Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Feb 6, 2024 15:14:44 GMT -5
Wow at you agreeing Christina should be included here, but...I agree! I still maintain that Tracy x Luke were the biggest noteworthy thing about the Grammys this year, followed by MC X MC cute moment and Fantasia the powerhouse plus Annie Lennox doing tributes. Everything else was predictable and yawn-worthy. Also, I recognize that Jon Baptist is talented, but he is just so hokey. It's like Happy by Pharrell is his general preset. I might go back and re-watch the show though, at least for Jay-Z's speech. I was asleep during it. Meanwhile, lemme go purchase Luke Combs albums. That man can SING! I never take away talent . xtina attitude may annoy me at times and her runs are redundant and extremely extra but that lady can sing her ass off and she has a powerful strong voice. She needs to learn to tone it down much like Jennifer Hudson Heard. I've never been good at reading shade so I literally thought you hated her and though she was a bad singer. Glad that's not the case. I agree though: Christina's oversinging is always her downfall. I prefer when she sings more softly but still strong and doesn't overdo the runs and the HA! Still mad that the Grammy announcers literally ignored the fact that she won Best New Artist and relegated her to "Latin Grammy winner."
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Feb 6, 2024 17:11:36 GMT -5
Look, I'm still upset about the 2018 GRAMMYs when 'Praying' was snubbed in Best Pop Solo Performance for Ed Sheeran's Shape of You, and 'That's What I Like' (or 24kMagic, I forget) beat 1-800 for Song of the Year. That was just a gross year in general.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 6, 2024 18:12:19 GMT -5
Even Y-O-U could prolly make a great album if you had a ton of great samples on it, no? True sampling is an art. Donβt allow Bebe Rexha to let you believe just anyone can do it. Sampling is an art, 'tis true, indicative of the talent of the producer and perhaps the artist as well. It doesn't seem to be a compelling selling point though if we're talking about Grammy voters and looking at past AOTY winners.
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Feb 6, 2024 18:18:15 GMT -5
A little confused by the shock and outrage over midnights winning. It was the biggest album of the year by far, has an 85 metacritic score, and she had one of the single biggest years any artist has ever had in history. Considering that we know how the Grammy voters operate, it was the obvious pick to win.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 6, 2024 21:04:19 GMT -5
A little confused by the shock and outrage over midnights winning. Then you seem to be another poster who isn't actually reading the posts that have been made. People aren't necessarily upset by this win in particular, it's about the pattern of Black women having successful albums yet never winning AOTY. Why is it that when white women have successful album runs they get rewarded, but when Black women have them some excuse is made for why they shouldn't win or something else should? Exactly. So it seems you do understand the criticisms, or I must be missing something. Anyway I think "Made For Me" is primed for a lot of nominations next year, even if it will only win in the R&B categories.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 6, 2024 21:57:37 GMT -5
Why is it that when white women have successful album runs they get rewarded Why is it that you lump Kacey Musgraves, Adele, Billie Eilish, and Taylor Swift together? That's racist, is it not?
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 6, 2024 22:14:39 GMT -5
Let me be unequivocally clear so there is no confusion.. social media made what Jay Z was saying strictly about Beyonce. She is ONE but NOT the only black woman in the last 25 years who was snubbed.
Anyone saying no black woman made an album worthy in that time is ludacris.
Taylor isn't the issue . The issue when all her albums are winning while others who are equally and in some cases more not winning .
The inherit bias is second to the gaslighting of the subject.
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HamedM1 π
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Post by HamedM1 π on Feb 6, 2024 22:25:09 GMT -5
I mean Jaguar II and The Age of Pleasure were more worthy records in the category by underrated black female artists, Midnights sonically is arguably Taylor's least creative album and most of its sounds are retreads of sounds explored from her albums in the preceding 5 years. Her getting her now egregious 4th win in the Album of the Year category is pretty bullshit and the album is definitely in the bottom 3 picks of the nominees.
GUTS, SOS, The Record (a full length project by 3 separate frontrunning women in the alt/indie genre btw), Did You Know... and the aforementioned 2 albums from Victoria & Janelle were all picks that deserved the award more over Midnights since each album definitely explores new creative territory and sound direction for all those artists and were similarly met with critical praise. Midnights meanwhile is a Taylor album even Swifties are incredibly divided over in terms of opinion, with many considering it one her weakest projects to date so.
Also not the racism against rich white women, oh the horror.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Feb 7, 2024 0:03:14 GMT -5
As much I'm happy for Taylor Swift's Grammy award wins the year including AOTY. The Grammys has always overlooked iconic albums, how many early 00s pop artists like Christina Aguilera and Justin Timberlake released great albums in their prime and none of them got the album of the year nomination. Xtina's Stripped an album that is still remembered 20 years later no nomination for AOTY. The Grammys even gave Miley her awards when they were long overdue for her. Yes I'm a Swift fan and also like Christina Aguilera but this show hasn't meant anything in years.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Feb 7, 2024 1:10:44 GMT -5
Then you seem to be another poster who isn't actually read the posts that have been made. People aren't necessarily upset by this win in particular, it's about the pattern of Black women having successful albums yet never winning AOTY. Why is it that when white women have successful album runs they get rewarded, but when Black women have them some excuse is made for why they shouldn't win or something else should? Exactly. So it seems you do understand the criticisms, or I must be missing something. Anyway I think "Made For Me" is primed for a lot of nominations next year, even if it will only win in the R&B categories. I was referring broadly to the sentiment on the internet since the Grammys. No I did not read every page of comments, some of us havenβt been on this forum for two decades, forgive me.This has literally NOTHING to do with anything.
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 7, 2024 6:36:51 GMT -5
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Kelly's 10th Fan
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Post by Kelly's 10th Fan on Feb 7, 2024 11:59:28 GMT -5
Then you seem to be another poster who isn't actually read the posts that have been made. People aren't necessarily upset by this win in particular, it's about the pattern of Black women having successful albums yet never winning AOTY. Why is it that when white women have successful album runs they get rewarded, but when Black women have them some excuse is made for why they shouldn't win or something else should? Exactly. So it seems you do understand the criticisms, or I must be missing something. Anyway I think "Made For Me" is primed for a lot of nominations next year, even if it will only win in the R&B categories. I was referring broadly to the sentiment on the internet since the Grammys. No I did not read every page of comments, some of us havenβt been on this forum for two decades, forgive me. This forum just turned 20 years old last September. MOST of us haven't been here for two decades lmao (in fact, there are only nine posters who joined the forum in September-October 2003 and would be considered still currently active today). Anyway, I assume by your initial comment that you weren't trying to wade into the discussion about black women continually being ignored in the general field, but there are some posters who have intentionally been using 'in defense of Taylor' as an excuse to try to shut down that discussion, so your comment was misinterpreted as being one of those.
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Kelly's 10th Fan
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Post by Kelly's 10th Fan on Feb 7, 2024 12:39:13 GMT -5
My own thoughts about Midnight, and Midnight alone:
1) I did not think it was the best or even second-best choice for AOTY (for that matter, didn't think it was the best or second-best choice for pop album either) but it's not a bad choice 2) the main reasons I didn't expect Midnights to win AOTY were that a) I thought the pop albums in that category would split votes and b) I honestly felt that Taylor overshadowed her own album with her TVs and the resurgence of Cruel Summer. In such a huge year for her, Midnights honestly felt a bit like a footnote in it to me 3) her wins felt more like the voters making up for 'artist of the year' not existing more than giving her the awards based on Midnights' actual merit
It admittedly would have felt kind of weird if Taylor had won nothing after the hot 2023, but this brings me back to an opinion I have voiced in previous years' threads - the Grammys would be better off scrapping the Big 3 awards entirely. Place more emphasis on the genres so people stop looking at them as lesser awards, and add an 'artist of the year' category to go with BNA (which should be renamed to 'breakthrough artist' of the year). No award show can ever be perfect, but there's not any truly good reason we should be making apples and oranges and pears and grapes compete against each other and it's a repeated mess every year when the voters go out of their way to only vote for the apples.
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Feb 7, 2024 12:56:43 GMT -5
My own thoughts about Midnight, and Midnight alone: 1) I did not think it was the best or even second-best choice for AOTY (for that matter, didn't think it was the best or second-best choice for pop album either) but it's not a bad choice 2) the main reasons I didn't expect Midnights to win AOTY were that a) I thought the pop albums in that category would split votes and b) I honestly felt that Taylor overshadowed her own album with her TVs and the resurgence of Cruel Summer. In such a huge year for her, Midnights honestly felt a bit like a footnote in it to me 3) her wins felt more like the voters making up for 'artist of the year' not existing more than giving her the awards based on Midnights' actual merit It admittedly would have felt kind of weird if Taylor had won nothing after the hot 2023, but this brings me back to an opinion I have voiced in previous years' threads - the Grammys would be better off scrapping the Big 3 awards entirely. Place more emphasis on the genres so people stop looking at them as lesser awards, and add an 'artist of the year' category to go with BNA (which should be renamed to 'breakthrough artist' of the year). No award show can ever be perfect, but there's not any truly good reason we should be making apples and oranges and pears and grapes compete against each other and it's a repeated mess every year when the voters go out of their way to only vote for the apples. Wow, I actually agree with everything in this post. Artist of the Year would be a more fitting title considering her historic achievements have been spread across so many projects. Crazy that Midnights does sort of feel like a footnote when itβs the 2nd longest running top 10 album in history and has her biggest Hot 100 single (for now).
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 7, 2024 19:19:59 GMT -5
We've discussed the racial aspects but take that out and in general the Grammy committee is just fucked up and not right .
We live in a world where Celine Dion has 5 grammys Mariah Carey has 6 grammys Whitney Houston has 6 grammys And Beyonce has 32 grammys
The math ain't mathing on any level.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 7, 2024 19:52:53 GMT -5
We've discussed the racial aspects but take that out and in general the Grammy committee is just fucked up and not right . We live in a world where Celine Dion has 5 grammys Mariah Carey has 6 grammys Whitney Houston has 6 grammys And Beyonce has 32 grammys The math ain't mathing on any level. Agreed, and you can add Janet Jackson and Madonna to your list, as they only have 5 and 7 Grammys, respectively (and many of their wins came in the Video categories). Please also note Alicia Keys has 15 Grammys, so as nearly as many as Mariah, Celine, and Whitney combined! Having said that there was a shift somewhere in the late 1990s toward rewarding young women a lot more. I think of how Tracy Chapman, Mariah Carey, and Toni Braxton all won New Artist and a genre Vocal award, but not AOTY, ROTY, or SOTY. Then in the late mid-to-late 1990s we saw Alanis Morissette and Lauryn Hill each [deservedly] win AOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then soon after Alicia Keys won SOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then Norah Jones won AOTY and ROTY in addition to New Artist. Suddenly we were seeing young women win some of the top awards, and that has carried through to today with Amy Winehoue and Billie Eilish able to win New Artist and major awards. I can't help but wonder if that had happened a few years earlier if Mariah could have won AOTY or SOTY in addition to New Artist. The mid-1990s also brought about the genre Album categories, whereas in the 1980s and first part of the 1990s those didn't exist. Then early 200s brought the Rap/Sung Collaboration category, but of course that came after Mariah and Janet had hits with that style of collaboration. It's very possible (even likely?) some of the women mentioned would have more Grammys if there were as many categories in the 1980s and early 1990s are there are now. Regardless it is all a mess. I mean Diana Ross has 0 Grammys. Queen has 0 Grammys. I'd love for someone to write a book that really explores the music industry filtered through the Grammys. I'm sure there are a ton of interesting stories that would highlight all kinds of shenanigans. :ETA: Alanis lost New Artist but won AOTY as a new (to the Grammys) artist. Sheryl Crow won New Artist and also ROTY. The Brazilian Guy π§π·
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Feb 7, 2024 20:06:04 GMT -5
BeyoncΓ© does have a major advantage β having been part of one of the most successful music groups in history, so a few are from her DC years. Also, a good number of her wins are for major collaborations; Jay Z, Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross, Megan The Stallion.
Not discrediting her wins, not in the slightest, but those are some very big names on their own & she had the benefit of basically debuting twice, arguably three times with Lemonade lmao.
Whitney, Mariah, and Celineβ¦ among many others in the shockingly low Grammy count category were competitive at overlapping times, and generally speaking the late 80s-00s were peak years for the music industry. They were all competing for Grammys when music was at its best and most competitive. Not here to excuse the blatant snubs weβve seen over the years, but back then those categories were stacked with megahits that everyone knew, and it was also a time when women hardly won anything outside of Best New Artist. Not to mention there was far less awards to win back thenβ¦ Anyway, itβs clear that thereβs discrepancy when it comes to the Grammys, itβs nothing new though, and itβs the same political bullshit that shows up in every entertainment industry-determined awards show. Iβll forever be baffled by the lack of love for Mariah, above all, because in every way sheβs the perfect Grammy-darlingβ¦ and she was the OG cross-genre pop collaboratorβ¦ but it is what it is.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 7, 2024 20:30:48 GMT -5
Having said that there was a shift somewhere in the late 1990s toward rewarding young women a lot more. I think of how Tracy Chapman, Mariah Carey, and Toni Braxton all won New Artist and a genre Vocal award, but not AOTY, ROTY, or SOTY. Then in the late mid-to-late 1990s we saw Alanis Morissette and Lauryn Hill each [deservedly] win AOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then soon after Alicia Keys won SOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then Norah Jones won AOTY and ROTY in addition to New Artist. Suddenly we were seeing young women win some of the top awards, and that has carried through to today with Amy Winehouse and Billie Eilish able to win New Artist and major awards. I can't help but wonder if that had happened a few years earlier if Mariah could have won AOTY or SOTY in addition to New Artist. Pre-shift is also when we consistently saw veterans winning AOTY. There was a stretch there where industry veterans Lionel Richie, Phil Collins, Paul Simon, Bonnie Raitt, Quincy Jones, Natalie Cole, Eric Clapton, and Tony Bennett won AOTY across 11 years. The last AOTY win that feels similar to that is Beck, and more so it happens a lot fewer and far between now. Iβll forever be baffled by the lack of love for Mariah, above all, because in every way sheβs the perfect Grammy-darlingβ¦ and she was the OG cross-genre pop collaboratorβ¦ but it is what it is. I think Mariah specifically just had bad luck in a lot of ways. Like I mentioned in my previous reply, she was just a bit too early in terms of the Grammys giving big awards to New Artist. She really could/should have won a big award for her debut era. Pop Album also didn't exist in the early 1990s, or she might have won it. I think for the rest of the 1990s she was then punished for being married to Tommy; industry people didn't take her seriously as an artist even though she was involved in writing and producing her music (it's also odd because they gave Whitney and Celine big awards even though they weren't really writing and producing). That was also when white men dominated music journalism and hated on pop. Then as I also said above, when she was getting hits with "Breakdown" and "Heartbreaker" it was before Rap/Sung Collaboration existed. Then when it was finally introduced, it was when she was at her low point. The main thing that confuses me is Mariah not getting any major awards for TEOM. She had one of the biggest comebacks of all-time, and people couldn't attribute her success to Tommy at that point. We'd seen Tina Turner and Santana win major Grammys for their comebacks. It just doesn't make any sense than Mariah didn't win even one of the top awards. They definitely don't embrace her because since then she can't even manage to get nods for R&B Album and such even though Janet, Toni, Alicia, etc have gotten in for low key and even flop releases.
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 7, 2024 20:31:45 GMT -5
I wonder if this really happened
I know Katy Perry and Lady Gaga would be all over on stage like Adele was or Miley was to Mariah
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Post by The Brazilian Guy π§π· on Feb 7, 2024 20:44:12 GMT -5
We've discussed the racial aspects but take that out and in general the Grammy committee is just fucked up and not right . We live in a world where Celine Dion has 5 grammys Mariah Carey has 6 grammys Whitney Houston has 6 grammys And Beyonce has 32 grammys The math ain't mathing on any level. Having said that there was a shift somewhere in the late 1990s toward rewarding young women a lot more. I think of how Tracy Chapman, Mariah Carey, and Toni Braxton all won New Artist and a genre Vocal award, but not AOTY, ROTY, or SOTY. Then in the late mid-to-late 1990s we saw Alanis Morissette and Lauryn Hill each [deservedly] win AOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then soon after Alicia Keys won SOTY in addition to New Artist and some genre awards. Then Norah Jones won AOTY and ROTY in addition to New Artist. Suddenly we were seeing young women win some of the top awards, and that has carried through to today with Amy Winehoue and Billie Eilish able to win New Artist and major awards. I can't help but wonder if that had happened a few years earlier if Mariah could have won AOTY or SOTY in addition to New Artist. Unfortunately, Alanis [undeservedly] lost Best New Artist the year she won Album of the Year
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woods
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Post by woods on Feb 7, 2024 22:44:34 GMT -5
My own thoughts about Midnight, and Midnight alone: 1) I did not think it was the best or even second-best choice for AOTY (for that matter, didn't think it was the best or second-best choice for pop album either) but it's not a bad choice 2) the main reasons I didn't expect Midnights to win AOTY were that a) I thought the pop albums in that category would split votes and b) I honestly felt that Taylor overshadowed her own album with her TVs and the resurgence of Cruel Summer. In such a huge year for her, Midnights honestly felt a bit like a footnote in it to me 3) her wins felt more like the voters making up for 'artist of the year' not existing more than giving her the awards based on Midnights' actual merit It admittedly would have felt kind of weird if Taylor had won nothing after the hot 2023, but this brings me back to an opinion I have voiced in previous years' threads - the Grammys would be better off scrapping the Big 3 awards entirely. Place more emphasis on the genres so people stop looking at them as lesser awards, and add an 'artist of the year' category to go with BNA (which should be renamed to 'breakthrough artist' of the year). No award show can ever be perfect, but there's not any truly good reason we should be making apples and oranges and pears and grapes compete against each other and it's a repeated mess every year when the voters go out of their way to only vote for the apples. I think the Grammy voters to some extent made sure to reflect Taylor's monumental year in the AOTY category. Had there been an Artist of the Year category she would have rightfully taken it easily this year. SOS would also make perfect sense as an AOTY winner but due to the aforementioned it was not as possible this year. The biggest snub in the last couple years though was Renaissance. It should have been a slam-dunk win with its acclaim, uniqueness and not strong enough competition. But the Grammy voters couldn't handle it.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Feb 8, 2024 0:02:34 GMT -5
We've discussed the racial aspects but take that out and in general the Grammy committee is just fucked up and not right . We live in a world where Celine Dion has 5 grammys Mariah Carey has 6 grammys Whitney Houston has 6 grammys And Beyonce has 32 grammys The math ain't mathing on any level. Christina Aguilera has 5 Grammys not counting the Latin Grammy wins. Also famous pop albums like Carly Rae Jepsenβs Emotion have 0 nominations and The Weekndβs After Hours one of the biggest albums ever again 0. Your album can be loved by critics and still miss nominations.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 8, 2024 7:16:33 GMT -5
We've discussed the racial aspects but take that out and in general the Grammy committee is just fucked up and not right . We live in a world where Celine Dion has 5 grammys Mariah Carey has 6 grammys Whitney Houston has 6 grammys And Beyonce has 32 grammys The math ain't mathing on any level. Christina Aguilera has 5 Grammys not counting the Latin Grammy wins. Yeah it's ridiculous she has the same amount as Mariah and Celine and just 1 less than Whitney.
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Post by οΌ³ο½ο½ο½ο½ο½ο½π€ο½ο½ on Feb 8, 2024 8:02:47 GMT -5
I wonder if this really happened Yeah, I can believe this, but still don't think it was intentional on Taylor's part.
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Kelly's 10th Fan
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Post by Kelly's 10th Fan on Feb 8, 2024 9:35:04 GMT -5
Taylor is still very much like a kid getting the biggest sugar rush when she wins awards she wasn't expecting to win, but at the same time she (and her team) are also hyper-aware of what's being said about her at all times and it's pretty obvious sometimes when they rush to 'correct' something. It's a combo that simply isn't going to sit well with some people but will be no big deal to others who can relate and also wish they had a team who could immediately catch and fix all their mistakes for them.
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 8, 2024 14:20:32 GMT -5
Love this
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2024 18:34:25 GMT -5
I wonder if this really happened Yeah, I can believe this, but still don't think it was intentional on Taylor's part. The way she got Celine to post their photo on her Tiktok. Taylor's power is scary
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 8, 2024 20:29:55 GMT -5
Most people aren't buying it. I'm glad her team think that most people are that stupid.
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ππππ
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Post by ππππ on Feb 8, 2024 20:34:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I can believe this, but still don't think it was intentional on Taylor's part. The way she got Celine to post their photo on her Tiktok. Taylor's power is scary The C in Celine stands for classy . I dont think Celine cares or needed validation from Taylor . I think it's just good manners to show a Queen her flowers on stage. Nobody is saying it's on purpose or the biggest thing in the world π but it's a bad look
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Feb 8, 2024 20:44:50 GMT -5
Most people aren't buying it. I'm glad her team think that most people are that stupid. I don't think this really has much traction. It was a gaffe - and honestly, quite impressive that something as trivial as this is considered, "bad press," for Taylor. For the past year she has been the most famous person in the world with people hoping for a chance to tear her down. If this is her worst moment in the past year, that's damn impressive. Note: I was disappointed with her encounter with Celine. But the fact that she corrected it shortly after (whether it was her team telling her to or she did it on her on doesn't matter to me) shows she knew she messed up and wanted to fix it. People make mistakes like this all the time. She made it better. I just don't see it being a big deal.
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