👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 15:34:29 GMT -5
Quoting for absolute accuracy. I’m so sick of this narrative that you have completely debunked. In my *Bitch Please* era. Girl I'm just tired of this one narrative in particular because it's so unfounded, such a reach, and so obvious in intent. Like, cool, you don't like the album or the way it sounds sonically. Understandable. I get that as I have been there. But just because it's not connecting with you doesn't mean it shouldn't or doesn't connect with anyone else in particular and if over 5 million copies isn't enough to signifiy an album is broadly connecting what is? At heart it comes from trying to rationalize the success of something you personally find unworthy/undeserving of success so you turn to justifications: "well, only rabid fans must like this". Like, girl... |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 23, 2024 20:45:26 GMT -5
An album doesn't sell 5 million copies (6 million a guarantee at this point) if *only* the core base of an artist is enjoying it Not that I'm disagreeing with your post because I enjoy the album despite not caring about the personal narratives of most of the tracks but to be fair, she has a very large core base AND she's released many variants. Not to pull the variant card but I would honestly be curious to know her sales had she only stuck with the original 4 versions of the album and not released any variants after release-day. It's probably not actually *that* high, but at the same time, it could still be a considerable total. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 20:57:44 GMT -5
An album doesn't sell 5 million copies (6 million a guarantee at this point) if *only* the core base of an artist is enjoying it Not that I'm disagreeing with your post because I enjoy the album despite not caring about the personal narratives of most of the tracks but to be fair, she has a very large core base Oh hi there again Max. Maybe you didn't see where I said "and I don't care how big the artist is" which was indirectly referencing the size of any potential fanbase, but I account for that in my line of thinking. Hard core fans are going to purchase the album prior to release or first week out and sales are going to quickly deplete thereafter if no one beyond that is interested. TTPD has had great legs and is most certainly going to hit minimum 6 million. You're not going to convince me Taylor has 6 million people who are automatically going to purchase whatever she releases in a super staggered fashion no less. Her albums would be padded with much greater totals certainly if her core was that large. I think it's much more reasonable to assume that there may be people outside of her core audience who enjoy it as well. Oh, I knew this argument was coming from someone here. lol I've already in the Hits thread once before done the calculations and work to discover TTPD would have spent 10 of its 12 first weeks at #1 without the added variants, most of which have amounted to no more than 10-40k copies variably. Outside of the first week you're looking at 100k or at most 150k extra units tops. Calculating the first week sans variants would be impossible and I don't care to do so. Outside of sales if we look at streaming, the album is doing amazingly there as well so the whole "variant" excuse is pretty moot. I understand TTPD isn't everyone's cup of tea, but to say the only people who like or enjoy it is her hardcore fans as it is breaking streaming record after streaming record and sales records while outpacing the sales of her last album is just silly to me and reaching at best. If this were Evermore maybe I could see that, but with TTPD, it just feels like disingenuousness. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 23, 2024 21:10:12 GMT -5
Not that I'm disagreeing with your post because I enjoy the album despite not caring about the personal narratives of most of the tracks but to be fair, she has a very large core base Oh hi there again Max. Maybe you didn't see where I said "and I don't care how big the artist is" which was indirectly referencing the size of any potential fanbase (I obviously account for that in my line of thinking). Hard core fans are going to purchase the album prior to release or first week out and sales are going to quickly deplete thereafter if no one beyond that is interested. TTPD has had great legs and is most certainly going to hit minimum 6 million. You're not going to convince me Taylor has 6 million people who are automatically going to purchase whatever she releases in a super staggered fashion no less. Her albums would be padded with much greater totals certainly if her core was that large. I think it's much more reasonable to assume that there may be people outside of her core audience who enjoy it as well. Oh, how I knew this argument was coming from someone here. lol I've already in the Hits thread once before done the calculations and work to discover TTPD would have spent 10 of its 12 first weeks at #1 without the added variants, most of which have amounted to no more than 10-40k copies variably. Outside of the first week you're looking at 100k or at most 150k extra units tops. Calculating the first week sans variants would be impossible and I don't care to do so. Outside of sales if we look at streaming, the album is doing amazingly there as well so the whole "variant" excuse is pretty moot. I understand TTPD isn't everyone's cup of tea, but to say the only people who like or enjoy it is her hardcore fans as it is breaking streaming record after streaming record and outpacing the sales of her last album is just silly to me and reaching at best. I apologize for missing your calculations. I haven't seen any of those and had been curious because the variants thing is an easy think to get brought up and while I personally don't think they'd contribute THAT much to her total sales, it's still something that's interested me just out of curiosity. And not even the weekly ones that came out after week 1, but even among the original ones on release day. I guess basically, I'd be curious to know more about how many people bought at least copy of the album, rather than how many copies were sold of the album. |
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mccloud
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Post by mccloud on Jul 23, 2024 21:15:15 GMT -5
I mean, it is her giant core streaming this every week basically. She did 2.5 mil first week and has like a weird cult of fans that stalk her every move
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 21:18:34 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know more about how many people bought at least copy of the album, rather than how many copies were sold of the album. And why is this a reoccurring question that is exclusive to Taylor and her success? Do people not think that there are collectors of every artist who might buy multiple copies? And are we accounting for all the other huge artists throughout history who've had fans buying multiple copies of hugely successful albums? Like in the 90s when people would buy multiples of the same cd, one for their car, one for their home? Etc. And if someone were able to do these calculations of Taylor and somehow show, say 100k people (which is likely a very high estimate) bought more than 1 copy, what does that mean exactly? Those sales are "invalid" or don't count? I guess what I'm asking here is what is the point of all this? What conclusion is to be reached? I mean, it is her giant core streaming this every week basically. She did 2.5 mil first week and has like a weird cult of fans that stalk her every move Here are those pesky assumptions again. Based on what exactly? Your theories? Do you have access to Spotify data that breaks down streams in terms of who they're coming from, whether it's coming from her core audience or casual listeners? And what differentiates a core fans from a casual fan from a casual listener? Is this a weighted system where one is more valuable than the next? At the end of the day it doesn't matter. If an album is popular it's popular. |
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mccloud
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Post by mccloud on Jul 23, 2024 21:24:35 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know more about how many people bought at least copy of the album, rather than how many copies were sold of the album. And why is this a reoccurring question that is exclusive to Taylor and her success? Do people not think that there are collectors of every artist who might buy multiple copies? And are we accounting for all the other huge artists throughout history who've had fans buying multiple copies of hugely successful albums throughout history? Like in the 90s when people would buy multiples of the same cd, one for their car, one for their home? Etc. And if someone were able to do these calculations of Taylor and somehow show, say 100k people (which is likely a very high estimate) bought more than 1 copy, what does that mean exactly? Those sales are "invalid" or don't count? I guess what I'm asking here is what is the point of all this? What conclusion is to be reached? I mean, it is her giant core streaming this every week basically. She did 2.5 mil first week and has like a weird cult of fans that stalk her every move Here are those pesky assumptions again. Based on what exactly? Your theories? Do you have access to Spotify data that breaks down streams in terms of who they're coming from, whether it's coming from her core audience or casual listeners? And what differentiates a core fans from a casual fan from a casual listener? Is this a weighted system where one is more valuable than the next? At the end of the day it doesn't matter. If an album is popular it's popular. Anti-Hero and Karma you would hear people playing it "outside" (general public). This album is just deep cut after deep cut. Even Fortnite isn't half as big as her biggest singles and that reach obviously stops the album from hitting the general public as well as her other albums |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 21:28:28 GMT -5
Anti-Hero and Karma you would hear people playing it "outside" (general public). This album is just deep cut after deep cut. Even Fortnite isn't half as big as her biggest singles and that reach obviously stops the album from hitting the general public as hard as her other albums that also don't have big hits. Again. Single success and album success are two different things. An album can be hugely successful without really big singles. An artist can have an album people love without huge hit after huge hit. Taylor doesn't even need a huge hit or hits at all at this stage in her career to signal people to check out her album. Everyone knows TTPD is out because she's everywhere. She doesn't need an "Espresso" or like-sized hit for people to notice this. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 23, 2024 21:29:15 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know more about how many people bought at least copy of the album, rather than how many copies were sold of the album. And why is this a reoccurring question that is exclusive to Taylor? Do people not think that there are collectors of every artist who might buy multiple copies? And are we accounting for all the other huge artists throughout history who've had fans buying multiple copies of hugely successful albums throughout history? Like in the 90s when people would buy multiples of the same cd, one for their car, one for their home? Etc. And if someone were able to do these calculations of Taylor and somehow show, say 100k people (which is likely a very high estimate) bought more than 1 copy, what does that mean exactly? Those sales are "invalid" or don't count? I guess what I'm asking here is what is the point of all this? What conclusion is to be reached? More or less just a curiosity. I personally don't believe people in the 80s and 90s commonly purchased multiple copies of an album. I don't think that phenomenon really took off until maybe the last decade or so when artists really started taking advantage of the power of fans' willingness to buy multiple copies of an album (me, for example, I own 7 or 8 copies of Gaga's Born This Way lol but no two are the same). I don't think of the sales as invalid but I would question the popularity of an album that was deemed to have a significant number of its copies sold to people who owned multiple copies of the same album. For me, popularity is more based on the number of people investing time/money in something rather than how much time/money they invest in it, so an album that sells 4 million copies to 1 million different people could be as popular as a million selling album owned by a million different people. I understand that others may not share that opinion and that's okay by me. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 21:35:48 GMT -5
More or less just a curiosity. This is absolutely not the case when I've seen most people question this. It's questioned in a very negative way in attempts to be dismissive of her success in some way. Let's be real. Most people don't assert these things or question them because they're simply curious about the metrics. lol They want to utilize something in a way to delegitimize her performance. Well I'm personally gonna disagree with you here as I have family, my mom in particular, who used to buy multiple copies of the same album for reasons I stated before. My brother once purchased the same Spice Girls album 10 times to hand out to our family for Christmas. Well, good thing that doesn't appear to be the case in all likelihood. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 23, 2024 21:48:10 GMT -5
More or less just a curiosity. This is absolutely not the case when I've seen most people question this. It's questioned in a very negative way in attempts to be dismissive of her success in some way. Let's be real. People don't assert these things or question them because they're simply curious about the metrics. lol They want to utilize something in a way to delegitimize her performance. Well I'm personally gonna disagree with you here as I have family, my mom in particular, who used to buy multiple copies of the same album for reasons I stated before. My brother once purchased the same Spice Girls album 10 times to hand out to our family for Christmas. Well, good thing that doesn't appear to be the case in all likelihood. No Eloqueen, I wasn't questioning in a negative way or attempting to diminish her success or popularity. I am being real. I value numbers, stats and figures and the hard meaning behind them and occasionally question situations that are out of the ordinary, such as album variants and their place in the bigger picture. It has nothing to do with Taylor specifically, though she is an easy example because of how frequently she's done it. I'll forgive you for missing the many instances over the past couple years in which I've celebrated her success, sat in awe of her sheer power in numbers and popularity and defended her against the many unfair and untrue statements people have made against her. You continue talking down to me like I'm some enemy or hater to her and I really don't understand what the purpose is. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 23, 2024 21:56:37 GMT -5
No Eloqueen, I wasn't questioning in a negative way or attempting to diminish her success or popularity. I am being real. I value numbers, stats and figures and the hard meaning behind them and occasionally question situations that are out of the ordinary, such as album variants and their place in the bigger picture. Never said that was your specific intention? I said most people who ask aren't merely curious about metrics. I apologize if you misunderstood my post. Oh, I guess I've never seen others (or you that I remember) question it with any other artist or even artists who've released variants of their albums here so maybe that's why I was curious as to why the question felt exclusive to Taylor. Not quite sure what relevance this has, but sure. I don't think I've "talked down" to you once in this discussion actually. A disagreence or asking a question isn't talking down to someone. I haven't been disrespectful or called you out of your name or anything. With that said, that's the last I have to say on the matter. Anything further can be discussions for someone else. |
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Jul 24, 2024 7:36:18 GMT -5
It doesn't get better lmao, this seriously has me wondering if we're gonna see losses this big for the rest of the week. It could damn near exit the top 40 on Sunday morning! (But then watch it be saved from going 13-Out thanks to recurrents.)
7 19 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 4781 11095 -6314 9.299
-924 Spins
-418 Bullet
-1.734 Audience
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No Brakes
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Post by No Brakes on Jul 24, 2024 8:09:33 GMT -5
It doesn't get better lmao, this seriously has me wondering if we're gonna see losses this big for the rest of the week. It could damn near exit the top 40 on Sunday morning! (But then watch it be saved from going 13-Out thanks to recurrents.) 7 19 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 4781 11095 -6314 9.299 -924 Spins -418 Bullet -1.734 Audience Anyone is in denial if they don’t think this and the entire album rollout was as I said earlier, a massive, potentially the grandest payola scheme of at least the last twenty years. Explains why her and Travis Kelce are still together- probably cue up the breakup right in time for the 2024 NFL Season. Let’s be very clear, these spin drop numbers are worse than the infamous “9/12/01 Banned Song List” numbers. This is DROWNING POOLS bad (and that wasn’t payola in the first place). Wow. This is really something. |
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 24, 2024 8:17:31 GMT -5
LMAO these nuts are pure comical relief at this point! Please keep checking the thread and commenting. I am living. You also may want to check out the ICDIWABH thread. I guess that’s being “payola-ed” right up the charts?!?
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No Brakes
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Post by No Brakes on Jul 24, 2024 8:28:34 GMT -5
LMAO these nuts are pure comical relief at this point! Please keep checking the thread and commenting. I am living. You also may want to check out the ICDIWABH thread. I guess that’s being “payola-ed” right up the charts?!? Let’s be real here, for us chart dorks, this is an actual “chart event”, so yeah it’s gonna pique people’s interests on this forum. In reality, this song is creating a reference point/name for itself. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 24, 2024 8:34:48 GMT -5
It’s a great chart event for sure but jumping right to payola, it’s lazy thinking. Possible? Sure. But we’re going to need more to make the connection then radio play numbers. Remember: payola is illegal. Would labels or stations willingly make it this obvious if it was actually payola? And would the cost of keeping a song in the top 5 on pop radio justify it for what return? The album is selling/streaming regardless of a single’s presence on pop radio so if you can explain the logic behind why it’s payola and provide some numbers or figures of some kind, then sure, I’ll buy into it as a legitimate thing happening here.
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Jul 24, 2024 9:31:11 GMT -5
Kind of Ot, but maybe the label makes her do these variants because they don’t make as much on music as they used to.
Knowing she has a willing to pay fan base.
It’s a business for the labels so they’re trying to get every penny they can make.
Taylor just made beyond bank on her tour.
I doubt she’s thinking let’s put out more versions of this album for I can stay num.1 when I probably cleared 50 million pocket money from my huge successful tour..?
I could be wrong, but I think it’s a label thing and not a Taylor thing??
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Post by Fears in the Fire on Jul 24, 2024 13:27:49 GMT -5
I completely agree that TTPD appeals mostly to swifties and didn’t really bring any new people into the fandom, unlike Midnights. This can be clearly seen in her Spotify numbers, which exploded around/after Midnights, but have stayed similar or even decreased slightly since TTPD.
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mccloud
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Post by mccloud on Jul 24, 2024 15:26:39 GMT -5
I completely agree that TTPD appeals mostly to swifties and didn’t really bring any new people into the fandom, unlike Midnights. This can be clearly seen in her Spotify numbers, which exploded around/after Midnights, but have stayed similar or even decreased slightly since TTPD. Exactly. Good luck explaining this to her cult |
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Acid Eyes
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Post by Acid Eyes on Jul 24, 2024 16:15:07 GMT -5
She is the single most powerful person in entertainment right now. I highly doubt her label makes her do anything lol.
Let's remember - even Republic didn't know folklore was coming. And that was before her Eras Tour world domination. Arguably that was when her career was at its most precarious (2 back-to-back underperforming albums and a tour canceled due to COVID).
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fearlessarrow
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Post by fearlessarrow on Jul 29, 2024 3:18:07 GMT -5
Reaches new peaks of #7 on AC and #31 on Dance.
SUNDAY PUBLISHED UPDATE (7/28)
POP:
13 22 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 2828 7686 -4858 5.543
Chart run: 30-13-10-8-7-7-7-7-5-5-5-4-7-13-22
HOT AC:
11 18 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 1824 2363 -539 6.027
Chart run: 24-13-9-5-5-4-3-1-3-4-5-6-9-11-18
AC:
9 7 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 386 431 -45 0.905
Chart run: 19-14-13-13-13-14-11-11-11-11-11-11-10-9-7
DANCE:
35 31 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 141 131 10 0.010
Chart run: 47-46-42-36-34-35-35-39-43-44-35-31
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Post by fearlessarrow on Aug 5, 2024 2:32:42 GMT -5
Drops out of the top 50 on Dance.
SUNDAY PUBLISHED UPDATE (8/4)
POP:
22 31 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 1675 2828 -1153 3.045
Chart run: 30-13-10-8-7-7-7-7-5-5-5-4-7-13-22-31
HOT AC:
18 19 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 1438 1824 -386 5.140
Chart run: 24-13-9-5-5-4-3-1-3-4-5-6-9-11-18-19
AC:
7 8 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 342 386 -44 1.183
Chart run: 19-14-13-13-13-14-11-11-11-11-11-11-10-9-7-8
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Post by fearlessarrow on Aug 12, 2024 4:01:10 GMT -5
SUNDAY PUBLISHED UPDATE (8/11)
POP:
31 35 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 1230 1675 -445 2.262
Chart run: 30-13-10-8-7-7-7-7-5-5-5-4-7-13-22-31-35
HOT AC:
19 23 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 1018 1438 -420 3.573
Chart run: 24-13-9-5-5-4-3-1-3-4-5-6-9-11-18-19-23
AC:
8 7 TAYLOR SWIFT Fortnight f/Post Malone 351 342 9 1.176
Chart run: 19-14-13-13-13-14-11-11-11-11-11-11-10-9-7-8-7
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