Billboard Hot 100: 11/18/2023

[groovetheory]

Nov 11, 2023 12:35:06 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Yeah, why does it matter if a song charts for one week and is off again. The chart measures that week, not the future, not the legacy, not long term and not 2 months ago. Why are people trying to find things from the charts that the charts aren’t even intended to represent. I swear stan twitter got people misunderstanding how charts even work.

The charts have changed dramatically so i think it is okay to question what is happening. If we are questioning holiday songs charting and how it doesn't feel organic for some then we should talk about album bombs too in that same aspect. That's what i was going for.

[sheardbeard]

Nov 11, 2023 13:10:13 GMT -5 groovetheory said:

Nov 11, 2023 12:35:06 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Yeah, why does it matter if a song charts for one week and is off again. The chart measures that week, not the future, not the legacy, not long term and not 2 months ago. Why are people trying to find things from the charts that the charts aren’t even intended to represent. I swear stan twitter got people misunderstanding how charts even work.

The charts have changed dramatically so i think it is okay to question what is happening. If we are questioning holiday songs charting and how it doesn't feel organic for some then we should talk about album bombs too in that same aspect. That's what i was going for.

I think the streaming era has dictated the reason the charts have changed dramatically. The way music is consumed nowadays necessitates changes in chart methodology and whether album bombs and holiday songs should be “allowed” now when they weren’t just a few years ago. Heck, Billboard used to have a jukebox chart. Technology changes, and the charts need to adjust to reflect those changes.

[jenglisbe]

We of course could have had album bombs in previous decades if we'd been able to measure what people were actually listening to on CD, cassette, etc. I think the data is just finally catching up to listener habits, though streaming also made access to songs easier so that has helped as well; we can all so easily switch from one song/artist to another.

Btw it's quite comical seeing Taylor Swift fans of all people complaining about "AIWFCIY" being played to death and clogging up the charts lmao. Anyway my only real complaint about holiday songs taking over the charts is that now November and especially December feel so dead for new music.

[theycallmedualian]

Nov 10, 2023 18:41:26 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Nov 10, 2023 15:33:32 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

So do y'all want the chart to represent what people are listening to or do you want it to be a one-shot deal where a song charts, rises, peaks, falls and is gone forever because it's more appealing as a chart watcher even though it’s not accurate or correct? I'm continually amazed at how many of you seem to miss the point entirely.

I'm pretty sure everyone understands Christmas music is popular. However, comparing Christmas music's popularity to non-Christmas music is a disjointed comparison. That is the point being made.

As it stands, AIWFCIY is going to spend like 30+ weeks #1 this decade and finish as the #1 Song of the Decade at the current pace not expecting any rule changes.

However it's a disjointed (and borderline useless) comparison to non-Holiday songs. Holiday songs are specifically meant to be revisited for 10 years straight, a non-Holiday song pretty much is no circumstance is going to experience resurgences to revisit the top 20, top 10, #1, etc for 10 years straight. They are not meant to be tied to a recurring occasion, so there is not going to be a recurring occasion of peak popularity every single year.

Pointing out objectively that Holiday music has its own lifespan/consumption pattern that should probably be recognized within its own category doesn't mean you simply 'want the charts to be more appealing'. It means you are simply pointing out a flaw in comparing it to non-Holiday music.


In 100 years when All I Want for Christmas Is You has accumulated more charting/sales/etc than Mariah's 18 other #1 hits combined should all her other hits be regarded as flubs that couldn't live up to that song retrospectively? Or should we simply realize... comparing a Holiday song to non-Holiday songs popularity veers into a relatively pointless conversation?

The easiest thing to do is enable a simple rule where if a song reenters the chart above 25th place or re-reaches its previous peak 5 years in a row at the same timeframe, then that song will be classified as “holiday/seasonal” & thereby enters into a separate seasonal chart instead, or at the very least, make a “holiday” and “ excluding holiday” variant of the chart like a global 200/global 200 ex. US.


Obviously the only songs that this will affect are Christmas songs or even specifically AIWFC, but surely that is preferable to it outdoing all the normal songs which will only have one life span.

[KeepDeanWeird]

Nov 11, 2023 17:31:12 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

We of course could have had album bombs in previous decades if we'd been able to measure what people were actually listening to on CD, cassette, etc. I think the data is just finally catching up to listener habits, though streaming also made access to songs easier so that has helped as well; we can all so easily switch from one song/artist to another.

Btw it's quite comical seeing Taylor Swift fans of all people complaining about "AIWFCIY" being played to death and clogging up the charts lmao. Anyway my only real complaint about holiday songs taking over the charts is that now November and especially December feel so dead for new music.

The Wall Street Journal and NYT both had articles around 2018/19 where record company executives discussed how the industry had moved to actively promoting Xmas music during Nov/Dec instead of launching new music.

Part of that is the direct result of the death of CDs as gifts once iTunes and, then, streaming took hold. The 4th Quarter was always the time major acts released new music mostly to take advantage of gift giving and when the labels locked in profits. Streaming then proved direct proof that listeners were choosing to listen to Xmas music in significant ways - definitely more than the industry thought.

The labels shifted because Xmas music is incredibly profitable for obvious reasons, but it's also successful on every metric: streaming, radio, album sales and single sales.

As for the charts, they are for the labels. Since the labels are barely releasing or promoting *new* music, it's not like those 5 chart weeks are holding down major new singles.

Are five weeks of Xmas *bombs* any different that back-to-back-to-back album bombs - we just had 3 in row.

[Soulsista]

Billboard Top 10 from 65, 60, 55, 50, and 45 years ago:

November 10, 1958 (For the week ending November 15)

01 02 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty (1st of 2 weeks at #1)
02 04 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio
03 01 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards
04 03 Topsy II - Cozy Cole
05 11 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears
06 06 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper
07 07 Tea For Two Cha Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra w/Warren Covington
08 08 The End - Earl Grant
09 05 Rock-In Robin - Bobby Day
10 13 I Got a Feeling - Ricky Nelson

18 65 I Got Stung - Elvis Presley
19 54 Beep Beep - The Playmates


November 16, 1963

01 02 Deep Purple - Nino Tempo & April Stevens (1st and only week at #1)
02 01 Sugar Shack - Jimmy Gilmer & The Fireballs
03 03 Washington Square - The Village Stompers
04 06 I'm Leaving It Up To You - Dale & Grace
05 04 It's All Right - The Impressions
06 07 Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabarajas
07 11 She's a Fool - Lesley Gore
08 09 Bossa Nova Baby - Elvis Presley
09 14 Everybody - Tommy Roe
10 15 500 Miles Away From Home - Bobby Bare

19 64 Dominique - The Singing Nun


November 16, 1968

01 01 Hey Jude - The Beatles (8th of 9 weeks at #1)
02 02 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin
03 03 Love Child - Diana Ross & The Supremes
04 07 Magic Carpet Ride - Steppenwolf
05 05 Hold Me Tight - Johnny Nash
06 06 White Room - Cream
07 04 Little Green Apples - O.C. Smith
08 21 Who's Making Love - Johnnie Taylor
09 18 Abraham, Martin And John - Dion
10 08 Elenore - The Turtles

14 35 For Once In My Life - Stevie Wonder
23 67 Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell


November 17, 1973

01 01 Keep On Truckin' (Part 1) - Eddie Kendricks (2nd and final week at #1)
02 02 Midnight Train To Georgia - Gladys Knight & The Pips
03 04 Heartbeat - It's a Lovebeat - The DeFranco Family feat. Tony DeFranco
04 06 Photograph - Ringo Starr
05 07 Space Race - Billy Preston
06 05 Paper Roses - Marie Osmond
07 10 Top Of The World - The Carpenters
08 03 Angie - The Rolling Stones
09 12 Just You 'N' Me - Chicago
10 11 I Got a Name - Jim Croce


November 18, 1978

01 01 MacArthur Park - Donna Summer (2nd of 3 weeks at #1)
02 03 Double Vision - Foreigner
03 04 How Much I Feel - Ambrosia
04 02 You Needed Me - Anne Murray
05 16 You Don't Bring Me Flowers - Barbra Streisand & Neil Diamond
06 05 Hot Child In The City - Nick Gilder
07 06 Kiss You All Over - Exile
08 10 I Just Wanna Stop - Gino Vannelli
09 07 Whenever I Call You "Friend" - Kenny Loggins (w/Stevie Nicks)
10 11 You've Never Done It Like That - The Captain & Tennille

19 39 My Life - Billy Joel

[Soulsista]

Billboard Top 10 from 40, 35, 30, 25, and 20 years ago:

November 19, 1983

01 01 All Night Long (All Night) - Lionel Richie (2nd of 4 weeks at #1)
02 04 Say Say Say - Paul McCartney & Michael Jackson
03 03 Uptown Girl - Billy Joel
04 02 Islands In The Stream - Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton
05 07 Cum On Feel The Noize - Quiet Riot
06 05 Total Eclipse Of The Heart - Bonnie Tyler
07 13 Love Is a Battlefield - Pat Benatar
08 06 One Thing Leads To Another - The Fixx
09 10 Suddenly Last Summer - The Motels
10 17 Say It Isn't So - Daryl Hall & John Oates


November 19, 1988

01 04 Bad Medicine - Bon Jovi (1st of 2 weeks at #1)
02 01 Wild, Wild West - The Escape Club
03 03 The Loco-Motion - Kylie Minogue
04 06 Desire - U2
05 02 Kokomo - The Beach Boys
06 08 Baby, I Love Your Way/Freebird (Medley) - Will To Power
07 09 Kissing a Fool - George Michael
08 11 How Can I Fall? - Breathe
09 12 Look Away - Chicago
10 05 One Moment In Time - Whitney Houston


November 20, 1993

01 01 I'd Do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That) - Meat Loaf (3rd of 5 weeks at #1)
02 03 Again - Janet Jackson
03 02 All That She Wants - Ace Of Base
04 05 Gangsta Lean - DRS
05 04 Just Kickin' It - Xscape
06 07 Shoop - Salt-N-Pepa
07 24 Please Forgive Me - Bryan Adams
08 12 Hero - Mariah Carey
09 08 Hey Mr. D.J. - Zhané
10 06 Dreamlover - Mariah Carey


November 21, 1998

01 01 Doo Wop (That Thing) - Lauryn Hill (2nd and final week at #1)
02 02 Lately - Divine
03 05 Because Of You - 98 Degrees
04 03 The First Night - Monica
05 08 Nobody's Supposed To Be Here - Deborah Cox
06 04 One Week - Barenaked Ladies
07 06 How Deep Is Your Love - Dru Hill feat. Redman
08 07 Crush - Jennifer Paige
09 09 This Kiss - Faith Hill
10 10 I'll Be - Edwin McCain

17 NE ...Baby One More Time - Britney Spears


November 15, 2003

01 01 Baby Boy - Beyoncé feat. Sean Paul (7th of 9 weeks at #1)
02 02 Stand Up - Ludacris feat. Shawnna
03 03 Holidae In - Chingy feat. Ludacris & Snoop Dogg
04 06 Damn! - YoungBloodZ feat. Lil Jon
05 05 Here Without You - 3 Doors Down
06 04 Get Low - Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz feat. Ying Yang Twins
07 10 The Way You Move - Outkast feat. Sleepy Brown
08 07 Rain On Me - Ashanti
09 09 Why Don't You And I - Santana feat. Alex Band or Chad Kroeger
10 14 Walked Outta Heaven - Jagged Edge

[Soulsista]

Billboard Top 10 Flashback:

November 15, 2008

01 02 Live Your Life - T.I. feat. Rihanna (2nd of 6 weeks at #1)
02 01 Whatever You Like - T.I.
03 04 So What - P!nk
04 06 Hot N Cold - Katy Perry
05 03 If I Were a Boy - Beyonce
06 05 Womanizer - Britney Spears
07 07 Let It Rock - Kevin Rudolf feat. Lil Wayne
08 08 Miss Independent - Ne-Yo
09 14 Right Now (Na Na Na) - Akon
10 10 I'm Yours - Jason Mraz

11 NE You're Not Sorry - Taylor Swift


November 16, 2013

01 01 Royals - Lorde (6th of 9 weeks at #1)
02 03 Wrecking Ball - Miley Cyrus
03 NE The Monster - Eminem feat. Rihanna
04 02 Roar - Katy Perry
05 04 Wake Me Up! - Avicii
06 NE Story Of My Life - One Direction
07 05 Hold On, We're Going Home - Drake feat. Majid Jordan
08 09 Demons - Imagine Dragons
09 08 Counting Stars - OneRepublic
10 07 Applause - Lady Gaga

16 67 Survival - Eminem


November 17, 2018

01 NE thank u, next - Ariana Grande (1st of 7 weeks at #1)
02 01 Girls Like You - Maroon 5 feat. Cardi B
03 02 SICKO MODE - Travis Scott
04 03 Happier - Marshmello & Bastille
05 04 Lucid Dreams - Juice WRLD
06 09 Without Me - Halsey
07 05 Better Now - Post Malone
08 06 ZEZE - Kodak Black feat. Travis Scott & Offset
09 10 Mo Bamba - Sheck Wes
10 08 Drip Too Hard - Lil Baby & Gunna


November 19, 2022

01 01 Anti-Hero - Taylor Swift (3rd of 8 weeks at #1)
02 NE Rich Flex - Drake & 21 Savage
03 NE Major Distribution - Drake & 21 Savage
04 NE On BS - Drake & 21 Savage
05 NE Spin Bout U - Drake & 21 Savage
06 NE Pussy & Millions - Drake & 21 Savage feat. Travis Scott
07 NE Privileged Rappers - Drake & 21 Savage
08 NE Circo Loco - Drake & 21 Savage
09 NE BackOutsideBoyz - Drake & 21 Savage
10 03 Unholy - Sam Smith & Kim Petras

11 NE Hours In Silence - Drake & 21 Savage
12 NE Broke Boys - Drake & 21 Savage
14 NE Treacherous Twins - Drake & 21 Savage
15 NE Middle Of The Ocean - Drake
16 NE Jumbotron Shit Poppin - Drake
18 NE More M's - Drake & 21 Savage
19 NE I Guess It's Fuck Me - Drake
27 NE 3AM On Glenwood - 21 Savage

[iHype.]

Nov 12, 2023 12:04:31 GMT -5 Soulsista said:

01 01 Baby Boy - Beyoncé feat. Sean Paul (7th of 9 weeks at #1)
02 02 Stand Up - Ludacris feat. Shawnna
03 03 Holidae In - Chingy feat. Ludacris & Snoop Dogg
04 06 Damn! - YoungBloodZ feat. Lil Jon
05 05 Here Without You - 3 Doors Down
06 04 Get Low - Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz feat. Ying Yang Twins
07 10 The Way You Move - Outkast feat. Sleepy Brown
08 07 Rain On Me - Ashanti
09 09 Why Don't You And I - Santana feat. Alex Band or Chad Kroeger
10 14 Walked Outta Heaven - Jagged Edge

Nov 12, 2023 12:22:19 GMT -5 Soulsista said:

November 16, 2013

01 01 Royals - Lorde (6th of 9 weeks at #1)
02 03 Wrecking Ball - Miley Cyrus
03 NE The Monster - Eminem feat. Rihanna
04 02 Roar - Katy Perry
05 04 Wake Me Up! - Avicii
06 NE Story Of My Life - One Direction
07 05 Hold On, We're Going Home - Drake feat. Majid Jordan
08 09 Demons - Imagine Dragons
09 08 Counting Stars - OneRepublic
10 07 Applause - Lady Gaga

The difference between 2003 and 2013 top 10s are night and day.

[HolidayGuy]

So, the streams for "White Christmas" and "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" are being combined? I know something similar happened with WC and, I think, "A Holly Jolly Christmas" last year. Will Spotify rectify this?

Also- how does this happen? And is it just that we don't see the correct numbers, and the actual/proper streams are reported correctly for the Billboard charts?

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

[awkwardowl]

Nov 12, 2023 15:01:54 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

So, the streams for "White Christmas" and "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" are being combined? I know something similar happened with WC and, I think, "A Holly Jolly Christmas" last year. Will Spotify rectify this?

Also- how does this happen? And is it just that we don't see the correct numbers, and the actual/proper streams are reported correctly for the Billboard charts?

Spotify have strange bug or stream manipulation with this. These two songs + Christmas Child by Burl Ives, Christmas Island by Ella Fitzgerald + IBTLLC by John Scott Trotter (and maybe some other songs) have the same streams count and it's even bigger than Wham's Last Christmas by 170M.
When Bieber has bad guy in his Spotify page as top-5 track I can understand it, even if it looks weird because his version is much less popular vs original, but in the case of Xmas songs, its totally bizzare and misleading.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Nov 11, 2023 17:31:12 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Btw it's quite comical seeing Taylor Swift fans of all people complaining about "AIWFCIY" being played to death and clogging up the charts lmao.

First off let's be clear that some of these "Taylor fans" are fans of other artists too (including Mariah). I'd be bored with Taylor (or ANY artist for that matter) heavily promoting and "clogging" up charts with the same song year after year after year after year after year after year. It has literally *nothing* to do with Mariah personally, just the monotony of knowing exactly what to expect every year and having to endure being bombarded with the same songs you literally can't escape that have long since been played to death. Say what you will about Taylor being played to death and "clogging up charts" but at least it's with different and new material every time (with the recent exception of "Cruel Summer") so that little comparison of yours is reaching IMO.

Now if Taylor starts pimping out "Cruel Summer" during the summer months every year from here on out and it manages to climb back to the top again and again I'd be tired as hell of it too.

All that aside, I must say what I always find super comical is to see wellllll grown adults playing a game of tit for tat (artist edition) because someone dare have a less than glowing opinion related to their fav. It's like it's THEIR record resurging every year that I'd said I was bored of. lol

[areyoureadytojump]

[badrobot]

Very impressed at The Beatles. Would've never guessed it would even make the top 20, let alone top 10.

[renaboss]

So, so happy the Beatles defied all predictions - they deserve to be in the top 10! Also pretty stoked about them being #1 in the UK.

Anyone know if the song is being pushed to radio to ensure its longevity? I would hate for this to be a short-lived comeback.

[Gary]

Beatles chart hits after 1970


Got To Get You Into My Life, The Beatles 7
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, The Beatles 49
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band/ With A Little Help From My Friends, The Beatles 71
The Beatles' Movie Medley, The Beatles 12
Twist And Shout, The Beatles 23
Baby It's You, The Beatles 67
Free As A Bird, The Beatles 6
Real Love, The Beatles 11
Now And Then< The Beatles 7

[Groovy]

When was their last top 10, sometime in the 70s, right?

[Ling-Ling]

Nov 13, 2023 14:29:45 GMT -5 Groovy said:

When was their last top 10, sometime in the 70s, right?

"Free As A Bird" went top 10 in 95.

[Gary]

Note: Twist and Shout was an 80s reissue that got to #23 in the second chart run, #2 initially

Top 10s since 1970

Got To Get You Into My Life
Free As A Bird
Now And Then 

[Ernesto]

I am quite happy about The Beatles hitting No.7 with "Now and Then" on the Hot100. I was afraid it could peak outside the Top Ten like "Real Love" did in 1996.

[fridayteenage]

Nov 13, 2023 14:19:27 GMT -5 renaboss said:

So, so happy the Beatles defied all predictions - they deserve to be in the top 10! Also pretty stoked about them being #1 in the UK.

Anyone know if the song is being pushed to radio to ensure its longevity? I would hate for this to be a short-lived comeback.

I mean ..it's not like we can expect them to perform and tour together

[jdanton2]

Nov 13, 2023 14:26:52 GMT -5 Gary said:

Beatles chart hits after 1970


Got To Get You Into My Life, The Beatles 7
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, The Beatles 49
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band/ With A Little Help From My Friends, The Beatles 71
The Beatles' Movie Medley, The Beatles 12
Twist And Shout, The Beatles 23
Baby It's You, The Beatles 67
Free As A Bird, The Beatles 6
Real Love, The Beatles 11
Now And Then< The Beatles 7

Got To Get You Into My Life was covered by Earth, Wind & Fire for the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band movie and reached #9 two years after The Beatles went top 10 with it.

[85la]

I'm a huge Beatles fan too, and though I'm not crazy about the song, it is nice to see them get another top 10. Not trying to take too much away from this already impressive accomplishment, but by my calculations, if most of the points it had the Thursday it was released were to be combined with its first week and it were released on a Friday instead, it could've easily been top 3 or 4. This means it could've been competitive and possibly within reach of #1, so I still don't know why and can't see any advantages there were to them releasing on a Thursday.

[Gary]

Doubt they care about chart points and aligning with the Billboard chart week

[badrobot]

I'm wondering if labels are starting to see some benefits to not releasing on a Friday -- you potentially get a bit more online buzz when your song release is not competing for attention with a lot of other songs being released the same day, which may be worth it if a label cares less about a high chart debut.

[joshtheking]

Nov 13, 2023 15:33:00 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

Nov 13, 2023 14:19:27 GMT -5 renaboss said:

So, so happy the Beatles defied all predictions - they deserve to be in the top 10! Also pretty stoked about them being #1 in the UK.

Anyone know if the song is being pushed to radio to ensure its longevity? I would hate for this to be a short-lived comeback.

I mean ..it's not like we can expect them to perform and tour together

perhaps they could use cardboard cutouts for the missing members!

[renfield75]

Another impressive stat for the Beatles is that "Now And Then" isn't even their highest debuting song on the Hot 100; "Let It Be" debuted at a then-record setting number 6 in 1970. And that record stood for 25 years!

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Nov 13, 2023 16:14:40 GMT -5 badrobot said:

I'm wondering if labels are starting to see some benefits to not releasing on a Friday -- you potentially get a bit more online buzz when your song release is not competing for attention with a lot of other songs being released the same day, which may be worth it if a label cares less about a high chart debut.

That’s been mentioned a few times here before but some people don’t grasp that reasons might exist beyond charts 😭🤣 but for sure I think that reason is one of several!

[Gary]

Like for me as with likely many who bought the song, the significance was the fact that there was a new song at all, which is the "event" in itself.