Taylor Swift - Midnights

[ccchui]

I am surprised to see this officially put out by Universal on Youtube 3 days ago. It is great for us who has no access to this song.

Edit: Wait actually it looks like a fake account - sorry about that. I just took the link down.

[thezatch]

Do we anticipate Taylor unloading all the copies of Midnights (The Late Night Edition) that were pressed for the tour on her website in time for the holidays? I’d love to snag a copy to have “You’re Losing Me” on an actual pressed CD instead of the burned CD in my car. lol

[Choco]

She technically comes back to the US next year so she might sell those then.

But there's a good chance You're Losing Me drops on streaming before that. In any case since the CD doesn't include all the other songs I'd say it's still a skip until a full version happens.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

I wonder what her chances are at AOTY with how big her year continues to get. She doesn't need to win because it wouldn't be a good look at all IMO, but it would be completely justified at the same time.

[ampersand]

If she wins AOTY again, I feel like it wouldn’t really be because the Recording Academy wants to honour this specific album—it’d be because of the unprecedented success of the tour and all her releases overall (including the re-recordings and “Cruel Summer”). That is not necessarily a bad thing, but I can’t see her winning the most AOTY trophies of any artist ever going over well with some people.

[taylor]

Those people, in my humble opinion, can stay pressed. Taylor Swift is the best songwriter of the past generation, and for a MULTITUDE of reasons, she’s deserving of having that historic AOTY distinction. Her albums tell a story, down to the details. They transport people to a specific moment in time, a specific situation, and each song is like a movie in a sense. And the stories are so universal and relatable, that it makes perfect sense that she’s as lauded as she is. She makes people feel seen and heard, and related to (I’ve said that verbatim just a few pages ago in this very thread I believe). Each one of her albums have become the soundtrack to each chapter of many people’s lives.

[Joe1240]

I could see Taylor getting an AOTY win for Midnights alone just for the resurgence she had in her career alone. It is unprecedented what Taylor has done in the recent year with the Midnights release. We have seen small resurgence in the past for example Kelly Clarkson All I Ever Wanted Era but nothing close to this and she deserves it.

[suburbandreams]

Aug 24, 2023 18:44:23 GMT -5 ampersand said:

If she wins AOTY again, I feel like it wouldn’t really be because the Recording Academy wants to honour this specific album—it’d be because of the unprecedented success of the tour and all her releases overall (including the re-recordings and “Cruel Summer”). That is not necessarily a bad thing, but I can’t see her winning the most AOTY trophies of any artist ever going over well with some people.

I don't think Midnights is different enough from her past albums to win another AOTY even with her unprecedented song. I don't think she has an appealing enough narrative for AOTY. I hope the success instead helps her finally win SOTY for Anti hero.


But AOTY doesn't look it will have many strong competitors this year while SOTY and ROTY has several. I don't think the general field Grammy voters will share the love with SZA due to their biases against long  writers lists and r&b.  Olivia likely needs an multi week #1 smash to be competive in AOTY . Foo Fighters have a narrative but not much commercial success.   

[ampersand]

Aug 24, 2023 19:27:00 GMT -5 taylor said:

Those people, in my humble opinion, can stay pressed. Taylor Swift is the best songwriter of the past generation, and for a MULTITUDE of reasons, she’s deserving of having that historic AOTY distinction. Her albums tell a story, down to the details. They transport people to a specific moment in time, a specific situation, and each song is like a movie in a sense. And the stories are so universal and relatable, that it makes perfect sense that she’s as lauded as she is. She makes people feel seen and heard, and related to (I’ve said that verbatim just a few pages ago in this very thread I believe). Each one of her albums have become the soundtrack to each chapter of many people’s lives.

I agree she would be deserving, but we have to admit that Taylor is very concerned with public perception. In all honesty, I don't even think she is that interested in winning AOTY a fourth time. It's been clear since the Lover era that SOTY is the one she's after. She's made many mentions about having never won that award before, and she always positions herself as a songwriter first. I don't know if "Anti-Hero" is the song that will get that trophy, though. I wouldn't even rank it among her top songs. I'd like to be proven wrong, but she couldn't even win with ATW10, which many consider her magnum opus. Of course, there may have been some members who didn't want to vote for her there for what was essentially a new version of an old song. It will be interesting to see what she submits for consideration and how she campaigns.

[musiclife]

She deserves AOTY.

[deepston]

Aug 24, 2023 18:25:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

I wonder what her chances are at AOTY with how big her year continues to get. She doesn't need to win because it wouldn't be a good look at all IMO, but it would be completely justified at the same time.

Pretty sure she will not win AOTY. Midnights is a good album but it is not worthy of it, especially when she has won the award 3 times now and there are still plenty of talent out there left unrecognised.

[theflying]

Midnights is a great album but not worthy of a fourth Album of the Year.

She’ll get a ton of nominations and maybe even a win or two, and that’s still a super prestigious thing.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Aug 25, 2023 10:52:50 GMT -5 deepston said:

Midnights is a good album but it is not worthy of it,

If in some hypothetical world the award was actually based on quality alone I'd agree, but we all know that's not the case (which is the only reason I'd ever say the album would be justified in winning to begin with).

It wouldn't be a good look, as I said before, because of reasons many have stated. Especially when you have artists like SZA with a quality album and her first huge breakout; a 4th win seems absolutely selfish/wrong. It will definitely snag a nom regardless. I was just interested in this discussion given her success this year just keeps ballooning.

I am crossing fingers for this year being her win (via some miracle) for one of the big song categories. "All Too Well" was robbed.

[Deleted]

I want her to win Song and/or Record of the Year more than album.

[Marooned@Midnight]

I think midnights absolutely deserves album of the year and I think anyone who thinks it obviously won’t receive it is missing the bigger picture of exactly how huge of a year Taylor has had. I don’t think we can apply previous standards to what may or may not happen. A fourth win in this category would just be a footnote…she’s had a career defining year in a career full of career defining years.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Aug 25, 2023 17:46:06 GMT -5 Marooned@Midnight said:

I think midnights absolutely deserves album of the year and I think anyone who thinks it obviously won’t receive it is missing the bigger picture of exactly how huge of a year Taylor has had. I don’t think we can apply previous standards to what may or may not happen. A fourth win in this category would just be a footnote…she’s had a career defining year in a career full of career defining years.

If that particular award was meant to reward success, sure, but the claim is quality (lol) and even then, the AOTY award doesn’t award the top contender in either overall success or quality.

I’d prefer it went to Brandy Clark or the Foo Fighters personally. SZA tbh makes the most sense. Raye would be in the conversation in a just world.

[suburbandreams]

Aug 25, 2023 18:53:27 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Aug 25, 2023 17:46:06 GMT -5 Marooned@Midnight said:

If that particular award was meant to reward success, sure, but the claim is quality (lol) and even then, the AOTY award doesn’t award the top contender in either overall success or quality.

I’d prefer it went to Brandy Clark or the Foo Fighters personally. SZA tbh makes the most sense. Raye would be in the conversation in a just world.

Any award that's voted on by any significant amount of people isn't going to have a consistent criteria because people have their own internal criteria and preferences.

The Grammys reflect the preferences of Grammy voters aka people who create music and pay dues to be Grammy members. As an industry instead of a critic award, commercial success does have a greater influence on them.  Since Grammy voters are mostly writers, musicians and producers, they heavily value the "musicianship" of nominated artists. They want to award music that's created in a way that they relate to it and approve in and not in a way they disagree with.

So artists like Taylor, Jon Batiste, Billie Eilish, Harry Styles who have a reputation for being heavily involved in their own and create their album with a relatively small producing and writing team have a big bonus compared to artists who with much longer credit lists for writing and producing.  They rightly or wrongly perceive albums with long writers' and producers' lists to be products of writers camps, demo shopping and vanity credits. These are things that the vast majority of Grammy voters doesn't consider a real, proper way to make music.

As a result, they have a bias against certain artists, albums and genres. It's no coincidence that the only two hip hop albums to win AOTY were Miseducation where Lauryn Hill claimed to be the sole writer and producer on most tracks (was later sued by her band for pressuring them to forego their proper credits) and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below where Outkast  used a small writing and producing team after already earning a reputation for artists who could both write and produce songs themselves.  As a result, when Taylor won AOTY for 1989, voter's clear second choice wasn't Kendrick but Alamaba Shakes' Sound & Color.

It sucks but that's the nature of industry awards. They by very nature care about how a thing is created just as much as the quality of thing itself.

I agree in a just world that SZA would be the favorite but this bias will pose a barrier to SZA that is possible to overcome but difficult.  She does have a reputation as a great song writer but her album has very long credits with 29 different producers. She would need to run a large campaign that emphasizes her skills as a song writer to overcome the voter's biases. 

I think a veteran act like Brandy Clark and Foo Fighters have a great odds this year since there aren't really critically acclaimed smash albums outside of Taylor and SZA. 

Lastly, the Grammys are heavily effected by their voter's musical preferences. As of 2021,  when voters were asked to identify which genres they are most aligned with the results were the following. Pop (26%),  Jazz (19%), Rock (18%), R&B (17%), American roots music (15%), alternative (13%) and classical (12%). With 8 albums nominated, voters spilting based on genre  is really important in determining the winning album. If only one album from a popular genre is nominated, its a significant advantage in AOTY. 

Currently , it looks like the only other pop album that would be nominated for AOTY would be guts.Pop voters heavily value commercial success compared to other genres and so Olivia would likely need a multi week #1 to draw pop voters away from Taylor and Taylor has a proven record at getting voters from other genres. 

Basically, voter's fatigue is real and  midnights itself has a much weaker narrative than fearless, folklore or 1989. But Taylor has significant structural advantage for AOTY that will be hard for the current field to overcome .

[chartfreak]

I really love Maroon. Just need to put that out there.

[Marooned@Midnight]

Aug 25, 2023 22:00:20 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

I really love Maroon. Just need to put that out there.

Maroon was an early favorite and grows on me each and every day. It follows that vein of Out of the Woods, Getaway Car, and Cruel Summer, but with ATW level of heartbreaking lyrics. The song cuts me deep and it’s absolutely in my Taylor Top 5, some days my favorite.

[soulfulwings]

I wonder what TS11 will sound like and lyric wise what insight we'll get into her relationship with Joe...

[austin]

I think she is in a good spot to take home Song or Record for “Anti-Hero.” I agree she is going to get nominated (deservingly so) but not win Album of the Year, but her year has been so massive as was AH that one of those rewards makes a lot of sense since she has never taken them home.

[Grün]

I care more about her getting song or record of the year. I think Anti Hero is deserving of both.

Midnights is amazing, but it doesn't need to need to be album of the year.

[theflying]

Just because Taylor was the biggest *artist* this year doesn’t de facto mean Midnights is the Album of the Year.

[kimberly]

Midnights could very well win AOTY, I would not be surprised. We've seen anything is possible with the way votes are split these days. I'd say Midnights is pretty much on par with Harry's House going into the award season. One huge global smash, a couple other solid hits, overall good-not-great albums from former teen pop icons who branded themselves heavily as songwriters (and touring forces, to varying degrees).

"Anti-Hero" does not deserve a SOTY or ROTY win. A nomination is more than enough for it, imo. I'd be quite disappointed if her long-awaited SOTY win went for "I feel like everybody's a sexy baby" song with a TikTok chorus and a reworked version of "Only the Young" beat. Nothing interesting or artistically challenging there, really. If it's going to be rewarded to the biggest hit, I'd rather see it go to SZA or even Miley before "Anti-Hero." But who knows, Billie Eilish might even take it with her Barbie song, or it could go to a Bonnie Raitt again.

SOTY/ROTY feel pretty much up in the air this year. So they could end up going to TS anyway, and I guess I'll be happy that she finally got her recognition there. All Too Well, cardigan, Blank Space or even Lover would have been much more worthy picks, though.

[Grün]

Taylor didn't write, "Did you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruism like some kind of congressman". To get shafted again.

It is a choice to only quote the sexy baby line - which the lyric was supposed to be tongue in cheek anyway.

I love Anti Hero. I think it is a smart pop song and deserving of the win.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Am I the only one who thinks the sexy baby line is a clever statement? Either I’m misunderstanding it or everyone else is

[taylor]

Aug 29, 2023 6:53:32 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Am I the only one who thinks the sexy baby line is a clever statement? Either I’m misunderstanding it or everyone else is

No you’re not. The line “Sometimes I feel like everybody is a sexy baby/And I’m a monster on the hill” is meant to convey how she feels about her status as such a huge ass celebrity. Everyone else can walk along the streets of Hollywood or NYC or wherever else they live and the worst case scenario is paparazzi coming after them. Taylor, on the other hand, cannot even fly a plane anymore unless it’s her own; forget leaving the house by herself. She’s required to have a bodyguard with her at all times because not only do the paps run after her, but so do hordes of fans who have nothing better to do with their lives than run to Electric Lady or to her front door waiting hours upon hours for her to emerge and run to her car in less than five seconds. And then those people run after the car. And then, of course, you have her history with countless stalkers, one of which literally broke into her home and posted a selfie sleeping in her bed. (If I’m not mistaken, that one did happen…God forbid what would’ve happened if she were home).

”sexy baby” was a tongue-in-cheek way to describe the celebrities who still get to have some sort of normalcy in their lives (the ones that are literally just people who happen to have the jobs they have, or the ones who are big names BUT aren’t quite so big that they need private jets and personal bodyguards, etc.) Not that they don’t likely have their own issues with stalkers and the like from time to time, but it’s not as often as with Taylor.

[Deleted]

I agree with the above poster. I hated the sexy baby line at first, then I actually thought about it.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Aug 29, 2023 6:53:32 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Am I the only one who thinks the sexy baby line is a clever statement? Either I’m misunderstanding it or everyone else is

I've always understood what the line meant and found it clever, but there will always be those who just look from a surface level and be all "a sExY bAbY whaaatt LoL sTuPiD"? She was clearly using the line to reference ageism in the industry and how female artists of today are marketed younger and younger (hence the baby, hyperbolic) and sexualized more and more while she feels inadequate at her age and because she doesn't overtly sexualize herself (hence the monster on the hill), not to mention the "hill" bit referencing the phrase "over the hill" and since she's not quite there yet she placed herself on top to insinuate where she's headed, as in toward the age where the industry would typically send her out to pasture. The song is very cleverly crafted and if people see it as some simple dumb song they clearly don't get it. All art isn't appreciated by everyone at the end of the day.

I hope she wins with it even more now. Lol

[Ling-Ling]

Taylor has quite a few songs in her catalog I would call clever, even genius. "Anti-Hero" is not one of them. It's a cute little TikTok song, not even close to being the best on Midnights and hopefully is not her ROTY/SOTY moment.