Katy Perry : "Woman's World"

[avamaxstan]

Aug 13, 2024 7:38:04 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 13, 2024 7:06:54 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

The massive difference here is that Mariah was a phenomenally talented legend who had a career slump. Katy has none of the talent, legacy, pedigree, respect or acclaim to fall back on in the absence of commercial success. Her entire career rested on serving up fun radio bops.

Really? No legacy? She has a catalogue of huge hits that she can tour on for the rest of her career. Just look at how successful her Vegas residency was. She’s still an A-list celebrity who has taken on multiple business ventures. Even if she’s not a chart topper anymore, her career isn’t dead. C’mon now!

That's unrelated to my point. She'll still have her cute brand deals and hosting appearances, no one is taking that from her! <3

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

this is now ridiculous wtf, we know she isn't on Mariah's level, but let's not act like she's Jojo Siwa or something, be for real.

[SPRΞΞ]

Isnt Katy the 9th biggest female artist on the Hot 100 all-time list?

[Love Plastic Love]

I mean, I think Mariah had some "currency" that Katy doesn't-some of what she did that is considered normal today was literally her blazing a new path in the 90s (outside of chart success and I know younger people may not even realize that, but in the early 2000s people did) and I didn't know anyone who didn't call her one of the best voices in the world, even during the time everyone hated her.
I'm not sure Katy has some of the elements that would bring fans back on her side, either through being the most talented at something or literally changing the entire music industry or just really, really connecting with a strong fanbase that will stay even when the hits are gone. She's not Jojo Siwa, but I'm not sure she is a Mariah Carey/Madonna/Taylor Swift either.
(And don't come for me about Taylor Swift she has basically perfected having a fanbase connect with you on a large scale lol)

It just puts her in an interesting position for staging a comeback at this point. I still think the right song would at least be a hit.

[avamaxstan]

People trying to draw any parallel between Katy and Mariah's career arcs (Mariah sweetie, I'm so sorry) are missing the fundamental underlying premise. Mariah ruled an entire decade start to finish, blew away chart records, released multiple classics, built a loyal fanbase and a legacy as the greatest vocalist of her generation. So when she entered her first flop era in 2001, she was still doing it as an established legend with a deep well of respect and talent.

Katy's career brand was always "hot girl who makes fun shallow pop bops" and she did it better than anyone - that's what the general public used her for. In the mid 2010s once the Dr. Luke hit factory dried up, and she ditched the hot fun girl image for the cringey mom persona, there was nothing really left for her to stand on (e.g. diehard fanbase, industry acclaim/respect) and the public quickly left.

[Mayman]

Aug 10, 2024 18:38:54 GMT -5 COW COW COW COW COW COW COW said:

Aug 10, 2024 16:29:25 GMT -5 mccloud said:

Yeah her career is over. Sad to see tbh I loved her singles from her first 3 albums

Careful there, someone might talk about how Katy got Tik Tok likes and so therefore a comeback was for sure in the cards…

So instead of replying with any of my points from the original post, you make up stuff from my original post and take bits and form an entire new sentence. Just shows that your argument is not serious and you didn't want to actually have a discussion. Shocking coming from a user of almost 20 years.

"Now I'm not saying that TikTok comments are the definitive end all be all of hype - but the interest was there" is what I said. So you just made that up and now you look foolish. That sucks.

[Snowbeast]

Aug 13, 2024 9:57:38 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

I mean, I think Mariah had some "currency" that Katy doesn't-some of what she did that is considered normal today was literally her blazing a new path in the 90s (outside of chart success and I know younger people may not even realize that, but in the early 2000s people did) and I didn't know anyone who didn't call her one of the best voices in the world, even during the time everyone hated her.
I'm not sure Katy has some of the elements that would bring fans back on her side, either through being the most talented at something or literally changing the entire music industry or just really, really connecting with a strong fanbase that will stay even when the hits are gone. She's not Jojo Siwa, but I'm not sure she is a Mariah Carey/Madonna/Taylor Swift either.
(And don't come for me about Taylor Swift she has basically perfected having a fanbase connect with you on a large scale lol)

It just puts her in an interesting position for staging a comeback at this point. I still think the right song would at least be a hit.

And it’s not like it’s rocket science. Espresso and Please, Please, Please are the exact songs she should have made / should make….like to a tee.

I just can’t believe anyone heard these songs and thought she had hits or a commercial comeback. The whole thing must be a vessel to go on a career spanning tour of hits and had low/ no commercial expectations from the get-go from the label.

[wavey.]

Aug 13, 2024 9:57:38 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

It just puts her in an interesting position for staging a comeback at this point. I still think the right song would at least be a hit.

Exactly. Like I said before, if these ladies who are older than Katy scoring hits way later into their careers(Tik Tok helps things alot. I was against it at first, but I saw the vision), then Katy can get one too. The team + Katy just has to work a lil harder and that's okay.

[mccloud]

Aug 13, 2024 18:16:38 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Aug 13, 2024 9:57:38 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

It just puts her in an interesting position for staging a comeback at this point. I still think the right song would at least be a hit.

Exactly. Like I said before, if these ladies who are older than Katy scoring hits way later into their careers(Tik Tok helps things alot. I was against it at first, but I saw the vision), then Katy can get one too. The team + Katy just has to work a lil harder and that's okay.

It isn't super difficult. She needs to work with younger current hitmaking producers and stop pandering to 2010 because of Tik Tok

[Choco]

Aug 13, 2024 19:23:25 GMT -5 mccloud said:

Aug 13, 2024 18:16:38 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Exactly. Like I said before, if these ladies who are older than Katy scoring hits way later into their careers(Tik Tok helps things alot. I was against it at first, but I saw the vision), then Katy can get one too. The team + Katy just has to work a lil harder and that's okay.

It isn't super difficult. She needs to work with younger current hitmaking producers and stop pandering to 2010 because of Tik Tok

Honestly this, but it's so obvious to everyone except her and her team. I don't get the entire approach they took with 143.

Also it's very clear that when people say career dead they mean future commercial prospects. Katy Perry will never struggle to put food on her table, ever and we all know that.

[popwizard]

Aug 13, 2024 7:38:04 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 13, 2024 7:06:54 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

The massive difference here is that Mariah was a phenomenally talented legend who had a career slump. Katy has none of the talent, legacy, pedigree, respect or acclaim to fall back on in the absence of commercial success. Her entire career rested on serving up fun radio bops.

Really? No legacy? She has a catalogue of huge hits that she can tour on for the rest of her career. Just look at how successful her Vegas residency was. She’s still an A-list celebrity who has taken on multiple business ventures. Even if she’s not a chart topper anymore, her career isn’t dead. C’mon now!

That’s the thing. Her Vegas residency wasn’t that successful. I don’t think she’s a true legacy act.

It saw moderate success at best I’d say.

Usher did $83.6 million with 71 shows. Katy did $46.4 million with 80 shows. Gaga did over $100 million with about 70 shows. Bruno Mars $114.3 million with 74 shows.

[SPRΞΞ]

I would love to know what she’s thinking right now.

[wjr15]

Aug 13, 2024 22:19:46 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Aug 13, 2024 7:38:04 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Really? No legacy? She has a catalogue of huge hits that she can tour on for the rest of her career. Just look at how successful her Vegas residency was. She’s still an A-list celebrity who has taken on multiple business ventures. Even if she’s not a chart topper anymore, her career isn’t dead. C’mon now!

That’s the thing. Her Vegas residency wasn’t that successful. I don’t think she’s a true legacy act.

It saw moderate success at best I’d say.

Usher did $83.6 million with 71 shows. Katy did $46.4 million with 80 shows. Gaga did over $100 million with about 70 shows. Bruno Mars $114.3 million with 74 shows.

Katy still had the 8th highest grossing female residency in the history of Las Vegas. That pretty much shows her residency did perfectly fine. She is a true legacy act and she has the discography to back it up.

[Az Paynter]

POP:
21 30 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 2050 3354 -1304 2.576

-245 Spins
-170 Bullet
-0.436 Audience

HOT AC:
14 17 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 1611 1942 -331 3.978

-105 Spins
-106 Bullet
-0.346 Audience

[popwizard]

Aug 14, 2024 6:27:53 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 13, 2024 22:19:46 GMT -5 popwizard said:

That’s the thing. Her Vegas residency wasn’t that successful. I don’t think she’s a true legacy act.

It saw moderate success at best I’d say.

Usher did $83.6 million with 71 shows. Katy did $46.4 million with 80 shows. Gaga did over $100 million with about 70 shows. Bruno Mars $114.3 million with 74 shows.

Katy still had the 8th highest grossing female residency in the history of Las Vegas. That pretty much shows her residency did perfectly fine. She is a true legacy act and she has the discography to back it up.

Compared to her contemporaries her revenue is about half with more tickets. She’s ahead of female acts who are generations before her like Cher, or acts who would be ahead of her adjusted for inflation like Shania from 2012. She’s also about to be surpassed by Carrie Underwood when she finishes her run.

[wjr15]

Aug 14, 2024 9:42:10 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Aug 14, 2024 6:27:53 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Katy still had the 8th highest grossing female residency in the history of Las Vegas. That pretty much shows her residency did perfectly fine. She is a true legacy act and she has the discography to back it up.

Compared to her contemporaries her revenue is about half with more tickets. She’s ahead of female acts who are generations before her like Cher, or acts who would be ahead of her adjusted for inflation like Shania from 2012. She’s also about to be surpassed by Carrie Underwood when she finishes her run.

I don’t see an issue here. Her residency did just fine and it got critical acclaim. You’re trying to find some narrative that her residency was not successful and that is just not true.

[SPRΞΞ]

Maybe the merch sucked, lol.

[GW]

I distinctly remember her confidently saying "I'm going to give them what they want" (or something close to that) as a sassy tease months before the era began. She also alluded to an upcoming tour while announcing her departure from Idol. I was excited because it seemed like she was very confident about what was coming.

Fast forward several months, and only a relative few seem to want what she's given us so far.

I haven't been paying attention to other international charts - maybe she was/is focused on her success outside of the US with this dance-heavy direction?

It's just such an odd, off-putting situation. And as I've mentioned before - something just seems off with her, music aside. Hope I'm wrong.

[spiritboy]

Aug 13, 2024 22:41:26 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

I would love to know what she’s thinking right now.

She is having the time of her life holidaying in the Mediterranean Sea with her family and friends. It's only forum people who seem to be so "concerned" about her career.

[popwizard]

Aug 14, 2024 9:47:49 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 14, 2024 9:42:10 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Compared to her contemporaries her revenue is about half with more tickets. She’s ahead of female acts who are generations before her like Cher, or acts who would be ahead of her adjusted for inflation like Shania from 2012. She’s also about to be surpassed by Carrie Underwood when she finishes her run.

I don’t see an issue here. Her residency did just fine and it got critical acclaim. You’re trying to find some narrative that her residency was not successful and that is just not true.

It’s not a narrative. I said it saw moderate success at best. Adjusted for inflation she’s not in the Top 10 for females and she’s a relatively “new act” - you think her numbers will get better over time if she were to go back to Vegas?

I believe you said “just look at how successful her Vegas residency was” - it wasn’t and I corrected you. You tried to craft some defense-mechanism narrative.

[wjr15]

Aug 14, 2024 13:05:49 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Aug 14, 2024 9:47:49 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

I don’t see an issue here. Her residency did just fine and it got critical acclaim. You’re trying to find some narrative that her residency was not successful and that is just not true.

It’s not a narrative. I said it saw moderate success at best. Adjusted for inflation she’s not in the Top 10 for females and she’s a relatively “new act” - you think her numbers will get better over time if she were to go back to Vegas?

I believe you said “just look at how successful her Vegas residency was” - it wasn’t and I corrected you. You tried to craft some defense-mechanism narrative.

It was successful and you’re trying to downplay that success by saying to adjust for inflation so you can say it was not successful. That is the narrative you’re trying to present. You’re trying to justify a way to disparage Katy because you have a hate-boner for her. Your past posts in this thread alone shows your dislike toward Katy and your inability to be objective about her.

Jul 15, 2024 22:27:16 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Not even much of a relic. I didn’t realize her Vegas Residency was pretty mediocre with $46 million in revenue. Gaga did $112 million with less shows.

She had lightning in a bottle with Teenage Dream. 5 hits that made sense for radio and the music climate at the time, more than anything that makes more distinctive in my opinion. She’s an interesting case in pop because I can’t imagine who would be a Stan of her music. And a strong Stan base is necessary in my opinion for legacy longevity.

I wasn’t expecting her to have one of the worst pop comebacks, if not the worst, in history.

Jul 18, 2024 15:46:47 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Just chiming in to say and I don’t want to derail the thread or for this topic to continue much longer but a “breakdown” and a legitimate mental health crisis (like the one Katy mocked multiple times with Britney) are not the same. Katy had a “breakdown” because she cut her hair, people weren’t feeling her or the music and she flopped. She even exploited it as far as I’m concerned by having a live therapy session during her 72-hour livestream. Britney, who Katy mocked multiple times, had multiple mental health episodes that involved the parasitic paparazzi, her children, money-hungry exes, etc.

Katy is now working with an abuser, and not even considering with empathy Kesha’s 10-year legal battle with Dr. Luke. Kesha is just now free this year.

So, point the finger at the vile monster, which is Katy.

It’s hard to take you seriously in this thread when this is your post history.

[popwizard]

Aug 14, 2024 13:29:41 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 14, 2024 13:05:49 GMT -5 popwizard said:

It’s not a narrative. I said it saw moderate success at best. Adjusted for inflation she’s not in the Top 10 for females and she’s a relatively “new act” - you think her numbers will get better over time if she were to go back to Vegas?

I believe you said “just look at how successful her Vegas residency was” - it wasn’t and I corrected you. You tried to craft some defense-mechanism narrative.

It was successful and you’re trying to downplay that success by saying to adjust for inflation so you can say it was not successful. That is the narrative you’re trying to present. You’re trying to justify a way to disparage Katy because you have a hate-boner for her. Your past posts in this thread alone shows your dislike toward Katy and your inability to be objective about her.

Adjusted for inflation is a fact. It’s not a narrative - and it’s an industry wide practice, beyond music to adjust for inflation. How is it fair not to do that? A narrative would be your view of "look at how successful it was" - when that's not the case. Is Gaga not a contemporary of Katy, yet she more than doubled her revenue with less shows (a jazz show) yet you say "look at how successful it was". Okay girl. Carrie will also surpass her, and yes adjusting for inflation puts her out of the Top 10 for females, and she's a relatively new and modern act.

[SPRΞΞ]

Aug 14, 2024 12:59:09 GMT -5 spiritboy said:

Aug 13, 2024 22:41:26 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

I would love to know what she’s thinking right now.

She is having the time of her life holidaying in the Mediterranean Sea with her family and friends. It's only forum people who seem to be so "concerned" about her career.

I don't think so. We see these posts of "Planet Unbothered" or her jumping out of helicopters, but it's just like looking at your friend's profile on Facebook. Looks all perfect from the outside, but behind the pictures is a different story. Hopefully she is genuinely happy, but this all is pretty brutal, even for someone as tough-skinned as Katy. She's weathered flops before certainly, but this is beyond anything.

hopefully she gets the Vanguard award, it'll be something positive and rewarding amongst this sea of negativity.

I want her to release the album NOW. Like why wait another whole month?

[wjr15]

Aug 14, 2024 13:49:02 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Aug 14, 2024 13:29:41 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

It was successful and you’re trying to downplay that success by saying to adjust for inflation so you can say it was not successful. That is the narrative you’re trying to present. You’re trying to justify a way to disparage Katy because you have a hate-boner for her. Your past posts in this thread alone shows your dislike toward Katy and your inability to be objective about her.

Adjusted for inflation is a fact. It’s not a narrative - and it’s an industry wide practice, beyond music to adjust for inflation. How is it fair not to do that? A narrative would be your view of "look at how successful it was" - when that's not the case. Is Gaga not a contemporary of Katy, yet she more than doubled her revenue with less shows (a jazz show) yet you say "look at how successful it was". Okay girl. Carrie will also surpass her, and yes adjusting for inflation puts her out of the Top 10 for females, and she's a relatively new and modern act.

I’m gonna leave this on one last post because you are obviously biased. Gaga’s residency was successful, Katy’s residency was successful, Carrie’s residency is successful. I don’t understand why you have such a need to disparage one artist’s success just because they didn’t match the numbers of another artist. If that’s the case, then every artists’ tour must’ve been unsuccessful since they didn’t get close to the $1 billion that The Eras Tour grossed…oh and don’t forget to adjust for inflation!

[SPRΞΞ]

Aug 14, 2024 14:00:36 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Aug 14, 2024 13:49:02 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Adjusted for inflation is a fact. It’s not a narrative - and it’s an industry wide practice, beyond music to adjust for inflation. How is it fair not to do that? A narrative would be your view of "look at how successful it was" - when that's not the case. Is Gaga not a contemporary of Katy, yet she more than doubled her revenue with less shows (a jazz show) yet you say "look at how successful it was". Okay girl. Carrie will also surpass her, and yes adjusting for inflation puts her out of the Top 10 for females, and she's a relatively new and modern act.

I’m gonna leave this on one last post because you are obviously biased. Gaga’s residency was successful, Katy’s residency was successful, Carrie’s residency is successful. I don’t understand why you have such a need to disparage one artist’s success just because they didn’t match the numbers of another artist. If that’s the case, then every artists’ tour must’ve been unsuccessful since they didn’t get close to the $1 billion that The Eras Tour grossed…oh and don’t forget to adjust for inflation!

in hindsight, the Sticky and Sweet Tour was a massive flop!!

[wavey.]

Aug 14, 2024 13:49:02 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Aug 14, 2024 13:29:41 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

It was successful and you’re trying to downplay that success by saying to adjust for inflation so you can say it was not successful. That is the narrative you’re trying to present. You’re trying to justify a way to disparage Katy because you have a hate-boner for her. Your past posts in this thread alone shows your dislike toward Katy and your inability to be objective about her.

Adjusted for inflation is a fact. It’s not a narrative - and it’s an industry wide practice, beyond music to adjust for inflation. How is it fair not to do that? A narrative would be your view of "look at how successful it was" - when that's not the case. Is Gaga not a contemporary of Katy, yet she more than doubled her revenue with less shows (a jazz show) yet you say "look at how successful it was". Okay girl. Carrie will also surpass her, and yes adjusting for inflation puts her out of the Top 10 for females, and she's a relatively new and modern act.

What's this disparaging on Katy? Very unnecessary. It seems like you're just minimizing her success overall and being overtly negative towards her in this thread.

[Az Paynter]

POP:
21 30 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 1872 3246 -1374 2.313

-178 Spins
-70 Bullet
-0.263 Audience

HOT AC:
15 17 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 1513 1925 -412 3.758

-98 Spins
-81 Bullet
-0.220 Audience

[collin]

Aug 14, 2024 14:06:01 GMT -5 wavey. said:

Aug 14, 2024 13:49:02 GMT -5 popwizard said:

Adjusted for inflation is a fact. It’s not a narrative - and it’s an industry wide practice, beyond music to adjust for inflation. How is it fair not to do that? A narrative would be your view of "look at how successful it was" - when that's not the case. Is Gaga not a contemporary of Katy, yet she more than doubled her revenue with less shows (a jazz show) yet you say "look at how successful it was". Okay girl. Carrie will also surpass her, and yes adjusting for inflation puts her out of the Top 10 for females, and she's a relatively new and modern act.

What's this disparaging on Katy? Very unnecessary. It seems like you're just minimizing her success overall and being overtly negative towards her in this thread.

It’s become clear that her success was a bit smoke-and-mirrors and that she hasn’t got much of a legacy.

[Az Paynter]

POP:
21 31 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 1634 3166 -1532 1.973

-238 Spins
-158 Bullet
-0.340 Audience

HOT AC:
16 21 KATY PERRY WOMAN'S WORLD 1378 1906 -528 3.486

-135 Spins
-116 Bullet
-0.272 Audience

[#LisaRinna]

Where is the Lifetimes thread?