fell off 80+ points that week, and rebounded 60+ points the next week. This might've been the week Maroon 5's album came out, and thus "complete my album" meant sales dropped for the single? I think it took them a little while to adjust their scoring system so that "complete my album" wasn't causing songs to have these artificial drops. iHype has the answer below, my bad!
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 4, 2022 10:48:57 GMT -5
I don’t remember Give It To Me either, but I can name pretty much all of the Justin Timberlake songs (SexyBack, What Goes Around, Summer Love) and Nelly Furtado songs (Promiscuous, Maneater, Say It Right) during that time. Also, that Buy U a Drink number looks like a misprint. It looks like it should be 379, 389, or even 419. I highly doubt Makes Me Wonder fell off 80+ points that week, and rebounded 60+ points the next week. Not a misprint. "Makes Me Wonder" was performed on American Idol, which gave it a notable sales boost and sent it back to #1. May 19, 2007: Digital Songs - #1: Makes Me Wonder, 177K = 354 points Radio Songs - #23: Makes Me Wonder, 45~ million = 45 points = 399 points May 26, 2007: Digital Songs - #1: Makes Me Wonder, 131K = 262 points Radio Songs - #22: Makes Me Wonder, 48~ million = 48 points = 310 points June 2, 2007: Digital Songs - #1: Makes Me Wonder, 164K = 328 points Radio Songs - #22: Makes Me Wonder, 49~ million = 49 points = 377 points
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Groovy
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Post by Groovy on Feb 4, 2022 12:35:22 GMT -5
It's crazy, I remember all of Fergie's other hits but I don't remember Big Girls Don't Cry being a hit at all let alone her biggest one.
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inverse
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Post by inverse on Feb 4, 2022 14:36:18 GMT -5
Random side note: I have no memory of "Give It To Me" even existing in 2007. The only #1 from that year that truly stands out to me as fluke-ish, despite the large amount of #1s that year. (Well actually "This Is Why I'm Hot" too now that I think) Kind of continues the point made in the Hot 100 thread a month or two ago re: "One Right Now" -- manufactured superstar collaborations tend to be disappointments chart wise most of the time, and in this instance, even when they actually *do* manage to be a chart success they somehow still end up feeling forgettable in the end. Can be argued the most forgettable #1 that year and isn't anywhere near similar memorability to Nelly/JT/Timbaland's other #1 hits from mid 2000s. Song slaps though Way more deserving than "This is why i'm hot" which just had a disgusting amount of radio play.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 4, 2022 16:17:39 GMT -5
It's crazy, I remember all of Fergie's other hits but I don't remember Big Girls Don't Cry being a hit at all let alone her biggest one. Her biggest? Anyway it's my favorite Fergie song.
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Feb 4, 2022 17:24:42 GMT -5
I was only in 2nd grade the 07 - 08 school year and I remember Big Girls Don't Cry being huge. A lot of kids at my school at least liked it. Anyway, talk about a transition year. 2007 was a weird mix of core and late 2000's vibes
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Feb 4, 2022 17:41:19 GMT -5
I was only in 2nd grade the 07 - 08 school year and I remember Big Girls Don't Cry being huge. A lot of kids at my school at least liked it. Anyway, talk about a transition year. 2007 was a weird mix of core and late 2000's vibes 2007 was my first year of college. Big Girls Don’t Cry was memorable because of that “I’m Gonna Miss You Like a Child Misses Their Blanklet” line. I don’t think 2007 was a transition year. That period from 2006-2008 was awful, and it rivals 1988-1991 as one of the worst periods in music history. I thought the transition years were 2005 (in a bad way) and 2009 (in a good way).
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Feb 4, 2022 18:09:55 GMT -5
After Fergalicious, This Ain't Scene, Smack That, all stalled at no. 2 behind Irreplaceable, Say It Right was so lucky to make no. 1, despite didnt top neither sales nor airplay. I wonder, did Irreplaceable really dropped harder on points that week?
Also, how close Britney's Gimme More from no. 1??? It jumped high to no. 3
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Post by Private Dancer on Feb 4, 2022 18:53:05 GMT -5
So how did Say It Right top the charts?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 4, 2022 18:56:49 GMT -5
After Fergalicious, This Ain't Scene, Smack That, all stalled at no. 2 behind Irreplaceable, Say It Right was so lucky to make no. 1, despite didnt top neither sales nor airplay. I wonder, did Irreplaceable really dropped harder on points that week? "Irreplaceable" fell 7-10 in sales; it was still #1 in airplay. The #2 in airplay ("Runaway Love") was #11 in sales. So, "SIR" was the more consistent song as it was top 5 in both metrics. It increased 5% in airplay and 3% in sales. Private Dancer
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Feb 4, 2022 19:06:45 GMT -5
After Fergalicious, This Ain't Scene, Smack That, all stalled at no. 2 behind Irreplaceable, Say It Right was so lucky to make no. 1, despite didnt top neither sales nor airplay. I wonder, did Irreplaceable really dropped harder on points that week? "Irreplaceable" fell 7-10 in sales; it was still #1 in airplay. The #2 in airplay ("Runaway Love") was #11 in sales. So, "SIR" was the more consistent song as it was top 5 in both metrics. It increased 5% in airplay and 3% in sales. Private DancerMary J Blige was denied from no. 1 again because of low sales...
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 4, 2022 19:10:27 GMT -5
"Irreplaceable" fell 7-10 in sales; it was still #1 in airplay. The #2 in airplay ("Runaway Love") was #11 in sales. So, "SIR" was the more consistent song as it was top 5 in both metrics. It increased 5% in airplay and 3% in sales. Private DancerMary J Blige was denied from no. 1 again because of low sales... Yeah "RL" was then #1 in airplay the next 2 weeks (at least) but was 9 and then 11 in sales those two weeks. "What Goes Around..." and then "This Is Why I'm Not" were each #1 in sales those 2 weeks (and top 10 in airplay) and #1 on the Hot 100.
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Post by Private Dancer on Feb 4, 2022 20:14:37 GMT -5
"Irreplaceable" fell 7-10 in sales; it was still #1 in airplay. The #2 in airplay ("Runaway Love") was #11 in sales. So, "SIR" was the more consistent song as it was top 5 in both metrics. It increased 5% in airplay and 3% in sales. Private DancerMary J Blige was denied from no. 1 again because of low sales... So MJB would've had 3 number ones!!!!!
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85la
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Post by 85la on Feb 4, 2022 23:58:22 GMT -5
In terms of the most forgettable #1 of 2007, for me it wasn't Give It To Me, I mean it wasn't absolutely massive or anything, but I remember it being a thing for a short couple months, and I was living in L.A. at the time and it actually topped that market's biggest pop station's year-end playlist, 102.7 KIIS FM. To me, This Is Why I'm Hot was the most forgettable - that was a quick minute.
And then it's interesting with the major formula change this year, the reduction in sales points by half in August, that this ended up disadvantaging songs that were hits after that because they didn't adjust for this formula change when compiling the year-end chart; they still just used the raw sales points (and the small amount that was added for streaming couldn't make up any ground), so many songs you think would place high ended up much lower, including Big Girls Don't Cry, Beautiful Girls, and Crank That.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 5, 2022 5:22:24 GMT -5
In terms of the most forgettable #1 of 2007, for me it wasn't Give It To Me, I mean it wasn't absolutely massive or anything, but I remember it being a thing for a short couple months, and I was living in L.A. at the time and it actually topped that market's biggest pop station's year-end playlist, 102.7 KIIS FM. To me, This Is Why I'm Hot was the most forgettable - that was a quick minute.I feel like TIWIH is definitely forgettable and also arguably least remembered today, but when I go back to actually being in the mid 2000s... it was ringtone rap that was dominating the culture and that was what felt the most present. This Is Why I'm Hot, Laffy Taffy, Lean Wit It Rock Wit It, Throw Some D's, etc are all very forgotten today but they felt big back then and for sure felt like legitimate hits. Crank That probably by far also felt like the biggest hit of 2007 back then but obviously there's a few that probably have held up better in 2022. For me, Give It To Me is that *one* #1 hit that just escaped my personal radar altogether. Everyone usually has one or two even if everyone else couldn't escape them.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 5, 2022 5:43:05 GMT -5
Speaking of the ringtone rap era I've thought it was interesting the fact Billboard never considered adding ringtone sales to Hot 100. In the mid 2000s ringtone sales for hits were just as high as digital sales. Also -- ringtones cost more than digital sales did at the time. iTunes was $0.99 for downloads, while ringtones were $0.99-$2. I think the main reason they never decided to include them was obviously the Hot 100 would've started going back to looking how it was in the early 2000s with R&B/Hip-Hop chokeholding again. Ringtones were also only a snippet of the song is the most reasonable argument... but logically, they paid a full-price and were paying for a song. Ringtones even had a Billboard chart and also began getting certified with RIAA. The industry was clearly invested in tracking them as a sales format. Lots of R&B/Hip-Hop used to have weak digital downloads but then you also do have to consider looking back they were selling a lot through ringtones. (Example: "Buy U A Drank" never reaching #1 on Digital Sales, but was the #1 selling ringtone of the year and sold 150k+ ringtones weekly at its height) Perhaps many ringtone buyers didn't want to spend money purchasing the same song again on iTunes... especially when you could illegally download it for free (whereas with ringtones you couldn't).
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 5, 2022 7:38:01 GMT -5
I think the main reason they never decided to include them was obviously the Hot 100 would've started going back to looking how it was in the early 2000s with R&B/Hip-Hop chokeholding again. Ringtones were also only a snippet of the song is the most reasonable argument... but logically, they paid a full-price and were paying for a song. Ringtones even had a Billboard chart and also began getting certified with RIAA. The industry was clearly invested in tracking them as a sales format. Well and playing a snippet of a song now can still count as a stream. I do wish ringtones had been counted because it was definitely a proactive form of music consumption.
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Post by Private Dancer on Feb 5, 2022 9:41:01 GMT -5
That's strange that no one remembers "Give It To Me". I was in kindergarten transitioning into 1st grade and I remember the song come on all the time, at least twice a day. They played it in 2007, but after 2007 I never heard it on the radio again.
Big Girls Don't Cry is very nostalgic for me. I remember towards the end of the summer of 2007 and early fall Big Girls Don't Cry was constantly on MTV/VH1 and always came on the radio. It reminds me of a sunny afternoon after school. Big Girls Don't Cry wasn't overplayed, but it definitely came on the radio a lot. That song was inescapable. It still gets airplay on my local AC station. But yes, at the time it felt huge and tbh it felt more like a multi week #1. At least, 4 weeks.
This Is Why I'm Hot was huge and highly overplayed. I heard it on urban and pop stations. I never liked the song due to severe, but everyone around me did especially at school. It was cute for its time.
Funny how songs can be huge in their time only to not be heard of again
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Feb 5, 2022 10:07:39 GMT -5
Big Girls Don't Cry was like the 2007 version of She Will Be Loved. Both were late album singles that got big in the late summer/early fall period. The reason why She Will Be Loved wasn't a #1 was because Rhythmic and R&B/Hip-Hop was weighed much more heavily than Pop. If the 2007 formula had been in place in late summer/early fall 2004, She Will Be Loved would have likely been a #1. Let's be honest, Lean Back wasn't bigger than She Will Be Loved.
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