G-Reg
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Post by G-Reg on Jul 10, 2024 15:34:20 GMT -5
There was many issues with Butter and ofcourse itβs not going to be any exactly similar situation in all aspects to TTPD. The main issue I would say was not even international fans sending money, but the fact repeated purchases from the same people continued to endlessly count. isnt this EXACTLY how streaming works tho? hahahhahah  yeah no. this comment is even dumber than your last one. an utter nonsensical daydream with zero bearing on reality, entirely fueled by your irrational dislike of Swift and therefore an inability to give her any credit where credit is due - an exposΓ© on how your mind has been completely fried when it comes to anything regarding her. i hope you recover. These posts sound so unnecessarily aggressive, just bringing it up because I've noticed it a lot. You can disagree with someone without insulting them. No way this reflects the 65k signed albums and the restocked variants. Hits is trying to make it seem competitive, when in reality Taylorβs likely at 200k rn ok, so a couple of things: 1. nobody had any proof of the "65k signed", that came out of swiftie twitterverse and was most likely conjured up by some little kid who just wanted attention. its entirely possible she only has 20k signed and isnt enough to block zach. 2.it is also possible that her team is waiting for this exact HDD article to ship the appropriate amount. On Swift's official webpage, it says the signed CDs will ship on or before july 10th. this probably the more likely scenario anyhow, 128k for bryan was exactly within my predicted zone 2 days ago, and i also predicted swift would lose. if she doesnt change course then i'll be right on that too. why am i always correct? And I mean, what does it mean when you say "why am I always correct" and then aren't correct? Saying this sounds snarky and you weren't even correct in the end. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jul 10, 2024 16:03:59 GMT -5
So how many people here own more than one copy of the Taylor album?
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Jul 10, 2024 16:09:49 GMT -5
So, just for reference after looking back, even without the additional variants post debut week, The Tortured Poets Department would still have acquired 10 of its first 12 weeks at #1 without the use of variants. The only two weeks it needed variants to aquire the top spot was Billie's debut week and this week with Zach Bryan. Billie's second week was close, but Taylor still would have edged her out without the variant. So all the proclamations about Taylor "needing" the variants to have such a long-running #1 or the variants being responsible for the majority of weeks at #1 are unfounded. The album has been super successful without the "tactics".
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Jul 10, 2024 16:14:51 GMT -5
Oo great to see Megan get a second week top 10! Perhaps the album will stick around in the higher end of the charts longer than I thought. Especially with "Mamushi" going viral (new peak of #30 on US spotify and #23 on US Apple Music today).
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jul 11, 2024 8:33:00 GMT -5
I think the annoying part is exactly what Eloqueen is saying. It didn't need these tactics to be the biggest album of the year, yet whenever someone comes close to #1 Taylor serves extremely online behaviour and drops, restocks, whatever you wanna call it. Most people like to pretend that big names do not even know about charts and Taylor is breaking that unspoken rule.
Joke's on most people because Taylor has proven to be a close chart follower as early as her second album.
At this point I'm just kinda sad for fans that keep buying MP3 files with a different album art they can download for free from Google and an acoustic version of a track they'll play twice before going back to the studio version. It's bordering on obsession and if this was a K-Pop act we would all be dragging them. But there's little to no argument around TTPD being #1. It's playing by the rules. Is it annoying? Kinda. I'm sure if this was a more widely liked project instead of her most divisive in years we would all be like "yas queen slay". This argument wasn't around when folklore did many weeks at #1 out of signed copies demand and multiple cover arts, for example.
To be completely fair too, who the fuck cares about Zach Bryan lol. This isn't Charli's critically beloved project missing #1 on the UK at the last minute, or Billie's best album and AOTY frontrunner getting blocked. It's a mid Zach Bryan album.
I also don't understand what game Bryan had to play. He could have done the variant thing. He was never beating Swifties at that engagement level. When Billie and her team tried that it was lowkey embarrassing imo.
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Post by Push The Button on Jul 11, 2024 9:20:50 GMT -5
So, just for reference after looking back, even without the additional variants post debut week, The Tortured Poets Department would still have acquired 10 of its first 12 weeks at #1 without the use of variants. The only two weeks it needed variants to aquire the top spot was Billie's debut week and this week with Zach Bryan. Billie's second week was close, but Taylor still would have edged her out without the variant. So all the proclamations about Taylor "needing" the variants to have such a long-running #1 or the variants being responsible for the majority of weeks at #1 are unfounded. The album has been super successful without the "tactics". And didnβt Billie also have a ton of variants available as well? |
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Post by artifexlife on Jul 11, 2024 9:26:38 GMT -5
So, just for reference after looking back, even without the additional variants post debut week, The Tortured Poets Department would still have acquired 10 of its first 12 weeks at #1 without the use of variants. The only two weeks it needed variants to aquire the top spot was Billie's debut week and this week with Zach Bryan. Billie's second week was close, but Taylor still would have edged her out without the variant. So all the proclamations about Taylor "needing" the variants to have such a long-running #1 or the variants being responsible for the majority of weeks at #1 are unfounded. The album has been super successful without the "tactics". And didnβt Billie also have a ton of variants available as well? Big difference between variants in the first week vs the 6th or 12th week. Maybe if your ultra mega successful album needs your cult base to buy 40 versions... it just isnt that good? Wish she'd focus on a musical legacy rather than one on charts that dont really mean anything. |
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Jul 11, 2024 9:48:16 GMT -5
I thought βButterβ did ok streaming and on radio.
No not number 1 level, but I thought it did ok??
They did have a pretty big fan base for a bit so maybe first week sales would have got it one week at number 1.??
I remember my friends daughter and friends used to go to fan meetings etc for them.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jul 11, 2024 10:06:52 GMT -5
I thought βButterβ did ok streaming and on radio. No not number 1 level, but I thought it did ok?? They did have a pretty big fan base for a bit so maybe first week sales would have got it one week at number 1.?? I remember my friends daughter and friends used to go to fan meetings etc for them. It did ok on streaming, depending what you view as "ok" (it certainly did not do "good" for a #1 song). Some examples: Third week at #1 - 15.4 million streams, and "good 4 u" was #2 on the Hot 100 with 42.1 million streams Fourth week at #1 - #24 on Streaming Songs, #25 on Radio Songs Sixth week at #1 - 11 million streams, and "good 4 u" had 30.2 million streams |
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Jul 11, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5
I thought βButterβ did ok streaming and on radio. No not number 1 level, but I thought it did ok?? They did have a pretty big fan base for a bit so maybe first week sales would have got it one week at number 1.?? I remember my friends daughter and friends used to go to fan meetings etc for them. It did ok on streaming, depending what you view as "ok" (it certainly did not do "good" for a #1 song). Some examples: Third week at #1 - 15.4 million streams, and "good 4 u" was #2 on the Hot 100 with 42.1 million streams Fourth week at #1 - #24 on Streaming Songs, #25 on Radio Songs Sixth week at #1 - 11 million streams, and "good 4 u" had 30.2 million streams I absolutely agree with you. Someone mentioned their streaming and airplay was non existent and I remember it did ok, but no not number one worthy. |
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Post by Push The Button on Jul 11, 2024 10:15:29 GMT -5
And didnβt Billie also have a ton of variants available as well? Big difference between variants in the first week vs the 6th or 12th week.Β Maybe if your ultra mega successful album needs your cult base to buy 40 versions... it just isnt that good? Wish she'd focus on a musical legacy rather than one on charts that dont really mean anything. That seems heavy-handed. Sheβs almost 20 years in and bigger than ever. There are little kids and adults attending her massive world tour. That feels like a legacy. |
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Jul 11, 2024 12:09:21 GMT -5
So, just for reference after looking back, even without the additional variants post debut week, The Tortured Poets Department would still have acquired 10 of its first 12 weeks at #1 without the use of variants. The only two weeks it needed variants to aquire the top spot was Billie's debut week and this week with Zach Bryan. Billie's second week was close, but Taylor still would have edged her out without the variant. So all the proclamations about Taylor "needing" the variants to have such a long-running #1 or the variants being responsible for the majority of weeks at #1 are unfounded. The album has been super successful without the "tactics". And didnβt Billie also have a ton of variants available as well? Not only did she also have a number of variants she released additional variants to compete with Taylor after she dropped hers. :) I just found it humorous that people act as if she needed these variants to dominate and it only padded her long run at #1 by 2 weeks. By the way some people speak about how beneficial they are and how much she "needs" them to sell, you'd think they'd she'd barely have a week without them. π |
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G-Reg
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Post by G-Reg on Jul 11, 2024 12:11:53 GMT -5
To be completely fair too, who the fuck cares about Zach Bryan lol. This isn't Charli's critically beloved project missing #1 on the UK at the last minute, or Billie's best album and AOTY frontrunner getting blocked. It's a mid Zach Bryan album. I also don't understand what game Bryan had to play. He could have done the variant thing. He was never beating Swifties at that engagement level. When Billie and her team tried that it was lowkey embarrassing imo. No see now this thread is just getting absolutely wild. I know we love our gay and girly pop here but I think some people are confusing opinions with facts. The man has songs charting from 4 different eras currently on the US Spotify top 50. When will y'all's favs do that? He's also getting acclaim from established musicians and (though he has a long way to go for this) is being compared to this generation's Springsteen or Dylan. If that's not your taste, fine, but saying "who the fuck cares about Zach Bryan" is kinda arrogant ngl. And the talk about the "game" has less to do with the variants and more that Zach released his album on a Thursday, thus taking away a massive amount of points from his chart week. If he'd released his album on Friday it would have been much closer, and if Taylor hadn't done that extra stuff he would've certainly been #1. But Taylor is, and that's great, because those are the rules. And I've never said anything negative about Taylor here because she's talented and smart and obviously has a big impact on people. |
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awkwardowl
Charting
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Posts: 145
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Post by awkwardowl on Jul 11, 2024 12:57:07 GMT -5
Comparing TTPD and Butter runs is pretty pathetic.
Butter real run should be ended with 1 week at #2 (deja vu had better streaming than this in Butter first week) and 2-4 weeks in top 10.
This song wasnt freefall only due to sales-driving fraud. If Billboard had set up sales/streaming ratio to at least 1:150 Butter's fuel would be over in two or three weeks with 7-8 weeks in Hot 100.
I understand that people tired of TTPD and Taylor Swift particularly. Still it is most streamed album for 10 weeks with some manipulations in Billie and Zach debuting weeks.
Butter run was a worse thing that happens in Billboard charts for a long long time. It wasnt competetive by consumption since week 2 and stole SOTS and 2 months at #1 from a song with much bigger numbers.
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Jul 11, 2024 15:41:18 GMT -5
I think Taylor should get week 13 at #1. β₯οΈβ₯οΈβ₯οΈ
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Post by Mayman on Jul 11, 2024 17:11:47 GMT -5
New digital album editions:
- The Tortured Poets Department: Guilty As Sin? (Live)
- The Tortured Poets Department: How Did It End? (Live)
- The Tortured Poets Department: Peter (Live)
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Jul 11, 2024 17:20:41 GMT -5
New digital album editions: - The Tortured Poets Department: Guilty As Sin? (Live) - The Tortured Poets Department: How Did It End? (Live) - The Tortured Poets Department: Peter (Live) She should have saved these for next week. π€£ |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jul 11, 2024 17:41:16 GMT -5
She can just casually restock one of the older versions next week β€οΈ
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Jul 11, 2024 17:44:08 GMT -5
New digital album editions: - The Tortured Poets Department: Guilty As Sin? (Live) - The Tortured Poets Department: How Did It End? (Live) - The Tortured Poets Department: Peter (Live) She should have saved these for next week. π€£ Maybe the race is closer than we think for week #12? Either that or she already has Anthology Vinyls for next week ready to ship and the focus will be on promoting those! If we donβt get anything by tomorrow Iβm giving up on the notion of Anthology vinyls though π |
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Jul 11, 2024 19:31:23 GMT -5
She should have saved these for next week. π€£ Maybe the race is closer than we think for week #12? Either that or she already has Anthology Vinyls for next week ready to ship and the focus will be on promoting those! If we donβt get anything by tomorrow Iβm giving up on the notion of Anthology vinyls though π I want the Anthology vinyl. Lol but I don't think we are ever getting them. I think we have more luck at getting Midnights 3AM on vinyl at this point. Lol |
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shanz88
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Post by shanz88 on Jul 11, 2024 22:17:12 GMT -5
Maybe the race is closer than we think for week #12? Either that or she already has Anthology Vinyls for next week ready to ship and the focus will be on promoting those! If we donβt get anything by tomorrow Iβm giving up on the notion of Anthology vinyls though π I want the Anthology vinyl. Lol but I don't think we are ever getting them. I think we have more luck at getting Midnights 3AM on vinyl at this point. Lol I think both of those will come someday. Whether it's in the next year, or whether five, ten, or more years down the line, I can't see her not releasing them. Seems unlike her lol |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 11, 2024 22:40:58 GMT -5
I wonder how it would work as far aa certifications go. If she releases a physical of the Anthology, I assume there wonβt be an issue of it counting toward the regular album as far as Billboard is concerned, since the digital version already has all 31 tracks. But what about the RIAA? A physical release of the Anthology would then be a double album, which counts as 2 units for certification purposes. I donβt know if the same applies to digital albums, plus where there are multiple variations of the album that has vastly different track listings and album lengths. I admit I havenβt kept up with how RIAA has treated albums since theyβve evolved so much in the streaming age. The only example I can think of where an album was available with somewhat vastly different tracklists across physical versions is The Fame/The Fame Monster, but I donβt remember reading about that being counted as a double album for the Monster version.
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Post by Mayman on Jul 11, 2024 23:40:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure how they will count a physical Anthology version within certifications. I think it would just be considered deluxe edition and not count double. A little off topic but I always see people on Twitter thinking that a double LP vinyl set means it's a double album, meaning it'll count as a double album for certifications. That's just not true whatsoever, a double album is any album that is 100 minutes or more on it's standard release. I might be wrong on this but I think RIAA only counts units of physical releases toward double album certifications. For example, Donda clocks in at almost 2 hours, but would only be certified as a double album if it sold 250k (Gold status for double albums) physical units. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain.
So hypothetically Fearless TV, Red TV, and Speak Now TV's physical editions should count double towards the album certification.
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magik
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Post by magik on Jul 12, 2024 0:10:28 GMT -5
TTPD feels like the most irrelevant "blockbuster" hit album of all time. Outside of "fortnight," has there been any mega hit from this album to warrant these weeks at #1? Even "fortnight" ran out of steam pretty fast.
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Post by Push The Button on Jul 12, 2024 0:29:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure how they will count a physical Anthology version within certifications. I think it would just be considered deluxe edition and not count double. A little off topic but I always see people on Twitter thinking that a double LP vinyl set means it's a double album, meaning it'll count as a double album for certifications. That's just not true whatsoever, a double album is any album that is 100 minutes or more on it's standard release. I might be wrong on this but I think RIAA only counts units of physical releases toward double album certifications. For example, Donda clocks in at almost 2 hours, but would only be certified as a double album if it sold 250k (Gold status for double albums) physical units. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain. So hypothetically Fearless TV, Red TV, and Speak Now TV's physical editions should count double towards the album certification. Lord I remember this discussion when Back to Basics was first announced. If she had just included a couple more tracks that could have been a 4x platinum album. |
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musiclife
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Post by musiclife on Jul 12, 2024 0:37:08 GMT -5
TTPD feels like the most irrelevant "blockbuster" hit album of all time. Outside of "fortnight," has there been any mega hit from this album to warrant these weeks at #1? Even "fortnight" ran out of steam pretty fast. I don't see how it's irrelevant? The song is still top 5 on pop, #1 for going on 12 weeks. Yet other artists who released this year are already on their way out of the top 50 or approaching leaving the outter limits of the top 50. It's a blockbuster album. |
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magik
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Post by magik on Jul 12, 2024 0:43:58 GMT -5
TTPD feels like the most irrelevant "blockbuster" hit album of all time. Outside of "fortnight," has there been any mega hit from this album to warrant these weeks at #1? Even "fortnight" ran out of steam pretty fast. I don't see how it's irrelevant? The song is still top 5 on pop, #1 for going on 12 weeks. Yet other artists who released this year are already on their way out or approaching leaving the top 50 albums. It's a blockbuster album. Compared to other blockbusters, including Taylor's very own, this album just doesn't feel like a blockbuster TO ME. I don't want to start a debate with Taylor supporters or chart watchers, but it seems that this album is being carried by various chart tactics to keep it at the top (as already mentioned), and not actual ubiquitous hits, such as 21, 1989, Confessions, Midnights, etc. |
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π Eloquent β’
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Post by π Eloquent β’ on Jul 12, 2024 4:29:40 GMT -5
I don't see how it's irrelevant? The song is still top 5 on pop, #1 for going on 12 weeks. Yet other artists who released this year are already on their way out or approaching leaving the top 50 albums. It's a blockbuster album. Compared to other blockbusters, including Taylor's very own, this album just doesn't feel like a blockbuster TO ME. I don't want to start a debate with Taylor supporters or chart watchers, but it seems that this album is being carried by various chart tactics to keep it at the top (as already mentioned), and not actual ubiquitous hits, such as 21, 1989, Confessions, Midnights, etc.Β TTPD would have spent 10 of its 12 weeks (save this week and Billie's debut) at #1 without these random variants. The album itself is the blockbuster (fastest album to hit 4 billion streams in history). I agree tho that albums/eras always "feel" bigger when paired with a row of hugely successful singles. Look at Teenage Dream. It's looked at as one of the most colossal-sized albums/eras because of its series of massively successful #1 singles, even though the album sold only a little over 3 million copies to date (not to say that's bad, just not necessarily equivalent to how big all the singles were). Or when you compare two albums like Norah Jones Come Away With Me and Britney Spears' Baby One More Time; both are diamond in sales, but BOMT felt bigger simply because it had more hits. |
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Post by οΌ³ο½ο½ο½ο½ο½ο½π€ο½ο½ on Jul 12, 2024 5:51:32 GMT -5
I mean, when you sell 4-5M in 3 months, that's a blockbuster 100%, but it does kinda feel like a non-event (among non-fans) due to the lack of hits. I agree with Eloqueenβ’, because most people associate albums with hit songs, and when basically the whole album is full of hits, like in Katy's TD case, you don't need to sell gazillion of copies to be called a classic or whatever.
Susan Boyle's album was the BB200 YE #1 album of 2010 and the best-selling album WW of 2009 in only a month or so, but it's not even close to TD's legacy.
Also, you can tell Taylor's focus isn't on singles or promo this era, if she wanted that, she wouldn't be on tour and the album would have fewer songs with much more hit/single potential.
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jul 12, 2024 6:49:23 GMT -5
I think billboard should add "2 versions max after first week" type of rule. easy and simple.
they're already doing that with fan pack bundle. (2 limit)
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