R.K.
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Post by R.K. on Aug 1, 2022 22:41:45 GMT -5
I'm just noticing this in general, with this Kelis stuff and whatnot too. I think a lot of these industry people are just tired of the narrative that we have to praise Beyonce and not question/complain about anything she does, and they are lashing out how they feel even if in some cases it does look a bit overreaching and ridiculous. There might be a slice of truth in there. Not that it's Beyoncé's fault, but the industry and media in general have always wanted just one or two black female pop superstar to thrive at a time, ever since Diana Ross. And bc Beyoncé has had this incredible longevity, I can see how some artists might feel like they're in this Beyoncé/Rihanna monopoly that's inherently rigged against them. But again, it's not like Beyoncé really went out of her way to sabotage anyone's career. She just happens to be the most complete package and people bought it. I honestly don't know what these people want from her, make people stop liking her?... |
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magik
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Post by magik on Aug 1, 2022 22:42:09 GMT -5
However I also think it's a bit interesting that this once again proves that there is some level of 'you cannot critique Beyonce culture' Beyonce fans like to somehow still deny exists. Plenty of other artists have had this critique/questioning used when they had countless writers in their music, but somehow specifically with Beyonce you cannot question any facet of her artistry or what she does. This in turn I feel does make some people like Diane *want* to question her or discredit her, and why so many people feel they have to be stubborn in regards to Beyonce. I'm just noticing this in general, with this Kelis stuff and whatnot too. I think a lot of these industry people are just tired of the narrative that we have to praise Beyonce and not question/complain about anything she does, and they are lashing out how they feel even if in some cases it does look a bit overreaching and ridiculous. Except that people have ALWAYS critiqued Beyonce for every little thing she does. Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, people always come for her, whether it is her personal life, her artistry, her talent, her legacy, EVERYTHING! "Beyonce is overrated" is always brought up every single time she does something (or even when she doesn't do anything), despite there are lots of other talentless people running the charts right now. "Beyonce is a capitalist, tax the rich" argument is always brought up every single time, while a certain other black female billionaire is praised for achieving the same thing. Remember the "Run The World" vs "Bohemian Rhapsody" meme that went on on Tumblr a few years ago. It became super popular and she quickly became a punching bag, and I still see that meme going around online these days too. And with Beyonce, these critiques don't only stay on the internet. They get brought up on TV news, talk shows, etc. The "Beyonce can't sing" notion has been going on since decades, despite her being one of the best current vocalists in Pop & R&B. Rappers say offensive things all the time and no one bats an eye. Beyonce says one offensive word and it made to the Guardian homepage. Harry's & Adele's albums got leaked but it stayed on stan twitter, Beyonce's album got leaked then it got reported on CNN leading more people to check out the leak. Not to mention the "Formation" infamous controversy, the police boycotting her concert, the Black is King release resulting in hundreds of think pieces, and many many more. So really, I don't get where the "you cannot critique Beyonce" argument is coming from. As a matter of fact, it's actually the opposite. And this is the reason why a lot of her fans are very defensive about it. People who are considered "perfectionists" tend to be critiqued more. And sometimes the Hive can be a bit much when it comes to even the smallest criticisms. Sure, the "Beyoncé can't sing" may be extreme (sorry, but I haven't seen much of this), but the whole race-baiting when it comes to every single not-so A+ review or critique is a bit overbearing. I do think they have a lot to do with why Beyoncé gets critiqued so hard or harder than others. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 1, 2022 22:43:12 GMT -5
However I also think it's a bit interesting that this once again proves that there is some level of 'you cannot critique Beyonce culture' Beyonce fans like to somehow still deny exists. Plenty of other artists have had this critique/questioning used when they had countless writers in their music, but somehow specifically with Beyonce you cannot question any facet of her artistry or what she does. This in turn I feel does make some people like Diane *want* to question her or discredit her, and why so many people feel they have to be stubborn in regards to Beyonce. I'm just noticing this in general, with this Kelis stuff and whatnot too. I think a lot of these industry people are just tired of the narrative that we have to praise Beyonce and not question/complain about anything she does, and they are lashing out how they feel even if in some cases it does look a bit overreaching and ridiculous. Except that people have ALWAYS critiqued Beyonce for every little thing she does. Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, people always come for her, whether it is her personal life, her artistry, her talent, her legacy, EVERYTHING! "Beyonce is overrated" is always brought up every single time she does something (or even when she doesn't do anything), despite there are lots of other talentless people running the charts right now. "Beyonce is a capitalist, tax the rich" argument is always brought up every single time, while a certain other black female billionaire is praised for achieving the same thing. Remember the "Run The World" vs "Bohemian Rhapsody" meme that went on on Tumblr a few years ago. It became super popular and she quickly became a punching bag, and I still see that meme going around online these days too. And with Beyonce, these critiques don't only stay on the internet. They get brought up on TV news, talk shows, etc. The "Beyonce can't sing" notion has been going on since decades, despite her being one of the best current vocalists in Pop & R&B. Rappers say offensive things all the time and no one bats an eye. Beyonce says one offensive word and it made to the Guardian homepage. Harry's & Adele's albums got leaked but it stayed on stan twitter, Beyonce's album got leaked then it got reported on CNN leading more people to check out the leak. Not to mention the "Formation" infamous controversy, the police boycotting her concert, the Black is King release resulting in hundreds of think pieces, and many many more. So really, I don't get where the "you cannot critique Beyonce" argument is coming from. As a matter of fact, it's actually the opposite. And this is the reason why a lot of her fans are very defensive about it. Sorry, but I think any other A-list superstar musician gets a lot of those same critiques. I hear Kanye, Drake, Taylor, Ed Sheeran, etc get bashed online all the time for being overrated. It comes with the territory. And yeah obviously things like Formation/Black Is King from an A-list celebrity will naturally stir up controversy and critique. Are you really about to sit here and act like that was just because it was Beyonce? Lmao. They are political messages and cultural messages in today's climate. She wanted to go that route though and explore her artistry that way. No way she didn't expect it to get the coverage and controversy it did though. |
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R.K.
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Post by R.K. on Aug 1, 2022 22:51:08 GMT -5
Back to the album. Radio seems to want Cuff It as the next single, but Alien Superstar is getting loads of buzz on twitter and IG with fun video edits going viral. It might not be a bad idea to ride it out for a while and see if TikTok catches on. Impact next month or next year, radio will eat Cuff It up either way. Alien Superstar, Cuff It, and Cozy could all be huge Urban/Rhythmic hits. All those should be the remaining singles in whichever order is appropriate. Summer Renaissance should be the next single sent to Pop. None of those other songs will go far at Pop at all, not much appeal. Summer Renaissance on the other hand is a gamble, but it is absolutely amazing and has strong Pop appeal. Cuff It can certainly work for Pop. It probably won't be a monster Pop hit (none of these other songs will be let's be honest) but with a fun video or a dance challenge, it can do decent numbers. The Urban smash is def Church Girl. I can see them sending these two out at the same time with Church Girl targeting Urban. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 1, 2022 22:53:58 GMT -5
Alien Superstar, Cuff It, and Cozy could all be huge Urban/Rhythmic hits. All those should be the remaining singles in whichever order is appropriate. Summer Renaissance should be the next single sent to Pop. None of those other songs will go far at Pop at all, not much appeal. Summer Renaissance on the other hand is a gamble, but it is absolutely amazing and has strong Pop appeal. Cuff It can certainly work for Pop. It probably won't be a monster Pop hit (none of these other songs will be let's be honest) but with a fun video or a dance challenge I can see it doing decent numbers. The Urban smash is def Church Girl. Yeah, I heard Church Girl in the clubs 3 times this weekend lmao. I don't know how I skimmed over that one. Church Girl, Alien Superstar, and Cuff It would probably be the best bets for remaining singles in whichever order. Summer Renaissance is by far the one song I think would catch a lot of non-Beyonce fans off guard positively though. |
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Aug 1, 2022 23:18:51 GMT -5
Idk about yall, but I want some damn VISUALS.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 1, 2022 23:26:33 GMT -5
Idk about yall, but I want some damn VISUALS. I feel like BREAK MY SOUL video on Friday would be smart, she could get a second week at #1 🤞🏽 |
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Post by adamalterlago on Aug 1, 2022 23:46:43 GMT -5
Idk about yall, but I want some damn VISUALS. I feel like BREAK MY SOUL video on Friday would be smart, she could get a second week at #1 🤞🏽 For some reason, I think she’s going to combine Acts I-III as a film. This may be the stan in me talking, but I think the trilogy may be a different genre of music per album and how the roots of these genres have bene stolen or lie in black artistry. I’m seeing something along the lines of a musical version of the James Baldwin film “I Am Not Your Negro” (which if you haven’t seen, it’s a must watch). Either way, it’s insane how this woman keeps winning 20+ years into her career. We haven’t had a diva since the Janet, Madonna and Mariah’s to have this kind of bandwidth. |
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Aug 2, 2022 1:08:59 GMT -5
Renaissance isn't that good
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Aug 2, 2022 1:14:58 GMT -5
Good God - can’t we just be happy that a woman over the age of 40 is most likely hitting number #1? From Mariah, Madonna, Cher, etc it’s legend status. I think the original article I saw earlier regarding this statistic was because she was a woman of color over 40. REGARDLESS, it’s an incredible milestone. I would be popping off for any of the main girls if this happened. If they were smart, they would release Cuff It or Church Girls next. Cuff It's good |
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 2, 2022 1:32:45 GMT -5
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Post by adamalterlago on Aug 2, 2022 2:13:22 GMT -5
See all and above 🤣 Bottom line. Beyonce won. |
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Aug 2, 2022 3:08:18 GMT -5
he didn't say that. y'all are saying that.
having long list of songwriter credit happens mostly in recent black music ,driven by hip hop culture.
yes. race does matter in that context. lol only if you knew.
also sampled song's songwriter getting songwriter credit, producers getting songwriter credit, anyone contribute to the song even if just 1 line getting songwriter credit.
all this are basic 101 for professional songwriter in 2022. she was being shady on purpose then pretending it's pure question. lol
“Whole lotta playing the victim and the villain at the same time”
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Aug 2, 2022 3:13:09 GMT -5
The comment was unnecessary -- but on the other hand, imagine if she said that in reaction to a Kanye, Drake, or Nicki Minaj song. She wouldn't have gotten a fraction of backlash and hell, many people going up in flames over this probably would've been laughing or agreeing with her. oh please, Beyonce get the most s**t on in terms of credit among them. kanye who literally have similar producing style as Beyonce get to called genius, greatest producer while she's barely recognized. and diane's tweet got 12k like more than dream's tweet. what blacklash? you overestiamted dragging from your black twitter following. also kelis thing? seriously? if anything kelis thing blowing up like that shows hates and projections people have on B. lol B can't be criticized yet she's literally dragged every week for everything. sounds like projection to me. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 2, 2022 3:45:07 GMT -5
The comment was unnecessary -- but on the other hand, imagine if she said that in reaction to a Kanye, Drake, or Nicki Minaj song. She wouldn't have gotten a fraction of backlash and hell, many people going up in flames over this probably would've been laughing or agreeing with her. oh please, Beyonce get the most s**t on in terms of credit among them. kanye who literally have similar producing style as Beyonce get to called genius, greatest producer while she's barely recognized. and diane's tweet got 12k like more than dream's tweet. what blacklash? you overestiamted dragging from your black twitter following. also kelis thing? seriously? if anything kelis thing blowing up like that shows hates and projections people have on B. lol B can't be criticized yet she's literally dragged every week for everything. sounds like projection to me. Kanye has been producing music for dozens of other artists since the 90s, and has been producing his work his entire career and to a much more notable and influential extent. Kanye’s work as a producer is extremely prevalent in mainstream music period and is easily recognizable. Ofcourse he is rightfully lauded higher for his work as a producer than Beyoncé is, all things considered. The fact you think their resumes as producers are similar is borderline delusion. I’ve seen Kanye get called out by people for having a long lists of credits too (“All Day” in 2015). Same with Nicki/Cardi/Drake having their ability to write raps questioned during their peak. It’s another thing that is common but y’all somehow make it seem as if only Beyonce is critiqued for it and that people have some special agenda with her. Most of this stuff also “blows up” the way it does because BeyHive is such a notable fan base and makes it a scene themselves. If Kelis called out someone like Lil Wayne or something who doesn’t have a notable fan base or presence in 2022, then ofcourse it wouldn’t be big. However any other similar superstar with a similar sized online fan base would attract these headlines and coverage. When that old white man called out Taylor and claimed she didn’t write her music a few months ago that was an even bigger media deal and she felt the need to even respond to it. Again, almost any superstar to her level has dealt with people questioning or discrediting their craft. |
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on Aug 2, 2022 6:11:59 GMT -5
Not to instigate but I firmly believe Beyonce was the lead and head writer of this project. 🤭 ok Cynthia |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 2, 2022 7:07:48 GMT -5
Didn't Patti LaBelle also hit #1 with "On My Own"? I believe she was 41. I'm assuming, they're only talking about solo efforts. But that can't be the case, since Aretha Franklin is mentioned. Yeah, she would have been 41 or 42 when that hit #1. So really, I don't get where the "you cannot critique Beyonce" argument is coming from. As a matter of fact, it's actually the opposite. And this is the reason why a lot of her fans are very defensive about it. The SNL skit about it exists for a reason. |
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 2, 2022 9:28:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry but why are people acting like stans only exist in relation to Beyonce. When you're as popular and famous as her, you're going to see people who've deified her and act like she can't do any wrong. And you're going to find people who act like not liking Beyonce is as important to their self image as their racial identity. You can make the same argument about Barbz, about Swifties. Why are we acting like this is contained to the Hive?
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magik
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Post by magik on Aug 2, 2022 9:49:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry but why are people acting like stans only exist in relation to Beyonce. When you're as popular and famous as her, you're going to see people who've deified her and act like she can't do any wrong. And you're going to find people who act like not liking Beyonce is as important to their self image as their racial identity. You can make the same argument about Barbz, about Swifties. Why are we acting like this is contained to the Hive? Because we're not talking about the Barbz or Swifties. And they get their fair share of criticism, too. |
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 2, 2022 9:56:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry but why are people acting like stans only exist in relation to Beyonce. When you're as popular and famous as her, you're going to see people who've deified her and act like she can't do any wrong. And you're going to find people who act like not liking Beyonce is as important to their self image as their racial identity. You can make the same argument about Barbz, about Swifties. Why are we acting like this is contained to the Hive? Because we're not talking about the Barbz or Swifties. And they get their fair share of criticism, too. Well, some of you brought up other artists and fanbases first in comparison (please see the first post on this page). So, are you not talking about other artists or what? This isn't even a Hive defense, so I'm not sure why you took it that way. It's more of an acknowledgement that this type of response to every little criticism is to be expected by the fanbase of superstar acts. So the "you cannot critique Beyonce culture" argument as some type of unique thing is being addressed here. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 2, 2022 10:20:44 GMT -5
i don’t know how many of you have actually worked in a studio or have been in possession of a modicum of talent but there’s no shame in collaboration and having writers on songs. the creative process is different for everyone and no matter how many people created a body of work - the work still shines. there’s a lot of people (whether they’re credited or not) that go into producing a body of work. very few artists can be completely self-sufficient and even still, they rely on other’s work when it comes to jobs such as set-building, video production, touring and so on. so this idea that the number of writers on a song somehow discredits Beyoncé’s work or talent is irrelevant. you can never discredit talent, charisma, and showmanship. now sip on that. Yeah i don’t get why having multiple co-writers is such a bad thing. I mean, i get why people use it as a point of criticism, when we come from a place where a song can be written by one person, or a pair or songwriters, or a band or whatever, it implies that all songs can and should be written that way. But applying a lens of one music style to all music never works. Music that incorporates sampling or interpolating old songs will always result in adding to the roster of required names on the list of songwriters. Plus, when you’re dealing with pop music, often times you have to deal with involvement of other people for legal reasons, which is itself a different subject (and probably also a little ridiculous). Having your name on the credits = $ and as someone said, Beyonce is a business. All artists are a business but Beyonce in particular is and it’s an angle she plays up. That’s not a bad thing. It doesn’t have to take away one’s credibility as an artist or performer to also play up that business role as part of an image, but it can mean having people involved legally who otherwise might not be there. I guess the question is, how involved is Beyonce on her own songs. Is she there for the concept, the final sign off, the entire process or just parts of it? Does it matter? It comes down to what you value in the music you listen to. For me, it would help with my experience to know she was involved in the music she’s performing because it helps me to connect her to the words she’s singing, but even if she’s not, I listen to Celine and Whitney and perfectly fine that they don’t write the words they sing. Plus, if I want to know with absolute certainty that what i’m listening to has the authenticity of the artist behind it as both writer and singer, there’s a myriad of singer/songwriters out there to listen to. If you don’t think Beyonce is authentic on this record, don’t listen to it. No reason to dwell on the fact others will enjoy it. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 2, 2022 10:23:46 GMT -5
I missed these big diva releases messy threads! We only have a few big divas left we must persevere our history of fighting in their threads. Not to instigate but I firmly believe Beyonce was the lead and head writer of this project. Miss Diane Warren cheesy lyrics ass needs to pipe down. She ain't not Mariah Carey okay with that Kris Jenner haircut Hey now! Diane Warren has written many great song - many many times. The same song. Over and over. Can’t knock that hustle! |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 2, 2022 10:29:36 GMT -5
I'm sure she has contributed to a lot of her songs, but when we also have examples like her writing credit on "Smash Into You" when that already existed as a song, it leaves room for people to question her contribution. Sampling started before the 90s; look at a lot of 80s hip-hop, which was before sampling even got official writing credits. I don't know if what Dream said about the reason for sampling is true, but sampling existed a decade or more before the 1990s. Having said that, plenty of Black writers (from Motown writers to Lionel Richie to Babyface and L.A. Reid to Brenda Russell and more) carved out great careers in the 1960s-1980s without sampling. I’m speaking more about when it started to be added on to writing credit. I know it started before the 90s. You made my clear point about other black artists who didn’t rely on sampling. Hip hop’s roots are in sampling though, rapping over record loops. Crediting for samples didn’t become a thing until the early 90s when lawsuits starting coming up. I’m sure if credits were expanded on with early hip-hop records, the list of names would be a lot longer too - but then it’s really just a technicality at that point just as now when names of sampled works are listed alongside songwriters of the new song. It’s done to avoid lawsuits. Don’t let anyone tell anyone that sampling old music doesn’t require any amount of creativity, skill or talent. 2 songwriters or 20 songwriters, if the song is good, their job was done. |
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on Aug 2, 2022 10:34:08 GMT -5
Pretty sure Diane Warren has worked in a studio. On that note 24 writers is an actual goddamn mess, but like Coco said there’s not a doubt in my mind Beyoncé was the head writer for this. At least lyrically. I'm sorry but why are people acting like stans only exist in relation to Beyonce. When you're as popular and famous as her, you're going to see people who've deified her and act like she can't do any wrong. And you're going to find people who act like not liking Beyonce is as important to their self image as their racial identity. You can make the same argument about Barbz, about Swifties. Why are we acting like this is contained to the Hive? I mean yeah, just look at the Swiftie response to people criticising Taylor for causing global warming or that one person who drew parallels between Taylor and Anne f**king Frank lmao What I find so goofy about this thread isn’t the stanning, but the absolute chaos that is driving the discourse. Unless you’re J’back I’m not checking for it because it’s usually not even fun, just hostile. My personal favorites have been the “you ain’t black” response to an unpopular opinion and someone, who is not black, attempting to educate another poster on black culture and music… and that poster was black. This is honestly peak Pulse content though and I can’t remember the last time this forum completely sent me over the goddamn moon like this so by all means please continue. |
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Aug 2, 2022 10:34:10 GMT -5
Alient Superstar contains 4 samples though. At this point, it’s basically a megamix.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Aug 2, 2022 10:37:25 GMT -5
I do love a good megamix! I wonder if that DJ Earworm stan stans
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 2, 2022 10:39:37 GMT -5
Beyoncé has several documentaries and such that showcase her creative process. I recommend the Year of 4 mini doc to anyone curious about her involvement.
as a fan of The Gift, I enjoyed the "making of" documentary that aired on ABC as well:
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 2, 2022 12:10:11 GMT -5
I've barely ever been in this thread, cuz I am no Beyonce fan. Unfortunately, it continues. I just can't get into this album AT ALL. Her voice just irritates tf outta me. And this wasn't the house music I was expecting, or have come to know since the 90's. This is music you might hear at a cigar lounge or something. Certainly not at the club. Break My Soul is good tho. But again, she's completely overrated by the media as usual.
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Post by adamalterlago on Aug 2, 2022 12:13:16 GMT -5
I've barely ever been in this thread, cuz I am no Beyonce fan. Unfortunately, it continues. I just can't get into this album AT ALL. Her voice just irritates tf outta me. And this wasn't the house music I was expecting, or have come to know since the 90's. This is music you might hear at a cigar lounge or something. Certainly not at the club. Break My Soul is good tho. But again, she's completely overrated by the media as usual. This has MANY of the elements of the house music i know from the 90s. I hear a lot of Chicago house specifically. |
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 2, 2022 12:17:12 GMT -5
I've barely ever been in this thread, cuz I am no Beyonce fan. Unfortunately, it continues. I just can't get into this album AT ALL. Her voice just irritates tf outta me. And this wasn't the house music I was expecting, or have come to know since the 90's. This is music you might hear at a cigar lounge or something. Certainly not at the club. Break My Soul is good tho. But again, she's completely overrated by the media as usual. This has MANY of the elements of the house music i know from the 90s. I hear a lot of Chicago house specifically. true, there are some, but then they are ruined by her voice and lack of melodic tone. Where are the melodies? Virgo's Groove is pretty good I guess. |
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