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Post by stormlover74 on Sept 17, 2024 18:30:32 GMT -5
I figured it was so obvious that her song was an answer to his that surely she acquired the rights
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 17, 2024 18:38:17 GMT -5
Do you need rights to write a response? I am not sure of the legalities there, but "Flowers" doesn't lift the melody or even any direct lyrics from Bruno, so what's the infringement?
It's not exactly the same, but Liz Phair's debut was a track-by-track response to a Rolling Stones album.
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Post by stormlover74 on Sept 17, 2024 20:09:48 GMT -5
Do you need rights to write a response? I am not sure of the legalities there, but "Flowers" doesn't lift the melody or even any direct lyrics from Bruno, so what's the infringement? It's not exactly the same, but Liz Phair's debut was a track-by-track response to a Rolling Stones album. I guess we'll find out. If anything it would just be the similarity between the melodies |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 17, 2024 22:40:10 GMT -5
US Spotify - 09/16/24
1(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Taste 2,244,706 (+231,061) (+11%)
2(+1) Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars - Die With A Smile 1,990,844 (+273,185) (+16%)
3(-1) Chappell Roan - Good Luck, Babe! 1,939,170 (+195,173) (+11%)
4(=) Billie Eilish - BIRDS OF A FEATHER 1,638,100 (+180,603) (+12%)
5(+2) Jimin - Who 1,497,166 (+158,739) (+12%)
6(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso 1,478,129 (+79,999)
7(+1) Sabrina Carpenter - Bed Chem 1,462,823 (+148,266) (+11%)
8(+1) Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please 1,397,829 (+92,098)
9(-4) Playboi Carti - ALL RED 1,379,220 (-41,865)
10(+2) Post Malone, Morgan Wallen - I Had Some Help 1,229,191 (+95,534)
Sabrina Carpenter - Short n' Sweet [11/12]
21(-1) Good Graces 860,541 (+68,357)
44(-2) Juno 644,453 (+62,641) (+11%)
56(-2) Coincidence 550,136 (+44,992)
61(+1) Sharpest Tool 520,573 (+49,567) (+11%)
85(+1) Slim Pickins 479,451 (+47,754) (+11%)
143(+6) Don't Smile 385,759 (+44,753) (+13%)
154(+2) Dumb & Poetic 374,431 (+37,534) (+11%)
Total Twenty-fifth Day Streams: 10,398,831 (+9.56%)
Others:
11(-1) Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) 1,221,040 (+20,380)
12(-1) Chappell Roan - HOT TO GO! 1,205,136 (+27,560)
13(=) Kendrick Lamar - Not Like Us 1,085,365 (+26,829)
14(=) Chappell Roan - Pink Pony Club 1,067,767 (+60,500)
15(+4) Gigi Perez - Sailor Song 989,975 (+193,892) (+24%)
16(=) Benson Boone - Beautiful Things 951,808 (+53,654)
18(=) Tate McRae - It's ok I'm ok 929,471 (+110,017) (+13%)
19(-4) Tommy Richman - MILLION DOLLAR BABY 917,764 (+19,286)
20(+5) Gracie Abrams - I Love You, I'm Sorry 909,344 (+148,025) (+19%)
22(-1) Teddy Swims - Lose Control 856,483 (+68,907)
23(-1) Zach Bryan - Pink Skies 852,951 (+82,708) (+11%)
25(-1) Hozier - Too Sweet 834,540 (+72,378)
26(+4) The Weeknd - Dancing in the Flames 826,905 (+135,353) (+20%)
28(+3) Zach Bryan - 28 785,683 (+109,481) (+16%)
29(-2) Luke Combs - Ain't No Love in Oklahoma 783,959 (+62,990)
30(-4) Chappell Roan - Red Wine Supernova 766,585 (+20,270)
31(+6) The Kid LAROI - NIGHTS LIKE THIS 754,178 (+128,490) (+21%)
32(-3) Charli XCX, Billie Eilish - Guess 740,821 (+45,879)
34(-1) Chappell Roan - Casual 723,541 (+78,014) (+12%)
36(+7) Billie Eilish - WILDFLOWER 688,789 (+116,929) (+20%)
37(+3) Morgan Wallen - Lies Lies Lies 688,754 (+82,139) (+14%)
38(-3) Zach Bryan - Heading South 684,342 (+42,902)
39(-3) Dasha - Austin 676,116 (+46,594)
40(-6) Hanumankind, Kalmi - Big Dawgs 674,433 (+29,796)
41(=) Benson Boone - Slow It Down 658,393 (+62,942) (+11%)
42(-3) Morgan Wallen, ERNEST - Cowgirls 657,969 (+49,490)
43(+3) Linkin Park - The Emptiness Machine 653,744 (+98,529) (+18%)
45(+2) Peso Pluma, Neton Vega - LA PATRULLA 638,675 (+94,129) (+17%) *NEW PEAK*
46(-2) Zach Bryan - Sun to Me 627,103 (+57,515) (+10%)
49(+1) Ritchy Mitch & The Coal Miners - Evergreen 611,846 (+78,582) (+15%)
50(-5) KAROL G - Si Antes Te Hubiera Conocido 607,804 (+43,126)
51(+6) Surf Curse - Disco 599,309 (+97,366) (+19%)
55(+3) Gunna - one of wun 557,957 (+63,419) (+13%)
58(+1) Megan Thee Stallion, RM - Neva Play 522,842 (+39,027)
64(-11) Charli XCX - Apple 517,957 (+11,938)
65(+8) Addison Rae - Diet Pepsi 517,069 (+65,553) (+15%) *NEW PEAK*
66(+9) TV Girl - Lovers Rock 516,164 (+70,613) (+16%)
68(-2) Myles Smith - Stargazing 512,024 (+45,341) (+10%)
69(+12) Linkin Park - Numb 509,989 (+72,276) (+17%)
73(-13) Chappell Roan - Femininomenon 500,363 (+18,048)
77(-8) Taylor Swift - I Can Do It With A Broken Heart 495,325 (+35,046)
79(-3) Luis R Conriquez, Vega - Si No Quieres No 488,818 (+43,294) (+10%)
83(-16) Charli XCX - 360 480,947 (+16,408)
84(+30) The Marías - No One Noticed 479,948 (+98,828) (+26%)
88(+14) Clairo - Juna 468,820 (+74,041) (+19%)
89(-15) Jordan Adetunji - KEHLANI 465,434 (+18,424)
90(+2) Tucker Wetmore - Wind Up Missin' You 464,512 (+45,115) (+11%)
92(+18) The Goo Goo Dolls - Iris 462,347 (+74,575) (+19%)
96(-7) Fuerza Regida - NEL 456,959 (+34,893)
100(+18) Billie Eilish - CHIHIRO 448,995 (+74,004) (+20%)
102(-12) Chappell Roan - My Kink is Karma 448,344 (+26,857)
104(+19) Tito Double P, Peso Pluma - DOS DÍAS 444,797 (+73,853) (+20%) *NEW PEAK*
105(+12) Gracie Abrams - Close to You 443,734 (+68,616) (+18%)
112(-4) Post Malone, Luke Combs - Guy For That 434,016 (+45,527) (+12%)
117(-33) GloRilla - TGIF 423,426 (-10,306)
125(+26) Drake - Circadian Rhythm 411,157 (+71,244) (+21%)
140(-39) Megan Thee Stallion, Yuki Chiba - Mamushi 388,994 (-6,450)
144(-6) Eminem - Houdini 382,716 (+24,718)
145(-38) *NSYNC - Bye Bye Bye -391,186 (-9,049)
147(+51) Linkin Park - One Step Closer 381,788 (+76,436) (+25%)
158(-6) Charli xcx, Troye Sivan - Talk talk 369,205 (+29,298
162(+30) Drake - No Face 367,414 (+58,183) (+19%)
164(-14) FloyyMenor, Cris Mj - Gata Only 366,937 (+26,311)
165(RE) Tito Double P - EL LOKERAN 366,145
173(-18) Josh Meloy - Porch Light 360,986 (+23,083)
178(-5) Don Toliver - TORE UP 357,682 (+39,089) (+12%)
179(+2) The Kid LAROI - BABY I'M BACK 356,807 (+42,012) (+13%)
180(-37) Odetari - KEEP UP 356,127 (+6,634)
181(-7) Koe Wetzel, Jessie Murph - High Road 355,861 (+40,051) (+13%)
182(DEBUT) Don Toliver - NEW DROP 353,677
184(-18) Zach Bryan - Nine Ball 352,129 (+26,172)
189(-12) Ken Carson - Yale 351,367 (+36,305) (+12%)
190(RE) Linkin Park - Faint 351,363
Total Streams for Chappell Roan - The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess [6/14]: 4,711,736
Biggest Gains (50K+): No Flockin, Exchange, misses, Good Days, No Face, Bad Habit, The Color Violet, You're Gonna Go Far, Broken Clocks, One Step Closer, Ivy, Cigarettes out the Window, Yellow, WAIT FOR U, White Ferrari, Circadian Rhythm, I Love You So, The Night We Met, Sunflower, Cigarette Daydreams, I Wanna Be Yours, Dark Red, One of the Girls, Type Shit, Work Song, Close to You, DOS DÍAS, Don't Stop Believin', CHIHIRO, Apocalypse, Iris, Juna, No One Noticed, LUNCH, Kill Bill, Thinkin Bout You, End of Beginning, Sure Thing, Don't, Numb, we can't be friends (wait for your love), Lovers Rock, Diet Pepsi, Pain, Shut up My Moms Calling, Thinkin' Bout Me, Scared to Start, one of wun, Like That, Pink + White, Disco, Evergreen, My Love Mine All Mine, 505, Sun to Me, LA PATRULLA, Juno, The Emptiness Machine, Cowgirls, Slow It Down, Lies Lies Lies, WILDFLOWER, Sweater Weather, Casual, See You Again, NIGHTS LIKE THIS, Ain't No Love in Oklahoma, 28, Something in the Orange, Dancing in the Flames, Too Sweet, Stick Season, Pink Skies, Lose Control, Good Graces, I Love You I'm Sorry, I'm ok It's ok, I Remember Everything, Beautiful Things, Sailor Song, Pink Pony Club, I Had Some Help, Please Please Please, Bed Chem, Espresso, Who, BIRDS OF A FEATHER, Good Luck Babe!, Die With A Smile, Taste
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dremolus - solarpunk
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𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 17, 2024 22:41:49 GMT -5
We can't let Shaboozey get to 14 weeks. Hopefully Drake puts out a banger in response to Lamar's "Not Like Us." Or maybe Morgan Wallen will stir it up. Yes we can |
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shakemaki
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Post by shakemaki on Sept 18, 2024 0:22:37 GMT -5
Here’s an even crazier tidbit about it: it’s likely going to be the second most successful country song in hot 100 history and it’s based around a sample of a somewhat forgotten 00s rap hit from 20 years ago that never reached #1. Tipsy is not even close to being somewhat forgotten, they still play that shit at the club. Now DJ's be mixing both tracks together. Well I guess it’s anecdotal, but I don’t know people familiar with it before this who aren’t around my age. Feels like a prime millennial thing. And even then, it’s like “oh yeah, that song!” ever since this came out. |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 18, 2024 0:55:15 GMT -5
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jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Sept 18, 2024 5:37:45 GMT -5
itunes update
16 +68 Miley Cyrus - Flowers
58 NEW Bruno Mars - When I Was Your Man
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 18, 2024 7:05:04 GMT -5
Do you need rights to write a response? I am not sure of the legalities there, but "Flowers" doesn't lift the melody or even any direct lyrics from Bruno, so what's the infringement? It's not exactly the same, but Liz Phair's debut was a track-by-track response to a Rolling Stones album.
So I work in the industry, and in the case of Flowers/When I Was Your Man, yes they would absolutely need to have acquired the rights. The melodies and lyrical nods between the two are so similar that it surely qualifies as at least a sample. Usually in this case, the publishers and songwriters of the original song (WIWYM) would be credited along with those for the new one (Flowers), but if you look at the publishing/songwriting credits for Flowers, strangely the credits for WIWYM aren't included (which always baffled me), so my guess is that there was some kind of a handshake deal/informal agreement between all parties involved before Flowers was released, and then there is this partial owner to the rights (Tempo Music) who isn't honoring that agreement, and deciding to go rogue with this lawsuit.
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Sept 18, 2024 8:02:46 GMT -5
Because none of them thought Flowers would be as big as it is/was. Time to cash in 🤑
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Post by After Minutes on Sept 18, 2024 8:37:51 GMT -5
Dancing In The Flames returns to the top 20 on the spotify chart. I can't really grasp what sort of run this song is having at this point
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GW
Charting
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Post by GW on Sept 18, 2024 9:22:36 GMT -5
Referencing lyrics or melody is not sampling. Sampling requires the inclusion of a part or parts of another actual recording in a new recording - even if it's chopped up, highly edited, etc.
Re-recording a vocal (even with verbatim lyrics) is not sampling. Nor is rewriting similar lyrics. Or biting the melody. These things aren't necessarily legal, and can infringe on copyright, but they're not considered sampling.
This situation would be considered interpolation at best. There's a very distinguishable difference between the two terms.
Songs can utilize both sampling and interpolation, but Flowers doesn't sample anything. Calling it an interpolation is even a stretch, in my opinion.
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Post by kcdawg13 on Sept 18, 2024 9:53:23 GMT -5
Dancing In The Flames returns to the top 20 on the spotify chart. I can't really grasp what sort of run this song is having at this point It's really a grower, and it has a lot of replay value. I'm probably biased because I'm a Weeknd fan but I wasn't really feeling this track for a couple days but now I'm into it and the chorus keeps bouncing around in my head.
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GW
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Post by GW on Sept 18, 2024 10:21:44 GMT -5
Dancing In The Flames returns to the top 20 on the spotify chart. I can't really grasp what sort of run this song is having at this point As a general observation - the haste with which many of us write off a song's potential success is obnoxious. If an A-lister's song doesn't smash on day one and stay there, it's done. No chance of bouncing back. Ever. it's almost like they... I don't know... just don't want certain artists to succeed. Men, especially. |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 18, 2024 10:25:47 GMT -5
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dremolus - solarpunk
Diamond Member
𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 18, 2024 11:44:22 GMT -5
Dancing In The Flames returns to the top 20 on the spotify chart. I can't really grasp what sort of run this song is having at this point As a general observation - the haste with which many of us write off a song's potential success is obnoxious. If an A-lister's song doesn't smash on day one and stay there, it's done. No chance of bouncing back. Ever. it's almost like they... I don't know... just don't want certain artists to succeed. Men, especially. Pulse? Being hasty?? because of their biases??  |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 18, 2024 12:53:04 GMT -5
kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates « 2024 » / « 09 » / « 18 »
1(=) Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) 93.56(-0.60)
2(=) Post Malone - I Had Some Help (feat. Morgan Wallen) 78.14(-0.39)
3(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso 68.63(+0.39)
4(=) Hozier - Too Sweet 64.24(+0.04)
5(=) Teddy Swims - Lose Control 59.25(-0.45)
6(=) Tommy Richman - MILLION DOLLAR BABY 56.38(-0.61)
7(+1) Kendrick Lamar - Not Like Us 54.58(+0.70)
8(-1) Billie Eilish - BIRDS OF A FEATHER 54.53(+0.51)
9(=) Chappell Roan - Good Luck, Babe! 53.67(-0.17)
10(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please 51.92(+0.08)
19(+1) Post Malone - Pour Me A Drink (feat. Blake Shelton) 34.52(+0.68)
29(+1) Jordan Adetunji - KEHLANI (REMIX) [feat. Kehlani] 25.61(+0.60)
55(+15) The Weeknd - Dancing In The Flames 16.04(+2.25) -(-) Tate McRae - It's ok I'm ok 4.78(+0.82)
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 18, 2024 13:24:19 GMT -5
Referencing lyrics or melody is not sampling. Sampling requires the inclusion of a part or parts of another actual recording in a new recording - even if it's chopped up, highly edited, etc. Re-recording a vocal (even with verbatim lyrics) is not sampling. Nor is rewriting similar lyrics. Or biting the melody. These things aren't necessarily legal, and can infringe on copyright, but they're not considered sampling. This situation would be considered interpolation at best. There's a very distinguishable difference between the two terms. Songs can utilize both sampling and interpolation, but Flowers doesn't sample anything. Calling it an interpolation is even a stretch, in my opinion.
But whether a sample or an interpolation, rights would still need to be acquired, but, there is a third term called a derivative work , in which recordings, music, or lyrics aren't copied or used exactly, but elements from a pre-existing composition are used in the new work. Flowers would most certainly qualify as at least a derivative work of When I Was Your Man. I mean, it's definitely unmistakable, the songs simply sound a lot like each other. Anyone who is just moderately familiar with both songs, and especially after being asked to pay attention closely to the lyrics, will tell you that.
I think the lawyers for Tempo Music say it best: "It is undeniable based on the combination and number of similarities between the two recordings that 'Flowers' would not exist without 'When I Was Your Man.' " .... "[Cyrus's song] duplicates numerous melodic, harmonic, and lyrical elements from Mars's song, including the melodic pitch design and sequence of the verse, the connecting bass line, certain bars of the chorus, certain theatrical music elements, lyric elements, and specific chord progressions.”
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Post by thegreatdivine on Sept 18, 2024 13:35:00 GMT -5
Dancing in the Flames is back in the top 20 on US Spotify but it's still below 900k daily streams. Meanwhile, on US Apple Music, it's now out of the top 30 and steadily dropping.
Hard to tell how the song will be performing weeks from now but it's not off to a great start at all, especially with it being a lead single with a heavy push promo-wise.
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shakemaki
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Post by shakemaki on Sept 18, 2024 14:17:27 GMT -5
I’m no expert at sampling or anything, but I always thought Flowers has pretty prominent melodic similarities to WIWYM. At first it’s mainly what I focused on when I heard it, but then as the song became such a juggernaut it found its own identity with me and I rarely thought of the WIWYM similarities anymore.
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GW
Charting
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Post by GW on Sept 18, 2024 16:42:18 GMT -5
Referencing lyrics or melody is not sampling. Sampling requires the inclusion of a part or parts of another actual recording in a new recording - even if it's chopped up, highly edited, etc. Re-recording a vocal (even with verbatim lyrics) is not sampling. Nor is rewriting similar lyrics. Or biting the melody. These things aren't necessarily legal, and can infringe on copyright, but they're not considered sampling. This situation would be considered interpolation at best. There's a very distinguishable difference between the two terms. Songs can utilize both sampling and interpolation, but Flowers doesn't sample anything. Calling it an interpolation is even a stretch, in my opinion.
But whether a sample or an interpolation, rights would still need to be acquired, but, there is a third term called a derivative work , in which recordings, music, or lyrics aren't copied or used exactly, but elements from a pre-existing composition are used in the new work. Flowers would most certainly qualify as at least a derivative work of When I Was Your Man. I mean, it's definitely unmistakable, the songs simply sound a lot like each other. Anyone who is just moderately familiar with both songs, and especially after being asked to pay attention closely to the lyrics, will tell you that.
I think the lawyers for Tempo Music say it best: "It is undeniable based on the combination and number of similarities between the two recordings that 'Flowers' would not exist without 'When I Was Your Man.' " .... "[Cyrus's song] duplicates numerous melodic, harmonic, and lyrical elements from Mars's song, including the melodic pitch design and sequence of the verse, the connecting bass line, certain bars of the chorus, certain theatrical music elements, lyric elements, and specific chord progressions.”
You stated "it surely qualifies as at least a sample." It's clearly doesn't. Obviously any of these things could be deemed infringement, as I stated. I think it's a risky and petty move on behalf of Tempo. Everyone wants a piece of a smash hit after giving it enough time to make shitloads of money first. If it tanked, they likely would not be doing this. |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Sept 18, 2024 17:05:34 GMT -5
Not y'all bringing out the Pulse shade with a minor recovery. The song is still doing bad. Bring out the Pulse hate when it's still pulling these numbers in a couple weeks and showing legs or something.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 18, 2024 18:18:44 GMT -5
Extract from:
The VMAs Bump: Chappell Roan, Benson Boone, ‘Fortnight’ & More of the Night’s Winners See Gains
As usual, the big wins from MTV’s 41st annual Video Music Awards on Wednesday (Sept. 11) came not only on stage, but also in the days that followed on DSPs and music retailers. A number of the reigning artists from last week — both in terms of moonpeople taken home and major performances delivered on stage — enjoyed strong gains in the consumption of their catalogs and hits following the awards show.
And as has often been the case so far in 2024, perhaps the biggest winner there was Chappell Roan. The rising alt-pop star took home the award for best new artist, and also had perhaps the most highly anticipated (and later-buzzed-about) performance of the night, playing breakout hit “Good Luck, Babe!” in medieval armor, flanked by an array of dancing swordsmen. Over the three days following the VMAs (Sept. 12-14), “Good Luck, Babe!” racked up 9.6 million official on-demand U.S. streams and 2,700 digital song sales — gains of 20% and 152%, respectively, from the three-day period prior to the VMAs (Sept. 8-10), according to Luminate — while her entire catalog combined for 41.6 million streams and 6,5000 sales over that same period, gains of 22% and 116%, respectively. (In an average week, songs will often stream better from Thursday to Saturday than from Sunday to Tuesday, though usually not to such a sizable degree.)
Chappell wasn’t the only winner-performer to see such gains: Benson Boone, whose glammed-out and acrobatic performance of “Beautiful Things” was one of the evening’s highlights, also saw a 20% streaming gain (to 6.9 million streams) for his now-signature hit over the same period, while also rising 210% in sales (to 3,800). Meanwhile, Karol G lost the only award she was nominated for on the evening, but her delightful, high-energy performance of current Billboard Hot 100 top 40 hit “Si Antes Te Hubiera Conocido” connected enough with viewers for it to see a 25% streaming bump over that period (to 5.7 million) while also rising 164% in sales (to over 800).
And of course, there was Taylor Swift — who did not perform on the evening, but did take the stage twice, to accept best collaboration and video of the year, along with Post Malone, for their Hot 100-topping team-up “Fortnight.” The evening’s big award winner was up 26% in streams over that period, to 3.6 million, while also rising 235% to over 700 in sales. – ANDREW UNTERBERGER
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 18, 2024 22:05:34 GMT -5
But whether a sample or an interpolation, rights would still need to be acquired, but, there is a third term called a derivative work , in which recordings, music, or lyrics aren't copied or used exactly, but elements from a pre-existing composition are used in the new work. Flowers would most certainly qualify as at least a derivative work of When I Was Your Man. I mean, it's definitely unmistakable, the songs simply sound a lot like each other. Anyone who is just moderately familiar with both songs, and especially after being asked to pay attention closely to the lyrics, will tell you that. I think the lawyers for Tempo Music say it best: "It is undeniable based on the combination and number of similarities between the two recordings that 'Flowers' would not exist without 'When I Was Your Man.' " .... "[Cyrus's song] duplicates numerous melodic, harmonic, and lyrical elements from Mars's song, including the melodic pitch design and sequence of the verse, the connecting bass line, certain bars of the chorus, certain theatrical music elements, lyric elements, and specific chord progressions.”
You stated "it surely qualifies as at least a sample." It's clearly doesn't. Obviously any of these things could be deemed infringement, as I stated. I think it's a risky and petty move on behalf of Tempo. Everyone wants a piece of a smash hit after giving it enough time to make shitloads of money first. If it tanked, they likely would not be doing this. So I was slightly mistaken and misused the term a bit, but I then later clarified. There's no need to go into this far-reaching indictment and get all hung up on the distinction between the terms, because the idea is all the same: whether a sample, interpolation, or derivative work (beyond just bearing vague resemblance), you have to get proper permission. Like I said, I work in the industry and have verified thousands of uses of these types of songs, so I kind of know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't read or compose music and still can't recognize the striking similarities between the two songs, well then sorry, I can't help you. Having said that, I think with most cases like this, there will be a settlement, or the songwriters and publishers of WIWYM will be given a share of the rights for Flowers. |
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Post by stormlover74 on Sept 18, 2024 22:51:30 GMT -5
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dremolus - solarpunk
Diamond Member
𝙁𝙧𝙤𝙢 𝙋𝙖𝙡𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙨, 𝙎𝙩𝙤𝙥 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐.𝙎. 𝙒𝙖𝙧 𝙈𝙖𝙘
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Posts: 13,321
My Reviews
Pronouns: (he/him/they)
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 19, 2024 1:08:18 GMT -5
US Spotify - 09/17/24
1(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Taste 2,214,346 (-30,360)
2(=) Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars - Die With A Smile 2,031,939 (+41,095)
3(=) Chappell Roan - Good Luck, Babe! 1,949,785 (+10,615)
4(=) Billie Eilish - BIRDS OF A FEATHER 1,674,259 (+36,159)
5(=) Jimin - Who 1,534,715 (+37,549)
6(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso 1,476,325 (-1,804)
7(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Bed Chem 1,474,812 (+11,989)
8(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please 1,383,948 (-13,881)
9(=) Playboi Carti - ALL RED 1,364,846 (-14,374)
10(=) Post Malone, Morgan Wallen - I Had Some Help 1,255,138 (+25,947)
Sabrina Carpenter - Short n' Sweet [11/12]
23(-2) Good Graces 859,846 (-695)
44(=) Juno 636,393 (-8,060)
57(-1) Coincidence 544,162 (-5,974)
65(-4) Sharpest Tool 516,749 (-3,824)
93(-8) Slim Pickins 471,283 (-8,168)
156(-13) Don't Smile 376,670 (-9,089)
159(-5) Dumb & Poetic 373,620 (-811)
Total Twenty-sixth Day Streams: 10,328,154 (-0.68%)
Others:
11(=) Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) 1,230,768 (+9,728)
12(=) Chappell Roan - HOT TO GO! 1,206,063 (+927)
13(=) Kendrick Lamar - Not Like Us 1,128,864 (+43,499)
14(=) Chappell Roan - Pink Pony Club 1,083,606 (+15,839)
15(=) Gigi Perez - Sailor Song 1,023,481 (+33,506)
16(=) Benson Boone - Beautiful Things 956,574 (+4,766)
17(+2) Tommy Richman - MILLION DOLLAR BABY 943,818 (+26,054)
19(+1) Gracie Abrams - I Love You, I'm Sorry 919,778 (+10,434)
20(+6) The Weeknd - Dancing in the Flames 879,337 (+52,432)
21(+1) Teddy Swims - Lose Control 876,934 (+20,451)
22(-4) Tate McRae - It's ok I'm ok 871,888 (-57,583)
25(=) Hozier - Too Sweet 846,014 (+11,474)
26(-3) Zach Bryan - Pink Skies 839,467 (-13,484)
27(+1) Zach Bryan - 28 800,437 (+14,754)
29(+1) Chappell Roan - Red Wine Supernova 781,909 (+15,324)
30(+1) The Kid LAROI - NIGHTS LIKE THIS 775,801 (+21,623)
31(-2) Luke Combs - Ain't No Love in Oklahoma 765,044 (-18,915)
33(-1) Charli XCX, Billie Eilish - Guess 737,160 (-3,661)
34(=) Chappell Roan - Casual 727,690 (+4,149)
36(=) Billie Eilish - WILDFLOWER 708,062 (+19,273)
37(=) Morgan Wallen - Lies Lies Lies 697,535 (+8,781)
38(+3) Benson Boone - Slow It Down 685,002 (+26,609)
39(-1) Zach Bryan - Heading South 679,616 (-4,726)
40(+2) Morgan Wallen, ERNEST - Cowgirls 673,706 (+15,737)
41(-2) Dasha - Austin 673,569 (-2,547)
42(-2) Hanumankind, Kalmi - Big Dawgs 672,849 (-1,584)
43(=) Linkin Park - The Emptiness Machine 659,034 (+5,290)
45(+1) Zach Bryan - Sun to Me 628,664 (+1,561)
47(-2) Peso Pluma, Neton Vega - LA PATRULLA 614,626 (-24,049)
48(+2) KAROL G - Si Antes Te Hubiera Conocido 609,551 (+1,747)
52(-1) Surf Curse - Disco 587,324 (-11,985)
53(-4) Ritchy Mitch & The Coal Miners - Evergreen 585,615 (-26,231)
55(=) Gunna - one of wun 557,597 (-360)
59(+11) Linkin Park - Numb 541,526 (+31,537)
62(+4) TV Girl - Lovers Rock 523,522 (+7,358)
63(+1) Charli XCX - Apple 523,097 (+5,140)
64(+4) Myles Smith - Stargazing 519,885 (+7,861)
67(-9) Megan Thee Stallion, RM - Neva Play 512,251 (-10,591)
70(-5) Addison Rae - Diet Pepsi 506,940 (-10,129)
74(-1) Chappell Roan - Femininomenon 500,350 (-13)
76(+1) Taylor Swift - I Can Do It With A Broken Heart 498,534 (+3,209)
77(+11) Clairo - Juna 496,960 (+28,140)
81(+3) The Marías - No One Noticed 493,775 (+13,827)
88(-9) Luis R Conriquez, Vega - Si No Quieres No 478,839 (-9,979)
89(-6) Charli XCX - 360 478,637 (-2,310)
90(=) Tucker Wetmore - Wind Up Missin' You 476,746 (+12,234)
91(+9) Billie Eilish - CHIHIRO 476,683 (+27,688)
94(-2) The Goo Goo Dolls - Iris 470,630 (+8,283)
95(+7) Chappell Roan - My Kink is Karma 461,023 (+12,679)
102(-13) Jordan Adetunji - KEHLANI 450,068 (-15,366)
104(=) Tito Double P, Peso Pluma - DOS DÍAS 448,124 (+3,327)
105(-9) Fuerza Regida - NEL 447,663 (-9,296)
109(-4) Gracie Abrams - Close to You 441,437 (-2,297)
110(+2) Post Malone, Luke Combs - Guy For That 441,108 (+7,092)
113(+4) GloRilla - TGIF 434,984 (+11,558)
125(=) Drake - Circadian Rhythm 418,442 (+7,285)
144(+3) Linkin Park - One Step Closer 391,988 (+10,200)
146(-2) Eminem - Houdini 388,517 (+5,801)
151(-6) *NSYNC - Bye Bye Bye 383,078 (-8,108)
152(-12) Megan Thee Stallion, Yuki Chiba - Mamushi 380,548 (-8,446)
160(+13) Josh Meloy - Porch Light 372,831 (+11,845)
161(-3) Charli xcx, Troye Sivan - Talk talk 372,239 (+3,034)
163(+1) FloyyMenor, Cris Mj - Gata Only 370,556 (+3,619)
164(+15) The Kid LAROI - BABY I'M BACK 369,971 (+13,164)
166(-4) Drake - No Face 367,990 (+576)
176(-11) Tito Double P - EL LOKERAN 363,119 (-3,026)
177(+5) Don Toliver - NEW DROP 362,772 (+9,095) *NEW PEAK*
178(=) Don Toliver - TORE UP 362,430 (+4,748)
182(-2) Odetari - KEEP UP 360,942 (+4,815)
184(-3) Koe Wetzel, Jessie Murph - High Road 358,836 (+2,975)
192(-2) Linkin Park - Fain (+2,323)
194(DEBUT) Mazzy Star - Fade Into You 353,463
199(-10) Ken Carson - Yale 349,878 (-1,489)
Total Streams for Chappell Roan - The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess [6/14]: 4,760,641
Biggest Gains (50K+): Dancing In The Flames
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Future Captain
4x Platinum Member
hi, i'm the visual representation of untreated mental illnesses
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 4,022
My Charts
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Post by Future Captain on Sept 19, 2024 4:04:27 GMT -5
Dancing in the Flames is used in a lot of Apple/iPhone promo these past few days. Dunno if its just Youtube ads, but that might be a reason why it bounces back well after the weak 2nd day. Do remember that people would have to listen to the ad and got interested in the song itself for it to translate to streaming boost, so it seems to be connecting
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fridayteenage
5x Platinum Member
Shake it Off
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 5,493
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Post by fridayteenage on Sept 19, 2024 8:41:22 GMT -5
Dancing in the Flames is used in a lot of Apple/iPhone promo these past few days. Dunno if its just Youtube ads, but that might be a reason why it bounces back well after the weak 2nd day. Do remember that people would have to listen to the ad and got interested in the song itself for it to translate to streaming boost, so it seems to be connecting #31 now |
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GW
Charting
Joined: April 2020
Posts: 490
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Post by GW on Sept 19, 2024 9:37:39 GMT -5
So I was slightly mistaken and misused the term a bit, but I then later clarified. There's no need to go into this far-reaching indictment and get all hung up on the distinction between the terms, because the idea is all the same: whether a sample, interpolation, or derivative work (beyond just bearing vague resemblance), you have to get proper permission. Like I said, I work in the industry and have verified thousands of uses of these types of songs, so I kind of know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't read or compose music and still can't recognize the striking similarities between the two songs, well then sorry, I can't help you. Having said that, I think with most cases like this, there will be a settlement, or the songwriters and publishers of WIWYM will be given a share of the rights for Flowers. You were not slightly mistaken. You were laughably wrong, and you prefaced it with a cringey "I work in the industry" implying that you know what you're talking about, while spreading misinformation that literally anyone would know by a quick definition search. And then you just doubled-down on "I work in the industry" as if that should lend you credibility after being wrong about something so fundamental. I think you'd see I the same way if you were anyone else reading your post. Also, I do have ears and I'm familiar with both songs. Flowers intentionally and blatantly riffs on WIWYM. I just think it's a petty money grab and I agree it will probably settle out of court, but if it does go to court I hope they lose. I think we're done here. I have to get back to my job in the industry. |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Sept 19, 2024 10:43:58 GMT -5
kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates « 2024 » / « 09 » / « 19 »
1(=) Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) 93.18(-0.38)
2(=) Post Malone - I Had Some Help (feat. Morgan Wallen) 77.81(-0.32)
3(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso 68.98(+0.35)
4(=) Hozier - Too Sweet 64.28(+0.04)
5(=) Teddy Swims - Lose Control 59.24(-0.01)
6(=) Tommy Richman - MILLION DOLLAR BABY 55.42(-0.96)
7(+1) Billie Eilish - BIRDS OF A FEATHER 55.09(+0.56)
8(-1) Kendrick Lamar - Not Like Us 54.96(+0.38)
9(=) Chappell Roan - Good Luck, Babe! 53.65(-0.02) -
10(=) Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please 51.81(-0.11) +
14(=) Luke Combs - Ain't No Love In Oklahoma 43.90(+0.66) 16(=) Jelly Roll - I Am Not Okay 37.87(+0.660 46(+9) The Weeknd - Dancing In The Flames 18.34(+2.30)
66(+6) Ella Langley & Riley Green - you look like you love me 14.30(+0.63)
-(-) Tobymac - Nothin' Sweeter 7.69(+0.66) -(-) Tate McRae - It's ok I'm ok 5.83(+1.04)
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